For the Next Hour I'll answer your questions about TGP GALLERY SUBMITTING

[$5 submissions]

Webmasterlabor.com used to do $5 manual submissions for galleries back in 2003 and early 2004. While quite a bit of the submitting game has changed to a 'pay to play' model, there were still some elements in basic submissions that remain unchanged. Ask away.

[DamageX]

What's a TGP?

[Pryda]

What does the perfect TGP gallery look like?

[Dirty F]

Is there money in tgping?

[$5 submissions]

Originally Posted by DamageX

What's a TGP?

Thumbnail Gallery Post. Definition is at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thumbnail_gallery_post (Try to fight the urge to enter in a definition that includes your url It will be deleted)

[DamageX]

Originally Posted by Pryda

What does the perfect TGP gallery look like?

No such thing.

Gene, you should stop by my URL.

[$5 submissions]

Originally Posted by Pryda

What does the perfect TGP gallery look like?

We've handled thousands of galleries during our submission days. My opinion is not meant to be SUPER AUTHORITATIVE--there are other opinions out there and there are more experienced webmasters out there. Take this with a grain of salt.

The short answer: There is no magic formula per se. Conversion depends on many factors. Here is a short list of the variables:

1) Quality of Content. Content is still king. Traffic may be the EMPEROR but content is king. Crappy content + kick ass traffic = money but not as much money as kick ass content + kick ass traffic.

2) Quality of layout. The layout and 'design' can sometimes be overly hyped as the 'secret ingredient' to submitting. It isn't. That's like getting excited over the shape of the spoon and neglecting the quality of the food or the preferences of the person eating the food or the ambience of the restaurant. Regardless, layout is still a factor. It is part of the overall "delivery mechanism" for the content. To that extent, it should SHARPEN the focus of delivery not thwart or dilute its impact.

3) Quality of Text. This factor is very much neglected and underappreciated. Text and Content work together. The Content is the draw. The text is the framing that directs the consumption of the content. It directs and instructs the surfer as to what to do next or how to interpret the content. It also sets the credibility of the site being advertised by answering the following questions:

a. Will there be more of this type of content in the site you are recommending?
b. Does the site KNOW the niche it claims to possess?
c. What does the surfer need to do to get more of this type of content?
d. What can the surfer expect in terms of service, content, and logistics (i.e, will the videos load quickly, any restricitions, etc)
e. Niche-specific questions

4) Conformance with the site being advertised. A gallery IS a bite-sized sample of a site being recommended. Nothing more nothing less. It is a free 'demo'. Hence, optimization done for conversion at the paysite design level should also influence the gallery pages pushing it. In particular, is there CONSISTENCY of message? Is there a SHARP difference in terms of experience between a gallery and its sponsor site?

5) How well does the sample thumbs represent the content?

6) How well does the sample thumb (to be placed on the TGP) represent the gallery it links to?

7) How well does the text description accurately describe the gallery? Does it contain enough textual clues as to tease and get the surfer's atention?

8) Do the content selected for the galleries tell a story? Does it tell it in the way that fans of the niche the gallery is pushing will appreciate and respond to?

9) The quality of the traffic of the TGPs the gallery gets listed on. Are the galleries customized for traffic/clicking behavior of certain specific TGPs?

10) This is just a partial list but there's tons more, I'm sure.

One thing is clear. TGP subs, while some parts can be rationalized and put on a spread sheet and analyzed using statistical tools, is largely still more ART than SCIENCE. There's a huge number of variables. Whoever figures out a way to RATIONALIZE this form of advertising (as much as possible and allowing for manual inputs/tweaking) stands to make a LOT OF MONEY. That's for sure.

[JD]

where can I find a list of TGP/MGPs that don't require a fucking partner account to be able to submit.

[Pryda]

That's a nice and informative answer, thanks !

[$5 submissions]

Originally Posted by Franck

Is there money in tgping?

The short answer is, contrary to what some people say, is YES. YES IF you submit the right niche galleries to the sites that have surfers that are interested in that niche. This, of course, requires a lot of experimentation. Once you've found the sites that respond well, you'll then have to tweak your galleries/content selection policy to tweak the conversions even further.

Another way players in this space make money is VOLUME submitting. Finetuning may be great but it takes a lot of time, effort, patience, and strategizing. The other approach would be to submit submit submit.

Just like in any business, there's an ROI curve. Depending on how proactive you are in finetuning and tweaking your galleries, content base, and submission list, it can take some time and patience to get a decent ROI.

[pornguy]

Originally Posted by SPeRMiNaToR

where can I find a list of TGP/MGPs that don't require a fucking partner account to be able to submit.

just buy a copy of someons db.



I might know someone with one for 150$

[JD]

Originally Posted by pornguy

just buy a copy of someons db.



I might know someone with one for 150$

I have the DB that comes with advanced submitter but I'm looking to build one that not everyone and their brother is submitting to

[$5 submissions]

Originally Posted by SPeRMiNaToR

where can I find a list of TGP/MGPs that don't require a fucking partner account to be able to submit.

Unfortunately, many mid-sized and larger tgps/mgps require partner accounts for submissions due to the amount of cheaters, botters, multisubmitters, etc. Many now charge for accounts.

To get a fresh list going, I suggest checking out choker's database of tgps at http://findtrades.com/ he lists those who take submissions with a submit url. Check each one if the submit is open and add them to your list. FOLLOW their niche requirements or you'll just be wasting your time. You can also find TGPs by manually "spidering" the recips of galleries listed in many TGPs. Again, you have to filter out the open subs from the closed/paid subs.

[$5 submissions]

Originally Posted by SPeRMiNaToR

I have the DB that comes with advanced submitter but I'm looking to build one that not everyone and their brother is submitting to

Exactly. It's best to start with a fresh list.

Another tip: there's a misconception that BIGGER VOLUME is necessarily better. This may be true for some webmasters but for webmasters that are looking for a higher ROI while investing less resources the solution lies elsewhere. The time/patience spent on finding the right niche sites and building the right niche marketing materials would be well spent.

[$5 submissions]

Originally Posted by DamageX

No such thing.

Gene, you should stop by my URL.

Damage X, I did. Your site is right on the money regarding:

" This industry is full of talented designers. Many of them will create the most amazing, artistic, flashy designs. They will catch your eye and leave you in awe. However, how many of them will actually get you the clicks you need? Like it or not, the fanciest of designs is worth absolutely nothing, if it doesn't fulfill its most basic requirement, namely to make your visitors click where you want them to. This is where we come in."

You have a clear understanding of the primary role of design... it is the spoon not the food. The focus must be on the food. The designer must know this in order to make the whole gallery enterprise worth doing.

Good stuff, Damage X

[stereolab]

do you think that an easy-to-use "RSS-to-html" script could be a better way for publishers to display dynamic daily galleries? i see some sponsors playing with RSS right now, (dating gold, spookycash), but it's still not a big movement. where do you see RSS in the adult / tgp / blogging / FHG world?

[$5 submissions]

Originally Posted by stereolab

do you think that an easy-to-use "RSS-to-html" script could be a better way for publishers to display dynamic daily galleries? i see some sponsors playing with RSS right now, (dating gold, spookycash), but it's still not a big movement. where do you see RSS in the adult / tgp / blogging / FHG world?

Very good question, stereolab. BTW, congrats on being one of the first movers in the adult RSS feed aggregation model.

I see it being huge in the future. It is a great delivery mechanism and saves the webmaster a lot of time and effort if he has the right import scripts and CMS on his site.

[DamageX]

Originally Posted by $5 submissions

Damage X, I did. Your site is right on the money regarding:

" This industry is full of talented designers. Many of them will create the most amazing, artistic, flashy designs. They will catch your eye and leave you in awe. However, how many of them will actually get you the clicks you need? Like it or not, the fanciest of designs is worth absolutely nothing, if it doesn't fulfill its most basic requirement, namely to make your visitors click where you want them to. This is where we come in."

You have a clear understanding of the primary role of design... it is the spoon not the food. The focus must be on the food. The designer must know this in order to make the whole gallery enterprise worth doing.

Good stuff, Damage X

Hehe, what a bit of miscommunication can lead to. Yep, I've been making a living out of making surfers click where I want them to. However, in this case I was actually referring to another URL of mine you should've visited. The board I mentioned to you a couple of months ago.

[$5 submissions]

Originally Posted by DamageX

Hehe, what a bit of miscommunication can lead to. Yep, I've been making a living out of making surfers click where I want them to. However, in this case I was actually referring to another URL of mine you should've visited. The board I mentioned to you a couple of months ago.

It's slipped my mind. Email it to me, chief

[DWB]

Good thread.

[$5 submissions]

Originally Posted by DirtyWhiteBoy

Good thread.

Thanks, DWB

[$5 submissions]

Hour's up, any other questions?

[$5 submissions]

Okay, done deal. I'm out. Thanks for all the cool questions.

[Series]

Originally Posted by $5 submissions

Another tip: there's a misconception that BIGGER VOLUME is necessarily better. This may be true for some webmasters but for webmasters that are looking for a higher ROI while investing less resources the solution lies elsewhere. The time/patience spent on finding the right niche sites and building the right niche marketing materials would be well spent.

Good tip

Also, I see a lot of people only caring about how many hits the tgp gets, not how many hits are actually sent to galleries or what countries those people are from... not the best logic imo

[fishball]

Ang galing ng thread mo, kamusta na?

[Jaymus.]

What do you think is the best autosubmitter available right now?

[rowan]

Originally Posted by $5 submissions

To get a fresh list going, I suggest checking out choker's database of tgps at http://findtrades.com/ he lists those who take submissions with a submit url. Check each one if the submit is open and add them to your list.

I wouldn't really call this "fresh" - some sites haven't been updated on findtrades for 2-3 years (I'm guilty of this myself). I bet you'll find a lot of sites have converted to FHG or paid submissions only.

[hjnet]

Originally Posted by SPeRMiNaToR

I have the DB that comes with advanced submitter but I'm looking to build one that not everyone and their brother is submitting to

I don't know if you're already using one of the DBs at http://updates.advancedsubmitter.com, but if so I'd suggest that you work through the "Only Partner" Submission types once every 1-2 months, that normalwise alwasy gives ~10-50 new partner accounts (depends how many you already have).

And if the submission process takes too long you could sort your submission list (weight feature of AS) according to your traffic stats, with the highest traffic sites on the Top of your list. That way you'd just have to submit to the most important ones if you have a busy day :-)

And take care of the next update (MGP ~ end of Jan06; TGP ~Feb-Mar06), it will be a huge one cause I'm going to add ~1500-1600 new sites.

[kmanrox]

is it better to use crisco or astroglide for getting anally fisted? and is a glove REALLY necessary?

[$5 submissions]

Originally Posted by Jaymus.

What do you think is the best autosubmitter available right now?

Manual is the best. This allows you to give each submission the proper attention it deserves and correct/optimize at the same time.

[DickShoke]

Originally Posted by $5 submissions

Manual is the best. This allows you to give each submission the proper attention it deserves and correct/optimize at the same time.

we know manual submission is the best..but if you had to choose one autosumbitter what would it be!!!!!!

[$5 submissions]

Originally Posted by DickShoke

we know manual submission is the best..but if you had to choose one autosumbitter what would it be!!!!!!

LOL Advanced Submitter

[ronbotx]

What is the best way to get more traffic, without dropping a big load of cash on partner accounts or paid spots.

[DamageX]

Originally Posted by ronbotx

What is the best way to get more traffic, without dropping a big load of cash on partner accounts or paid spots.

Stand on a busy highway holding a big-ass sign with your URL on it.

[Halcyon]

Great answers!

Is there a way to sample the tgp world (outsource maybe?) without having to learn it's ins and outs? I.e. I'm not sure if our site would work with traditional niches or TGP traffic. But I don't want to have to learn about gallery making / submitting / etc.

I suppose buying spots?

[woj]

What's the most one can make submitting galleries? Assuming you have a lot of experience and know exactly what you are doing... 100k? 200k? 500k? more?

[Nismo]

Originally Posted by woj

What's the most one can make submitting galleries? Assuming you have a lot of experience and know exactly what you are doing... 100k? 200k? 500k? more?

What kind of question is that? Why do you assume there is a limit?

You can make as much as you want to. It's all about content and traffic. There are a few other factors that come into play, but you have to figure out those by yourself.

[DamageX]

Originally Posted by Halcyon

Great answers!

Is there a way to sample the tgp world (outsource maybe?) without having to learn it's ins and outs? I.e. I'm not sure if our site would work with traditional niches or TGP traffic. But I don't want to have to learn about gallery making / submitting / etc.

I suppose buying spots?

If you don't know what you're doing, buying spots will put a nice hole in your pocket.

[hjnet]

Originally Posted by Halcyon

Is there a way to sample the tgp world (outsource maybe?) without having to learn it's ins and outs? I.e. I'm not sure if our site would work with traditional niches or TGP traffic. But I don't want to have to learn about gallery making / submitting / etc.

I suppose buying spots?

I hope $5 allows me to answer too

If you want to outsource your submissions without any knowlege about it you'll actually face two problems:

-It could be that you find a submitter who knows enough about submitting, and delivers great work for a cheap enough price to let you have your ROI. Unfortunately it doesn't take long until these submitters get it that they could actually make a lot more $ if they just submit their own galleries.

-Or you find a cheap submitter without much knowlege, but you'd end up with crappy submissions (Here it would be important to teach him with your own knowlege, to turn that into good submissions).

But as a affiliate program you could i.e. try to work with a few dedicated Affiliates (outsource the work to your affiliates). I'm pretty sure you'd find a few gallery submitters that would like to work with your program if you offer them a slightly higher payout, or a mixture of fixed salary and refshare. And all tools they might need for content and maybe gallery templates, etc. That would also make your program more interesting for other submitters, so you'd gain a lot for just a higher % payout for some of your partners.

[$5 submissions]

Feel free to post answers to the questions, guys. Fellow submitters, go ahead and post your tips, insights, and experiences. My original "hour" was up some time ago

[clickhappy]

whats a good free email I can use that will be accepted by the reviewers?
I have some sponsors who will host my galleries for free if I promote them, but they dont proovide emails.
So I assume if I submit using a hotmail or yahoo email Ill never get listen.
is there a free email I can use that will get listed?

and does it matter that my email address wont match the domain name that my sponsor is hosting my galleries on?

[DamageX]

Originally Posted by clickhappy

whats a good free email I can use that will be accepted by the reviewers?
I have some sponsors who will host my galleries for free if I promote them, but they dont proovide emails.
So I assume if I submit using a hotmail or yahoo email Ill never get listen.
is there a free email I can use that will get listed?

and does it matter that my email address wont match the domain name that my sponsor is hosting my galleries on?

Try some odd ones, which don't look like free addies. Search Google for "free e-mail account" I bet you'll find a ton.

[Halcyon]

Originally Posted by $5 submissions

We've handled thousands of galleries during our submission days. My opinion is not meant to be SUPER AUTHORITATIVE--there are other opinions out there and there are more experienced webmasters out there. Take this with a grain of salt.

The short answer: There is no magic formula per se. Conversion depends on many factors. Here is a short list of the variables:

1) Quality of Content. Content is still king. Traffic may be the EMPEROR but content is king. Crappy content + kick ass traffic = money but not as much money as kick ass content + kick ass traffic.

2) Quality of layout. The layout and 'design' can sometimes be overly hyped as the 'secret ingredient' to submitting. It isn't. That's like getting excited over the shape of the spoon and neglecting the quality of the food or the preferences of the person eating the food or the ambience of the restaurant. Regardless, layout is still a factor. It is part of the overall "delivery mechanism" for the content. To that extent, it should SHARPEN the focus of delivery not thwart or dilute its impact.

3) Quality of Text. This factor is very much neglected and underappreciated. Text and Content work together. The Content is the draw. The text is the framing that directs the consumption of the content. It directs and instructs the surfer as to what to do next or how to interpret the content. It also sets the credibility of the site being advertised by answering the following questions:

a. Will there be more of this type of content in the site you are recommending?
b. Does the site KNOW the niche it claims to possess?
c. What does the surfer need to do to get more of this type of content?
d. What can the surfer expect in terms of service, content, and logistics (i.e, will the videos load quickly, any restricitions, etc)
e. Niche-specific questions

4) Conformance with the site being advertised. A gallery IS a bite-sized sample of a site being recommended. Nothing more nothing less. It is a free 'demo'. Hence, optimization done for conversion at the paysite design level should also influence the gallery pages pushing it. In particular, is there CONSISTENCY of message? Is there a SHARP difference in terms of experience between a gallery and its sponsor site?

5) How well does the sample thumbs represent the content?

6) How well does the sample thumb (to be placed on the TGP) represent the gallery it links to?

7) How well does the text description accurately describe the gallery? Does it contain enough textual clues as to tease and get the surfer's atention?

8) Do the content selected for the galleries tell a story? Does it tell it in the way that fans of the niche the gallery is pushing will appreciate and respond to?

9) The quality of the traffic of the TGPs the gallery gets listed on. Are the galleries customized for traffic/clicking behavior of certain specific TGPs?

10) This is just a partial list but there's tons more, I'm sure.

One thing is clear. TGP subs, while some parts can be rationalized and put on a spread sheet and analyzed using statistical tools, is largely still more ART than SCIENCE. There's a huge number of variables. Whoever figures out a way to RATIONALIZE this form of advertising (as much as possible and allowing for manual inputs/tweaking) stands to make a LOT OF MONEY. That's for sure.

just bumping to re-read...