Are surfers are more competent ? [Article by luv$] - GoFuckYourself.com

luv$ · 01-21-2006, 09:10 AM

Is it saturation or savvy surfers that are making it harder to sell in our industry?

Do you think as webmasters we need to focus on enticing savvy surfers rather than simply trying to 'show them where the most porn is at'?

I was looking through some galleries the other day, and I found one that actually made me want to click through to the paysite. It featured very little nudity, concentrated on the girl and what she was doing with her partner only and the pictures were very high quality.

Being honest with yourself, when was the last time you saw a gallery that actually interested *you* to clickthrough? This is of course without it being disturbing or extreme - just straight porn.

I think too often we just throw shit at the wall and hope some of it sticks. Perhaps a time has no come when we need to actually take a step back and evaluate how our output is being percieved and try to tweak it to make it appealing rather than informative.

Some of you may say that you already do this - great! But it can always be done better.

I hope this motivates you a little bit

Quote:

Johnnie L. Roberts, "Keepin' It On the Download", Newsweek, August 1, 2005, p. 42]

"As of December, more than half of U.S. homes were wired with the high-speed pipeline to the Net. Online audiences are surging (5 million-strong for AOL's Live 8 concert coverage)."

luv$

luv$ · 01-21-2006, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luv$

Are surfers are more competent ?

I fucking hate it when I do that.

PamiebDVD · 01-21-2006, 09:24 AM

Nice commentary.

I think you're right, in that surfer's are becoming a little smarter/conservative where they spend their money. But...I still think that one of the reasons behind that is that there are so many sites out there giving content away for free.

gangbangjoe · 01-21-2006, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luv$

I fucking hate it when I do that.

damn i opened the thread just to bash you because of the typo in your thread title

Jensen · 01-21-2006, 09:29 AM

I get to many emailes daily with questions like "how do I download movies" to think they have matured into smarter surfers...

psili · 01-21-2006, 09:32 AM

I sometimes use my mom as a judge of how "competent" surfers are. Two years ago, she'd spam her mailing list with joke / inspirational emails she'd receive that was at least ten deep of forwarded attachment emails I'd have to click through to read. Recently, her spam emails have stopped, and when I actually get one, the original email is actually right below her forward. Maybe it's the software now, maybe she's learned how to use it. Don't know.

I also see less "dumb" feedback emails from customers to the adult site I work for. Used to be they'd be all frustrated because they didn't know they needed a plugin to watch video (real / windows), or how to deal with an outdated plugin. Now with Windows(2000/XP) becoming more prevalent, the issue is becoming moot, since the operating system does most of the work of informing them of their troubles. And what to automatically do to resolve it.

In regard to getting surfers attention to click on a certain link; I think they have become more desensitized and aware of the tactics deployed by websites. Look at the popup-blocking software available; even browsers are integrated with it now (though, there's always a way around it). Personally, I think if you're up-front and honest about where you send someone, they will, even unknowingly, be thankful for that and may continue to come back to look for more. Yes, there's always new people to swindle, if that's the game one plays. But that game's a zero-win one, as you always lose the lucky person who stumbled on your site.

Thinking about that, I should take my own advice and actually place sites into my site that I'd actually want to be a member of. If I did that, though, I'd have only a few sponsor sites to list.

bigdog · 01-21-2006, 09:37 AM

Companies are being cheap and hiring guys who have no idea how to make nice converting galleries. The guys who are going to be really coming up are the hardcore gallery guys who are doing their own paysite and know what they are doing.

luv$ · 01-21-2006, 10:41 AM

Thanks guys

I'm interested in reading some more feedback.

luv$ · 01-21-2006, 10:36 PM

Bump for typos

Paul Markham · 01-21-2006, 10:56 PM

The idea that we make money out of an "Impulse Buy" is wrong.

The first exposure to porn has always been free porn, 42 years ago my exposure to porn was the magazines in my Dads wardrobe. For todays 12 to 18 year olds it's the free porn on the Internet.

So who do we sell to?

Guys who have been surfing the free sites for months of years, guys who have already been a member of a paysite. THE REPEAT BUYER.

The impulse is where does he buy from this month and little else.

What ever you buy, groceries, cars or porn what you had last week you see as the norm and next week you want better. It's human nature. As sites started 5 to 10 years ago learn the difference between photography and porn they educate the buying surfer. As more professional porn companies enter this sector of the porn market they educate surfers.

Some people still insist it's still about the hits that end up on a site, other think it's more about the numbers who sign up. As the surfer gets more educated who do you think is right?

I rarely get an email from a member of our paysite asking how to download a movie. Is our site better laid out or the surfer learning?

luv$ · 01-21-2006, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

The idea that we make money out of an "Impulse Buy" is wrong.

The first exposure to porn has always been free porn, 42 years ago my exposure to porn was the magazines in my Dads wardrobe. For todays 12 to 18 year olds it's the free porn on the Internet.

So who do we sell to?

Guys who have been surfing the free sites for months of years, guys who have already been a member of a paysite. THE REPEAT BUYER.

The impulse is where does he buy from this month and little else.

What ever you buy, groceries, cars or porn what you had last week you see as the norm and next week you want better. It's human nature. As sites started 5 to 10 years ago learn the difference between photography and porn they educate the buying surfer. As more professional porn companies enter this sector of the porn market they educate surfers.

Some people still insist it's still about the hits that end up on a site, other think it's more about the numbers who sign up. As the surfer gets more educated who do you think is right?

I rarely get an email from a member of our paysite asking how to download a movie. Is our site better laid out or the surfer learning?

Great man, thanks for the input.

Content is definately key - it is a deciding factor for me personally, but I have trouble identifying if that is because I know the industry and impartial or if it's simply because that's what works.

Paul Markham · 01-21-2006, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luv$

Great man, thanks for the input.

Content is definately key - it is a deciding factor for me personally, but I have trouble identifying if that is because I know the industry and impartial or if it's simply because that's what works.

Could it be both?

You know the industry and that's what works.

Tempest · 01-21-2006, 11:43 PM

Shortly before I got into this biz, I bought my one and only non-biz related membership to a porn site. I had seen these galleries on a TGP over some time, they were nicely put together, the content was high quality pictures, was hot chicks an hot hardcore action in the niche I enjoy. The gallery just had a few lines of text, but they had 1 banner on it with an awesome babe enticing you to fuck her tits. After seeing those galleries over some time, I really wanted to get into the pay site to get more of it... The paysite was crap inside with very few of the pics I had seen, but I ended up staying for months simply because I couldn't be bothered to cancel... That experience taught me what I needed to know about marketing porn to surfers.

In my opinion, the majority of galleries (FHGs as well) are crap these days. They're into either just pumping out hundreds of them and "hoping shit sticks to the wall", or they're sooooo pretty and filled with graphics that they don't have a chance to actually sell to the consumer. The worst ones are the ones that don't even have woman appropiate for the niche.. i.e. skiny chicks for fat/bbw, small tit girls for big tit sites etc. At the end of the day though, it's the content IN the galleries that gets a surfer to buy. If the content you're presenting to the surfer is crap, don't expect many signups.

But it's not just the galleries.. Banners and FPAs can also sell well if used properly. But a lot of those are crap as well... I was picking some out tonight and with one company, few of the banners actually featured really good examples of women for the niche of the site, and few even had the name of the site... Sometimes I wonder what the average IQ is of people in this biz.

llporter · 01-22-2006, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luv$

Perhaps a time has no come when we need to actually take a step back and evaluate how our output is being percieved and try to tweak it to make it appealing rather than informative.

luv$

English please.

Drake · 01-22-2006, 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luv$

Is it saturation or savvy surfers that are making it harder to sell in our industry?

I think it's partly saturation, surfer awareness, novelty factor, more options, and increased billing restrictions required by processors over the past few years.

By novelty factor, I mean when most people were getting online for the first time in North America 1996-1999, it was the first time they could access porn without going to a store. The curiousity factor alone drove many to search for and join porn sites to see what was offered. That rush has declined because it's nothing new any more. Hey, even I watched some episodes of the first season of Survivor on tv because it was something fresh. But haven't watched it since.

When I say more options, I mean more sites, niche sites within the market so sales may be at similar levels as before but it's spread among more webmaters. Many surfers don't surf for "porn" any more. They search for their balloon fetish or foot fetish using those keywords. That doesn't even take into consideration how much more free porn is available now compared to before.

WarChild · 01-22-2006, 01:07 AM

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=our

Drake · 01-22-2006, 01:09 AM

In short, I think most of the 'tweaking' has already been done as far as online porn is concerned until technology enables us to do more (ex advanced interactive capabilities etc which may be years into the future if ever). IMO, it's all about quality, consistency, dependability, quantity, and client support now.

luv$ · 01-23-2006, 05:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by llporter

English please.

Take out the word "no". If it still doesn't make sense, then I can't help you anyway.

adultchica · 01-23-2006, 05:58 AM

I think surfers are getting more savvy. The internet is over a decade old now

luv$ · 01-23-2006, 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarChild

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=our

Yeah, I'm pretty sure I know how to spell.

Though when editing, double words sometimes occur.

I did not mean "our" nor a double "are" - the title should have read: "Are surfers more competent ?"

Do you guys really have nothing further to add to this topic rather than acting like english teachers? Especially when they're obviously editing mistakes...

luv$ · 01-23-2006, 06:07 PM

bizzzzump

gfx3 · 01-23-2006, 06:20 PM

All those forums offering paysite movies for free should be shut down. That would be a start. I find sapphic erotica full movies, twistys 20 minute movies, 230mb long movies all free to download without a problem.
I find instructions how to spoof, all the tools and sites needed to do this without a problem. It's like with the crack and serials thing for software.
Shut them down and sales will increase for everybody.

01-21-2006, 09:24 AM	#3
PamiebDVD Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Hermosa Beach Posts: 912	Nice commentary. I think you're right, in that surfer's are becoming a little smarter/conservative where they spend their money. But...I still think that one of the reasons behind that is that there are so many sites out there giving content away for free. __________________ guttermonger.com ICQ: 281-273-698 \| Email: pamela [AT] dvdsforabuck [DOT] com[/SIZE]

01-21-2006, 09:32 AM	#6
psili Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Loveland, CO Posts: 5,526	I sometimes use my mom as a judge of how "competent" surfers are. Two years ago, she'd spam her mailing list with joke / inspirational emails she'd receive that was at least ten deep of forwarded attachment emails I'd have to click through to read. Recently, her spam emails have stopped, and when I actually get one, the original email is actually right below her forward. Maybe it's the software now, maybe she's learned how to use it. Don't know. I also see less "dumb" feedback emails from customers to the adult site I work for. Used to be they'd be all frustrated because they didn't know they needed a plugin to watch video (real / windows), or how to deal with an outdated plugin. Now with Windows(2000/XP) becoming more prevalent, the issue is becoming moot, since the operating system does most of the work of informing them of their troubles. And what to automatically do to resolve it. In regard to getting surfers attention to click on a certain link; I think they have become more desensitized and aware of the tactics deployed by websites. Look at the popup-blocking software available; even browsers are integrated with it now (though, there's always a way around it). Personally, I think if you're up-front and honest about where you send someone, they will, even unknowingly, be thankful for that and may continue to come back to look for more. Yes, there's always new people to swindle, if that's the game one plays. But that game's a zero-win one, as you always lose the lucky person who stumbled on your site. Thinking about that, I should take my own advice and actually place sites into my site that I'd actually want to be a member of. If I did that, though, I'd have only a few sponsor sites to list. __________________ Your post count means nothing.

01-21-2006, 10:41 AM	#8
luv$ !$!$!$!$!$!$!$!$!$!$ Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Paper Street Posts: 6,158	Thanks guys I'm interested in reading some more feedback. __________________ Domain Auction - now till 12:01AM on the 2nd... Paper Streeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet Cash The Real Workout - Innocent High - Oye Loca - Her Freshman Year - Solo Interviews - This Girl Sucks. ** HQ Fresh ORIGINAL sites.

01-21-2006, 10:36 PM	#9
luv$ !$!$!$!$!$!$!$!$!$!$ Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Paper Street Posts: 6,158	Bump for typos __________________ Domain Auction - now till 12:01AM on the 2nd... Paper Streeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet Cash The Real Workout - Innocent High - Oye Loca - Her Freshman Year - Solo Interviews - This Girl Sucks. ** HQ Fresh ORIGINAL sites.

01-21-2006, 10:56 PM	#10
Paul Markham Too old to care Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: On the sofa, watching TV or doing my jigsaws. Posts: 52,943	The idea that we make money out of an "Impulse Buy" is wrong. The first exposure to porn has always been free porn, 42 years ago my exposure to porn was the magazines in my Dads wardrobe. For todays 12 to 18 year olds it's the free porn on the Internet. So who do we sell to? Guys who have been surfing the free sites for months of years, guys who have already been a member of a paysite. THE REPEAT BUYER. The impulse is where does he buy from this month and little else. What ever you buy, groceries, cars or porn what you had last week you see as the norm and next week you want better. It's human nature. As sites started 5 to 10 years ago learn the difference between photography and porn they educate the buying surfer. As more professional porn companies enter this sector of the porn market they educate surfers. Some people still insist it's still about the hits that end up on a site, other think it's more about the numbers who sign up. As the surfer gets more educated who do you think is right? I rarely get an email from a member of our paysite asking how to download a movie. Is our site better laid out or the surfer learning? __________________ Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500. PM me for a deal. Skype Paulmarkham70

01-21-2006, 09:29 AM	#5
Jensen Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Norway Posts: 3,790	I get to many emailes daily with questions like "how do I download movies" to think they have matured into smarter surfers...

01-21-2006, 09:37 AM	#7
bigdog Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 6,964	Companies are being cheap and hiring guys who have no idea how to make nice converting galleries. The guys who are going to be really coming up are the hardcore gallery guys who are doing their own paysite and know what they are doing.

01-21-2006, 11:43 PM	#13
Tempest Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: May 2004 Location: West Coast, Canada. Posts: 10,217	Shortly before I got into this biz, I bought my one and only non-biz related membership to a porn site. I had seen these galleries on a TGP over some time, they were nicely put together, the content was high quality pictures, was hot chicks an hot hardcore action in the niche I enjoy. The gallery just had a few lines of text, but they had 1 banner on it with an awesome babe enticing you to fuck her tits. After seeing those galleries over some time, I really wanted to get into the pay site to get more of it... The paysite was crap inside with very few of the pics I had seen, but I ended up staying for months simply because I couldn't be bothered to cancel... That experience taught me what I needed to know about marketing porn to surfers. In my opinion, the majority of galleries (FHGs as well) are crap these days. They're into either just pumping out hundreds of them and "hoping shit sticks to the wall", or they're sooooo pretty and filled with graphics that they don't have a chance to actually sell to the consumer. The worst ones are the ones that don't even have woman appropiate for the niche.. i.e. skiny chicks for fat/bbw, small tit girls for big tit sites etc. At the end of the day though, it's the content IN the galleries that gets a surfer to buy. If the content you're presenting to the surfer is crap, don't expect many signups. But it's not just the galleries.. Banners and FPAs can also sell well if used properly. But a lot of those are crap as well... I was picking some out tonight and with one company, few of the banners actually featured really good examples of women for the niche of the site, and few even had the name of the site... Sometimes I wonder what the average IQ is of people in this biz.

01-22-2006, 01:07 AM	#16
WarChild Let slip the dogs of war. Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Bermuda Posts: 17,263	http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=our __________________ .

01-22-2006, 01:09 AM	#17
Drake Hello world! Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 12,508	In short, I think most of the 'tweaking' has already been done as far as online porn is concerned until technology enables us to do more (ex advanced interactive capabilities etc which may be years into the future if ever). IMO, it's all about quality, consistency, dependability, quantity, and client support now. Last edited by Drake; 01-22-2006 at 01:10 AM..

01-23-2006, 05:58 AM	#19
adultchica Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: usa Posts: 5,141	I think surfers are getting more savvy. The internet is over a decade old now __________________

01-23-2006, 06:07 PM	#21
luv$ !$!$!$!$!$!$!$!$!$!$ Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Paper Street Posts: 6,158	bizzzzump __________________ Domain Auction - now till 12:01AM on the 2nd... Paper Streeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet Cash The Real Workout - Innocent High - Oye Loca - Her Freshman Year - Solo Interviews - This Girl Sucks. ** HQ Fresh ORIGINAL sites.

01-23-2006, 06:20 PM	#22
gfx3 Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 1,685	All those forums offering paysite movies for free should be shut down. That would be a start. I find sapphic erotica full movies, twistys 20 minute movies, 230mb long movies all free to download without a problem. I find instructions how to spoof, all the tools and sites needed to do this without a problem. It's like with the crack and serials thing for software. Shut them down and sales will increase for everybody. __________________