Palestine is finished - Page 3 - GoFuckYourself.com

Pathfinder · 05-08-2002, 05:10 AM

capribex:

Once again you have made some good points, not all of which I agree with but I don't want to argue details. That is what Israel and the Palestinians do and it really leads no where except to more disareement.

I fully agree that Arafat was and is not a good leader, but he was over whemingly elected by his people in an election overseen by an outside team which included President Carter.

Arafat is not, and has never been, in control of his people. He cannot and will not ever be able to control the extremists in and outside of his borders. I do not think any leader will be able to control the extemists for generations to come.

drumsicle:

A UN force would be my last option. I would prefer to see a force from that part of the world, but if not, then NATO. I am talking about a fighting force, with the military power to impose its will upon either side.

capribex · 05-08-2002, 05:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pathfinder

I fully agree that Arafat was and is not a good leader, but he was over whemingly elected by his people in an election overseen by an outside team which included President Carter.

Arafat is not, and has never been, in control of his people. He cannot and will not ever be able to control the extremists in and outside of his borders. I do not think any leader will be able to control the extemists for generations to come.

Well, I must agree with what you said, but sadly, this is exactly why I said Arafat is the tragedy of the Palestinian people... I didn't say he wasn't voted - I said he is less than a poor excuse for a leader... He is a symbol, not a leader.

And I do think there will be one day a Palestinian leader who will HAVE (even by force) to take control over the people. Otherwise, the head of the Palestinian people will be no more than a head of one armed gang, and Israel will never be able to negotiate with the Rep of one armed gang. They will need to negotiate with someone who is the single head of the Palestinian people.

As long as Arafat is in control, or as long as there is no one authority in the Palestinian side - this conflict is doomed to continue.

Pathfinder · 05-08-2002, 05:20 AM

FATPad:

I am fully aware why Israel have the post 1967 borders. I spent more than 30 years in the Army and fought in war five different times. I am aware of tactical and strategic defense. I understand why the Israeli Military does not want to give up some of the land that they won in battle. I understand that the country is small and the more they can expand their borders the greater in depth defense they have.

The question is: Just because it is Israel does it make it legal or right not to return to the borders that the world body (the UN) originally allowed them. That is the dispute between the two sides, that is what world opinion is divided over.

FATPad · 05-08-2002, 05:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pathfinder
land that they won in battle.

Key phrase right there.

People who start wars, get their asses handed to them, and lose land, have nothing to complain about.

Those same people who kept starting the wars looking to wipe out Israel, are now the people who are whining about legalities and UN resolutions, and how illegal Israel is. Ironic, no? Israel wanted to be left alone. Israel was a sanctioned UN land mass.

The Arabs didn't seem to care. They were going to storm into Israel and kill everyone there in direct defiance of a UN resolution.

Oops....they got their asses kicked repeatedly. Now all of a sudden UN resolutions are of paramount importance to these same barbarians and we're supposed to take them seriously.

Land that they won in battle. Land lost by a much larger force that was going to try and kill Israel and instead got smacked into last century.

The only people to be blamed for that lost land, are the retards themselves who owned the land before Israel.

FATPad · 05-08-2002, 05:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pathfinder

The question is: Just because it is Israel does it make it legal or right not to return to the borders that the world body (the UN) originally allowed them.

So, in answer to this question.

It's not because it's Israel that it's legal. It's because anyone who starts a war and loses land in 6 days should really just shut up and go home.

drumsicle · 05-08-2002, 05:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pathfinder

drumsicle:

A UN force would be my last option. I would prefer to see a force from that part of the world, but if not, then NATO. I am talking about a fighting force, with the military power to impose its will upon either side.

A military force that is gonna impose it's will on the Israelis. Are you fucking nuts? It ain't gonna happen. Nothing personal, but your "solutions" aren't shit.

Pathfinder · 05-08-2002, 05:42 AM

capribex:

Quote:

As long as Arafat is in control, or as long as there is no one authority in the Palestinian side - this conflict is doomed to continue.

It is my opinion that it is doomed to continue unless an outside force imposes its will on both sides.

The Hamas is headquarted in Lebanon. It has more military power than Arafat has possesed since his forces were disarmed in Lebanon. Its leaders have stated that they are not seeking peace with Israel. They are seeking the non-existence of Israel. They have stated that they, their children, their children's children, will not stop attacking Israel until it ceases to exist. They receive their funding and weapons from countries like Syria, Iran and Iraq, and from extremists groups in Egypt and Saudi Arabia. There are other extremists groups that Arafat has zero control over and this will apply to any Palestian leader that comes foward in the near future.

drumsicle · 05-08-2002, 05:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pathfinder
capribex:

It is my opinion that is doomed to continue unless an outside force imposes its will on both sides.

The Hamas is headquarted in Lebanon. It has more military power than Arafat has possesed since his forces were disarmed in Lebanon. Its leaders have stated that they are not seeking peace with Israel. They are seeking the non-existence of Israel. They have stated that they, their children, their children's children, will not stop attacking Israel until it ceases to exist. They receive their funding and weapons from countries like Syria, Iran and Iraque, and from extremists groups in Egypt and Saudi Arabia. There are other extremists groups that Arafat has zero control over and this will apply to any Palestian leader that comes foward in the near future.

WAKE THE FUCK UP. Israel, has some 400 tactical nukes. Some of the best fighter pilots in the world and fierce ground troops. No one is going to go in and impose their will on them. No one in the US is gonna support the casualties we will suffer from going in there and trying to control either side period.

And without heavy US involvement, no one will even think about going in there PERIOD.

Pathfinder · 05-08-2002, 05:52 AM

drumsicle:

Quote:

Nothing personal, but your "solutions" aren't shit.

I respect your right to have an opinion.

I wasn't aware that you had an inside track to how many nukes Israel has or doesn't have. You have knowledge that is outside of my AO.

It really is immaterial how many nukes Israel has. I am of the opinion that Israel will never use them unless they realise their destruction is inevitable.

I think you are mistaken about an outside force. It is my understanding that the prime minister of Israel has already tentatively agreed to the idea, and Arafat has stated he wants it.

Pathfinder · 05-08-2002, 06:02 AM

drumsicle:

In addition; sending in a force is an option that is under review by the US.

bhutocracy · 05-08-2002, 06:03 AM

and does anyone really think that if the US wanted to pressure Israel they'd use military and not economic sanctions????

Pathfinder · 05-08-2002, 06:15 AM

FATPad:

Quote:

The only people to be blamed for that lost land, are the retards themselves who owned the land before Israel.

Agreed. That does not alter the fact the dispute between the two sides and divided world opinion is about Israel continuing to occupy this land.

FATPad · 05-08-2002, 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pathfinder
FATPad:

Agreed. That does not alter the fact the dispute between the two sides and divided world opinion is about Israel continuing to occupy this land.

Rest of the world should mind it's own business. As should we.

The Arabs started this whole mess, and they continually keep poking the Israel military machine. Let them deal with the consequences.

If the US gets involved it should only be to support our ally and support the only free and democratic country in that area.

And yes. If this means letting Israel carpet bomb Palestinian lands then beat the hell out of the enraged Arab "brothers" that come running to help the Palestinians (as long as that help only involves killing Jews and not really doing anything else to help the Palestinians), then screw it, carpet bomb away and beat on some Arabs again.

Sometimes a good ass whoopin is the only way to teach someone some manners, and not every conflict can be settled peacefully. One side WANTS a war. It takes two to have peace but only one asshole with a grudge to start a war.

Pathfinder · 05-08-2002, 07:38 AM

FATPad:

Quote:

And yes. If this means letting Israel carpet bomb Palestinian lands then beat the hell out of the enraged Arab "brothers" that come running to help the Palestinians (as long as that help only involves killing Jews and not really doing anything else to help the Palestinians), then screw it, carpet bomb away and beat on some Arabs again.

The Palestians do not have a military so when Israel uses its military it is using it against civilians. The Palestians do not have military targets to carpet bomb, they do not have much of an infrastructure to carpet bomb, so you are talking about carpet bombing civilians.

The weapons of war that Israel has, for the most part, have been provided to them by the US.

Our relations with the Arab world are shaky at best. Israel's relations with the Arab world really doesn't exist and the same applies to the Asian World. Israel's relations with most European nations is shaky at best.

If we the US allowed Israel to use its military power to the extent that you are speaking of, our relations with the Arab world, for the most part would cease to exist. Our relations with Europe would be severely damaged, and probably with the Asian world as well.

Bottom line is the US would not want to suffer the world wide repercussions of allowing Israel to take such severe action.

While I understand your thinking; the consequences we the United States would have to pay for Israel killing civilians on such a massive scale are consequences we cannot afford to pay.

XXXManager · 05-08-2002, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by [Labret]

The Israelis would never kill an innocent child...
Hmmm... where is that video of that kid being mowed down against a wall with his father?

LOL. LMAO.
Hey Rat - A german TV research proved they were both killed by palestenian fire. Read the news you dumbass
LOL

05-08-2002, 05:10 AM	#101
Pathfinder theking of trailer parks Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Tehachapi, California Posts: 2,277	capribex: Once again you have made some good points, not all of which I agree with but I don't want to argue details. That is what Israel and the Palestinians do and it really leads no where except to more disareement. I fully agree that Arafat was and is not a good leader, but he was over whemingly elected by his people in an election overseen by an outside team which included President Carter. Arafat is not, and has never been, in control of his people. He cannot and will not ever be able to control the extremists in and outside of his borders. I do not think any leader will be able to control the extemists for generations to come. drumsicle: A UN force would be my last option. I would prefer to see a force from that part of the world, but if not, then NATO. I am talking about a fighting force, with the military power to impose its will upon either side. Last edited by Pathfinder; 05-08-2002 at 05:45 AM..

05-08-2002, 05:20 AM	#103
Pathfinder theking of trailer parks Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Tehachapi, California Posts: 2,277	FATPad: I am fully aware why Israel have the post 1967 borders. I spent more than 30 years in the Army and fought in war five different times. I am aware of tactical and strategic defense. I understand why the Israeli Military does not want to give up some of the land that they won in battle. I understand that the country is small and the more they can expand their borders the greater in depth defense they have. The question is: Just because it is Israel does it make it legal or right not to return to the borders that the world body (the UN) originally allowed them. That is the dispute between the two sides, that is what world opinion is divided over.

05-08-2002, 06:02 AM	#110
Pathfinder theking of trailer parks Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Tehachapi, California Posts: 2,277	drumsicle: In addition; sending in a force is an option that is under review by the US.

05-08-2002, 06:03 AM	#111
bhutocracy Not making A Comeback Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 10,218	and does anyone really think that if the US wanted to pressure Israel they'd use military and not economic sanctions????