What would be really intresting to know is how much profit are pps programs making these days?

I already gave you my final word. You are an idiot. Now, please go back and read the posts so you can put things in its context.
HAHA REVSHRE MAKES MORE MONIES NOOB :thumbsup

:thumbsup

I am for trials dearly. I tried both trial and no trial but trial makes wayy more money than non-trials. You may make high-priced trials but keep trials nevertheless. Surfers prolly been burnt many times and they know if there's no-trial could very well mean site doesn't have much content/updates that could retain a trial member otherwise so the site owner maybe simply trying to force them to stay a member for atleast a month. Also, surfers may not wanna commit to a month without knowing if they were really gonna like the content :2 cents:

I agree... with Camazon my initial signup rate is $22 or so overall, lots of 3 month memberships too.

Catch with that, dealing specifically with 'seasoned' surfers is that their CC companies\third party processers will let them chargeback\credit at will no questions asked. Once again you can say it's our industries own fault, but none-the-less that's the state of things.

rev share owns, check my sig for 2 GREAT rev share programs

woo woo lots of lessons in this thread!

Webmaster A can do awesome with a revshare program and Webmaster B can do shitty with the same program... would be nice to see affiliates take some responsibility for the traffic they push, in the end its your marketing tactics and conversion rates that put and keep the money in your pocket

if you absolutely can't make out w/ a quality revshare program, go for a PPS... chances are you'll get shaved or politely given the boot because your trial conversions were shit anyway

The built-in NATS popup code beats sp2...

Ahh... so I went back and looked around...

Month to month, Jan, Feb, Mar, Apr

LSC $24.74 - $20.39 - $21.99 - $32.79
MC $20.76 - $24.33 - $24.19 - $30.83

So they have been going up.. but the valid part is that ND is $35 the entire time... Always making more even in Apr!

Like AW said, one day all the stupid fucks will get the picture.

So much Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah.

Rev Share or PPS is all meaningless. what matters is the $$ that hits your bank account.

This relies on one thing, your ability to drive good traffic and monitor what the sponsor is paying you. And yes I'm also a sponsor and an affiliate.

Unless you know the hours worked X traffic sent X signups X payouts, everything else is BS.

Yes the site may sign up 1 in 50 hits, but takes all day to get 50 hits, you earn $30. It may sign up 1 in 5,000, but gets 5,000 hits and hour so you earn a lot more.

The only thing you can trust is to see the size of the checks and the number of hours you work to get those $$. You could work all day for a program that does everything but wipe your arse and earn less than a program who thinks you're a professional and expects you to do the work.

Do you follow my drift?

The only thing you can trust is the honesty of the sponsor and his desire to get and keep getting your traffic.

$35 per sign up on every single sign up is impossible. Think about it for two minutes and you see the problems. It cost money to run a site.

Hosting, software, hardware, content, design, offices, staff, affiliate tools, PROCESSING, profit etc. The average spend on every single sign up has to be $70.00 or are these sponsor telling you their costs are 5%?

The average surfer will get bored looking at the same site for two months, it's the nature of porn and his search for the stronger porn "HIGH". Add to that the narrow track of some porn site. How many times can a guy jerk off to different girls getting into the back of the same van and going through the same routine time after time?

Plus what is different with 90% of the sites out there. We sell porn, if it were truly exclusive it would not sell, it's variations on a theme. Boy meets girl, girl fucks him, or at least drops her panties. ;) Every single site out there has 100 similar sites offering the same porn. Yes different girl, sofa, panties combination but still the same porn.

So how does it work?

Simple sign ups from affiliates and non affiliate sign ups ratio is the key.

We increased our ratio to 60%, this months it's a promo 75%. Do we offer $30 PPS or do we keep it at 75%?

How can we afford it?

After 6 months members are returning to see the 540 pieces of NEW and mostly UNSEEN content we've added to the site. Show me the EXCLUSIVE site doing that.

Moral of this story is.

CHECK THE SIZE OF THE CHECKS.

Because hes a moron. I said that as well to him. He just wants to argue with me for the fuck of it.

45 days and 885 joins is hardly enough time or joins to calculate a stable join value. at least not an accurate one that will apply to the majority of your affiliates.

rebills have much more to do with the traffic source as well. the model itself doesn't make an affiliate more or less, the quality of their traffic does.

while the overall join value for your entire program might be one thing, it could and most likely is entirely different on an affiliate to affiliate basis. IE a whale with a quality traffic source is going to skew your program wide data.

you may or may not make more money with revshare. you can't throw out a single number and claim your entire program makes x per join. it's just not true. it's something that must be calculated on an affiliate to affiliate basis.

Stupid thread and then you get content producers writing essays in it HAHAHHA

I do close to $50 a join with meatcash :thumbsup

I'm also a sponsor, affiliate and been making my living from porn longer than most here.

But WTF do I know, I work from my bedroom in my Mum's house. :1orglaugh

Tell me what is wrong with what I posted.

Nothing is wrong with it. I was just saying there are people out there that might know a thing or two more about milking every last cent out of a surfer.

you still wanna buy those 2u cases?

gus ripped me off for $500... ahaha

what happened with gus? You got my email right? He has been solid for me in the past. Email me I will try to get it fixed up.

Taking it to 100! :thumbsup

One of the people I totally respect and trust in this business, as an affiliate, it Steve Lightspeed.

Why? Because every day I see what I'm earning with him, the other sponsors I have to go to their site and find out. Steve emails me.

Wonder why other sponsors don't put these figures out as Steve does?

Maybe they don't want you comparing the figures every morning. :(

Even I as a sponsor don't do it. :(

I know there are and I talk to them. I know we get great traffic from other paysites and from site like review sites.

But do you really think the cross sell and upsell market is that good today, it's good but not fantastic?

We are selling to an experienced surfer, he's wary of a lot of the spin we put out. especially from a low quality site. If he hits a great site then he will look at the other sites promoted there.

And when he leaves he might stop spending on your site.

As I said look at the amount on the check, not on the sponsors banner.

There is something seriously wrong with this business if all but a handful of sites have to rely on the "tricks" generally associated with the PPS model to attract affiliates and still make a profit. Not least because surfers have to hate the crap we pull on them, so we are making our job harder and harder as time goes by. Online porn cannot hope to be anything but the poor relation of the adult entertainment industry until we start selling what people really want to buy, and doing so in a straightforward manner.

But realistically, nothing is going to change any time soon. Although some sponsors run successful revshare programs, they are a tiny minority and overwhelmed by the numbers who give revshare a bad name. Many startup programs choose revshare because they don't have the resources to fund PPS, but a lot also don't have the resources to build sites that will retain members. There are a few sponsors running revshare programs but their surfers still get the full bag of PPS cross-sells, up-sells, etc: you have to assume these programs are deliberately screwing their affiliates.

Although affiliates should earn less for (near) instant payouts and definitely should not be supporting the methods needed to deliver those payouts, most affiliates love PPS. Affiliates who consider switching to revshare face losing time and money while they sift through hundreds of revshare programs trying to find the dozen or two which work as they should: it's a much slower and less certain process than looking for decent PPS sponsors. Worse, there simply aren't enough good revshare programs for us all to promote, even if we wanted to.

Awesome post.

But in a section of the porn industry that regards content so low what do you expect? Why do magazines pay $2200 for a set, movie companies $50,000 for a video? Because they know the value of keeping a client. More important is how do they afford it.

This industry concentrates itself largely on getting a new member to replace the one that left, rather than retain the members it has. There will always be a turn over of clients, due to the nature of the business, but remember we are talking about a member hardly staying 2 months to make $30 a viable pay out.

Then they blame the nature of the medium rather than what is delivered.

But it will change and is starting to.

Finally! somone with some sense and knowledge...

We have the $$ to have PPS..we simply choose not to...we are developing a product to hopefully out last a lot of the competition....

Things are DEFINITELY headed for a shakeup...you can count on it.

Ever wonder what would happen to this industry if a processor the size of paycom had to go under?

Sure we would never hear about it.."everything would be fine" and "no trouble here"....right up until the day they close up shop...

We felt it once before with someone who did not have quite the market share as them....and a lot of programs bit the dust over night.....

If affiliates and programs alike cannot get the idea or learn from the history...then they are doomed to repeat it....would be great to see who scrambles for revshare then.....its funny how some affiliates come out and blame programs for shaving this...cross selling that...i want no console tours....oh yeah..and $35 per join...LOL

Why is the payout the only thing that cannot change with the times?
$35 per join was set almost 10 YEARS ago.....name me something that has not changed in this biz in 10 years......

just plain makes you laugh....we are here to make $$ as much as the next guy and that is really the ultimate goal.....we are just lucky not no have to do it "right now" and can go revshare......we have contemplated a PPS model...but right now we think the market is just too volatile for it.

but we will be around a long time....so i guess we will see.

Don't know if you have trials or not, but if you do, then why the fuck don't you pay per signup for all us idiots and skim the extra profits.

That's right..

Given same trial price, length and payout then no, you as an affiliate will make less per click sent. Even if the value/click came close to pps due to high % or insane rebill amount you'd still have to factor in the risk factor (busty-amateurs).

You're the idiot if you still believe the revshare gospel.

Troels....feel free to believe whatever you like...keep on pushing the PPS model and contribute to the problem.....i am sure you would be one of the first affiliates on here crying if a program goes belly up owing you a check....

we are building in new ways for loya affiliates to make $$ with us...and for the record i DO offer PPS...but i only offer it to loyal affiliates whos traffic is up to par.....not any TGP idiot who pushes shitty surfers my way to try and lose me $$ so they can pad their pockets at my expense....

Got 3-5 sales a day of decent traffic? I will give you PPS also...real 1st page raw counts and 1:600 or so conversions on it.....but like i said...its not open to everyone.

I totally agree! We have a ton of members who have been rebilling since 2001 and they are NOT people who forgot to check their statements and don't know they are members lol.

They suggest photoshoots they would like to see or ask for a certain type of video and we accomodate them.

Our members are not just peeking in, they are active participants and that is what makes them keep rebilling.

AmateurWealth, if you think your numbers are rocking right now, wait till you see them 6 months from now. What I honestly love to see is the stats of some webmasters that have been with us for a while. You will see them make 2 or 3 sales a day and have 20 or more rebills every day. They are making a killing on sending just a small number of sales.

Well, I can see we send out more signups a day than you recieve, and most of them come from the same site. Site is divided into niches for maximum filtering.

The site has a custom build script that auto-ranks sponsors based on value per click sent out (for each niche). So, if a pps sponsors shaves they automatically move down the list and get less traffic. Doesn't matter if they pay out $5 per signup or $5000 per signup, it's based on value per click sent out. End result? Best paysites (for us) are listed on top.

Ask me how many partnership programs are #1 in any niche where both % and pps sponsors are present?

I actually don't know... but I can take a look :) My bet is on zero.
And we have the volume in most niches to make it statistically correct.

That sounds great Troels...as i stated different people have different results...and from what you are saying you are doing very well based on the way you have decided to track your income.

$$ per click is probably the best overall guage for someone with your type of traffic.

Give us a test....i will gladly set you to PPS and see how we compare.

And if you do gather that info...please share it with us....:thumbsup

hmm.. that could be a good idea. 1 of the reasons we do not want to offer PPS cause then we have to worry about cheaters getting in the mix. We have no time for that, we are already doing well could care less about bringing in extra headaches. But have to admit all this talk here making me consider a PPS model as an option too thou.. will see in the future.

But sounds to me like your script counts value per click based on initial payout amount so definitely with PPS you are gonna see higher values immediately whereas much much lower with revshare cause cetrainly your script is not gonna wait around 3 years to see what the real value per click now becomes then. I'd say in that case don't even bother using any revshare in your mix. Also, you mentioned busty-amateurs in your post before? Busty-amateurs went belly up when like 5 or 6 years ago? Don't you think it's time for you to move on? lol. Look around you'll see other great revshare programs like karups, ATK, BOB etc. still around still paying webmasters for years besides I could also name quite a few PPS that went belly up owing lots of webmasters lots of money and nothing less than what busty-amateurs owed webmasters if not more :2 cents:

Ofcourse we set partnership programs with artificial per signup value to boost their rankings if we believe the site has quality. It then gradually moves towards the true value per signup - usually down. Still doesn't matter though. The value per click will still go up even if we launch a new site at the bottom of a niche IF the product is superior to its competition.

3 years rebill is a myth/rarity. The script will count them but we're talking very very very few signups, not enough to alter average value much.

Re: busty-amateurs.
I lost a lot on them, and other revshare programs that just died = no updates, change of loginarea, pissed off members blabla. Stuff I do not want to worry about. Doesn't have to be the progam itself even. Imagine all the rebills people have lost on Ibill partnership programs. And the AVS systems? Didn't they stop all rebills when they got hit? Tons of money lost there as well for affiliates.

The script counts rebills was what I wanted to say. Getting late. I'm off.
From what I can tell normal partnership program value per signup is $22 if they have trials.
At 60/40 that would mean $33 which is actually more than I thought total value would be. But you'd have to ask partnership owners for that number.

the numbers are off - IT IS getting late. Adios.
Couldnt edit :/

Rev Share is definitely the way to go! CamazonCash is paying 50% revshare and our stuff converts!!!

People should continue to use both.
$/click earned is the only way to count income regardless.

If you use artificial per signup value to boost rankings the rankings shouldn't go down just cause it's a revshare in reality. If it's a competitive sites with good content/regular updates etc. it should go per with an equal quality site.
Is not a myth/rarity to us since we got a lot of them however, not meaning to say all signups go 3 years obviously less than the # rebilling for 2 years and less than the # rebilling 2 years.
So did I. AVS like adultcheck hurt me bad too but if they were PPS I wouldn't even be expecting those rebills to begin with. Anyways, I lost even more when some PPS I promoted went down, when their stats changed magically within hours when I got emails that I made signups but stats area said I didn't when I submitted galleries to TGPs and not be accepted because it's an overpromoted sponsor or that tgp owner promoting the same sponsor therefore gallery declined these all cause lost revenues too. Then again that's the kinda business we are in. Bottomline, i personally tried both models and I never made nearly as much money as i did with revshares so I'm definitely biased and my vote will always (so far til a miracle happens and I make more with PPS) go for revshares :thumbsup