How unprofessional do you consider site closings to be?

[jscott]

I see many MANY more sites closing nowdays compared to a year ago......what do you consider your losses as an affiliate to be and how unprofessional would you consider this?

Some people i know think it's totally fine, open a site, it doesnt work out, shut it down, they think in no way that is fucking over an affiliate.........and some even think it's none of the affiliates business to question why a site of theirs closed, or even think that we affiliates have no right to even question, critique or complain when they have a site that shuts down, even after we have promoted it for a while, sometimes years

whats your take on this?

[jscott]

thanks for the feedback everyone, but actually i think it hurts really bad to affiliates in the long run, losing rebills, buried links etc, and especially since most times the sites dont properly inform affiliates of sites closing

[darksoul]

well it sucks, true, but theres really nothing one can do about it
besides carefully chosing sponsors and have their sites developed in
such a way that'll be eash to null a site.

[jscott]

yea but what about thru a sponsors point of view? i never see the big sponsor guys shutting down sites, is it because they are more responsible about contracts etc etc? a lot of ppl think that if a girl says, "i dont want to be online anymore" that is enough to pull the site down

[darksoul]

Originally Posted by jscott

yea but what about thru a sponsors point of view? i never see the big sponsor guys shutting down sites, is it because they are more responsible about contracts etc etc? a lot of ppl think that if a girl says, "i dont want to be online anymore" that is enough to pull the site down

that is because the big guys do this as a business unlike some that
do it as a hobby.

[F U S I O N]

I agree, it sucks but it's unfortunatly part of the biz. This is exactly the reason I use a script for link codes on my galleries. If a site closes it only takes a second to change the link on however many galleries I built. I learned my lesson a few years ago and set up the script when Globill went down.

Actually, big sponsors do shut down sites. But most of the time they just redirect the link to a similar site in their program. The big guys have tons more affiliates to answer for as well as a much bigger reputation to maintain compared to Joe Schmo who throws up a single model site with a flaky model.

As far as big guys, look at ARS. I wonder how many webmasters dropped them after they killed all their previous sites a while back. Or even further back when Busty Amateurs closed.

It is unprofessional, but a lot of guys who launch sites are not professional to start with...

[Pornopat]

I like to know three months in advance so I can minimise the traffic flow.
Then still I want to hear a damn good reason.
If they stop all rebills including their own they might have a good reason since they loose money as well. Still I need to hear a detailed explanation in order to regain trust.
If a program thinks that I should bug off they might run into problems with me. I would call their moms for example.

[chris454660]

I think the main problem here is that every fucker and his mother thinks they have a hot girl and that they can run a paysite!!
Although everybodies tastes are different, in my opinion a girl needs to be special to have a paysite of her own. I see too many sites springing up these days with average or even less than average girls.

But at the end of the day its only the paysite owner who does himself harm closing sites. Im mean Im not gonna fucking promote a program that makes me removed links from all around the net!!! and Im sure otehrs would feel the same aswell.
There is one particular prog that is relatively new and has closed prob 4/5 solo girl sites for various reasons in its six month life....i MEAN COME ON, go a get a job at McDonalds!!!

[fris]

depends how good of a site it was :p

[jscott]

chris i agree with you man, i seen a site open up about a month ago, it had a GREAT design, GREAT tour everything was just GREAT, only 1 thing sucked really bad, the GIRL WAS FUCKING BUT ASS UGLY!!!! yes i agree i have unique taste in girls as does everyone else but i would've gauranteed 99.9% of ppl that seen that girl was fucking nasty as shit!!!! AND she didnt even get naked, she was totally NN.

why would someone open a site like that in the first place? i dont get it!

[jscott]

.........and as for sites that have good looking girls that close down, why close them down? why not just leave them up? why do they absolutely have to close, if you own proper documentation and contracts?

i'm not trying to bitch, i'm just trying to become enlighted, maybe i'm missing something

[CDSmith]

Some programs make efforts to at least redirect your traffic from the closed site over to a similar other site of theirs, thus giving your existing traffic a shot at new signups. That's something at least.

When a program just up and closes a site or sites and leaves the affiliates out in the cold it really does suck. However, since there are so very many programs out there worth promoting, there is nothing holding you back from simply dropping the offending program all together and sending your traffic to other more worthy ones.

It's a good thing when you know a little of the history of a program, what their track record is with regard to how they treat affiliates. On looking at my list of sponsors (some I have been with for over 7 years now), I can spot several that have made extra efforts to keep their affiliates happy while reshuffling their stuff.

Final thought: Sponsors who shit on their affiliates in one way are probably likely to shit on them in other ways too.

[Ramster]

Yes some of the big boys have shut down sites. Adult.com did at adultplatinum but they did at least redirect the traffic to other similar sites which is fine.

When a sponsor closes a site it sucks but I'd have to assume there is a GOOD reason. Is it unprofessional? Depends on the circumstances. If they close to new sales and leave the members area up so people rebill for at least a bit ok, not much money lost. But if they close it all down completely with rebills being dropped and webmasters losing money then yes there is an issue there for sure no matter what the reason.

[Amnesic]

Unprofessional like a sponsor who gives you the finger...

[chris454660]

spot on man.....I cant think of one single valid reason for closing a site.
And I think over the past 12 months all the excuses under sun must have been used; havent heard a good enough one yet

[Cassie]

Originally Posted by jscott

chris i agree with you man, i seen a site open up about a month ago, it had a GREAT design, GREAT tour everything was just GREAT, only 1 thing sucked really bad, the GIRL WAS FUCKING BUT ASS UGLY!!!! yes i agree i have unique taste in girls as does everyone else but i would've gauranteed 99.9% of ppl that seen that girl was fucking nasty as shit!!!! AND she didnt even get naked, she was totally NN.

why would someone open a site like that in the first place? i dont get it!

if there was one thing i learned long ago is that you have to remove yourself from the equation on what you feel would sell.

when we were doing paysites, some of the girls i shot were hidious. i mean a brick wouldn't make them look better. HOWEVER, surfers loved them and much more than the hot looking girls. why? part of it could be because the less attractive ones came across as more obtainable/real and surfers like to feel that connection whether it's "real" or not.

you always have to look at this business from a SURFERS perspective for if you look at it from solely a webmasters perspective, you will lose everytime.

ask any successful program owner.

as far as site closings, it's part of the biz although i do agree with what someone posted here that a valid reason needs to be given and an adaquet amount of time should be given.

[Downtime]

if it's a program closing down that would suck, but it's not like they had a choice. as long as i was informed prior to the closing I wouldn't be mad

[chris454660]

Cassie, you def have it right, when Im chosing sites to promote I base it purely on how that program has catered for me and like some-else said their track record.
What teh girl looks like really is prob one of the last things....I mean without meaning any offence look at Kirstens-room; major lasting player but not the best thing in the world to look at

[jscott]

Originally Posted by Downtime

if it's a program closing down that would suck, but it's not like they had a choice. as long as i was informed prior to the closing I wouldn't be mad

now with that comment could spark a whole new topic, i have been told i over-react when i make a big deal about sites closing down without prior notice, well, without notice AT ALL! hahaha

[CDSmith]

Originally Posted by Cassie

if there was one thing i learned long ago is that you have to remove yourself from the equation on what you feel would sell.

when we were doing paysites, some of the girls i shot were hidious. i mean a brick wouldn't make them look better. HOWEVER, surfers loved them and much more than the hot looking girls. why? part of it could be because the less attractive ones came across as more obtainable/real and surfers like to feel that connection whether it's "real" or not.

you always have to look at this business from a SURFERS perspective for if you look at it from solely a webmasters perspective, you will lose everytime.

ask any successful program owner.

as far as site closings, it's part of the biz although i do agree with what someone posted here that a valid reason needs to be given and an adaquet amount of time should be given.

I've been trying to get this point across for years. So true, and well said.

Fact is I promote lots of stuff that I'm not personally interested in. The smart webmaster knows that not everyone has the same taste in women as he does. There is a market for every type of girl out there.

[jscott]

i pretty much just think also

if you open a paysite and cant stand behind it i dont think you should open paysites to begin with...............and if you open a paysite knowing there is any possibility of it ever shutting down then i think you should never open that paysite to affiliate promotions

[chris454660]

Originally Posted by jscott

now with that comment could spark a whole new topic, i have been told i over-react when i make a big deal about sites closing down without prior notice, well, without notice AT ALL! hahaha

either way its a royal two fingers up from the webmaster imho.

I recently went through my promo site list that I keep on link for easy access....had to remove over 20 sites....not a nod or wink from any of them

[jscott]

Originally Posted by CDSmith

I've been trying to get this point across for years. So true, and well said.

Fact is I promote lots of stuff that I'm not personally interested in. The smart webmaster knows that not everyone has the same taste in women as he does. There is a market for every type of girl out there.

but still people think they can open up and shut down sites without considering their affiliates losses

[Quagmire]

Big corporations rape people every day. The Enrons, Haliburtons, Nortels, etc. Why should some small dirtbag webmaster who hangs up a shingle and starts up a sponsor site be any different? There are people screwing people at every level of business.

I don't see it as any different than some contractor who remodels the bathroom of your house, gives you a 5 year waranty on work and goes out of business a year or two later.

[Cassie]

Originally Posted by jscott

i pretty much just think also

if you open a paysite and cant stand behind it i dont think you should open paysites to begin with...............and if you open a paysite knowing there is any possibility of it ever shutting down then i think you should never open that paysite to affiliate promotions

ANYTIME anyone opens a paysite and/or opens that site to affiliate promotion, that program owner ALWAYS runs the risk of having to shut it down OR having it shut down for him/her. there are many variables that can cause a site to close and sometimes it's not within the owners control.

two, major contributing factors as of recent is 2257 and processors. i saw a couple of major programs shut their doors because of both.

if people take the "the sky will fall" attitude, then there wouldn't be anything out there for any of you to prmote. you have to be willing to take the risk and the good and the bad in order to succeed.

[chris454660]

Originally Posted by Cassie

ANYTIME anyone opens a paysite and/or opens that site to affiliate promotion, that program owner ALWAYS runs the risk of having to shut it down

I disagree, as Jscottt said if you arent in this business or any business seriously then dont get into business. A good business of any type should have a good business plan and an ongoing devloping contingincy plans. There is always an asnwer for every problem - closing down isnt acceptable.
At the end of teh day there is always gonna be an option to sell up

[jscott]

Originally Posted by Cassie

ANYTIME anyone opens a paysite and/or opens that site to affiliate promotion, that program owner ALWAYS runs the risk of having to shut it down OR having it shut down for him/her. there are many variables that can cause a site to close and sometimes it's not within the owners control.

two, major contributing factors as of recent is 2257 and processors. i saw a couple of major programs shut their doors because of both.

if people take the "the sky will fall" attitude, then there wouldn't be anything out there for any of you to prmote. you have to be willing to take the risk and the good and the bad in order to succeed.

that is true BUT.....they should be heartless! if a model guy or girl, signs a contract, they need to uphold that contract, dont give in to the person when they come crying back saying take me off the net bullshit........they signed the thing, they are over 18, they are adults now, if they dont want that anymore they need to suffer the consequences, we all suffer consequences of shit we did at younger ages

and also, proper contracts and agreements are a must also

sucks how some people mentality is, oh girl wants off the site, you have proper contracts and want to be "nice" guy / BAD business man then take her off the site

[Manowar]

too many newbies thinking the money is in paysites

[Cassie]

Originally Posted by chris454660

I disagree, as Jscottt said if you arent in this business or any business seriously then dont get into business. A good business of any type should have a good business plan and an ongoing devloping contingincy plans. There is always an asnwer for every problem - closing down isnt acceptable.
At the end of teh day there is always gonna be an option to sell up

really? boss hogg was around for YEARS and his affiliates were thrilled with the money they were making. last year (i believe), he had to shut the doors because of the 2257 issue. there isn't always an answer to every problem ESPECIALLY when there are stronger powers controlling the situation. you just do the best you can to make it work within your ability.

by the same token, the fly by night sites are just that and if you don't do your research on a program, then you really get what you deserve. hence, the reason for webmaster boards. if a group states they have never heard of so and so, then it's best to promote someone else who has a longterm, strong, reputation.

some of you affiliates (not you specifically) want everything handed to you and done for you. it doesn't work that way. you have to make the first move and do what you have to do to make what you want work for you.

[Cassie]

Originally Posted by jscott

that is true BUT.....they should be heartless! if a model guy or girl, signs a contract, they need to uphold that contract, dont give in to the person when they come crying back saying take me off the net bullshit........they signed the thing, they are over 18, they are adults now, if they dont want that anymore they need to suffer the consequences, we all suffer consequences of shit we did at younger ages

and also, proper contracts and agreements are a must also

sucks how some people mentality is, oh girl wants off the site, you have proper contracts and want to be "nice" guy / BAD business man then take her off the site

sometime having a rock solid contract is only worth the paper it's printed on (as my lawyers tell me) and the back and forth battle just isn't worth the time. look at it from a business perspective.

[chris454660]

how is 2257 an excuse for closing?

Im no paysite owner but surely anybody since the whole Traci Lords thing must ahve been keeping tight records, and if you werent...well it just goes to prove the arguement that they shouldnt have been business.

[mattyboy]

Originally Posted by Cassie

when we were doing paysites, some of the girls i shot were hidious. i mean a brick wouldn't make them look better. HOWEVER, surfers loved them and much more than the hot looking girls. why? part of it could be because the less attractive ones came across as more obtainable/real and surfers like to feel that connection whether it's "real" or not.

you always have to look at this business from a SURFERS perspective for if you look at it from solely a webmasters perspective, you will lose everytime.

Thats a great point which many webmasters simply can't grasp. 'Making porn sites' isn't about looking at hot size 10 teen models all day long

[jscott]

Originally Posted by mattyboy

Thats a great point which many webmasters simply can't grasp. 'Making porn sites' isn't about looking at hot size 10 teen models all day long

you know what, compared to all the other niches out there, there is really small demand for ugly ass porn girls...........

they still like hot girls but are in REAL pictures and REAL situations, like guba..........ugly ass girls is not a highly desired niche (compared to the other niches)

[CDSmith]

Originally Posted by jscott

but still people think they can open up and shut down sites without considering their affiliates losses

I addressed this in post #12 of this thread.

I have always had my traffic spread out across the sites of several dozen affiliate programs. If one of them screws me hard enough, I drop them and find others that are less likely to screw their affiliates.

It's as simple as that.

If a program wants to keep their good loyal affiliates and their good name, they will make efforts to preserve rebills, and direct my traffic to another site so I'm not wasting it or having it outright stolen from me. And they will notify me.

The better affiliate programs know this.

[Tom_PM]

I think sponsor programs are basically private sites, not beholden to stockholders etc.. so they CAN just shut down and theres nothing we can do about it. But it's always nice to get an email, a notice posted when you log in etc. That way you have a chance to run a script and find all of your old links and pages and update them. It's a ton harder if you only use sponsor content obviously, because as soon as they are gone, so are your legal rights to use the content I think.
Yet another reason to always buy your own content.

[Nicky]

Depends on the circumstances

[jscott]

Originally Posted by CDSmith

I addressed this in post #12 of this thread.

I have always had my traffic spread out across the sites of several dozen affiliate programs. If one of them screws me hard enough, I drop them and find others that are less likely to screw their affiliates.

It's as simple as that.

If a program wants to keep their good loyal affiliates and their good name, they will make efforts to preserve rebills, and direct my traffic to another site so I'm not wasting it or having it outright stolen from me. And they will notify me.

The better affiliate programs know this.

CDSmith, i do the same thing as you, spread my traffic across hundreds of affiliate programs also, and even tho when sites shut down i am not pissed off so much from the $$$ i lose (tho i'm defiantely not happy) but i just wish the sponsor would try harder to think of the affiliates losses to try as hard as possible to keep the site open, to keep the possible rebills coming in etc etc

some ppl i know are really quick on the closing of sites......it's like if a model says i want my pics off the site, some owners are like "awww i'm so sorry, yea i'll take them off right away, let me know if i can rub your feet"

and not even care to think about affiliates and what we will lose

[Peaches]

There are a lot of times big programs close down sites. WEG closing down Purecash, ARS closing down a lot of thier niche sites are just two examples off the top of my head.

In both cases, codes were good for several months giving people plenty of time to change links. Even after they weren't going to the site closed, they would go to a different site w/in the program so if the webmaster didn't have the sense to change their links after several months, they STILL had some bonus time.

This is a business. Businesses remove products all the time.

[CDSmith]

The point of this thread is a PRIME example of why it is such a bad idea to put all your eggs in one basket.

From day one (back in '98) I chose multiple sponsors to send hits to, and as my business grew so did the stable of good sponsors.

I now send small to medium amounts of traffic to over 30 sponsors, and if any one of them craps out on me in some way, closes up shop or what-have-you, it doesn't hurt my overall business much at all.

If you're sending 90% of your traffic to sponsor A and relying on them for virtually ALL your income, and tomorrow they decide to close up shop you are screwed, period.

But if you are sending 100% of your traffic to 20 different sponsors (about 5% to each one) and recieving 20 smaller paycheques, if any one particular program craps out on you it doesn't hurt you near as much. Those sponsors are easily replaced as well.

Granted, no sponsor out there will ever consider you a "whale", but I can live with that. I do pretty okay for a non-whale, I'm loyal to those programs good enough to have earned it, and am in this biz for the long haul rather than the quick score.

[SilentKnight]

Originally Posted by jscott

I see many MANY more sites closing nowdays compared to a year ago......what do you consider your losses as an affiliate to be and how unprofessional would you consider this?

Some people i know think it's totally fine, open a site, it doesnt work out, shut it down, they think in no way that is fucking over an affiliate.........and some even think it's none of the affiliates business to question why a site of theirs closed, or even think that we affiliates have no right to even question, critique or complain when they have a site that shuts down, even after we have promoted it for a while, sometimes years

whats your take on this?

As long as the webmasters pays up on affiliate revenues before closing, then its all just a business decision on their part. While it would suck to be losing that affiliate revenue, you can also look at it from the 'glass half full' perspective and be thankful you had the opportunity for a while to make some money from them.

Businesses close shop all the time...its just the way things go. They're not obligated to explain why. Its only a bad business practice if you close the sites and fail to pay affiliates remaining monies owed.

My

[jscott]

open paysite, no offer affiliate program, do what ya want with it, open it close it, have fun with it, fuck it, piss on it, do whatever

open paysite offer affiliate program, please try your best to keep it opened, please consider your partners/affiliates, please put a fight up at least to keep site opened for ever (at least TRY)

[CDSmith]

Good thread though.

Possibly some paysite owner or person about to fire up a new program will actually learn something positive from it.

That can't be a bad thing.

[jscott]

Originally Posted by CDSmith

Good thread though.

Possibly some paysite owner or person about to fire up a new program will actually learn something positive from it.

That can't be a bad thing.

thanks man, yea i just like to pound it in paysite owners heads that a LOT of us affiliates actually do care about losing out when sites close.........even tho nobody ever speaks up about it

WE DO CARE! (or at least i do lol!)

[DutchTeenCash]

mornin jscott

bad biz imho, we never shut down, and imho if a prg owner does at least redirect with the cookie to another site within the prg

[Rochard]

Programs don't want to make announcements telling everyone a site was closed - Most sites are closed because they failed and no one wants to buck up and made a mistake.

If programs redirect the traffic then it's fine.

[jscott]

Originally Posted by thinkx

mornin jscott

hey man

Originally Posted by Rochard

Programs don't want to make announcements telling everyone a site was closed - Most sites are closed because they failed and no one wants to buck up and made a mistake.

If programs redirect the traffic then it's fine.

thats fair enough, but still they should let affiliates know even about that

[Pandemos]

I have my affiliate revenue spread over a few hundred sites so if one closes, it doesn't really matter that much to me. What does piss me off is when the site owner doesn't bother notifying the affiliates. That should just be common courtesy, but most don't bother.

[gdog]

My 2 cents on this is everyone wants to be in the porn business, everyone thinks they have an idea that will make a killing. So they launch this great site, the spend a ton of money with content, they payout ridiculously high payouts to webmasters (who 99% are just as greedy and will switch their traffic in a heart beat to whomever is paying the most that day), then the site makes money for a month or 3, they stop spending money to update the site, the retention falls in the toilet, they stop making the money and they close down.

That process used to be about 2 years to 2 and half years, now its down to about a year it seems.

I feel the pay per sign up model is to blame alot for this, with a partnership model they are your partners for the life of the customer, with this model everyone makes good money but webmasters want more than that. How many of these new sites even have a real site, they are just a ton of pics and videos shot about this brilliant idea and really for how long can I member jerk off to it. In the old days sites like Carol Cox, Danni, Busty Amateurs, Jenna Jameson, ALS Scans, Karups ruled the world. Each one of these sites develop a relationship with the surfer that they recur forever. The new sites today are micro niching on a big niche and the surfer just has to much variety that they now have no loyalty. In all reality a surfer can buy trial after trial, download all the content to their computer, and jerf off in piece and quiet and not get billed each month.

OK, time to get back to work and get some updates done. I think this year we are going to see more companies fall by the way side to when you sign up for an affiliate program you should do some research on the company first before you spend all your time putting pages on the web promoting them and a year from now your links don't work anymore.

G

[After Shock Media]

If every site was always a success I personally know I would be working a lot less and have a whole office of people cranking them out for me on a daily basis, we however know this not to be true. Failures happen and that is just a part of business. Sometimes it seems as if the demand is there, the traffic is available, everything seems to be in place and then when the site is launched it just falls on its ass. No real rhyme or reason, it just did not perform. This is true of big programs and small ones, just the bigger programs have the luxury of getting more people envolved from day one.

Now personally I would rather see someone tell me hey this site just did not make it and we are pulling the plug. Then to have someone just leave it up, do nothing with it ever again and still allow people to throw traffic at it. When they know all to damn well that they plan on never updating it again and just letting it sit. That really pisses me off.

[jscott]

Originally Posted by gdog

My 2 cents on this is everyone wants to be in the porn business, everyone thinks they have an idea that will make a killing. So they launch this great site, the spend a ton of money with content, they payout ridiculously high payouts to webmasters (who 99% are just as greedy and will switch their traffic in a heart beat to whomever is paying the most that day), then the site makes money for a month or 3, they stop spending money to update the site, the retention falls in the toilet, they stop making the money and they close down.

That process used to be about 2 years to 2 and half years, now its down to about a year it seems.

I feel the pay per sign up model is to blame alot for this, with a partnership model they are your partners for the life of the customer, with this model everyone makes good money but webmasters want more than that. How many of these new sites even have a real site, they are just a ton of pics and videos shot about this brilliant idea and really for how long can I member jerk off to it. In the old days sites like Carol Cox, Danni, Busty Amateurs, Jenna Jameson, ALS Scans, Karups ruled the world. Each one of these sites develop a relationship with the surfer that they recur forever. The new sites today are micro niching on a big niche and the surfer just has to much variety that they now have no loyalty. In all reality a surfer can buy trial after trial, download all the content to their computer, and jerf off in piece and quiet and not get billed each month.

OK, time to get back to work and get some updates done. I think this year we are going to see more companies fall by the way side to when you sign up for an affiliate program you should do some research on the company first before you spend all your time putting pages on the web promoting them and a year from now your links don't work anymore.

G

great post, and totally true