I'll throw in my 2 cents...

You don't always get what you pay for -- Nike crap shoes -- a perfect example ;) If you are a fulltimer -- you owe yourself the job security that a reliable host provides -- because you WILL have downtime at some point and you will be fucked bad if you don't have some good people looking out for your sites...

I use LikeWhoa, Cyberwurx, and Five-Elements -- even if one goes down for an hour I have sites on two other hosts still making money...

I was w/ about 6 hosts when I first started and I got bad downtime w/ all of them (it's a bad feeling when you can't call anyone for help!) -- finally I asked Qon from OnProbation.com -- he said Cyberwurx hosted his box and he hadn't had downtime for 2 years straight -- so I bought into them at like $6/gig (for 2 years) -- prices have fallen since then and I decided to diversify -- I get really good personal service from LikeWhoa and Five-Elements -- I've never met the Cyberwurx guys but they are very professional and always take care of my shit -- not to mention I use their CWNIC.com service to manage all of my domains.

So my advice for freesites is to get a few different hosts -- put that shit on your credit card -- no worries.

As for paying for 24/hour support -- I think the best sysadmin's are bad ass nerds regardless of pay... even if there was no money involved you know these guys would still be tweaking their boxes all night long and joking about Microsoft certification exams... really what could be more fun?

so hows the avg iguana suppose to know if your host is in fact overselling bandwidth and crossing their fingers every night? you can ask the host or ask other people that host with them, but u really don't have a clue if they're doing it or not.

If you are paying $50 a Meg, they are doing it, bottom line.

I know the per Meg pricing of just about every single backbone provider in the World...and NO ONE, and I mean NO ONE is selling anything for less than 100 per Meg for a GigE handoff (unless the AE begs "Please, this will be a REALLY good customer" and gets deal team approval, and the financial guys are pissed cuz they aren't making any money on this deal, but they sure could use the new monthly revenue).

The reason all the telco's/ISPs in the World are going under, is that they have to compete with the small guys who oversubscribe and undercut the companies they buy from...

Don't be afraid to ask hosts and ISPs who their upstream providers are, how much bandwidth/capacity they have, how full is their "pipe", do they oversubscribe, and if so, to what rate...they will give you this information, if they do not, and back it up, don't do business with them...

MrB

check latency.

Bad latency on last 2 hops (or so) mean the host is overselling.

bad latency on the server means an overcharged virtual host (too many virtual on one server)

if you get big latency when you jump unto a new network, than its a problem with their whole network



these are not absolute rules...

Actually you are not correct, we do have an OC3 to our office.. We have purchased quite a bit of space with global crossing, and quite a bit of bandwidth as well. We are also constructing a new NOC in phoenix, and eventually moving everything there. We are running GIG-E fiber from several locations to several locations, and have peering set up there as well. We can currently drop 100 meg handoffs just about any place in the country, or we can host them here as well.


I assure you, you can do the full 100megs and we still make a nice profit, so I am not over-subscribing our bandwidth.

I suggest you get your facts straight before you speak out of your ass..


Oh and GBLX is in bankrupcy protection, not bankrupt. All a legal maneuver so one of the many many companies trying to buy them, can do so easily


We were smart, we took advantage of their situation to get a commitment for massive amounts of bandwidth at cheap rates. You can get better bandwidth anywhere, and defintely can't get it cheaper..


So... GO FUCK YOURSELF
:)

is it obvious to anyone else sinempire and mrbandwidth are the same person? look at the posting times, location, etc. his first post ever happens to be 3 minutes before sinempires "bravo" post. come on sinempire, have the balls to call the guy out yourself :thumbsup

:ak47:
Well, you resell, and when you resell, one of two things have to happen.

1) You mark-up the bandwidth you bought to your end users.

2) You oversubscribe.

There really isn't any other way you are going to make money. If you don't make money, why are you in the game???

Let me reiterate, marking-up and oversubscribing isn't necesarrily a bad thing, unless you do it to the degree that decent companies have to "follow suit", lose money, and go bankrupt (or bankrupcy protection to appease you).

I'm just a squirrel trying to get a nut.

MrB
:ak47:

Damn, what a thread.

BW prices have dropped over the last year or two, there's no doubt about that.

I think that alot of times people get into the hosting business not realizing exactly what there is to it. I'd go into a long rant about redundancy, routing, how important your host is to their upstream in terms of volume, etc etc, but the bottom line is that if it sounds too good to be true it is.

:321GFY

Dipshit moron retard...how fitting...

Actually, I know SinEmpire...and I was on the phone with him while I was typing the message, and he logged on after...

Are you not supposed to know people personally on here or just be anonymous all the time??? Christ!

:321GFY

Yea....that and the fact that not everyone can actually afford a Benz.

Oops...that kills the whole analogy now.

Damn! Oh well, ya got me....:winkwink:

:winkwink:

For the most part I agree with you though. I didn't mean it to sound like I didn't. hehe.

Actually it's just a means of trying to stay afloat longer. It's the first step in the bankruptcy proceedings that most companies on their way out do. The bottom line is that anyone associated with cogent basically has their days numbered. They had a good Idea, but it just couldnt survive in todays marketplace. This is why the larger more established hosts never fooled around with cogent. Only the newbies with little to no money who think they could make a quick few bucks from this cheap bandwidth all started popping up left and right.

It will be very interresting to see what happens in the next few months. We already see cogent on the decline in quality, and their financials (if any) are a joke.

right. then he says: "Wow! Looks like Mr Bandwidth knows his stuff. See people, this is what I'm trying to drive home to you. "

no one said you shouldn't know someone, but if you're going to feign spontanious surprize and solidarity with someone else's post you basically just ghost authored, try and be a little less obvious if you want to be taken seriously. all i'm saying.

and yeah, at least i have the balls to use a fitting nick. why not change yours to "Sinempire's Bitch"

SinEmpiresBitch was taken...:Graucho

Go talk to Williams, GlobalCenter, and AT&T with a reasonable commitment. There's 3 for your "1". Plus, the network is not oversubscribed, we have a OC-3 in our office directly to GBLX for IP transit, plus multiple 100Mbps feeds in PHX for other customers and our cache servers, in addition to a nationwide agreement with GBLX for space and connectivity.

Just because you see a single OC-3, doesn't mean our entire
network is comprised of that. There's more than meets the eye.

Oh, if you're still worried about the hosting going on at our location:
30 second input rate 9708000 bits/sec, 11215 packets/sec
30 second output rate 92851000 bits/sec, 13629 packets/sec

60% capacity on the link, and the new network rollout has already started, hence why we have some equipment in GlobalCrossing's datacenter for now.

Hey Dipshit Moron Retard -

No 'bitches' just lots of friends! :1orglaugh Go Fuck Yourself!

I should be applauded for trying to get the FACTS posted on here. What's the matter, you can't handle the truth? I don't profess to be the smartest guy in town but when it comes to sincerity you'll be hard pressed to find someone who makes a more honest effort.

Because I was skeptical of the economics of their offer I picked up the phone to speak with someone that I knew to be infinitely wiser then myself in these areas. Thus, Mr. Bandwidth. I didn't call him 'out' on it because although I know an awful lot, I would never profess to be a resident expert. I'll let the person that's in the 'know' take that conversation over.

Brad

P.S. - To all you fucking whiners, the day that you post your real name in a thread or on your corporate site is when I'll start listening to you. LOL

I assumed/hoped you had more than a OC-3. But then again, I see companies EVERYDAY say they have multiple OC-3's, or a OC-192 for crying out load when all they have is a Frac or a server in colo with a 100M uplink, committed to 10M, burstable.

I wasn't accusing, don't get me wrong...I just have a hard time understanding how companies that buy pipe can sell below the companies they bought from without compromise.

Bottom line is, the tough thing about hosting/bandwidth is that it is vaporware...the end user really doesn't know what he is truly getting...

MrB

I feel inclined to say that the people at Way2Fast hosting do seem real nice. For all I know, their network is what they say it is. Obviously, at least one person does disagree. If it isn't what they say it is, that would clearly be wrong.

Cheers

Brad

but seriously, we still havent got an explanation for the OC-9 statement...

Heh, you just saw me ream out Cogent, you think I'm gonna sell bandwidth for less than my cost? We'd like to stay in business you know. :)

But yeah, most of the time the end-user is caught up somewhere between the background techno music or the overflashy flash animations, and decide a nice site makes up for a shitty network.
:2 cents:

would be great if we had a webmaster organization that could check shit out like this. actually send someone out to their facilities and take a look at what they really have.

OC-9?

OC9 = 466.56 Mb/sec

Well, www.Boardwatch.com does a pretty decent job...but they stop at Backbone IP providers...

www.dslreports.com does a great job for DSL, but that's it (and no one is delivering DSL anymore except for the LEC's).

I haven't found anyone who 3rd parties hosting...

MrB

Well, I found OC-9...spank my ass and call me Charlie...

40 Gbps - OC-768
13.27 Gbps - OC-256
10 Gbps - OC-192
4.976 Gbps - OC-96
2.488 Gbps - OC-48, STS-48
1.866 Gbps - OC-36
1.244 Gbps - OC-24
933.12 Mbps - OC-18
622.08 Mbps - OC-12, STS-12
466.56 Mbps - OC-9
155.52 Mbps - OC-3, STS-3, category 5 cable, high-speed ADSL downstream
100 Mbps - CDDI, FDDI, Fast Ethernet
51.84 Mbps - OC-1, STS-1
44.736 Mbps - T-3, DS-3 North America
34.368 Mbps - E-3 Europe
20 Mbps - Category 4 cable
16 Mbps - Token Ring LANs
10Mbps - Thin Ethernet, category 3 cable, cable modem
8.448 Mbps - E-2 Europe
6.312 Mbps - T-2, DS-2 North America
6.144 Mbps - Standard ADSL downstream
3.152 Mbps - DS-1c

Ok hero, I think you were already applauded for trying to get the truth out in this thread multiple times. Your initial post was great and everyone appreciated it. But chill out with the melodrama: I "can't handle the truth"? Why would I care? I'm not in the hosting business or affiliated with either of you. Apparently you can't handle the truth if it irks you this much that someone bothered to point out how cheesy your attempt to covertly punk out way2fast was.

No one is "whining" except you, your person "in the know" ended up making both you of look like jackasses because his entire post tried to discredit a company because they have 1 router named "Way2Fast0C3" and he didn't know what the fuck an oc-9 was. Yes they exist, they're 466mbps. Google for +oc-9 +bandwidth or check any of these links:

http://streamingmedialand.com/data.html
http://partner.nuspire.com/bandwidth_Scales.htm
http://www.spikeman.net/bandwidth.html
etc etc etc

If you're skeptical of someone's economics ask them how it works, don't call someone you feel is a "expert" to come talk shit on them for you and potentially ruin their business in front of hundreds of people. If I were you by this point i would be EMBARASSED to have my name or corporate logo associated with any of it.

Actually, he didn't ask me to post on it...he just asked me to read it...

Check the product books of 10 backbone ISPs and find me an OC-9...I dare ya...it might exist in the "grand scheme of things", but it is not an everyday sold product.

There again, seeing OC3 on a traceroute never constitutes all that they have, but let me reiterate...I have seen companies say they have an OC-192, and all they have is a Frac DS3 from a backbone who is tied into a 192 sonet, no backhaul...

I do have to apologize, I flamed before I did further homework...I basically did 2-3 things and went off...The Way2Fast guys in retrospect seem to have a good thing running...

Anyway...can't we all just get along :glugglug

:glugglug dont take it personally, this is GFY afterall :)

Good point....So go fuck yourself :Graucho

Dipshit - In case you missed it the comment about the OC-9 was just a small piece of his post. And he was wrong! Next time I see him he's buying the beer.

The you can't handle the truth comment wasn't melodrama, it was comedy. Lighten up! Ever see A Few Good Men with Nicholson and Cruise? lol

I wasn't trying to 'punk out' Way2Fast, they seem like nice people from the few interactions we've had. Based on the jist of this thread if I wanted to pick apart a host it would probably be one that uses Cogent bandwidth!

You've completely taken out of context what's going on here. Way2Fast jumped into the thread saying they'd sell 100mbit of Tier 1 bandwidth for $6500. That's pretty fucking amazing considering that there isn't a single offering anywhere on the internet to match it without being Cogent (or the like).

Suggesting that I decided to 'bash' their company is just plain off. Perhaps I should start another thread called 100 FULL megabit of blended and redundant Tier 1 bandwidth for just $6500 and see if we can't get Candid Hosting, Like Whoa, Cave Creek, and XXXWebhosting to jump in and add their two cents. :winkwink:

Brad

:GFYBand
:ticking
:moon
:smokin

Are we all having fun yet?? :rainfro

Brad, actually, I checked and double-checked (it was pissing me off), and there IS NO SUCH THING AS AN OC-9 in bandwidth terms.

I even consulted with someone else who knows more than me, PK, and he said "NO FUCKING WAY IS THERE AN OC-9!"

Anyway, it's really no big deal at this point, LOL...it's still a shit load of fatpipe!

A new GFY'er? You better believe it! I needed something else to consume my day, since I stopped playing Popcap Piggy Poker!

I need a drink :drinkup

MrBandwidth

They might like you better around here when you tell them that you used to work for the beer companies :Graucho

:drinkup

With all the shit that has been going on in the Industry lately, I have actually been considering going back!

:fart

heh, i think you're now trivializing things that weren't intended to be initially, but nothing wrong with some old fashioned PR. rather than drag on some pointless debate on semantics i'd rather just have a big ol' circle jerk though. i love you n stuff, we havings for much of humpings in mine car? danke. :thumbsup

heh gfy is a great time waster for me too while i wait for my company to go out of business, the joys of venture capital.

That's the beauty of arguing sports and bandwidth...

>> I swear, it took me TWO WEEKS to quit Popcap.com PiggyPoker...it completely consumed me...it's like being addicted to amphedamines all over again :)

As long as the LEC's don't start running things, we'll all be just fine!

Well its simple, we do pay less then we sell it for. There are many little hosts out there that try and offer super low prices, and barely make a few cents over what they pay. Personally it aggreviates the heck out of me. Trying to make hosting clients understand you have to pay more for 24 hours support, our own facilities, great service, etc.


However due to our buying power, and to be quite frank, our ability to bargain. We are able to sell bandwidth super cheap. I assure you if I sell 100megs of bandwidth at $6500, even if you are using 100megs of bandwidth I am making some money. It may not be as much as if you are using 50megs, but we always make enough money to cover our costs, our employees, our support staff, and our facility fees.


The best part is you can not get any better bandwidth then we sell, especially even close to the price we sell it for...