This post deserved its own thread (SEO Related)

[Young]

Originally Posted by fr0gman

The relationship between SEO?s and SE? is just like the relationship between Blackjack card counters and the casinos. The casinos and law enforcement agree that card counting is not cheating, but if you get caught counting cards in a major casino you will be banned. The same thing applies to black-hat SEO. It is simply an act of using the system that the SEs created yet if you get caught ?using their system? to its maximum advantage you run the risk of getting banned. This is a risk that the card counters and the SEO takes and because the ?big boys? created the game they can decide who wins and who is not allowed to play.

For an average Joe-on-the-street to blow the whistle on someone for moving within the framework created by the ?system? is unconscionable. Why would you report someone for using the system as it was designed? Doing so would be the equivalent of making a personal decision that 45 MPH is as fast as you are comfortable driving then complaining about everyone that drives the speed limit.

If you see that others have achieved a level of success that you envy do not seek to undermine their success by reporting them as ?cheaters?. Do you homework and develop a better method for success. For as we all know, there are two ways to have the tallest building in town. One way is to build a taller building then your neighbors, and the other way is to tear all the other buildings down.

Learn to build.

Now stop your whining and snitching.

[Basic_man]

I agree. You can use the system.. but don't get caught :D

[sfera]

"the system" lol

[MrIzzz]

fr0gman makes a very good point very eloquently in that quote

[suesheboy]

If you cheat, you derserve to get caught. There is tons you can do that is white hat and it works - not overnight.

So what is cheating? Googles rules state:


Quality Guidelines - Basic principles:

* Make pages for users, not for search engines. Don't deceive your users or present different content to search engines than you display to users, which is commonly referred to as "cloaking."
* Avoid tricks intended to improve search engine rankings. A good rule of thumb is whether you'd feel comfortable explaining what you've done to a website that competes with you. Another useful test is to ask, "Does this help my users? Would I do this if search engines didn't exist?"
* Don't participate in link schemes designed to increase your site's ranking or PageRank. In particular, avoid links to web spammers or "bad neighborhoods" on the web, as your own ranking may be affected adversely by those links.
* Don't use unauthorized computer programs to submit pages, check rankings, etc. Such programs consume computing resources and violate our Terms of Service. Google does not recommend the use of products such as WebPosition Goldhahaha8482; that send automatic or programmatic queries to Google.

Quality Guidelines - Specific recommendations:

* Avoid hidden text or hidden links.
* Don't employ cloaking or sneaky redirects.
* Don't send automated queries to Google.
* Don't load pages with irrelevant words.
* Don't create multiple pages, subdomains, or domains with substantially duplicate content.
* Avoid "doorway" pages created just for search engines, or other "cookie cutter" approaches such as affiliate programs with little or no original content.

These quality guidelines cover the most common forms of deceptive or manipulative behavior, but Google may respond negatively to other misleading practices not listed here (e.g. tricking users by registering misspellings of well-known websites). It's not safe to assume that just because a specific deceptive technique isn't included on this page, Google approves of it. Webmasters who spend their energies upholding the spirit of the basic principles listed above will provide a much better user experience and subsequently enjoy better ranking than those who spend their time looking for loopholes they can exploit.

If you believe that another site is abusing Google's quality guidelines, please report that site at http://www.google.com/contact/spamreport.html. Google prefers developing scalable and automated solutions to problems, so we attempt to minimize hand-to-hand spam fighting. The spam reports we receive are used to create scalable algorithms that recognize and block future spam attempts.

[RawAlex]

If you build a better site, and get better SEO results than me because you understand better, I bow down to your skill.

If you got ahead by using other people's code, site names, urls, and meta tags and stole your way to the top, I will do whatever I can to get your listings removed from every SE in the world.

There is nothing anyone can say that makes being a fucking thief into a good thing - not even George W Bush.

Alex

[ssp]

Learn to build / learn to tear all the other buildings down

=

same thing

[SmokeyTheBear]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

If you build a better site, and get better SEO results than me because you understand better, I bow down to your skill.

If you got ahead by using other people's code, site names, urls, and meta tags and stole your way to the top, I will do whatever I can to get your listings removed from every SE in the world.

There is nothing anyone can say that makes being a fucking thief into a good thing - not even George W Bush.

Alex

2 totally different things.. i somewhat agree and was peeved when i noticed this happening , but those guys arent any different than google.. google collects the same info and uses it without direct permission.. so how is that different than a guy who creates a program to spider and cache your contents and redisplays them ( even if his reason is to get google rank )

and furthermore google wont remove those sites without a dmca unless you happen to get supremely lucky.. ill show you an example..

[RawAlex]

Smokey, quite simple really: Google caches content only as a part and parcel of their job as a search engine. Dumbasses use the content and use it to fill pages to mislead or misdirect surfers, hoping to get them to click onto their banner farm, redirect, virus infection site, or console hell. They have no intention of delivering the surfer to the site they are looking for.

Google removed those sites daily, no problem. If the content presented to google was different from what a surfer would get (redirect) or a significant part of the pages are "unlinked links" attempting to fill google with useless pages, well, they get shitcanned pretty much directly. Google doesn't like spam, and doesn't like sites created to trick them into giving artificial high listings.

The only things that they will not remove are the sites that have valid and correct links to other pages on them in the format of a search engine result or link site. However, they will take action if the links on the page are obviously not in keeping with the title and tags of the page, or if there are thousands of pages on the same domain that are misleading or incorrect.

Alex

[Nicky]

Some good info and dialog in this thread

[fr0gman]

Originally Posted by ssp

Learn to build / learn to tear all the other buildings down

=

same thing

Speak in English and not in code. I have no clue what you said.

[2HousePlague]

Be BOTH user-good and spider-good, anything else is an outlaw and will be persecuted --





2hp

[baddog]

gray hat

[nico-t]

snitches are dickless.

[ssp]

Originally Posted by fr0gman

Speak in English and not in code. I have no clue what you said.

learn to read. (= not that difficult)

[chadglni]

Originally Posted by suesheboy

[b]If you cheat, you derserve to get caught. There is tons you can do that is white hat and it works - not overnight.

The Google Services are made available for your personal, non-commercial use only. You may not use the Google Services to sell a product or service, or to increase traffic to your Web site for commercial reasons, such as advertising sales.


I sure hope you aren't making money on your site Mr. White Hat.

[SmokeyTheBear]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

Smokey, quite simple really: Google caches content only as a part and parcel of their job as a search engine. Dumbasses use the content and use it to fill pages to mislead or misdirect surfers, hoping to get them to click onto their banner farm, redirect, virus infection site, or console hell. They have no intention of delivering the surfer to the site they are looking for.
Alex

by the same token the site that caches your text etc is the same thing , a search engine that cooalates your info thats part of their job, sometimes they are relevent sometimes they arent.. are you saying you would be pissed if they did the same thing but always had relevent information ?

Google does the same thing they PURPOSELY include these spam sites so that people will click on the adwords..

sites your talking about do the same exact thing.. no dofference other than the size of the company doing it to you..

[SmokeyTheBear]

Originally Posted by chadglni

The Google Services are made available for your personal, non-commercial use only. You may not use the Google Services to sell a product or service, or to increase traffic to your Web site for commercial reasons, such as advertising sales.


I sure hope you aren't making money on your site Mr. White Hat.

great quote.. everyone here is a blackhat..

[chadglni]

Originally Posted by SmokeyTheBear

great quote.. everyone here is a blackhat..

I wonder if he cares if me and a few dozen friends turn his sites in for manipulating google? Hell I can use his posts here as proof he is optimizing for profit.

[fr0gman]

Originally Posted by ssp

learn to read. (= not that difficult)

That's OK it is easy to see you didn't understand it any better than I did.

[Young]

According to Google's TOS even whitehats are violators.

So basically Google wants you to create content that is good for their surfers/searchers in order to present them with relevant ads.

but....

Conciously using keyword density..even in an appropriate way (Whitehat) that fits in with the content in the site is in violation of Google TOS.

[emthree]

Lynch the snitches.

[woj]

Great analogy, but what if your competitor was building a taller building by cutting corners, making the building unsafe perhaps, wouldn't you feel cheated then? I don't have a problem getting beaten in a fair competition, but getting beaten by unethical competitor would piss me off.

[DatingGold]

Originally Posted by Basic_man

I agree. You can use the system.. but don't get caught :D