Post your secrets on how to pick up women if you got skills - GoFuckYourself.com

RogerV · 06-07-2006, 09:56 AM

What is your style? do you have a good pick up line or approach? etc.

Do you play a nice guy roll or a Badboy?? Some of us need tips help us out.

Dirty F · 06-07-2006, 09:58 AM

I give them my Brad Pitt look.

corvette · 06-07-2006, 09:58 AM

post your tips roger

Mr. Romance · 06-07-2006, 10:00 AM

simple....how much?

Mr. Romance

jacked · 06-07-2006, 10:00 AM

"nice shoes wanna fuck"

RogerV · 06-07-2006, 10:01 AM

if we are in a club I normally watch them for a while as guys get turned down to get an idea of what type of girl they are before I approach, then I try to get Eye contact to see if I even have a chance..
If she looks interested I move in and feel her out with some questions before I decide if I should be aggresive or not.

They hate to be Ignored so go up say hello and just kinda blow them off or walk away. you need to break them down before you build them back up.

media · 06-07-2006, 10:03 AM

Be married, and be nice to them, and eventually they'll want you so bad they can't stand it....

Amazing how chicks want what they can't have...

gimo33 · 06-07-2006, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Romance

simple....how much?

Mr. Romance

what he said

BluewireAngie · 06-07-2006, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RogerV

if we are in a club I normally watch them for a while as guys get turned down to get an idea of what type of girl they are before I approach, then I try to get Eye contact to see if I even have a chance..
If she looks interested I move in and feel her out with some questions before I decide if I should be aggresive or not.

They hate to be Ignored so go up say hello and just kinda blow them off or walk away. you need to break them down before you build them back up.

nice tactics!!!!

4Pics · 06-07-2006, 10:05 AM

google tom leykis

MR2 · 06-07-2006, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jacked

"nice shoes wanna fuck"

I love this one... gonna try it this weekend

RogerV · 06-07-2006, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RogerV

if we are in a club I normally watch them for a while as guys get turned down to get an idea of what type of girl they are before I approach, then I try to get Eye contact to see if I even have a chance..
If she looks interested I move in and feel her out with some questions before I decide if I should be aggresive or not.

They hate to be Ignored so go up say hello and just kinda blow them off or walk away. you need to break them down before you build them back up.

Sometimes I fake like I wiped something off their lip or fix their hair soon As I meet them which brings them off their High horse fast. Just to bring them down to your level.
It shows they are not perfect and you have a sensitive side without insulting them

Dirty F · 06-07-2006, 10:10 AM

I give them my George Clooney look.

06-07-2006, 10:10 AM

roger v is you want some good tips i have a great ebook i purchased for 70$ its by mystery, who suposably the best pick up artist in the world. contact me ill share
334233614

SirMoby · 06-07-2006, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RogerV

if we are in a club I normally watch them for a while as guys get turned down to get an idea of what type of girl they are before I approach, then I try to get Eye contact to see if I even have a chance..
If she looks interested I move in and feel her out with some questions before I decide if I should be aggresive or not.

They hate to be Ignored so go up say hello and just kinda blow them off or walk away. you need to break them down before you build them back up.

I see why you need pointers.

Never wait and play the creeping eye contact game. Get in the mood to have fun and learn about other people before you go out. If you wait more then 5 seconds then you're acting creepy.

Most women like guys that are confident but not conceded. Trying to make eye contact shows that you're not confident.

Besides, bars are the worst place to meet women of quality.

Tdog · 06-07-2006, 10:15 AM

We need the anal hobbet in on this one.

Gentle_Ben · 06-07-2006, 10:23 AM

Roger, check out the book called "The Game: Penetrating the secret society of Pickup Artists". It's by Neil Strauss, a great journalist who writes often in Rolling Stone Magazine.

The book is such a fun and easy read. He basically infiltrates this secret world of pickup artists and studies and learns and becomes a master pickup artist himself. so from a sociological perspective its really interesting. and from a pratical perspective, alot of tactics and routines, and ways of thinking and being really work like fucking crazy. if you delve further you'll find a whole underground society of these people. it gets a bit extreme, but if you can take some good techniques away, it really helps. It's all about the game, what you look like hardly matters.

xclusive · 06-07-2006, 10:28 AM

They used to come to me

RogerV10 · 06-07-2006, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RogerV

if we are in a club I normally watch them for a while as guys get turned down to get an idea of what type of girl they are before I approach, then I try to get Eye contact to see if I even have a chance..
If she looks interested I move in and feel her out with some questions before I decide if I should be aggresive or not.

They hate to be Ignored so go up say hello and just kinda blow them off or walk away. you need to break them down before you build them back up.

Do you approach with an oppener or do you you just stary with "Hi im Roger"

PaulB IYP · 06-07-2006, 10:40 AM

they pick me up

Gina · 06-07-2006, 10:58 AM

I use the same lines on them that men use on me, then I sit around all disappointed in women in general when those stupid lines work.

Axzar · 06-07-2006, 11:04 AM

This is no Bullshit, I used to SELL this pickup line on Ebay for $1.99!

The best way (WARNING, if you use this method, you could end up marrying the bitch!) is to say:

Hi, My name is (put your name here).

What's your name?

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha=
you'll need skills after that..but trust me, she will like you for your straight on approach to saying hi.

wdsguy · 06-07-2006, 11:06 AM

I usually just offer money or food stamps for sex.

RogerV · 06-07-2006, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirMoby

I see why you need pointers.

Never wait and play the creeping eye contact game. Get in the mood to have fun and learn about other people before you go out. If you wait more then 5 seconds then you're acting creepy.

Most women like guys that are confident but not conceded. Trying to make eye contact shows that you're not confident.

Besides, bars are the worst place to meet women of quality.

I make them wait for me.. I'm always the last guy to approach and I'm very Confident. I let them know I'm interested then I let all the guys hit on them and then I approach. It works for me but I always change up my game its never the same but I always break them down first no matter what..

you put the pussy on the pedastal and I knock if off..

RogerV · 06-07-2006, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RogerV10

Do you approach with an oppener or do you you just stary with "Hi im Roger"

Depends on the girl most of the time I just start with Hello and I tell them to smile.. to break the Ice

2HousePlague · 06-07-2006, 11:17 AM

Make eye contact with a woman after she's just been hit-on by an idiot. You can connect with her by laughing at the guy while he's walking away in flames and begin your "reltationship" with her on a sympathetic footing. A good opening line is "What a moron!"

2hp

Marshal · 06-07-2006, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RogerV

What is your style? do you have a good pick up line or approach? etc.

Do you play a nice guy roll or a Badboy?? Some of us need tips help us out.

interesting topic, but as far as i know this is webmaster board... :D

Murderous · 06-07-2006, 11:21 AM

Pick a girl you like and start chillin' with her friend, before long she will become jealous and practically beg to fuck you.

jimthefiend · 06-07-2006, 11:23 AM

Roofies man.

A-Bomb · 06-07-2006, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gentle_Ben

Roger, check out the book called "The Game: Penetrating the secret society of Pickup Artists". It's by Neil Strauss, a great journalist who writes often in Rolling Stone Magazine.

The book is such a fun and easy read. He basically infiltrates this secret world of pickup artists and studies and learns and becomes a master pickup artist himself. so from a sociological perspective its really interesting. and from a pratical perspective, alot of tactics and routines, and ways of thinking and being really work like fucking crazy. if you delve further you'll find a whole underground society of these people. it gets a bit extreme, but if you can take some good techniques away, it really helps. It's all about the game, what you look like hardly matters.

uhhhh... active member here. Devloping site and e-book combo. Will launch late summer when programming is complete

My #1 Tip : think of it from a sales and marketing point of view and treat the women as conversions. It will help you tremendously.

2HousePlague · 06-07-2006, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murderous

Pick a girl you like and start chillin' with her friend, before long she will become jealous and practically beg to fuck you.

This works REALLY well if there is a significant difference in attractiveness level between them. The hot one (which I will presume is the one you want) will see her entire esteem infrastructure jeopardized and will gratify you sexually until she feels secure again. Sometimes this can take months --

2hp

nico-t · 06-07-2006, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murderous

Pick a girl you like and start chillin' with her friend, before long she will become jealous and practically beg to fuck you.

now this is the best strategy so far

Vanilla DeVille · 06-07-2006, 11:28 AM

I have MAD skills... but I'll never tell...

jimthefiend · 06-07-2006, 11:28 AM

OR you can pretend you're a fag like Ramos does....

RogerV · 06-07-2006, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vanilla DeVille

I have MAD skills... but I'll never tell...

I dont believe you..

RogerV · 06-07-2006, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimthefiend

OR you can pretend you're a fag like Ramos does....

Women Like that Party vibe they all like to dance so they gay vibe is a good opener but you better know how to close the deal. Because women want to fuck a Badboy
the gay party vibe can lead to friendship fast so be careful

RogerV · 06-07-2006, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimthefiend

OR you can pretend you're a fag like Ramos does....

the best Wing man is a hot chick

RogerV · 06-07-2006, 03:51 PM

Damn no wonder everyone is here nobody has good pick up skills.. HAHAHAHA

Busty · 06-07-2006, 04:24 PM

Listen to all her hang ups and then tell her she is crazy they do not exist. Take the girls thats a 7, tell her how hot she is and you are stunned by her beauty.

Take the one who bites her nails, sign of insecurity, compliment her, tell her how enlightened you are by her conversation and her great she looks.

The one with small boobs, make fun of the big boob girls and tell them you think boobs are not that important anyways.

I stay away from bad skin, lots of make up, the heavy ones, and not much into the overly tattoed girls.

I always respect the fact that woman control the game, they decide if they are going to get laid before they leave the house, its just the guy that charms them the most that gets to play, or the guys with the great bodies that the not so hot ones know they can't have.

G

uptight · 06-07-2006, 04:32 PM

once this site helped me a lot, maybe it can help ya too: fastseduction.com

I'm a sig whore · 06-07-2006, 04:36 PM

grab them by the waist with both hands and lift in an upward motion.

jimthefiend · 06-07-2006, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RogerV

Women Like that Party vibe they all like to dance so they gay vibe is a good opener but you better know how to close the deal. Because women want to fuck a Badboy
the gay party vibe can lead to friendship fast so be careful

I'm WAY too fucking butch to even try that myself anyway. I make BadDog look like a twink.

I just play the Badboy thing.

Murderous · 06-07-2006, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RogerV

Women Like that Party vibe they all like to dance so they gay vibe is a good opener but you better know how to close the deal. Because women want to fuck a Badboy
the gay party vibe can lead to friendship fast so be careful

This is soooo true... I was gay for a day.

Barefootsies · 06-07-2006, 05:11 PM

Compliment their toes, then lick em.

baddog · 06-07-2006, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RogerV

the best Wing man is a hot chick

I have an old girlfriend that I take out for that purpose.

RogerV · 06-07-2006, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Busty

Listen to all her hang ups and then tell her she is crazy they do not exist. Take the girls thats a 7, tell her how hot she is and you are stunned by her beauty.

Take the one who bites her nails, sign of insecurity, compliment her, tell her how enlightened you are by her conversation and her great she looks.

The one with small boobs, make fun of the big boob girls and tell them you think boobs are not that important anyways.

I stay away from bad skin, lots of make up, the heavy ones, and not much into the overly tattoed girls.

I always respect the fact that woman control the game, they decide if they are going to get laid before they leave the house, its just the guy that charms them the most that gets to play, or the guys with the great bodies that the not so hot ones know they can't have.

G

Not bad go for the average girl and make fun of the hot ones.. HMM that might be a great last minute pick up end of the nite thing

Spunky · 06-07-2006, 05:56 PM

Whip out the wad and wipe my brow with it

SleazyDream · 06-07-2006, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirMoby

I see why you need pointers.

Never wait and play the creeping eye contact game. Get in the mood to have fun and learn about other people before you go out. If you wait more then 5 seconds then you're acting creepy.

Most women like guys that are confident but not conceded. Trying to make eye contact shows that you're not confident.

Besides, bars are the worst place to meet women of quality.

rogerV need pointers - dude you are on CRACK.

this man has more game than ANYONE I know - and I know a LOT of pickup artists, some of the best ones out there.

now here's the amazing thing - he HAS the bling, he has the money, he has the fame, he has the connections. no offense roger - but he's NOT in killer shape anymore - if you watch him - he doesn't use ANY of that to hit on women. RAW game - and this man is the KING of that, better than anyone I've ever known. If you're in the same room as him and he's hunting - shut up - listen and watch. you will learn something.

that all being said - he's also humble enough to listen to everyone else to see if there's anything else he can incorporate into his apporach.

Roger - what can I say - I'm impressed with your skills.

reynold · 06-07-2006, 06:16 PM

I just wear my tight-fit jeans with tshirt slightly above the bulge.

SleazyDream · 06-07-2006, 06:17 PM

ok, here are my skills.

the majority of women I end up fucking are from lavalife or myspace these days. What can i say - i'm a lazy guy. it's too fucking easy. seriously - it' is sooo fucking easy to get laid though them. Lavalife you chat on the phone - find out what you can - meet them for coffee at a neutral safe location and one out of 3 I end up boinking that night. 1 out of three is ugly and I pass and the other one of three requires 2-3 dates - if they're nice and hot I do it and boink them on date 2-3 - if there's something i don't like i pass.

now pick up wise raw in a bar or elsewhere - i believe it's all about first contact.
My thoughts are - you need to have eye contact first - a glance. there are no accidents - if you catch her looking at you - dno't look away - stare her down - if she looks down - go for it - if she looks up - forget her. one is a matting sign of submission - the other is blowing you off.

now no matter how hot someone is - everyone has things about them that they are insecure about. never think anyone is out of your league. hot girls hear that they are hot all the time - i like to be different so my opening line is looking for something about her - article of jewlry or clothing - shoes - etc - something that she thinks is special and the other dorks won't pick up on. - then I do like roger - try and break em down. pick something off their cloths - even if i palm it - like lint or fix their hair or something to show they arn't perfect. then loose interest. When i come back i look for opening signals. basically it's touch. I talk to them - show interest, and not just intellicually - but make it clear i'm attracted physically but i wait for them to touch me while showing interest. there are no accidents - REMEMBER THIS - if when flirting a woman touches you it's 70% closed. she just told you she wants you and maked her territory. it might only be a little brush up against you - a touch of her hand on you, but a touch - physical contact, means you're in. if after flirting for 20-30 mins and she makes no attempt at touch - i move on. - if touched i make it easier to touch me again and touch her - more and more till a kiss happens then it's roll with it and close the deal.

I find myself when i dont' fall back on money - travel adventures, cool friends, or physical attractiveness and rely on raw game I do much better.

i'm no genious - but those are my skills - what little there are of them. they've worked a lot - i do not bad for a fat guy.

06-07-2006, 09:58 AM	#3
corvette Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: scottsdale Posts: 7,880	post your tips roger __________________ If you need a good company for check writing services, then check out checkissuing, and for webhosting, check out Phoenix NAP

06-07-2006, 10:00 AM	#4
Mr. Romance The Face of Romance and the Symbol of Freedom Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: The America's Posts: 7,821	simple....how much? Mr. Romance __________________ Free Leads Program now paying up to $6 Gerard-Director of Global Sales Sign up Here: CamStarCash Check out: FreeCamStars ICQ: 330 662 299 gerard at freecamstars . com

06-07-2006, 10:00 AM	#5
jacked sperm tail Industry Role: Join Date: May 2004 Location: nj Posts: 11,019	"nice shoes wanna fuck" __________________ Got Cam Models? icq: 361-607-616

06-07-2006, 10:01 AM	#6
RogerV Banned! Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 12,591	if we are in a club I normally watch them for a while as guys get turned down to get an idea of what type of girl they are before I approach, then I try to get Eye contact to see if I even have a chance.. If she looks interested I move in and feel her out with some questions before I decide if I should be aggresive or not. They hate to be Ignored so go up say hello and just kinda blow them off or walk away. you need to break them down before you build them back up. Last edited by RogerV; 06-07-2006 at 10:03 AM..

06-07-2006, 10:03 AM	#7
media Confirmed Moneymaker Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Eugene, OR It's Like Jail, Only with Trees! Posts: 9,852	Be married, and be nice to them, and eventually they'll want you so bad they can't stand it.... Amazing how chicks want what they can't have... __________________ I'm here for the violence!

06-07-2006, 09:56 AM	#1
RogerV Banned! Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 12,591	Post your secrets on how to pick up women if you got skills What is your style? do you have a good pick up line or approach? etc. Do you play a nice guy roll or a Badboy?? Some of us need tips help us out.

06-07-2006, 09:58 AM	#2
Dirty F Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 59,204	I give them my Brad Pitt look.

06-07-2006, 10:05 AM	#10
4Pics Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 7,952	google tom leykis

06-07-2006, 10:10 AM	#13
Dirty F Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 59,204	I give them my George Clooney look.

06-07-2006, 10:10 AM	#14
Borka Guest Posts: n/a	roger v is you want some good tips i have a great ebook i purchased for 70$ its by mystery, who suposably the best pick up artist in the world. contact me ill share 334233614

06-07-2006, 10:15 AM	#16
Tdog Confirmed User Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 2,707	We need the anal hobbet in on this one.

06-07-2006, 10:23 AM	#17
Gentle_Ben Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Barcelona Posts: 733	Roger, check out the book called "The Game: Penetrating the secret society of Pickup Artists". It's by Neil Strauss, a great journalist who writes often in Rolling Stone Magazine. The book is such a fun and easy read. He basically infiltrates this secret world of pickup artists and studies and learns and becomes a master pickup artist himself. so from a sociological perspective its really interesting. and from a pratical perspective, alot of tactics and routines, and ways of thinking and being really work like fucking crazy. if you delve further you'll find a whole underground society of these people. it gets a bit extreme, but if you can take some good techniques away, it really helps. It's all about the game, what you look like hardly matters. __________________ ICQ ME: 203-810-401

06-07-2006, 10:28 AM	#18
xclusive Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Buffalo, NY Posts: 35,218	They used to come to me __________________ I support MediumPimpin.com / Shemp's Outlawtgp.com /

06-07-2006, 10:40 AM	#20
PaulB IYP Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: tdot Posts: 2,164	they pick me up __________________ paulb@itsyourporn icq 292627919

06-07-2006, 10:58 AM	#21
Gina Confirmed User Join Date: May 2005 Location: In the heart of Porn Valley Posts: 106	I use the same lines on them that men use on me, then I sit around all disappointed in women in general when those stupid lines work.

06-07-2006, 11:04 AM	#22
Axzar Random Jackass Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 1,837	This is no Bullshit, I used to SELL this pickup line on Ebay for $1.99! The best way (WARNING, if you use this method, you could end up marrying the bitch!) is to say: Hi, My name is (put your name here). What's your name? hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha= you'll need skills after that..but trust me, she will like you for your straight on approach to saying hi.

06-07-2006, 11:06 AM	#23
wdsguy Ryde or Die Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: California-Shanghai Posts: 19,568	I usually just offer money or food stamps for sex.

06-07-2006, 11:17 AM	#26
2HousePlague CURATOR Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: the attic Posts: 14,572	Make eye contact with a woman after she's just been hit-on by an idiot. You can connect with her by laughing at the guy while he's walking away in flames and begin your "reltationship" with her on a sympathetic footing. A good opening line is "What a moron!" 2hp __________________ tada!

06-07-2006, 11:21 AM	#28
Murderous Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 3,938	Pick a girl you like and start chillin' with her friend, before long she will become jealous and practically beg to fuck you.

06-07-2006, 11:23 AM	#29
jimthefiend So Fucking Banned Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: icq: 121189 Posts: 18,889	Roofies man.

06-07-2006, 11:28 AM	#33
Vanilla DeVille Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Scottsdale, Arizona! Posts: 8,097	I have MAD skills... but I'll never tell... __________________ Kisses, Vanilla DeVille SKYPE: vanilladeville DeVilleDigital Twitter

06-07-2006, 03:51 PM	#38
RogerV Banned! Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 12,591	Damn no wonder everyone is here nobody has good pick up skills.. HAHAHAHA

06-07-2006, 04:24 PM	#39
Busty Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: San Diego Posts: 802	Listen to all her hang ups and then tell her she is crazy they do not exist. Take the girls thats a 7, tell her how hot she is and you are stunned by her beauty. Take the one who bites her nails, sign of insecurity, compliment her, tell her how enlightened you are by her conversation and her great she looks. The one with small boobs, make fun of the big boob girls and tell them you think boobs are not that important anyways. I stay away from bad skin, lots of make up, the heavy ones, and not much into the overly tattoed girls. I always respect the fact that woman control the game, they decide if they are going to get laid before they leave the house, its just the guy that charms them the most that gets to play, or the guys with the great bodies that the not so hot ones know they can't have. G __________________ Busty Amateurs - the original girls and and tons more busty amateurs. Last edited by Busty; 06-07-2006 at 04:25 PM..

06-07-2006, 04:32 PM	#40
uptight Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 31	once this site helped me a lot, maybe it can help ya too: fastseduction.com

06-07-2006, 04:36 PM	#41
I'm a sig whore So Fucking Banned Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Daytona Fucking Beach Posts: 1,399	grab them by the waist with both hands and lift in an upward motion.

06-07-2006, 05:11 PM	#44
Barefootsies Choice is an Illusion Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Land of Obama Posts: 42,635	Compliment their toes, then lick em. __________________ Should You Email Your Members? Link1 \| Link2 \| Link3 Enough Said. "Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

06-07-2006, 05:56 PM	#47
Spunky I need a beer Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: ♠ Toiletville ♠ Posts: 133,947	Whip out the wad and wipe my brow with it __________________ *YOUR INFORMATION HERE*

06-07-2006, 06:16 PM	#49
reynold Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Global Traveler Posts: 51,271	I just wear my tight-fit jeans with tshirt slightly above the bulge.

06-07-2006, 06:17 PM	#50
SleazyDream I'm here for SPORT Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phone # (401) 285-0696 Posts: 41,470	ok, here are my skills. the majority of women I end up fucking are from lavalife or myspace these days. What can i say - i'm a lazy guy. it's too fucking easy. seriously - it' is sooo fucking easy to get laid though them. Lavalife you chat on the phone - find out what you can - meet them for coffee at a neutral safe location and one out of 3 I end up boinking that night. 1 out of three is ugly and I pass and the other one of three requires 2-3 dates - if they're nice and hot I do it and boink them on date 2-3 - if there's something i don't like i pass. now pick up wise raw in a bar or elsewhere - i believe it's all about first contact. My thoughts are - you need to have eye contact first - a glance. there are no accidents - if you catch her looking at you - dno't look away - stare her down - if she looks down - go for it - if she looks up - forget her. one is a matting sign of submission - the other is blowing you off. now no matter how hot someone is - everyone has things about them that they are insecure about. never think anyone is out of your league. hot girls hear that they are hot all the time - i like to be different so my opening line is looking for something about her - article of jewlry or clothing - shoes - etc - something that she thinks is special and the other dorks won't pick up on. - then I do like roger - try and break em down. pick something off their cloths - even if i palm it - like lint or fix their hair or something to show they arn't perfect. then loose interest. When i come back i look for opening signals. basically it's touch. I talk to them - show interest, and not just intellicually - but make it clear i'm attracted physically but i wait for them to touch me while showing interest. there are no accidents - REMEMBER THIS - if when flirting a woman touches you it's 70% closed. she just told you she wants you and maked her territory. it might only be a little brush up against you - a touch of her hand on you, but a touch - physical contact, means you're in. if after flirting for 20-30 mins and she makes no attempt at touch - i move on. - if touched i make it easier to touch me again and touch her - more and more till a kiss happens then it's roll with it and close the deal. I find myself when i dont' fall back on money - travel adventures, cool friends, or physical attractiveness and rely on raw game I do much better. i'm no genious - but those are my skills - what little there are of them. they've worked a lot - i do not bad for a fat guy. __________________ This dog, is dog, a dog, good dog, way dog, to dog, keep dog, an dog, idiot dog, busy dog, for dog, 20 dog, seconds dog! Now read without the word dog.