this just in - mastercard to stop third-party transactions - GoFuckYourself.com

pr0view · 04-19-2002, 09:46 AM

shitty news...

Lensman · 04-19-2002, 09:50 AM

I would like to see what the billing companies are saying about this.

kmanrox · 04-19-2002, 09:51 AM

not good

kmanrox · 04-19-2002, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lensman
I would like to see what the billing companies are saying about this.

you dont do any signups anyhow, do ya?

[Labret] · 04-19-2002, 09:53 AM

christ...

Wizzo · 04-19-2002, 09:53 AM

That could Really suck, but I don't think it's time for the fat lady to sing...yet!

Gary · 04-19-2002, 09:59 AM

Hmmmmmmmmm...not good.

Dualcpu · 04-19-2002, 10:00 AM

Sounds bad.

Although they did not specify in detail who would be affected.

Gramma · 04-19-2002, 10:11 AM

I don't think it refers to like ibill, jettis, etc - I wrote and asked my processor, and they told me that it would not affect me at all (jettis) .. this was like 2 weeks ago when I first heard about this.

Got Funky Spunk?

Oh no .. not you .. Well, your surfers do! Get more blowjobs with Semenex

pr0view · 04-19-2002, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gramma
I don't think it refers to like ibill, jettis, etc - I wrote and asked my processor, and they told me that it would not affect me at all (jettis) .. this was like 2 weeks ago when I first heard about this.

"...by stopping merchants from accepting credit card payments through third parties"

"on May 1 Internet merchants and other mom-and-pop firms that rely on third-party billing could miss out on sales via..."

"According to MasterCard, its 15,000 members, such as banks and credit unions, won't be able to process credit card transactions using third-party services..."

"The change is likely aimed at porn and gaming sites that have higher occurrences of credit card fraud and identity theft"

interesting how it won't affect ibill, globill, etc

Kimmykim · 04-19-2002, 10:22 AM

This just in!!!!! --

Beachfront land in Arizona for sale.

See how easy it is to take a bunch of sand and turn it into something that it's not????

Gramma, your processor gave you the correct answer

[Labret] · 04-19-2002, 10:23 AM

We are dooooomed.

This is what happens when we do not police ourselves. Someone else has to do it for us. You reap what you sow.

Gramma · 04-19-2002, 10:30 AM

I'm only reporting what I was told, not playing Chicken Little.
When I heard this originally, I believe from Netbilling on the Ynot Board, I wrote to whom I thought it would affect and whom I thought would have credible information, and asked for facts from them, instead of supposition from reading a news article that mentions Paypal and Ebay.

I was told on April 3:

"This MasterCard guideline will not affect Jettis aggregate
clients in any way.

Worry not. :-)"

But then of course, what would the internet be without rumors and scares

pr0view · 04-19-2002, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kimmykim
This just in!!!!! --
Beachfront land in Arizona for sale.

ya know, sometimes it's easier to give a simple answer then to use irony... but i guess that those 2500 posts on GFY changed your personality a bit

anyway, if that won't affect 3rd party processing (like ccbill, etc), i'll be more than happy...

but i'm still curious - the article says explicitly "banks and credit unions, won't be able to process credit card transactions using third-party services"... or do i miss sth?

pimpshost · 04-19-2002, 10:37 AM

PayPal is the way to go if this happens. They are going to be the only vaible thrid party solution, because of the way they have it set up. You cant stop PayPal.

Kimmykim · 04-19-2002, 10:43 AM

CCBill, IBill, Epoch, I believe Jettis and WSB, all fall under the PSP category now, which was adopted by Visa given the range of services and type of operations we run. We are highly regulated, even more so almost every month, and we also report to Visa (and soon to be Mastercard it appears) the URLS of all sites we process for, on a monthly basis, along with a credit/chargeback report against sales for each of those urls.

It would stand to reason that Mastercard, like Visa, wants to know who is using their card to accept payment for what, which is well within their rights as a company, and well within the mysterious and fluid agreements they have with merchant account holders.

A company like Paypal, on the other hand, runs a sort of 'virtual currency' service, which is a true aggregator and a factor on the sellers side as well. Paypal doesn't qualify to be a bank, has zero regulation on what is bought and sold with Paypal transfers at the moment (or at least no enforceable regulations) and holds an absolute shitload of consumers money in trust. Since this money is transferred as a purchase instead of a cash advance, banks not only lose out on the cash advance fee they could be charging, they also stand to be liable for that money if Paypal were to go under and consumers started asking for chargebacks.

I could go on a bit, but this is getting long as it is...

Wiredoctor · 04-19-2002, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kimmykim
This just in!!!!! --

Beachfront land in Arizona for sale.

See how easy it is to take a bunch of sand and turn it into something that it's not????

Gramma, your processor gave you the correct answer

KK, I agree it's not easy to believe any of this is going to happen very soon, but I wouldn't take it to lightly. With what just happened with the cc companies and the bestiality processing, it is clear that the CC companies are becoming concerned and aggressive in all the adult related charges on the web.

Just saying it is a concern, and a very important issue to be concerned with. The worst case senerio ramifications could be very damaging to the adult industry.

Uncle Vinny · 04-19-2002, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kimmykim
This just in!!!!! --

Beachfront land in Arizona for sale.

See how easy it is to take a bunch of sand and turn it into something that it's not????

Gramma, your processor gave you the correct answer

"The change would require those merchants to set up deals with banks so they could take MasterCard directly"

Am i correct to assume that processors such as ccbill, ibill, globill, etc. already have these deals set up with mastercard.
(or else how would they be accepting credit cards to begin with?)

cherrylula · 04-19-2002, 10:47 AM

I predict a big fucking-over from both mastercard and visa in the future... for us smut pedders that is.

I'm still waiting for an ADULT version of Paypal, and fuck big corporations. Now if someone just sold pre-paid cards, like a phone card, cept for porn sites... that would kick ass!!!!!!! Fuck mastercard and visa, I only use them because there are no better options right now.

There is nothing that pisses me off more than some fucking asshole corporation trying to tell consumers how they CANNOT spend their money. These companies (visa/mc) sure did not have any problems when they began processing for thing such as bestiality sites, and paypal. They turn their buck and then tell the adult sellers to bend over and spread. Fuckin sucks.

I doubt it would affect Ebay, cause they already pulled the same shit (made a bunch of money allowing people to sell shitty underwear then banned adult sales).

Ultimately Mastercard and Visa don't like the fact that the internet is REAL TIME, yet they keep shoving their fists up our asses by holding funds and overcharging merchants to use them. The internet is REAL TIME, when a guy buys a cam show he sure a fuck does not have to wait 2-3 days to get his show..... yet we all have to wait, wait, wait..... and the check's in the mail, blah blah...

Yeah, swipe your card and the cc people get their $ pretty damn fast, however you would think they would figure out how to get it into our bank accounts just as quick.... another entity fucking over the little guy.

Gramma · 04-19-2002, 10:48 AM

KimmyKim - you are the bomb diggity

pr0view · 04-19-2002, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kimmykim
CCBill, IBill, Epoch, I believe Jettis and WSB, all fall under the PSP category now, which was adopted by Visa given the range of services and type of operations we run. We are highly regulated, even more so almost every month, and we also report to Visa (and soon to be Mastercard it appears) the URLS of all sites we process for, on a monthly basis, along with a credit/chargeback report against sales for each of those urls.

It would stand to reason that Mastercard, like Visa, wants to know who is using their card to accept payment for what, which is well within their rights as a company, and well within the mysterious and fluid agreements they have with merchant account holders.

A company like Paypal, on the other hand, runs a sort of 'virtual currency' service, which is a true aggregator and a factor on the sellers side as well. Paypal doesn't qualify to be a bank, has zero regulation on what is bought and sold with Paypal transfers at the moment (or at least no enforceable regulations) and holds an absolute shitload of consumers money in trust. Since this money is transferred as a purchase instead of a cash advance, banks not only lose out on the cash advance fee they could be charging, they also stand to be liable for that money if Paypal were to go under and consumers started asking for chargebacks.

I could go on a bit, but this is getting long as it is...

ah, that's the story i wanted to hear

BrettJ's Pimp · 04-19-2002, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by pimpshost
PayPal is the way to go if this happens. They are going to be the only vaible thrid party solution, because of the way they have it set up. You cant stop PayPal.

actually .. paypal relies on Visa/MC too...

Dualcpu · 04-19-2002, 10:59 AM

My heart started beating again.

Kimmykim · 04-19-2002, 11:14 AM

wiredoctor --

For the record, no one that I know of in the processing industry takes Visa or Mastercard lightly, since that would be tantamount to slitting your wrists and laughing while the blood ran out.

Keep in mind that with the volumes of business that certain companies in the adult industry do, it's a neccessity to maintain good relationships with our issuing banks. Those banks do make a healthy profit off a well run adult account, the same as a well run non adult account. The key is well run, in the comparisons.

Visa and MC as a whole don't care about adult either way -- the estimate of adult being less than 1% of their total business is a good one, I'm sure. If they drop the business, they'll hardly notice it. The banks who do business with us, on the other hand, would notice it, so they of course want to keep *well run* accounts on their books.

We are advised of potential changes in policy well in advance of their actually becoming a change, and many times these changes when put to rule barely resemble what they started out to be. We meet with representatives from the cc's, people from our banks, etc. constantly, to clarify, request, and gauge the seriousness of the proposed changes, so that we can react in a timely and appropriate matter to what's coming down the pipe.

On a personal note, I love the convenience of Paypal. From a business standpoint, if I were a card issuing bank, I would hate them. They are a giant liability without the risk return that a liability usually brings from the card issuing bank standpoint. From a governmental standpoint, Paypal is a grey, unregulated area, one that is growing at a phenomenal rate, and whose issues are probably growing at the same rate.

cherrylula · 04-19-2002, 11:15 AM

<<<A company like Paypal, on the other hand, runs a sort of 'virtual currency' service>>>

The Internet = Virtual

I don't see anything wrong with using a "virtual currency" to charge for my "virtual internet site."
hehe.

I'm about to look into the pre-paid sex card thing myself, how tough could it be to actually do something like that?? Just got to find a company to make the cards, I'll even design them, and I'm gonna give "Le Sex Shoppe" a call and see if they will sell my little sex point cards. I've seen sites out there doing this already (damn I cannot remember the name), and have fantastic results.

Anybody know what I'm talking about?

Eric · 04-19-2002, 11:20 AM

I AIN'T HEARD NO FAT LADY!!! - Will Smith from Indpendence Day

Kimmykim · 04-19-2002, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by cherrylula
The Internet = Virtual

I don't see anything wrong with using a "virtual currency" to charge for my "virtual internet site."
hehe.

]

Virtual currency is all fine and dandy until a company that issues it goes belly up and banks are left to sort out millions of dollars in chargebacks from consumers who deposited their *real money* into those virtual accounts and want it back since they couldn't spend it.

The best thing that Paypal and other services like it can hope for is that their cc transactions become the same as a cash advance. The banks would be happy since they collect the additional fee and are relieved of any chargeback liability.

Not necessarily the best thing for the consumer, but then again the cc's aren't in this for the consumer, nor are the banks, and nor is Paypal...

Fletch XXX · 04-19-2002, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by pr0view

ya know, sometimes it's easier to give a simple answer then to use irony... but i guess that those 2500 posts on GFY changed your personality a bit

anyway, if that won't affect 3rd party processing (like ccbill, etc), i'll be more than happy...

but i'm still curious - the article says explicitly "banks and credit unions, won't be able to process credit card transactions using third-party services"... or do i miss sth?

Its in my experience that CC Bill as well as other third party billers shrug their shoulders until VISA/MC tells them what to do.

Its easier to dodge the question and play as if everythings cool until its too late...

Kimmykim · 04-19-2002, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fletch XXX

Its in my experience that CC Bill as well as other third party billers shrug their shoulders until VISA/MC tells them what to do.

Its easier to dodge the question and play as if everythings cool until its too late...

You're entitled to your opinion, and you're also entitled to believe what you read in the news.

AllisonWonderland · 04-19-2002, 12:17 PM

Here's somebody who came up with a prepaid card:

http://123prepaid.com/

ProgGod · 04-19-2002, 01:20 PM

Making paypal like a cash advance would be the WORST thing for paypal. Because most of their customer base would no longer want to use the service.

Besides what would you do for the debit cards with visa logos, which probably over half of the people that use paypal currently use.

Kimmykim · 04-19-2002, 01:27 PM

Keep in mind Preston -- neither Visa, MC nor the banks (other than the ones that issue Paypals merchant accounts to them) give a rats ass about Paypal or their clients.

They are under an obligation to protect themselves by whatever means they find necessary. The way it stands now, if -- and I am making a HYPOTHETICAL statement here ONLY -- Paypal, or any other similar company, were to go under, the card issuing banks would be facing multitudes of customers wanting to chargeback their PURCHASES at Paypal, something they wouldn't be able to do if Paypal were cash advance.

cherrylula · 04-19-2002, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AllisonWonderland
Here's somebody who came up with a prepaid card:

http://123prepaid.com/

Cool, thanks. I am hoping to further develop on this idea.

Lets say Joe Pornlover goes to his local Le Sex Shoppe, to buy make his regular purchase of his favorite smut mags. He sees a nifty little display with highly shiny and attractive, brightly colored little nudie girl cards, and he quickly picks one up for a closer look.

What he sees is some girls pic, a url, a little scratch off box like on a lottery ticket, and probably a $20 or more price tag for one month of access to my amateur girl website, which contains several live amateur girl sex shows, in addition to lot of other nifty things. I consider the fact that I will have to give a decent wholesale price to the sex store, because they will have to probably put their 200% markup on it. However, in addition to this being a great ANONYMOUS way for Joe Surfer to get into my website, he can keep the sexy little card in his wallet. The designs could even be seasonal (collect them all!). AND this would also knock out the problem of needing TRAFFIC, as it would also be great advertising.

Think about it: Some of the first companies to get on the internet porn bandwagon were or became affiliated with adult companies and put their url right on their movie boxcovers or in their magazines. Any seasoned adult webmaster knows that this is a GREAT way to get some serious traffic and memberships.

In addition to this, I want to mention that I am thinking on the AMATEUR level, because when you walk into an adult book store you mostly find mainstream porn, and I think selling access cards to AMATEUR girl sites would totally fucking kick ass.

Now my problem is finding a company to help me develop this idea. Is VISA and MASTERCARD going to stop processing sales at smut stores and adult bookstores/magazine stands across the us? I doubt it.

Like a pre paid phone card, but for porn sites. Gimmicky, cute, sexy, highly collectible, and a sweet anonymous access code to my site.

Damn, somebody help me on this one! I want to take this idea and RUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

iBill-Cathy · 04-20-2002, 07:29 AM

All, MasterCard is currently re-looking their rules and how they affect third part processors. The May 1st deadline will not apply to iBill. Your MasterCard transactions are safe. Please let me know if you have any additional concerns. I can be reached at [email protected].

bikinihouse · 04-20-2002, 07:36 AM

What else is next.....

LoveAsianChicks · 04-20-2002, 07:46 AM

Fuck Paypal - I've heard too much bad stuff about them. I hope they are screwed over.

NETbilling · 04-20-2002, 11:57 AM

Hi All,

Hopefully the new rules will not effect all 3rd party processors, depending on how they conduct business. However, I was at the Mastercard meeting in Orlando last week as was, Ibill, Jettis, WSB and things are not looking great at this point. I then spoke to one of the Mastercard VPs at their booth and they did tell me that they really do want each merchant to have their own merchant account, no B.S. He stated that the rules are now carved out but compliance extenesion would most likely be granted beyond May 1st.

This is what I was told from the horses mouth. However, things are likely to change as they often do.

Mitch / Netbilling

Cooler · 04-20-2002, 12:10 PM

This is the e-mail from globill.com I have received:

=================================

Hi,

To our knowledge, this change will not affect us. We will continue to gladly accept mastercard transactions worldwide.

Best Regards,
Wyatt
GloBill-Systems

==================================

Kimmykim · 04-20-2002, 12:40 PM

Gotta love you Mitch, keep on playing chicken little on the webmasters and maybe you'll get some business out of it.

As has been stated already, and not just by me, there is not going to be a change with processing Mastercard on May 1st for the majority of the companies that do business in adult.

Mastercard, just like Visa, wants to know who they are actually processing for. For the past few months, ALL Visa transactions are reported by url, along with the chargeback and credit ratios of those urls. Clients using PSPs like CCBill, Epoch, IBill, etc have not been in the least affected by this change, so far as the technical aspects of processing and thruput are concerned.

Website owners with chargebacks that are out of line with the allowable minimums should be working with their processors to identify and correct the problems as best they can, since at some point it would make sense for Visa, and probably Mastercard if they decide to implement the same system, to say that certain URLs are excluded from processing -- any processing, including own merchant account or PSP/third party as well.

If and when that does happen, it will be up to each PSP to notify affected clients, not to post about it on message boards.

NETbilling · 04-20-2002, 03:23 PM

Kimmy,

I am not playing anything. I am simply reporting what Mestercard directly stated at the ETA last week. Were you there? I was and everyone is concerned. I am not making up any stories, just reporting what I was told. You and I know that it probably will not happen May 1st. However, there is a genuine concern about the situation.

Mitch

jockboy60 · 04-20-2002, 07:23 PM

everyone better start looking for a real job........ looks like online porn is about to have the fate of other dot coms. Belly Up!! It was fun while it lasted.

-=HUNGRYMAN=- · 04-20-2002, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cherrylula
<<<A company like Paypal, on the other hand, runs a sort of 'virtual currency' service>>>

The Internet = Virtual

I don't see anything wrong with using a "virtual currency" to charge for my "virtual internet site."
hehe.

I'm about to look into the pre-paid sex card thing myself, how tough could it be to actually do something like that?? Just got to find a company to make the cards, I'll even design them, and I'm gonna give "Le Sex Shoppe" a call and see if they will sell my little sex point cards. I've seen sites out there doing this already (damn I cannot remember the name), and have fantastic results.

Anybody know what I'm talking about?

Offshore Clicks ??

-=HUNGRYMAN=- · 04-20-2002, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jockboy60
everyone better start looking for a real job........ looks like online porn is about to have the fate of other dot coms. Belly Up!! It was fun while it lasted.

Stop your crying you little BITCH !!

Do you really think that the BIG players of a $17 BILLION+ industry are just gonna stand by and watch this happen ???

GET FUCKING REAL !!!

I mean forget about us little guys making 6 figures or less a year ... The guys making HUGE bank in this busines wil not let their livelihood be pulled out from underneath them ... even if it meant several BIG players forming their own credit company, just so they could obtain the merchant account required to process ALL of our transactions ... and charge us a flat rate for using their merchant account ... I am not saying this is the answer ... but there are soooo many unxplored options at this point ...

Let me say it again ... The game is far from over ... only the rules to the game are changing.

heymatty · 04-20-2002, 08:57 PM

I am very sure mastercard and visa are somewhat interested in the branding issues when thier logo is placed on a join page.
But they are not complete idiots, they want to keep adult internet transactions, it must make them a ton. They just want to stay awayfrom the totally crazy stuff.

Recently there was a very big escort/prostitute ring bust here in Toronto. Basically the news said a lot of people were nervous because all their contect details were available from their credit card. It appears the payment of choice for escorts is a cc.

Not only are they processing escorts, the make bigmoney at strip clubs, on cigarettes, alcohol etc.

These companies can't afford big morals stands, but they can decide not to process horse fucking, young teen sites etc. Not processing legal porn surely would cost them big time. I would think they would rather work with a group of accountable processors to make sure it is a lucrative income source for them. This means dealing with companies that keep chargebacks within the acceptable tolerances and strictly monitor sites for illegal material.

I must say I am glad it appears my processor ccbill, is not scared at this time. I do worry a little that even Kimmy who makes the most convincing case as a processor is agreed that its a waiting game as to what the nest regulation is. Surely enough money is made in adult to actually negotiate with the cc's on a level not wait for dictact's.

jojojo · 04-20-2002, 09:17 PM

"Surely enough money is made in adult to actually negotiate with the cc's"

According to what someone said earlier - the online adult business is only 1-2% of M/C's overall revenue...

I agree with Hungryman though - with the amount of money being spent and made a solution will definitely be found/created.

SleazyDream · 04-20-2002, 09:18 PM

the sky is falling
the sky is falling

[Labret] · 04-20-2002, 10:08 PM

I bet nothing gives Mitch a bigger boner than the thought of the loss of third party processing.

Dax · 04-20-2002, 10:11 PM

Fuck CC and Fuck the surfer, because the cc companies are doing this, Im gonna implement a $9.99/min dialer.... Let's see them bitch NOW!!!

quiet · 04-20-2002, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by [Labret]
I bet nothing gives Mitch a bigger boner than the thought of the loss of third party processing.

:)

[Labret] · 04-20-2002, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by quiet

You know when he was at that meeting he was trying to convince Mastercard to pull the plug.

With friends like Mitch in this industry, who needs Ashcr0ft?

04-19-2002, 09:46 AM	#1
pr0view Confirmed User Join Date: May 2001 Location: Europe Posts: 270	this just in - mastercard to stop third-party transactions shitty news... __________________ Make your surfers happy on my bandwidth Need voyeur content (pictures and videos)? Hit me on ICQ 83581235 Last edited by pr0view; 04-19-2002 at 09:48 AM..

04-19-2002, 09:51 AM	#3
kmanrox aka K-Man Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: The Gutter Posts: 29,292	not good __________________ Crypto HODLr Crypto mining Angel investor

04-19-2002, 09:53 AM	#6
Wizzo 2011 GFY Hall of Fame! Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Back in Texas! Posts: 15,224	That could Really suck, but I don't think it's time for the fat lady to sing...yet! __________________ Looking for Opportunity!

04-19-2002, 09:59 AM	#7
Gary Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Kimmykims couch Posts: 6,110	Hmmmmmmmmm...not good. __________________ Up to 35$ per join...!

04-19-2002, 10:11 AM	#9
Gramma Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 402	I don't think it refers to like ibill, jettis, etc - I wrote and asked my processor, and they told me that it would not affect me at all (jettis) .. this was like 2 weeks ago when I first heard about this. Got Funky Spunk? Oh no .. not you .. Well, your surfers do! Get more blowjobs with Semenex __________________ gramma at ix.netcom.com

04-19-2002, 09:50 AM	#2
Lensman GFY Chaperone Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Adult.com Posts: 9,846	I would like to see what the billing companies are saying about this.

04-19-2002, 09:53 AM	#5
[Labret] Registered User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Location: Са́нкт-Петербу́рг Posts: 10,945	christ...

04-19-2002, 10:00 AM	#8
Dualcpu Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Europe Posts: 488	Sounds bad. Although they did not specify in detail who would be affected.

04-19-2002, 10:22 AM	#11
Kimmykim bitchslapping zebras!!!!! Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: In a shack by the beach Posts: 16,015	This just in!!!!! -- Beachfront land in Arizona for sale. See how easy it is to take a bunch of sand and turn it into something that it's not???? Gramma, your processor gave you the correct answer

04-19-2002, 10:23 AM	#12
[Labret] Registered User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Location: Са́нкт-Петербу́рг Posts: 10,945	We are dooooomed. This is what happens when we do not police ourselves. Someone else has to do it for us. You reap what you sow.

04-19-2002, 10:30 AM	#13
Gramma Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 402	I'm only reporting what I was told, not playing Chicken Little. When I heard this originally, I believe from Netbilling on the Ynot Board, I wrote to whom I thought it would affect and whom I thought would have credible information, and asked for facts from them, instead of supposition from reading a news article that mentions Paypal and Ebay. I was told on April 3: "This MasterCard guideline will not affect Jettis aggregate clients in any way. Worry not. :-)" But then of course, what would the internet be without rumors and scares __________________ gramma at ix.netcom.com

04-19-2002, 10:37 AM	#15
pimpshost Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 1,052	PayPal is the way to go if this happens. They are going to be the only vaible thrid party solution, because of the way they have it set up. You cant stop PayPal. __________________ Jason (Vegas King Condo) Cell 702-371-8941 Web LuxuryinLasVegas.com - High Rise Condos

04-19-2002, 10:43 AM	#16
Kimmykim bitchslapping zebras!!!!! Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: In a shack by the beach Posts: 16,015	CCBill, IBill, Epoch, I believe Jettis and WSB, all fall under the PSP category now, which was adopted by Visa given the range of services and type of operations we run. We are highly regulated, even more so almost every month, and we also report to Visa (and soon to be Mastercard it appears) the URLS of all sites we process for, on a monthly basis, along with a credit/chargeback report against sales for each of those urls. It would stand to reason that Mastercard, like Visa, wants to know who is using their card to accept payment for what, which is well within their rights as a company, and well within the mysterious and fluid agreements they have with merchant account holders. A company like Paypal, on the other hand, runs a sort of 'virtual currency' service, which is a true aggregator and a factor on the sellers side as well. Paypal doesn't qualify to be a bank, has zero regulation on what is bought and sold with Paypal transfers at the moment (or at least no enforceable regulations) and holds an absolute shitload of consumers money in trust. Since this money is transferred as a purchase instead of a cash advance, banks not only lose out on the cash advance fee they could be charging, they also stand to be liable for that money if Paypal were to go under and consumers started asking for chargebacks. I could go on a bit, but this is getting long as it is...

04-19-2002, 10:47 AM	#19
cherrylula lol Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 15,969	I predict a big fucking-over from both mastercard and visa in the future... for us smut pedders that is. I'm still waiting for an ADULT version of Paypal, and fuck big corporations. Now if someone just sold pre-paid cards, like a phone card, cept for porn sites... that would kick ass!!!!!!! Fuck mastercard and visa, I only use them because there are no better options right now. There is nothing that pisses me off more than some fucking asshole corporation trying to tell consumers how they CANNOT spend their money. These companies (visa/mc) sure did not have any problems when they began processing for thing such as bestiality sites, and paypal. They turn their buck and then tell the adult sellers to bend over and spread. Fuckin sucks. I doubt it would affect Ebay, cause they already pulled the same shit (made a bunch of money allowing people to sell shitty underwear then banned adult sales). Ultimately Mastercard and Visa don't like the fact that the internet is REAL TIME, yet they keep shoving their fists up our asses by holding funds and overcharging merchants to use them. The internet is REAL TIME, when a guy buys a cam show he sure a fuck does not have to wait 2-3 days to get his show..... yet we all have to wait, wait, wait..... and the check's in the mail, blah blah... Yeah, swipe your card and the cc people get their $ pretty damn fast, however you would think they would figure out how to get it into our bank accounts just as quick.... another entity fucking over the little guy.

04-19-2002, 10:48 AM	#20
Gramma Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 402	KimmyKim - you are the bomb diggity __________________ gramma at ix.netcom.com

04-19-2002, 10:59 AM	#23
Dualcpu Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Europe Posts: 488	My heart started beating again.

04-19-2002, 11:14 AM	#24
Kimmykim bitchslapping zebras!!!!! Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: In a shack by the beach Posts: 16,015	wiredoctor -- For the record, no one that I know of in the processing industry takes Visa or Mastercard lightly, since that would be tantamount to slitting your wrists and laughing while the blood ran out. Keep in mind that with the volumes of business that certain companies in the adult industry do, it's a neccessity to maintain good relationships with our issuing banks. Those banks do make a healthy profit off a well run adult account, the same as a well run non adult account. The key is well run, in the comparisons. Visa and MC as a whole don't care about adult either way -- the estimate of adult being less than 1% of their total business is a good one, I'm sure. If they drop the business, they'll hardly notice it. The banks who do business with us, on the other hand, would notice it, so they of course want to keep well run accounts on their books. We are advised of potential changes in policy well in advance of their actually becoming a change, and many times these changes when put to rule barely resemble what they started out to be. We meet with representatives from the cc's, people from our banks, etc. constantly, to clarify, request, and gauge the seriousness of the proposed changes, so that we can react in a timely and appropriate matter to what's coming down the pipe. On a personal note, I love the convenience of Paypal. From a business standpoint, if I were a card issuing bank, I would hate them. They are a giant liability without the risk return that a liability usually brings from the card issuing bank standpoint. From a governmental standpoint, Paypal is a grey, unregulated area, one that is growing at a phenomenal rate, and whose issues are probably growing at the same rate.

04-19-2002, 11:15 AM	#25
cherrylula lol Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 15,969	<<<A company like Paypal, on the other hand, runs a sort of 'virtual currency' service>>> The Internet = Virtual I don't see anything wrong with using a "virtual currency" to charge for my "virtual internet site." hehe. I'm about to look into the pre-paid sex card thing myself, how tough could it be to actually do something like that?? Just got to find a company to make the cards, I'll even design them, and I'm gonna give "Le Sex Shoppe" a call and see if they will sell my little sex point cards. I've seen sites out there doing this already (damn I cannot remember the name), and have fantastic results. Anybody know what I'm talking about?

04-19-2002, 11:20 AM	#26
Eric Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: The Helm! Posts: 8,818	I AIN'T HEARD NO FAT LADY!!! - Will Smith from Indpendence Day __________________ No One

04-19-2002, 12:17 PM	#30
AllisonWonderland Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: oHIo Posts: 248	Here's somebody who came up with a prepaid card: http://123prepaid.com/

04-19-2002, 01:20 PM	#31
ProgGod Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Glendale, AZ Posts: 155	Making paypal like a cash advance would be the WORST thing for paypal. Because most of their customer base would no longer want to use the service. Besides what would you do for the debit cards with visa logos, which probably over half of the people that use paypal currently use.

04-19-2002, 01:27 PM	#32
Kimmykim bitchslapping zebras!!!!! Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: In a shack by the beach Posts: 16,015	Keep in mind Preston -- neither Visa, MC nor the banks (other than the ones that issue Paypals merchant accounts to them) give a rats ass about Paypal or their clients. They are under an obligation to protect themselves by whatever means they find necessary. The way it stands now, if -- and I am making a HYPOTHETICAL statement here ONLY -- Paypal, or any other similar company, were to go under, the card issuing banks would be facing multitudes of customers wanting to chargeback their PURCHASES at Paypal, something they wouldn't be able to do if Paypal were cash advance.

04-20-2002, 07:29 AM	#34
iBill-Cathy Registered User Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 61	All, MasterCard is currently re-looking their rules and how they affect third part processors. The May 1st deadline will not apply to iBill. Your MasterCard transactions are safe. Please let me know if you have any additional concerns. I can be reached at [email protected].

04-20-2002, 07:36 AM	#35
bikinihouse Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 843	What else is next.....

04-20-2002, 07:46 AM	#36
LoveAsianChicks Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: -CANADA- Posts: 1,464	Fuck Paypal - I've heard too much bad stuff about them. I hope they are screwed over. Last edited by LoveAsianChicks; 04-20-2002 at 08:25 AM..

04-20-2002, 11:57 AM	#37
NETbilling Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Huntington Beach, CA Posts: 8,584	Hi All, Hopefully the new rules will not effect all 3rd party processors, depending on how they conduct business. However, I was at the Mastercard meeting in Orlando last week as was, Ibill, Jettis, WSB and things are not looking great at this point. I then spoke to one of the Mastercard VPs at their booth and they did tell me that they really do want each merchant to have their own merchant account, no B.S. He stated that the rules are now carved out but compliance extenesion would most likely be granted beyond May 1st. This is what I was told from the horses mouth. However, things are likely to change as they often do. Mitch / Netbilling __________________ Mitch Farber CEO - NETbilling, Inc. Email / Phone: 888-357-8166 / 661-252-2456 Transaction processing & 24/7 call center services with exceptional rates and flexibility, since 1998!

04-20-2002, 12:10 PM	#38
Cooler Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 180	This is the e-mail from globill.com I have received: ================================= Hi, To our knowledge, this change will not affect us. We will continue to gladly accept mastercard transactions worldwide. Best Regards, Wyatt GloBill-Systems ==================================

04-20-2002, 12:40 PM	#39
Kimmykim bitchslapping zebras!!!!! Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: In a shack by the beach Posts: 16,015	Gotta love you Mitch, keep on playing chicken little on the webmasters and maybe you'll get some business out of it. As has been stated already, and not just by me, there is not going to be a change with processing Mastercard on May 1st for the majority of the companies that do business in adult. Mastercard, just like Visa, wants to know who they are actually processing for. For the past few months, ALL Visa transactions are reported by url, along with the chargeback and credit ratios of those urls. Clients using PSPs like CCBill, Epoch, IBill, etc have not been in the least affected by this change, so far as the technical aspects of processing and thruput are concerned. Website owners with chargebacks that are out of line with the allowable minimums should be working with their processors to identify and correct the problems as best they can, since at some point it would make sense for Visa, and probably Mastercard if they decide to implement the same system, to say that certain URLs are excluded from processing -- any processing, including own merchant account or PSP/third party as well. If and when that does happen, it will be up to each PSP to notify affected clients, not to post about it on message boards.

04-20-2002, 03:23 PM	#40
NETbilling Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Huntington Beach, CA Posts: 8,584	Kimmy, I am not playing anything. I am simply reporting what Mestercard directly stated at the ETA last week. Were you there? I was and everyone is concerned. I am not making up any stories, just reporting what I was told. You and I know that it probably will not happen May 1st. However, there is a genuine concern about the situation. Mitch __________________ Mitch Farber CEO - NETbilling, Inc. Email / Phone: 888-357-8166 / 661-252-2456 Transaction processing & 24/7 call center services with exceptional rates and flexibility, since 1998!

04-20-2002, 07:23 PM	#41
jockboy60 Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 251	everyone better start looking for a real job........ looks like online porn is about to have the fate of other dot coms. Belly Up!! It was fun while it lasted.

04-20-2002, 08:57 PM	#44
heymatty Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Scottsdale :) Posts: 2,188	I am very sure mastercard and visa are somewhat interested in the branding issues when thier logo is placed on a join page. But they are not complete idiots, they want to keep adult internet transactions, it must make them a ton. They just want to stay awayfrom the totally crazy stuff. Recently there was a very big escort/prostitute ring bust here in Toronto. Basically the news said a lot of people were nervous because all their contect details were available from their credit card. It appears the payment of choice for escorts is a cc. Not only are they processing escorts, the make bigmoney at strip clubs, on cigarettes, alcohol etc. These companies can't afford big morals stands, but they can decide not to process horse fucking, young teen sites etc. Not processing legal porn surely would cost them big time. I would think they would rather work with a group of accountable processors to make sure it is a lucrative income source for them. This means dealing with companies that keep chargebacks within the acceptable tolerances and strictly monitor sites for illegal material. I must say I am glad it appears my processor ccbill, is not scared at this time. I do worry a little that even Kimmy who makes the most convincing case as a processor is agreed that its a waiting game as to what the nest regulation is. Surely enough money is made in adult to actually negotiate with the cc's on a level not wait for dictact's. __________________ Cashlantis ~ Black Book Cash

04-20-2002, 09:17 PM	#45
jojojo Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 2,318	"Surely enough money is made in adult to actually negotiate with the cc's" According to what someone said earlier - the online adult business is only 1-2% of M/C's overall revenue... I agree with Hungryman though - with the amount of money being spent and made a solution will definitely be found/created.

04-20-2002, 09:18 PM	#46
SleazyDream I'm here for SPORT Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phone # (401) 285-0696 Posts: 41,470	the sky is falling the sky is falling __________________ This dog, is dog, a dog, good dog, way dog, to dog, keep dog, an dog, idiot dog, busy dog, for dog, 20 dog, seconds dog! Now read without the word dog.

04-20-2002, 10:08 PM	#47
[Labret] Registered User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Location: Са́нкт-Петербу́рг Posts: 10,945	I bet nothing gives Mitch a bigger boner than the thought of the loss of third party processing.

04-20-2002, 10:11 PM	#48
Dax Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: USA Posts: 3,161	Fuck CC and Fuck the surfer, because the cc companies are doing this, Im gonna implement a $9.99/min dialer.... Let's see them bitch NOW!!!