hmmm, Im going to get bashed for this, but I have to ask.

bandwith from a provider who's under chapter 11 is the best bandwith there is?

just asking....

Hmm. Proggod, can you explain exactly why you make more money if a customer paying for a 100mb feed only uses 50mb? How does this work? Do you only get charged by the amount you utilize or what?

good point dipshit :)

raises the question eternal question.... if you never used it, was it there to begin with? hehe

Brad

Well its simple really, if we have 3gigs of bandwidth purchased (commited too) but we are only really are only averaging at 2gigs of bandwidth, we pay for 2gigs. Its as simple as that :)


Of course we dont' pay per megabit, we usually pay in 100megabit tiers or more..


Gloabl Crossing's network in my opinion and alot of other people is the best. It has the fastest routes to just about everywhere, is never oversubscribed, and has a tone of redudancy. We are buying transit on a network, regardless of if the company current financial situation. Global Crossing unlike cogent or level3 is not going anywhere. The Department of Defenses uses GBLX for half of their network on GBLX, they also have about 10 people that want to buy them.

*waits for sinempire's comments*

Dipshit,

I think it's pretty cool that he's able to buy bandwidth for less than $65 per megabit. Shit, I wish that was possible in the Detroit area. How's that for a comment? lol!

Brad

I am pretty sure I could drop you a 100meg feed in the detroit area as well.. To the closest shared building or Global Crossing location.


And believe me right now we are paying the most we every will for bandwidth, the more we sell the cheaper it will get. Without giving too much away from our business plan, keeping watching for the future of Way2Fast Networks/Hosting..


We can drop $6500 100meg lines from tier1 bandwidth to practically any major city, if you are interested hit me up on icq or aim :)



PS: I love the bashing, just gives me more of a chance to let everyone know about our awesome prices, and facilities :)

Mrbandwidth - While you make a lot of good points, and quite honestly they apply to almost *every* small host that started in the last year, you are incorrect about bandwidth pricing.

I've been "involved' with the networking "community" for a long time now, just fringe stuff making psuedo-friends of high school kids that grew up and are now running the networks you talk a lot about today.

I guarantee you, that you can get $50/mbit with no problem if you commit to gbit levels, from a number of Tier 1 providers. (tier1 is defined as a provider that is transitless).

Of course, we're tiny as hell comparatively to the people talking here. Lack of capital tends to stave off quick development, but we've been around for over 3 years now, and have just expanded to another city and are finally able to commit to levels that at least make us somewhat price-competetive. What we lack in capital/sales staff/whatever we make up for in knowledge however, so I'm confident we will steadily (but slowly) keep on growing.

I know for an absolute fact (been quoted from multiple providers) that you can do commits for 5mbit/sec at less than $150. Shrug.

-Phil

ProGod,

You claim that you are doing 2 gigabit of bandwidth, that's quite a bit of bandwidth you got there. How do manage to do all that bandwidth on your OC9 (450mbit) link? Your traceroute?s seem to show that you only have an OC3 (155mbit) (Way2Fast3OC3.atm5-1-100.ar2.PHX1.gblx.net (64.210.21.142) [AS 3549] 68 msec 68 msec 68 msec) Can you shad some light on this?

Jeeez, I actually read all that,, didn't understand 50% BUT I read it... lol

OK, you guys need the lingo for cheap service:

Every server comes with RAID ->


http://thumb-2.image.altavista.com/image/152177270

And a Mirror Image

http://ccpl.carr.org/~troyr/mt.moran_1.jpg

In addition, we have big pipes (on my motorcycle I am buying with your money), and we are located in a Class-A facility (I mean Class Act, lol).

We offer 24/7 support, that is 24 divided by 7 which is 3.4 hours of support a day.

OK, so now you know the hosting secrets, just go start your own company.

:) lol

I agree with everything you say as to quality bandwidth when it is regards to a paysite. Wih conversion rates being what they are now I am not sure that paying more than a dollar per gig is cost effective. I am assuming that a lot of tgpers use the cheap bandwidth hosts and I wonder what their experiences are? How much longer does it take for a page to load on a low end host versus a high end one. Do the fulltime tgpers on here use low or high end bandwidth and why?

Sheesh people. It was a small scenario he wanted you to picture, he didn't say we're using 2Gbps bandwidth (Quote: If we have 3gigs of bandwidth, keyword here being IF, go back to reading comprehension class). Also, if you scroll up, you'll see where I posted utilization rates, and the OC-9 thing was a typo by the web designer. So for the love of god calm down and go fuck yourself.

:321GFY

Well, I know for a fact that I have 5 product books in front of me from backbone providers, and I don't see anything under $100-figures for a GigE handoff...(that is floor pricing)

How desperate the provider is and how good the buying company is at negotiating the end-price makes all the difference...I mean, if you can get a hell of a deal now, but the company loses money on you and eventually takes a shit gets you back to step one again...

If Northpoint, Rhythms, and Covad charged $200 for DSL instead of $100, they would have 25% less clients, but still be in business...

I hope bandwidth doesn't end up like LD...that would suck MAJOR ass...

Bob

MrBandwidth -

You're correct in that you won't see anything near rock-bottom pricing from published pricing. I think verio has 45mbit published at $11k ;) I guarantee I can get it for far, far, less than that.


You won't be able to get worldcom, or sprint, or even att bandwidth for super-cheap, but that doesn't mean those companies are more financially viable. Worldcom carries the majority of all internet traffic, and charges a pretty penny for it. Look at their financial situation.

However, there are far more Tier1 (transitless) providers than just the huge ones you hear about. Transitless providers can sell for uber-cheap since adding more bandwidth utilization doesn't directly cost them money. It only costs them in infrastructure upgrades, no bill to their transit providers or anything. Essentially, adding a couple hundred meg to their network is "free" to them, since they won't notice it.

Kimmykim makes a good point earlier in the thread though. How valuable your business is to your upstream(s). For this reason, we buy from a semi-smallish national backbone, where we personally know a lot of the engineering staff, and our also one of their larger customers. We're still fully redundant, and we willl be adding more transit links to other providers as our usage justifies it.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is the bandwidth market has changed a lot. And their are hosts that are just interested in hosting your sites and that's it, and there are hosts that are interested in building their own network and systems so they can control the service they offer to you better. Neither is inherently better than the other, but they both have advantages and disadvantages. We're attempting the latter, slowly growing and such, but it does get frusterating to see newcomers come in, and just seemingly be a magnet for new customers just based on slightly lower pricing and a string of BS coming from them. Shrug.

I do agree cogent needs to go out of business, I think that happening will seperate the men from the boys so to speak, and cogent has done far more harm to the hosting market than good. Lowering pricing is good, but doing it below cost only harms those companies that are planning to be around long-term, and also opens the door for a lot of scam artists out to make a quick buck while the fad lasts.

peace,

-Phil

Great points...

I have even seen rumblings of a 45M full DS3 going in for around $6k plus telco access...

Word to the wise, don't ever buy list :)

Bob

Just so we all understand, the actual cost for bandwidth for any tier1 provider is $0. Once the fiber is run, and paid for there really are virtually no costs.

Overall they may need to make enough to pay for their staff and equipment costs, but they could easilly add another customer without adding virtually any costs to their bottom line.

It comes down to how much business you are going to do with the company, we do and are going to do ALOT of business with Global Crossing. We are buying transit from them, and transport. They know this, and it is directly reflected in our pricing.

This in response to SinEmpire's post. We use Cogent as one of our upstream providers. But unlike some hosting company's, Cogent is not our only upstream provider. We also have Verio, Qwest, and Limelight (Williams) connections. Also we are in contract negotiations for our own public and private peering at PAIX.

We have an internal policy to never exceed 50% utilization of any circuit, (even our gigabit circuits with Cogent and Verio) to assure that we will always have connectivity in the event of a failure or upstream bankruptcy. Our network engineer has worked with Cogent to identify routing/latency issues and has made BGP policy changes to help route traffic around those trouble areas with Cogent's Netrail.

Cogent has had its share of growing pains with their peering, but with their recent acquisition of PSI.net, they have acquired much needed additional peering points to other networks. Another plus for Cogent is that they have a nationwide 80 gigabit/sec backbone. Some of the older networks like Verio, are still at OC-48 ( 2 gigabit) and OC-192 (10 gigabit) levels. With us, since we have multiple gigabit connections, a network with an OC-48 backbone doesn't cut it anymore.

How long will Cogent be around? Who knows. But one thing is for sure, Cogent has caused every network provider out there to re-evaluate their pricing structure, and that has benefited everyone.

Best Regards,
Reliablehosting.com / XXXWebhosting.com Technical Department

Good to hear good things from a webhosting company that uses Cogent. I think think the ones that bash Cogent are the ones that are too far away to get Cogent access.

Long thread

Nice post reliable!! And I have heard from many of your customers that they are very satisfied :)

Brad

<snicker>

Bump, it's 2005 now! LOL God damn, I can't believe how expensive bandwidth used to be. On all levels, thanks Cogent for driving the prices of other providers down over the last 3+ years.

Muhahah

Brad

I'm bumping this thread to prove my point that Brad's ranting about Alphared today is pretty much identical to his ranting about cogent and hosts that used them in 2002.

Cogent didn't go bankrupt and prices didn't go back up....instead they kept falling like a drunk guy walking through an oil slick.....and odds are they will continue to do that.

Pardon me if I don't believe the predictions about bandwidth pricing at $4/meg being a temporary thing that will only last until the people offering it go bankrupt.

i can get level 3 for $6 a meg with a 10 gig commit...

95&#37; billing plus over subscribing would allow me to make a profit on $6 a meg all day long..

some people like to justify a higher price and i dont blame them.. why sell a chicken for $6 if someone is willing to pay $20....

i agree with brad that the b/w whores have ruined the pricing model, but like the tubes, shit comes along that makes you have to change with the times...

but, for brad or anyone else to say that you cant turn a profit on $6 a meg using good b/w and providing good service is bullshit...

there are so many other factors that make a hosting company operate in the red or the black...

The masterminds of hosting are delivering in here today :) Excellent read everyone!

hmmmmmm....... :helpme :error :1orglaugh

nobodies perfect - hehe

Man.. I posted here in 2002?

*hides*

Good trip down memory lane though. I wonder how naive I'll think I was looking back to this moment 6 years from now :)

In todays fast changing world on how people do business online, even hosting game will change and be effected. The way i see it, the internet is becoming more like TV ( free broadcast mostly and revenue from ads ) hence there will be more demand for all types of bandwidth. You always need both type of bandwidth, " cheap " and " quality " . Some traffic must go through " cheap " bw and some traffic must go through " quality " connection bandwidth.

Ranting Toejo
:thumbsup

this rant has legs:thumbsup

One Fitty rants:thumbsup

Good read! Hosting is a complicated matter.

This thread from 6 years ago was spot on at that time. This old 'rant' has nothing in common with the current AR situation. Nice try! Great bump :)

How hillarious! Well, before they went out of business Like Whoa did have some great network! :)

Brad

This is a threadjack
 

ooooopppppsssss

How can you say that your current rant has nothing in common with this rant and keep a straight face and expect people to take you seriously?

The only major differences are the numbers ($40 per meg instead of $4 per meg) and the year in which the thread was started.

Brad previous nickname was sinempire ?Ha ha

That confused me the most about this thread :)

6 years ago Cogent was an entirely different network not build to support hosters like it is today. Cogent is currently a world class network, everything is different now. If you re-read the original post, I was explaining how they came to be. Even back then, it was mostly hosts improper sales/use/delivery of Cogent that contributed to huge to the negative stigma attached with it as a network.

And MojoHost used to be SinHost before I rebranded it :1orglaugh :winkwink:

Brad