Why do hosting providers charge for IPs ? - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

JD · 06-02-2006, 07:53 PM

50 bucks for 50 IPs

mrkris · 06-02-2006, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimb

Also, I think that this discussion leads back to the way hosting companies are nowadays, and the way they treat their customers. I have actually given out less IPs because I give them away per ARIN justification. Why? Because I take the time to ask people, why do you need this IP? 9 times out of 10 the customer realizes that he doesn't need the IP, and when you realize the person does require it for a nameserver or something like that, then they rightfully deserve it.

Alot of hosting companies try and push the IP space as a neccessity because they make an additional $x per month off of it. Where as we at Tear2 have actually used far less IPs because we take the time to explain to our customers what IPs are and why they may or may not need them.

It all leads back to your customer support, and how far you are going to do to please a customer.

Jim

I honestly didn't even think of it like that, but it's a good point.

directfiesta · 06-02-2006, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrkris

I honestly didn't even think of it like that, but it's a good point.

That is exactly what most other said, including myself ...

I specified a dedicated box with 5 IP's :

- 2 name servers
- one main shared IP
- one for SSL
- a spare one for 2nd SSL or others...

Nobody invented the weel here ....

On the other hand, on a virtual account :

- mainstream, they don't ask for an IP so they are on a shared one ( up to 200 accounts )
- Adult, I can supply if required. On some occasions, when the client is " insisting" , I will throw it in

milan · 06-02-2006, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimb

Also, I think that this discussion leads back to the way hosting companies are nowadays, and the way they treat their customers. I have actually given out less IPs because I give them away per ARIN justification. Why? Because I take the time to ask people, why do you need this IP? 9 times out of 10 the customer realizes that he doesn't need the IP, and when you realize the person does require it for a nameserver or something like that, then they rightfully deserve it.

Alot of hosting companies try and push the IP space as a neccessity because they make an additional $x per month off of it. Where as we at Tear2 have actually used far less IPs because we take the time to explain to our customers what IPs are and why they may or may not need them.

It all leads back to your customer support, and how far you are going to do to please a customer.

Jim

It would be interesting to hear what do you answer someone that request 60 IP's for SEO?? or for per domain hosting?

This is NOT something justifiable under ARIN rules.

SMachiz · 06-02-2006, 08:13 PM

Additionally, and more to the point, the reason most hosting companies do this, is that a lot of people who want a lot of IPs, are just flat out spamming....

But of course, there is quite an administrative overhead - ARIN rules are VERY specific about what IPs can and can't be used for to be "justified" - and each IP has to be documented and valid when you go to ask for more, or they're going to tell you no.

ARIN is not a rubber stamping agency, they're incredibly picky and finicky - managing the allocations and making sure you're meeting ARIN's requirement is not a cost-free item.

Regards,
Sam

baddog · 06-02-2006, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimb

Alot of hosting companies try and push the IP space as a neccessity

While you may know hosting, you don't know SEO.

baddog · 06-02-2006, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by directfiesta

- mainstream, they don't ask for an IP so they are on a shared one ( up to 200 accounts )

Yeah, I was thinking about this very thing while I was in the shower. I wonder how many companies that are "giving away" IP's are giving shared IP's.

mrkris · 06-02-2006, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog

While you may know hosting, you don't know SEO.

I honestly don't think you do as well. You think because you have racks at a few varous hosting companies (OC3, etc), and can provide multiple Class-C's you know shit about SEO. I bet one ABP install and a newbie could outrank you.

Moose · 06-02-2006, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrkris

There is a difference between IP's and servers. You get IP's for free, you don't get servers for free.

Ip's are not free. Whoever told you that is lying to you.

mrkris · 06-02-2006, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog

Yeah, I was thinking about this very thing while I was in the shower. I wonder how many companies that are "giving away" IP's are giving shared IP's.

On virtual servers this is possible, but not on dedicated servers. Tear2 dedicated servers are awesome.

dissipate · 06-02-2006, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog

While you may know hosting, you don't know SEO.

If you knew a thing about SEO you wouldn't be on GFY spamming "seo hosting" - you'd be making real money. Theres a reason you're nothing more than a middle-man and hosting rep. Fucking asshat.

mrkris · 06-02-2006, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moose

Ip's are not free. Whoever told you that is lying to you.

There is an initial fee, yes, but that is similiar more towards management, not actually paying for IP's. Regardless, just what I have sent to Tear2 in terms of dedicated servers, in one year, pays for all their IP's with no problem. So nobody can honestly say it's not worth it.

baddog · 06-02-2006, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dissipate

If you knew a thing about SEO you wouldn't be on GFY spamming "seo hosting" - you'd be making real money. Theres a reason you're nothing more than a middle-man and hosting rep. Fucking asshat.

Go to Google and type in SEO Host or SEO hosting and click I am feeling lucky.

And as hard as it may be for you to grasp, I am the co-owner/founder of GWH. I am not a middle man or a rep. That would be you.

Moose · 06-02-2006, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrkris

There is an initial fee, yes, but that is similiar more towards management, not actually paying for IP's. Regardless, just what I have sent to Tear2 in terms of dedicated servers, in one year, pays for all their IP's with no problem. So nobody can honestly say it's not worth it.

only an initial fee huh? not actually paying for ip's?

You have no clue son.
Hate to break it to you, but paying $100 a month for a server does not make you a hosting guru.

beemk · 06-02-2006, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog

Go to Google and type in SEO Host or SEO hosting and click I am feeling lucky.

And as hard as it may be for you to grasp, I am the co-owner/founder of GWH. I am not a middle man or a rep. That would be you.

seo host = 0 searches
seo hosting = 97 searches a month

i wouldnt be bragging about that.

jimb · 06-02-2006, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog

While you may know hosting, you don't know SEO.

Please justify this statement, as I have no clue how you arrived at that conclusion. Or even why this statement was said.

Jim

dissipate · 06-02-2006, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog

And as hard as it may be for you to grasp, I am the co-owner/founder of GWH. I am not a middle man or a rep. That would be you.

Since when am I rep or middle man? I have ownership in every business venture I'm involved with, sorry to burst your bubble old man. It's not my fault you're a washed up biker with crooked yellow teeth who can't afford a trip to the dentist.

Screaming · 06-02-2006, 08:50 PM

I could give 2 shits about paying an extra buck a month or what not if the hosting is solid and the support is there.

jimb · 06-02-2006, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog

Go to Google and type in SEO Host or SEO hosting and click I am feeling lucky.

And as hard as it may be for you to grasp, I am the co-owner/founder of GWH. I am not a middle man or a rep. That would be you.

I love the fact that you go around exclaiming that your the #1 SEO Host. And then I love it even more that you deem others of having No Clue about SEO.

Something I have realized about you and your nickname on GFY is that you are all talk and no backing. Your a glorified sig whore.

Jim

jimb · 06-02-2006, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Screaming

I could give 2 shits about paying an extra buck a month or what not if the hosting is solid and the support is there.

Exactly, and if you need that extra IP wouldn't it be great if you didnt have to pay the extra dollar, or even be bothered by another invoice for $1.00? It just allows you to deal with your business and not have to worry about web hosting.

Jim

jimb · 06-02-2006, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog

And as hard as it may be for you to grasp, I am the co-owner/founder of GWH. I am not a middle man or a rep. That would be you.

BTW, straight from a co-owner: Nick (aka dissipate) has been with Tear2, LLC. from the beginning. Including Tear2Hosting and the upcoming Tear2Cash, so again, please do not make comments without previous knowledge.

Thanks!

Jim

mrkris · 06-02-2006, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moose

only an initial fee huh? not actually paying for ip's?

You have no clue son.
Hate to break it to you, but paying $100 a month for a server does not make you a hosting guru.

No, you're right, but when I talk directly to several owners of large hosting companies, that helped me with this very issue, i think I know quite a bit.

dissipate · 06-02-2006, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog

Go to Google and type in SEO Host or SEO hosting and click I am feeling lucky.

And as hard as it may be for you to grasp, I am the co-owner/founder of GWH. I am not a middle man or a rep. That would be you.

97 searches a month, congrats.

Would you like me to steal the #1 ranking for that keyword from you?

jimb · 06-02-2006, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dissipate

97 searches a month, congrats.

Would you like me to steal the #1 ranking for that keyword from you?

LOL!

I love that pic!

Jim

Moose · 06-02-2006, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrkris

No, you're right, but when I talk directly to several owners of large hosting companies, that helped me with this very issue, i think I know quite a bit.

Name names then...
No "large" hosting company is getting ip's for free.

That is of course if your definition of large is different than mine.

Phil21 · 06-02-2006, 09:16 PM

Haha.. another thread I shouldn't comment on.

Anyways, I'll try to stick to the facts.

#1. Hosting providers pay for IP's. This is a yearly maintenance fee (non-issue, $100), and an initial setup fee. ARIN's fee schedule is well known and published, so you can look this up yourself. The intial "setup fee" for a decent sized provider will be $4500, for up to a /16 of IP space (65534 IP's). However, due to the way ARIN allocates IP's you will typically be paying these initial setup fees as you grow, so it's somewhat more than what it looks like.

#2. Hosting providers pay for IP's in non-directly related expenses. This includes network complexity increases as space grows, creating coherent means to track IP allocations, and probably the most important - combining the above into reporting mechanisms in order to justify more IP space from ARIN (generally, for most providers, an extremely time consuming and annoying process). These costs vary from place to place of course, but I will make the leap of faith that no matter what provider - these costs far outweigh the relatively trivial ARIN expenses.

#3. More of a take on #2 - providers must make certain that they are allocating IP space per ARIN guidelines. Should they not, they will be unable to obtain further space. Since ARIN allocates space based on a 6 month usage projection, and assuming the provider is not gaming the system, this creates a HUGE problem and impedement to growth, moreso the smaller the provider (as 80% usage of a small number of IP's leaves FAR less space available during the application process than 80% usage of a huge number).

So.. providers SHOULD charge a small fee for space usage in on way or another. Some providers elect to charge per-IP (many in an effort to keep space use down, unrelated to "making bank" on said IP fees), and some simply build in cost in their product offerings for most average customers.

We (Reflected Networks) are somewhat the latter. IP's we see as a cost of doing business, and since our systems are fairly well integrated by now, as we've been around quite some time, they cost us much less in time and effort to keep track of. This translates into our policy of "free" IP's up to 256 for any dedicated customers, and after the initial /24 (256 IP's) we charge a $14.95/mo maintenance fee per /24 of usage. This policy generally means for 95% of our customer base IP's are provided at no extra charge. The other 5% generally are folks with /20 allocations or more.

Also, our policy of assigning IP's is that you can have one IP per site *if requested*. Currently, ARIN policy states that a domain name is ample justification for an IP's worth of usage - but you have to provide a reason why you're not using name based virtual hosting. Generally, obviously, this reason is almost always "SEO purposes". I could argue the merits of "multiple class C's!!!!!" being actually useful in SEO, but in our business the client is always right, and gets what they want

Should ARIN policy change, and they have made rumblings of revisiting this policy area, we will obviously have to follow it (as will every other host in America, should they want to have IP's down the road).

So in summary. Yes, your host has direct and indirect costs involved with giving you additional IP's. Yes, some hosts use this as a profit center, some hosts do not. No, it is not likely a "huge money grab", and generally is a way to attempt to keep IP demand down. As always, find the host that bets fits *YOUR* needs!

-Phil

BobG · 06-02-2006, 09:39 PM

congrats to the winners?

Snake Doctor · 06-02-2006, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrkris

Seriously, yes .. you pay a fee, understandable, but at $1 to $3 per ip a month, for those of us that need more IP's than bandwidth, we are getting raped. Anyone other than Tear2Hosting provide this? This is why many have lost my business, and a couple are about to lose it. Cheaper to get a nice dedicated from a company like Tear2 and get free IP's and not get gankged $60 a month in just IP fees ... blargh

Ok so what you're saying is that not only do you not want to pay for or create your own content.....you STEAL OTHER PEOPLE'S CONTENT (and then give them attitude when they call you on it)
You also need a unique IP address for each of the domains you publish your stolen content on and don't want to pay for the unique IP address either?

Maybe you'd like for the people you steal content from to pay your domain registration and bandwidth fees also so you can just pocket everything and not have any expenses?!?!??!

Lycanthrope · 06-02-2006, 10:05 PM

This thread is more amusing than the title might lead you think

mrkris · 06-02-2006, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lenny2

Ok so what you're saying is that not only do you not want to pay for or create your own content.....you STEAL OTHER PEOPLE'S CONTENT (and then give them attitude when they call you on it)
You also need a unique IP address for each of the domains you publish your stolen content on and don't want to pay for the unique IP address either?

Maybe you'd like for the people you steal content from to pay your domain registration and bandwidth fees also so you can just pocket everything and not have any expenses?!?!??!

Eh? Who are you and wtf are you talking about. Quit trolling in my thread thanks.

The Ghost · 06-02-2006, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lycanthrope

This thread is more amusing than the title might lead you think

I agree. It took a different thread to bring me back. Not saying it wasn't interesting before, but it took a whole new confrontational turn. Real shocker for that to happen on GFY

Damian_Maxcash · 06-02-2006, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lycanthrope

This thread is more amusing than the title might lead you think

lol - yes - I cant believe I just read 2 pages about possibly the world's most boring subject.

I did learn stuff though and that combined with the random bitching and drama made it worth while.

JD · 06-02-2006, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lenny2

Ok so what you're saying is that not only do you not want to pay for or create your own content.....you STEAL OTHER PEOPLE'S CONTENT (and then give them attitude when they call you on it)
You also need a unique IP address for each of the domains you publish your stolen content on and don't want to pay for the unique IP address either?

Maybe you'd like for the people you steal content from to pay your domain registration and bandwidth fees also so you can just pocket everything and not have any expenses?!?!??!

damn dude that was fucking random as shit. If you don't want people "stealing" you feed, don't publish your rss. it's as simple as that.

jimb · 06-02-2006, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lenny2

Ok so what you're saying is that not only do you not want to pay for or create your own content.....you STEAL OTHER PEOPLE'S CONTENT (and then give them attitude when they call you on it)
You also need a unique IP address for each of the domains you publish your stolen content on and don't want to pay for the unique IP address either?

Maybe you'd like for the people you steal content from to pay your domain registration and bandwidth fees also so you can just pocket everything and not have any expenses?!?!??!

oh dear, now I can safely say sig spot.

Jim

Damian_Maxcash · 06-02-2006, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPeRMiNaToR

damn dude that was fucking random as shit. If you don't want people "stealing" you feed, don't publish your rss. it's as simple as that.

Is he seriously publishing a full RSS feed and then bitching because people are using it?

Thats really strange behavior

Lenny - stick a few ads in the feed (you dont have to show the ads on the site, just in the feed) or dont publish a full feed at all.

The Ghost · 06-02-2006, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by damian2001

lol - yes - I cant believe I just read 2 pages about possibly the world's most boring subject.

I did learn stuff though and that combined with the random bitching and drama made it worth while.

mrkris · 06-02-2006, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by damian2001

Is he seriously publishing a full RSS feed and then bitching because people are using it?

Thats really strange behavior

Lenny - stick a few ads in the feed (you dont have to show the ads on the site, just in the feed) or dont publish a full feed at all.

I used his feed on a TEST SITE, working on some issues with ABP, he was a dick about it, so i was a dick back. I atleast told him how to prevent it, but he's a crybaby, so let him cry.

JD · 06-02-2006, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by damian2001

Is he seriously publishing a full RSS feed and then bitching because people are using it?

Thats really strange behavior

Lenny - stick a few ads in the feed (you dont have to show the ads on the site, just in the feed) or dont publish a full feed at all.

as far as I know, it was for testing a new feature of autoblogger and Lenny2 got his panties all bunched up.

Los · 06-02-2006, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil21

Haha.. another thread I shouldn't comment on.

Anyways, I'll try to stick to the facts.

#1. Hosting providers pay for IP's. This is a yearly maintenance fee (non-issue, $100), and an initial setup fee. ARIN's fee schedule is well known and published, so you can look this up yourself. The intial "setup fee" for a decent sized provider will be $4500, for up to a /16 of IP space (65534 IP's). However, due to the way ARIN allocates IP's you will typically be paying these initial setup fees as you grow, so it's somewhat more than what it looks like.

#2. Hosting providers pay for IP's in non-directly related expenses. This includes network complexity increases as space grows, creating coherent means to track IP allocations, and probably the most important - combining the above into reporting mechanisms in order to justify more IP space from ARIN (generally, for most providers, an extremely time consuming and annoying process). These costs vary from place to place of course, but I will make the leap of faith that no matter what provider - these costs far outweigh the relatively trivial ARIN expenses.

#3. More of a take on #2 - providers must make certain that they are allocating IP space per ARIN guidelines. Should they not, they will be unable to obtain further space. Since ARIN allocates space based on a 6 month usage projection, and assuming the provider is not gaming the system, this creates a HUGE problem and impedement to growth, moreso the smaller the provider (as 80% usage of a small number of IP's leaves FAR less space available during the application process than 80% usage of a huge number).

So.. providers SHOULD charge a small fee for space usage in on way or another. Some providers elect to charge per-IP (many in an effort to keep space use down, unrelated to "making bank" on said IP fees), and some simply build in cost in their product offerings for most average customers.

We (Reflected Networks) are somewhat the latter. IP's we see as a cost of doing business, and since our systems are fairly well integrated by now, as we've been around quite some time, they cost us much less in time and effort to keep track of. This translates into our policy of "free" IP's up to 256 for any dedicated customers, and after the initial /24 (256 IP's) we charge a $14.95/mo maintenance fee per /24 of usage. This policy generally means for 95% of our customer base IP's are provided at no extra charge. The other 5% generally are folks with /20 allocations or more.

Also, our policy of assigning IP's is that you can have one IP per site *if requested*. Currently, ARIN policy states that a domain name is ample justification for an IP's worth of usage - but you have to provide a reason why you're not using name based virtual hosting. Generally, obviously, this reason is almost always "SEO purposes". I could argue the merits of "multiple class C's!!!!!" being actually useful in SEO, but in our business the client is always right, and gets what they want

Should ARIN policy change, and they have made rumblings of revisiting this policy area, we will obviously have to follow it (as will every other host in America, should they want to have IP's down the road).

So in summary. Yes, your host has direct and indirect costs involved with giving you additional IP's. Yes, some hosts use this as a profit center, some hosts do not. No, it is not likely a "huge money grab", and generally is a way to attempt to keep IP demand down. As always, find the host that bets fits *YOUR* needs!

-Phil

well said

mrkris · 06-02-2006, 11:23 PM

regardless, bump for Tear2Hosting.com and the free IP's and awesome dedicated servers, they have my business and several of my friends. congrats :D

Snake Doctor · 06-03-2006, 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPeRMiNaToR

damn dude that was fucking random as shit. If you don't want people "stealing" you feed, don't publish your rss. it's as simple as that.

It's one thing to "syndicate" a feed which is how things are supposed to work.

It's another to use ABP's rewriter to change all of the sponsor links in the posts to his own and not even put a link to my site anywhere on the blog you're using my feed on.

That's just plain theft.

SplitInfinity · 06-03-2006, 09:03 AM

Phil21 said it right. :-)

Sly, Moose = right.

To me this appeared to be a "hey jimb, watch me get you some biznass, I'll post about something you prostitute. We'll pimp your ip's bro, watch it happen. Here goes the post, be ready to jump in and reply."

Fact is, there is a cost for ip's in both managing them and providing them.

In some cases, its only right to charge for ip's, in other cases, we may eat the cost because of the business potential of the customer.

MSV · 06-03-2006, 09:34 AM

SinisterStudios · 06-03-2006, 09:43 AM

Why would anyone cry over $20 a month extra for ip's, i guess its ok for you to make profit but not the hosting company, the lifeline of your company. I guess our time to aquire these ip's, allocate them, and manage them is not worth anything.

Im sorry but do any of you guys have a clue how much work is involved with getting ip blocks from arin????? I have spend the last week and a half going back and forth with them, making multiple network diagrams of our entire network, and spending countless hours to get ip's to give away for free to everyone who asks for them.

Snake Doctor · 06-03-2006, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrkris

I used his feed on a TEST SITE, working on some issues with ABP, he was a dick about it, so i was a dick back. I atleast told him how to prevent it, but he's a crybaby, so let him cry.

OIC...so you were testing out how to use software to hijack someone's feed, overwrite their sponsor codes, and not even give a link to the site you stole it from....and once you perfect it you can sell this software to a bunch of people so they can steal our shit too?

Gee that makes me feel much better.

Moose · 06-03-2006, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SinisterStudios

Why would anyone cry over $20 a month extra for ip's, i guess its ok for you to make profit but not the hosting company, the lifeline of your company. I guess our time to aquire these ip's, allocate them, and manage them is not worth anything.

Im sorry but do any of you guys have a clue how much work is involved with getting ip blocks from arin????? I have spend the last week and a half going back and forth with them, making multiple network diagrams of our entire network, and spending countless hours to get ip's to give away for free to everyone who asks for them.

Its easier to buy a house than it is to get Ip's from ARIN.
But the kids at tear2 do not know this as they are resellers and never have had to deal with ARIN, and willing to bet they have never even seen a 1u server in real life.
This thread was a spam attempt gone bad for them.

directfiesta · 06-03-2006, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moose

This thread was a spam attempt gone bad for them.

You just summarized this thread

mrkris · 06-03-2006, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lenny2

OIC...so you were testing out how to use software to hijack someone's feed, overwrite their sponsor codes, and not even give a link to the site you stole it from....and once you perfect it you can sell this software to a bunch of people so they can steal our shit too?

Gee that makes me feel much better.

You're a complete idiot. You make assumptions without even knowing what was going on. I told you I was testing stuff out, working on a way to give control of the content to ABP users but prohibit them from rewriting codes, which if you look through past ABP related threads, we have still been talking about doing. Nice job at making yourself look like an ass.

mrkris · 06-03-2006, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SinisterStudios

Why would anyone cry over $20 a month extra for ip's, i guess its ok for you to make profit but not the hosting company, the lifeline of your company. I guess our time to aquire these ip's, allocate them, and manage them is not worth anything.

Im sorry but do any of you guys have a clue how much work is involved with getting ip blocks from arin????? I have spend the last week and a half going back and forth with them, making multiple network diagrams of our entire network, and spending countless hours to get ip's to give away for free to everyone who asks for them.

take into account that some of us run more than 20 domains. if you had the option to host 400+ sites at one location, would you be willing to pay $400/month for IP's if you didn't have to? If you say you wouldn't mind, you're a lieing sack of shit.

Snake Doctor · 06-03-2006, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrkris

You're a complete idiot. You make assumptions without even knowing what was going on. I told you I was testing stuff out, working on a way to give control of the content to ABP users but prohibit them from rewriting codes, which if you look through past ABP related threads, we have still been talking about doing. Nice job at making yourself look like an ass.

So in order to give people control of content without being able to rewrite the sponsor codes you had to rewrite my sponsor codes to your sponsor codes?
Yeah that makes perfect sense.

And if it was all just for "testing purposes" why did I find the blog listed on hahahahahahahahahaha? Were you just "testing" wordpress's built in pinging feature also to make sure it still worked?

You're totally delusional if you think that calling you out for stealing makes me look like an ass.

06-02-2006, 08:13 PM	#55
SMachiz Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 105	Additionally, and more to the point, the reason most hosting companies do this, is that a lot of people who want a lot of IPs, are just flat out spamming.... But of course, there is quite an administrative overhead - ARIN rules are VERY specific about what IPs can and can't be used for to be "justified" - and each IP has to be documented and valid when you go to ask for more, or they're going to tell you no. ARIN is not a rubber stamping agency, they're incredibly picky and finicky - managing the allocations and making sure you're meeting ARIN's requirement is not a cost-free item. Regards, Sam __________________ Sam Machiz - V.P. Sales and Marketing - smachiz[at]voxel.net - Phone: 212-812-4194 Voxel dot Net http://www.voxel.net Offering High Bandwidth Managed Solutions and a Content Delivery Network Last edited by SMachiz; 06-02-2006 at 08:15 PM..

06-02-2006, 08:50 PM	#68
Screaming I can change this!!!!! Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 18,972	I could give 2 shits about paying an extra buck a month or what not if the hosting is solid and the support is there. __________________

06-02-2006, 09:16 PM	#76
Phil21 Confirmed User Join Date: May 2001 Location: ICQ: 25285313 Posts: 993	Haha.. another thread I shouldn't comment on. Anyways, I'll try to stick to the facts. #1. Hosting providers pay for IP's. This is a yearly maintenance fee (non-issue, $100), and an initial setup fee. ARIN's fee schedule is well known and published, so you can look this up yourself. The intial "setup fee" for a decent sized provider will be $4500, for up to a /16 of IP space (65534 IP's). However, due to the way ARIN allocates IP's you will typically be paying these initial setup fees as you grow, so it's somewhat more than what it looks like. #2. Hosting providers pay for IP's in non-directly related expenses. This includes network complexity increases as space grows, creating coherent means to track IP allocations, and probably the most important - combining the above into reporting mechanisms in order to justify more IP space from ARIN (generally, for most providers, an extremely time consuming and annoying process). These costs vary from place to place of course, but I will make the leap of faith that no matter what provider - these costs far outweigh the relatively trivial ARIN expenses. #3. More of a take on #2 - providers must make certain that they are allocating IP space per ARIN guidelines. Should they not, they will be unable to obtain further space. Since ARIN allocates space based on a 6 month usage projection, and assuming the provider is not gaming the system, this creates a HUGE problem and impedement to growth, moreso the smaller the provider (as 80% usage of a small number of IP's leaves FAR less space available during the application process than 80% usage of a huge number). So.. providers SHOULD charge a small fee for space usage in on way or another. Some providers elect to charge per-IP (many in an effort to keep space use down, unrelated to "making bank" on said IP fees), and some simply build in cost in their product offerings for most average customers. We (Reflected Networks) are somewhat the latter. IP's we see as a cost of doing business, and since our systems are fairly well integrated by now, as we've been around quite some time, they cost us much less in time and effort to keep track of. This translates into our policy of "free" IP's up to 256 for any dedicated customers, and after the initial /24 (256 IP's) we charge a $14.95/mo maintenance fee per /24 of usage. This policy generally means for 95% of our customer base IP's are provided at no extra charge. The other 5% generally are folks with /20 allocations or more. Also, our policy of assigning IP's is that you can have one IP per site if requested. Currently, ARIN policy states that a domain name is ample justification for an IP's worth of usage - but you have to provide a reason why you're not using name based virtual hosting. Generally, obviously, this reason is almost always "SEO purposes". I could argue the merits of "multiple class C's!!!!!" being actually useful in SEO, but in our business the client is always right, and gets what they want Should ARIN policy change, and they have made rumblings of revisiting this policy area, we will obviously have to follow it (as will every other host in America, should they want to have IP's down the road). So in summary. Yes, your host has direct and indirect costs involved with giving you additional IP's. Yes, some hosts use this as a profit center, some hosts do not. No, it is not likely a "huge money grab", and generally is a way to attempt to keep IP demand down. As always, find the host that bets fits YOUR needs! -Phil __________________ Quality affordable hosting. Last edited by Phil21; 06-02-2006 at 09:19 PM..

06-02-2006, 10:05 PM	#79
Lycanthrope Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 4,517	This thread is more amusing than the title might lead you think __________________

06-02-2006, 11:23 PM	#90
mrkris Confirmed User Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 2,737	regardless, bump for Tear2Hosting.com and the free IP's and awesome dedicated servers, they have my business and several of my friends. congrats :D __________________ PHP-MySQL-Rails \| ICQ: 342500546

06-02-2006, 07:53 PM	#51
JD Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 22,651	50 bucks for 50 IPs

06-02-2006, 09:39 PM	#77
BobG Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: San Diego Posts: 4,274	congrats to the winners?

06-03-2006, 09:03 AM	#92
SplitInfinity Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 3,047	Phil21 said it right. :-) Sly, Moose = right. To me this appeared to be a "hey jimb, watch me get you some biznass, I'll post about something you prostitute. We'll pimp your ip's bro, watch it happen. Here goes the post, be ready to jump in and reply." Fact is, there is a cost for ip's in both managing them and providing them. In some cases, its only right to charge for ip's, in other cases, we may eat the cost because of the business potential of the customer. Last edited by SplitInfinity; 06-03-2006 at 09:05 AM..

06-03-2006, 09:34 AM	#93
MSV Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 449

06-03-2006, 09:43 AM	#94
SinisterStudios Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: New Joisey Posts: 3,087	Why would anyone cry over $20 a month extra for ip's, i guess its ok for you to make profit but not the hosting company, the lifeline of your company. I guess our time to aquire these ip's, allocate them, and manage them is not worth anything. Im sorry but do any of you guys have a clue how much work is involved with getting ip blocks from arin????? I have spend the last week and a half going back and forth with them, making multiple network diagrams of our entire network, and spending countless hours to get ip's to give away for free to everyone who asks for them. __________________ SEOIP.com Multiple IP Webhosting Shared and Dedicated IP's - Multiple Class A's - From $1.99/ip