To those that have been in this business full time for more than 3 years

[Jace]

Has anyone noticed a slow decline of ratios over the past 3-4 years?

I started promoting other program in the search engines, and while you only got 100-200 uniques a day to your SE pages you were ecstatic because most sponsors converted 1:20 off ANY search engine traffic...hell, I remember when I put my first SE page up for TCG and got a sale after the first 20 clicks thrugh to the site.

it just isn't that way anymore....I am doing almost the same things I was doing back then, getting more traffic than before, and my ratios are 1:500 and shit, off of search engine traffic....it irritates me, because I was never one to have massive amounts of traffic, I just always had GOOD traffic....now I feel like I have to work my little ass off to get 1000-2000 SE hits a day to my shit to even make 2 sales.

I remember when people were happy with 1:1000 ratios on a TGP (which I thought was inssane at the time), now they are bragging about 1:1750 and shit, and that is just insane to think about....hell, I have seen some people talking about 1:2500 and shit like it is normal

[tony286]

yep things have changed more people more competition,more free stuff ,etc

[aico]

Originally Posted by tony404

yep things have changed more people more competition,more free stuff ,etc

What he said. Plus all these stupid girls with their stupid webcams making their stupid profiles on Xanga and the likes.

[Yngwie]

things are very different now that's for sure. Sales used to be much easier to make.

[Yngwie]

Originally Posted by tony404

yep things have changed more people more competition,more free stuff ,etc

that couldn't be any more true.

[Melody]

I've been in the business full-time for eight years and sure, processing has taken a big hit due to Visa regulations and myriad other things. I used to do 1/50 on AVS. I now do 1/200. But traffic in general (though not SE traffic) is a lot easier to come by these days than it was back then (this whole realm of buying partnerships at TGP seems wonderful to me, when we used to live and die by some TGP webmaster being in a good mood). And whereas I paid $2500 a month for my hosting at its peak, I now pay $150 for a similar set-up.

Also, when I first marketed Max Cash, they had two sites. ARS had four (all gay). There are a lot more programs to niche market.

I'm hearing a lot of old-timers (who pick their sponsors right) doing 1/500 and 1/700 for TGP traffic. I did 1/900 back in 1997 just on bulk crap traffic and still made $200 a day.

[iTEAM]

Originally Posted by tony404

yep things have changed more people more competition,more free stuff ,etc

Bingo! In any business.

[WiredGuy]

Yes, I remember when getting 1:20 was typical for SE traffic. Those days are long gone... While things were declining, I noticed since Q4 of 2005, things have been really sluggish, and across all sponsors.
WG

[FreeHugeMovies]

Maybe they are all scared of cross sales? =]

[Jace]

Originally Posted by WiredGuy

Yes, I remember when getting 1:20 was typical for SE traffic. Those days are long gone... While things were declining, I noticed since Q4 of 2005, things have been really sluggish, and across all sponsors.
WG

no shit man...when I used to work and get one site done really nice to sell shit, now I have to get 20 sites kind of nice to sell half of what I used to

you are right though, this past 4-5 months or so have been way down for every sponsor

[Jace]

Originally Posted by FreeHugeMovies

Maybe they are all scared of cross sales? =]

I don't think any sponsor I promote uses cross sales ;)

well, i think one does, and it is very noticeable on the page

[clickhappy]

Originally Posted by Jace

Has anyone noticed a slow decline of ratios over the past 3-4 years?

yup!
3 years ago I used to make $6k a month easily, and its slowly gone down a hundred or so a month.
This month was my first where I made just under $3k.

I had a sponsor who I sold 180 sales a month and would do it month after month. It was so easy and I barely lifted a finger.
Now I cant sell 2 memberships a month to them, and theyre a big site loaded with content.
And Ive found a few other webmasters using my text and words to promote them, it really fucking sucks.

The writing is on the wall and Ill be getting a job soon, but the porn money is a GREAT side income and it lets me be picky about the going into a field I want with a job I want, instead of taking a job I hate.

[WiredGuy]

Originally Posted by Jace

no shit man...when I used to work and get one site done really nice to sell shit, now I have to get 20 sites kind of nice to sell half of what I used to

you are right though, this past 4-5 months or so have been way down for every sponsor

I'm inclined to believe its a processor issue or something even deeper (ie: toolbar hijacking join pages).
WG

[tony286]

Originally Posted by Jace

no shit man...when I used to work and get one site done really nice to sell shit, now I have to get 20 sites kind of nice to sell half of what I used to

you are right though, this past 4-5 months or so have been way down for every sponsor

I think also gas prices have hurt us also. Between filling up the car to go work and jerkingoff to a paysite. The paysite loses.

[Melody]

Since I've been in the business everyone has sworn that (1) lately ratios really suck and (2) the business is getting worse. My experience is it all balances out. Just

[Dirty Dane]

who cares about worse ratios (can be explained) when sales are rising

[Peaches]

Why do you think I'm going back to school to learn something different? ;)

[Furious_Male]

I remember the 1:10 days with Sexkey waaay back. Good times.

[tony286]

Originally Posted by Peaches

Why do you think I'm going back to school to learn something different? ;)

you were always a smart lady

[BlingDaddy]

Originally Posted by WiredGuy

I'm inclined to believe its a processor issue or something even deeper (ie: toolbar hijacking join pages).
WG

We should talk more about this.... It's also the reason I'm moving massive traffic to direct processors.

[KRL]

Nothing is forever. Only thing guaranteed is change.

That's why first thing I do in the morning is scan all the tech news wires to see what's changed while I was asleep.

[Melody]

Originally Posted by Peaches

Why do you think I'm going back to school to learn something different? ;)

I have a degree with which I could teach or work on a museum-level in the "real world". I also write for a living, which is also called "creative starvation". I'll still take the rocky times and working for myself over a regular pay day anyway. I've always worked hard as well as smart. It all balances out. ;)

[dannyz-zbuckz]

I've also noticed it's a lot harder to retain people these days. We add more and more content to our sites yet retention stays the same or goes down, and 90% of our cancels list the reason as 'no problem, just moving on.'

I remember back in the day promoting AVS sites it was bloody easy to get 90% retention, now 60 - 70% seems good....

Guess it goes back to more competition, and too many damn TGP's and free sites that easily make the surfers cum long before they get to our tours. It really takes something different to convert and retain them these days.

[Heywood Jablome]

Originally Posted by dannyz-zbuckz

I remember back in the day promoting AVS sites it was bloody easy to get 90% retention, now 60 - 70% seems good....

Guess it goes back to more competition, and too many damn TGP's and free sites that easily make the surfers cum long before they get to our tours. It really takes something different to convert and retain them these days.

Add to that the fast internet connections and cheap data storage available these days, the porn addicts now have bigger and better porn collections than most paysites.

[CaptainHowdy]

No More Free Content!...

[12clicks]

I hate to break this to all of you veterans but its all about giving away the cumshot.
if you're giving it away, what the fuck is left to buy?
We all made a fortune on Pam and Tommy but we all got to see Paris for free.

Savvy surfers are the bigest problem.

[woj]

of course the ratios are down, back few years ago, any moron could make good money dong this stuff, now a days it actually takes some skill...

[Snake Doctor]

Originally Posted by 12clicks

We all made a fortune on Pam and Tommy but we all got to see Paris for free.

Savvy surfers are the bigest problem.

Very nice analogy.

[SleazyDream]

good programs still promote good

[Sosa]

Things are changing but there are some kickass sites out there that still convert pretty damn good. Don't always push what other people are and try out new things.

[s2kcord]

Give it another 10 years everything will be free online. If not you will be converting 100,000 to one so what will be the point? Thats why I say build good and build fast make your money while you can and sell your site's before that day hit's

[NoWhErE]

No matter how smart or big you are. When it comes to business, the only ones that survive are the ones that have the ability to change.


The internet is evolving and we need to evolve with it.

Natural selection does not only apply to animals ya know

[Babagirls]

I totally agree about the TGP game..its really hit or miss with sponsors. Some do 1:1000'ish...others do 1:9000 with tgp traffic. thats where a LOT of the compition is, thats where alot of newbies start (is with submitting galleries).

now, with SE traffic, I havent seen a decrease in converting SE traffic at all. heres 3 different sponsors of mine:





and this is blog and SE traffic mixed (why the ratio is a little more):

(take from this month, May 15th-19th)

I dont think SE traffic has changed. But tgp traffic definatly did. Just my

[Melody]

There are programs I convert 1/10 on with AVS traffic. The same with SE traffic. Problem is it's harder to get 1000 SE hits than it is 100,000 TGP hits and, marketed right, you can make more money with the latter.

But it's still a really bad business no newbie should get into now. Leave it to vets.

[WiredGuy]

Originally Posted by Peaches

Why do you think I'm going back to school to learn something different? ;)

What are you learning in school? I can't imagine going back, it felt like I did a prison sentence in retrospect. 5 years in uUniversity, damn, that's like a 2nd degree manslaughter charge!
WG

[Babagirls]

Originally Posted by WiredGuy

What are you learning in school? I can't imagine going back, it felt like I did a prison sentence in retrospect. 5 years in uUniversity, damn, that's like a 2nd degree manslaughter charge!
WG

yep. i feel the same. took me a month to figure out that college was just not for me. every minute in the classroom was hell. talk about motovation to be your own boss.

[bdld]

sales are indeed down lately (last couple of months), the only thing i can point to is a processor issue. there's amazing fluctuations too. the kind i've never seen before.

[pornguy]

It also comes down to smarter surfers.

[bdld]

regarding SE traffic conversions.. adwords and YSM have a lot to do with it. with adult material, those that are looking for freebies check the regular results, those that may be willing to pay click on the ads. thus the paid advertising converts much better. 3 years ago there wasn't as many ads nor kw's with bids.. i'd also blame the emergence of yahoo/google images/video as well. so that should help explain it.

[BradM]

More competition, more free stuff, surfer awareness, chargebacks, higher costs in doing business, thus more shaving blah blah. List goes on and on.

[bdld]

adult had a real good chance of having mainstream-like conversions at the beginning, but tgp's really messed that up. you go online for anything mainstream-related and there's a fee for anything and everything.

[Babagirls]

Originally Posted by bdld

...the paid advertising converts much better.

i never once paid for a SE listing

[quiet]

Originally Posted by WiredGuy

What are you learning in school? I can't imagine going back, it felt like I did a prison sentence in retrospect. 5 years in uUniversity, damn, that's like a 2nd degree manslaughter charge!
WG

funny how everyone has a different perspective. uni was the best time of my life. with regard to the topic, overall conversions have probably always slowly gone down since the beginning of online web porn. the thing to do was to just get more and more traffic - enough to always more than offset shittier conversions. anyway, i'm retired

[xLaborJames]

I think things have gotten really saturated but I still have a few sponsors who convert just as well for me as they did 4 years ago believe it or not. THings have changed for sure though. I remember search engine traffic used to be pure gold and now it seems to be so much easier to get so its created some weird balance. Its really all about focusing on mulitple income streams for me and not putting all my eggs in one basket.