See my pervious post above (to nadanada) why your sales with them have dropped off.

My reply to you not knowing what you are talking about was in reagrds to the post you made. Which is summarized as: I am a shill and what I post doesn't mean anything because I am here to recruit noobs, ifriends doesn't have the most models on live, and for me to stay in my own threads. All of that is 100% incorrect so my reply to you was accurate.

Why do i do good with them? You are correct I focus all of my time on the company that makes me the most money. Seems logical enough, but most people think it is smarter to push 5 - 10 sponsors. FYI, as previously stated, I make 5% of my income from affiliate sales. It's not like I am on here making up shit to get people to signup. My credability is worth more then the 5% I make. I wouldn't sell something I didn't believe in and that I didn't know was proven the best to me. There is way too many people on here trying to sell something they can't even make money from, because they want the easy affiliate money. ClickCash doesn't pay me or give me special treatment to "shill" them. If they give me a little more special treatment then most it is because I make them more money then most.

For the shaving, you feel satisfied from your testing blah blah blah etc... that fine. But either you are a "moral" person or you in it for the money. Can't have it both ways. To say you are holding you nose and sticking it out with them long enough till you make more money with someone else is bullshit. Either their money is good enough for you or not.

My conversion rates dropped because of competition AND whenever there was a payout change. Conversions began to go up again about a year or so ago (as clickcash continued it's cleanup of people commiting fraud and people started dropping them to promote other webcam programs) but they've never reached the same level again. It's competition and yes, if I got in fresh streams of traffic that could improve.

The thing is, one of the things you never talk about in your posts about how great iFriends is, is the work involved in getting those sales. i.e. If I spend 2 hours a day promoting a different cam site and make as much as spending 4 hours a day promoting iFriends, which is better?

It's not just about the paycheck, it's $/hour. So if the techniques I used for iFriends aren't working as good anymore, but they work great for a new cam site thus requiring less work on my part? Which do you think I'd go with?

Well, about 90% of the time when you post it's purely to "defend" iFriends, basically saying that everyone else is a lier and you're the only one telling the truth about them, and to anyone that doesn't bash them you tell them that you can help them make more money is they signup under you.. well what would you call that?? I'd say a shill whoring for refs.

I never said that. I said that because they can have multiple names, you can't tell. And you can't tell with that filter unless you're an elite member. Since I'm not, I can't see what that listing shows and whether it's truly a unique listing or not.

About 3 months into this business I was ripped off for almost $1k. So I don't really trust any sponsor and I promote several to reduce the risk. Given iFriends history of terming people (and please don't say they were all cheaters cause I know that's not the case), it wouldn't be "logical" for anyone to put all their eggs in the iFriends basket. You however have alleviated that risk my having people sign up under you. And if you've truly been making $1M a year, you're going to have other business/investment ventures and so it's not important to you as it would be to someone else whether they went under or termed you.

That's great, but maybe you should let other people discuss what their experience has been with iFriends as opposed to labeling them as idiots and lieing noobs. Just because you've had a rosy experience with them doesn't mean that everyone else has. I also believe in letting someone know ALL aspects, good and bad about something rather than mislead them with promises of riches.

So if pimpdoggy offered you $5 more than clickcash on a free signup you'd do business with him?

- Competition is only a problem when their ads are better then yours. I doubt that you scratch the surface of hitting online users. For conversion rates, even if they dropped, clickcash's pay rate increases have out paced the loss of signups through any possible saturation. I can make more now with 500 signups then i did 5 years ago with 750 signups... So *I* still make more money, do i care if i convert more or less then i did in 2001 ?

- the way i compare is from ad productivity. I tried several sponors from the same ad spots (same traffic) and compared how much money they made me. I am going to spend the same amount of time generating traffic no matter which company i send it to. I do test from that traffic to see which company does the best. It has nothing to do with by the hour etc...

- a couple easy changes and your techniques may make you more again with clickcash then you are making now with your current sponsor. BUT what you are telling me is that it is too much work for you to do. You would rather chage out a sponsor and keep things the same instead of spending a little extra time to change it up and make a lot more money.

- about 50% I post, it is related to clickcash/ifriends. Why do i defend them? because I believe in them. Believe me, 99% of the time i defend them I wouldn't want to work with the person I am talking to anyway. you ever just believe in something, and want to defend it. I owe my life to clickcash. I have made serious money from them, they have treated me great, and I think ifriends is a great service to boot. They are pioneers of the industry and really have the best camsite out there and best paying affiliate program. They might not have the best CS, might not have a lot of tools in place, and they may be a little strict on the TOS. It is what you make of it, all the important stuff is there for you. Just don't spam/defraud them and you are fine. If you NEED tools and can't make your own, or need to be held by the hand, then no ClickCash is not for you. I am glad they are strict on the TOS, companies that aren't wont last long and if they let other people get away with too much that could affect my income as well.

- I have an ifriends membership and I can see how many are unique and how many have multiple sessions. You can take my word for it or not. What I said above is true, about 3500 session, about 1900 actual models. Less then 2 sessions per model average. Sure some have 5 sessions going, but several only have 1, it averages out.

- about 3 months into this business I was ripped off as well from web800 for about 6K. I've explained this several times before on here so i am giving you the short version. If i make 10% more with ifriends then any other company, why would i send them 25% of my traffic so i could " not have all my eggs in one basket". So i make 8% less each week, so i can be diversified. Instead of doing that i keep all my traffic with them and after 12 weeks I am ahead of the game. If i get terminated I lose what 1, 1.5 weeks of income? If i make 8% less each week I am lossing A LOT more then that each year. Follow the logic? BTW from my understanding if I got terminated I believe I would lose my affiliate income as well, so that wouldn;t help me. I do have other investments going offline, but that is because i choose to re-invest 90% of what i make. Unlike most idiots here who actually make money and spend it on expensive cars and houses and shit. But that really has nothing to do with clickcash.

- I only lable people as idiots and noobs when they say really stupid shit or missinformed shit that can easily be proved. You have never heard me call someone something because they said that ClickCash had bad customer service or a lack of tools, etc. I also call people shit when they talk about clickcash and they have never used them... but they heard.... lol I lover those words, i heard = fact to 90 % of the people on GFY.

- I wouldn't work with pimpdog if he offered me $500 a signup and a BJ. I don't like him. Now, you on the other hand would work with him, well until you got an offer from someone you liked better.

baby jebus cries for my conversion rates this week with them:


Uniques: 1 signup per 848 unique IPs 848:1
Raw Hits: 1 signup per 1833 clicks 1833:1



went from 1:200-1:300 ish to this in a matter of a week...cest la interwebs...





man this is a long winded post session, thought I'd drop in one here with under 1,000 words

:thumbsup




PS: Stacy rocks when you can catch her, Al really needs to clone her though...

what kind of volume/sales are you pushing with them. With any affiliate company you really need to average your sales out of time, you have a good week and you have some bad weeks, it's impossible to have the same each week.

Sorry that baby jebus is crying, you should do better next week.

-less then 200 words -

:1orglaugh :thumbsup

Thanks for the vote of confidence, I'm sure it'll shift again...

Just been a horrid last 2 weeks...I think it's just time to freshen some stuff up, trying out a few diff join pages, etc...

will whats with all the insecurity ?
Your long posts and bragging about how much you make shows
insecurity. You should see a doctor.
I won't go to your level and start calling names
but there are people in this thread that make more than you do
(I'm not one of them) which you call noobs and idiots.
The truth is they don't like to brag about what they do
and the fact you don't know who they are shows just how
ignorat you are.
You are becoming clickcash's TurboAngel, do you like this position ?

How about a bit of modesty ?

when you don't know someone, knowing how much they make shows credibility to what they are saying not insecurity, fool.


if the people who make more then me want to give me constructive criticism then i am all ears, but from reading all of your post you are obviously not one of these people. so you can keep your 2 cents to yourself you might need the money to go towards rent or food or something.

I am done replying to you. you are a lost cause.

There was enough constructive criticism in this thread.
You were too busy defending clickcash to notice it.
I even have my doubts for what you make cause by the looks
of your replies the only thing you're good at is insulting people you don't know.

That's bullshit. More competition means there's a higher probability the surfer has already seen an ad for iFriends and signed up before they even hit mine. But you already know this. You alluded to it when you mentioned previously that a lot of people jump from sponsor to sponsor and they see a jump in their sales due to the freshness factor.

So are you finally admiting that clickcash doesn't convert as well as they used to or not?

As you tell everyone when your promoting the greatness of iFriends, the ads need to be tweaked etc. to maximize the returns. So your "test" is flawed since they're biased towards making sales from iFriends and not the other cam sponsors you "tested". You might have made more money from the other cam program if you had spent as much time tweaking and tuning their ads as you have over the years with clickcash. But because you've done so well with clickcash, you've locked yourself into your own little box now.

That's flawed thinking. If you're making more $/hour with a different cam company then you can spend all the extra time generating traffic for that sponsor and make even more money than you would with clickcash.

See above and your flawed thinking. I don't doubt that I could do more to make more with clickcash. I'm far from lazy. But it all comes down to ROI and in this case the I is time.

I think the difference is that you are pretty much 100% iFriends. The majority of us are not. I used to send 100% of my cam traffic to iFriends. But now I don't since I can't trust them. Actually, that's not quite true. I still send 100% of the traffic that was garnered from iFriends promotions to iFriends. New work is being sent to new cam programs. For most of the WMs here, Cams are NOT their business, like me, it's more of an upsell.

So even though you tell others they should put all their eggs in 1 basket, you actualy don't follow that advice yourself?

I won't work with him either. But basically this means all your posting and everything about iFriends is bullshit. Even for you it's not about JUST making money, or doing business with the company that will make you the most money. You won't do business with someone you don't like. And for a lot of people they don't like the iFriends business practices and won't do business with them because of it. Yet everytime someone comes on here and says this and the reasons why, you basically call them an idiot, a lier or whatever.

Actually, if I was doing business with him before I knew what he was like I would continue until I could replace that revenue elsewhere. I get the feeling you wouldn't though because if he had made you a shit load of money you'd stay loyal regardless of whether or not you were being scammed out of some of the money that was due to you.

We can keep this going and going, I just don't have the time. I do have good replies ofcourse but I will just have to keep that information to myself. Keep doing what you are doing, i hope you are satisfied with your income.

bump for will :thumbsup

hey John, what is your relation to webcams.com? are you an owner, rep, or office employee?

Please answer the question, it is the 3rd time it has been asked.

hey will if clickcash is so great why are you the only one who knows it? maybe because you make all kinds of money doing the job they should be doing...good on ya but you gotta admit their support is the worst in the industy, what other program has an affiliate who makes all the banner, geo ads, custom pages ect. these should be provided by clickcash

do you have Geo targetted ads?

you ever think about this... if i had always worked with companies that had lots of tools I would never have been forced to learn to make promos myself, and to really find out what works the best. *Most* affiliate companies don't know what works best. Think about it, the bigger affiliate companies have design guys, and reps (basically). All employees who are employees for a reason. Who do you think knows what works best for an affiliate company, a $12 an hour employee or an affiliate that makes his own tools and gets 50+ signups a day? I am thankful I was forced to learn for myself, If i had been given tools all along i would be using it as a crutch and would be using the same canned shit that everyone else is using, and likely making the same as them. There is no doubt that I do good for two reasons, clickcash pays the most, and I learned to make my own shit that works better then the shit that is offered to everyone else. And by doing it this long I have learned exactly what works the best for clickcash.

well, as much as I hate to admit it, you have a valid point.

with the exception of a few iframes from webcams.com, and a default HSN tour, I've usually constructed my own tours and custom signup pages.

I interpret your views as being "if it isn't broke, don't fix it" which is great, for the product. on the promotion/advertising side, it is an ever changing world. in this business you are constantly on your toes, fixing this, tweaking that, trying this, ditching that. you get the point.

and because of this, you will be hard pressed to convince most webmasters that ifriends with its still 1998ish feel, is a shining star. even I just want to see a little change, to know the people there are still alive. even persiankitty ditched her old ad for a new and improved ifriends iframe!

sponsor supplied tools don't make or break an *experienced* affiliate, but offering a tool like geo targetting (just an example) is fantastic in that it will help any webmaster under a program sell that program.

with a final note, I have a webmaster help site of my own I'm getting closer to launching thats both mainstream and adult built for slackers like me that isn't totally about personal gain but more for promoting honest business, and I wasn't planning on listing clickcash at all under trusted affiliates, but I may consider listing TCC after spending some time checking it out.

I mean jesus fucking christ, someone so god damn passionate about a company THAT IS NOT EVEN HIS OWN and that so many hate AND provides far better tools than a few other sponsors I can think of, has to get at least a little recognition. this last part was sort of a compliment, before you start a rant :thumbsup

anyway, I really think this whole thread turned around from where it should be.

webcams.com is a great program. perhaps john should have titled the thread webcams.com, but I'll vouch for him. hes a great guy, his program is awesome, and you have to understand it is technically still an infant (well in internet years a toddler) with a lot of room to grow.

tear moment..I love you guys :wetkiss

don't worry i wont rant :winkwink: I take your post as a compliment. I only rant when people tell me shit that i know it totally false or they try to make a big deal about nothing (ex. wont use clickcash because you need to mail or fax webmaster agreement, etc..) that shit for some reason bothers me although i shouldn't say anything and just let stupid be, sometimes i can't help myself.

I never speak on behalf of clickcash. I only speak as an affiliate that uses them. Who knows though, maybe clickcash prefers to work with a smaller group of more experienced webmasters instead of a million noobs. we all know the noobs generate 100x more bullshit emails and off the wall questions. By not providing these tools they could be using that as a prequalifier. The noobs don't have tools and the pros install their own geotargeting software, etc... who knows... maybe this is the case, maybe not. But i would have to think they know what they are doing, even if we scratch our heads and can't figure it out sometimes. They can't be making millions a day for like 10 years by chance. :2 cents:

But typical GFY form, the people here know more about clickcash then clickcash, everyone here has it figured out, etc... it is too funny to step back and listen to this shit.

I love clickcash. i send them gifts lol. I am not the typical affilate, obviously, but i owe them so much and have made so much from them that i feel like it is in a way part my company. I would love to be on board with them to help them with stuff, if they ever needed it. I would buy stock in a heart beat.

for geo-targeting, if anyone working with me needs a simply solution check this out: http://www.teamclickcash.com/promo/geo-targeting.htm Unlike other affilite programs, my script allows you to place the location any where you want, with your own promos or mine. I also have 3 options available, the correct city(local city according to your ip), a close city (random city with in 300 miles of you), and a random city (pulls any random city). Here is a little free advice for everyone, surfers are catching on to geo-targeting, those of you who show like 8 girls and all 8 are from the surfer's city, LOL they are not falling for that shit anymore. You need to mix it up now, have 1 -2 from their local city, 1 or 2 from a city close, and the rest random, this will sell them every time and convert geo-targeting 100% better. Also this requires no programming on your end, it is simple java script that you place on your site. For those of you who like to steal, it is protected, I have to authorize you to use it.(suggestions/consulting like this is also included in addition to the promos I create for to those of you who work with me.)


BTW... John, what's your position with webcamcash.com :winkwink:

Well, shit - :)

Woohoo The cam game is getting mroe and more intersting. we are now over 500 models on at peak times. Cams.com Is smokin, and it wont be long now till we are number 1 , Get on board the bandwagon formthe great team at Adult Friend Finder you can promote Cams.com a simple to remember very short domain name that will convert your traffic like no other !

adult friend finder - CLICK THE SIG

hey you are solid #2 for camgirls online no doubt, but Lars, you been saying you will be #1 soon for a while now :winkwink:

Pleaaaaasseee man....I do agree with many of the things you say but this is just stupid :2 cents:

foot fetish? I don't see foot fetish

I'm promoting iFriends and doing ok. I went with them as webcams.com doesn't have any content in my niche.

Curious why iFriends charges $1 for their "free" signup, though.

Yes, support sucks, but they pay on time and the few times I've had to email they did get back to me.

Which converts best? It depends on so many different factors like niche, traffic, site, etc etc etc.

sorry we didn't have enough hairy pics... we will in time.

They want a signature, thats the bottom line. I don't see why doing business with a company wanting a signature from you is a problem. Everyone I do business with signs a contract with me even if it is for a couple hundred bucks. I feel it has a lot to do with spam, maybe they have been sued ( i don't know) and their legal takes not paying spammers seriously, and a signature makes it more valid then clicking yes on a webpage. I just don't see the big deal, because all of the other companies try to make so easy for you to sign up and they half ass it in the process, I don't see why clickcash should be ripped on for doing it the right way.

hey john what is your role with webcams.com ? are you an owner, rep, office employee, chathost?

Wow, he's been running from that question like a scared little girl. Now I'm curious as well.

Will, I heard you were just a chat spammer. Can you please confirm your traffic sources?

Also, have you ever heard of the E-Sign act? It makes sending paper contracts unnecessary

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=e-sign+act

I spam everything :winkwink:

so John, what is your role with webcams.com ? Why is this a hard question for you to answer ?

It is not a hard question to answer I just don't want to answer it.. I'm keeping a low profile, lol... Why is my question to you hard to answer?

I am confused too.... he talks like he is the owner, he sounds like he is an idiot, and if he is an employee i hope he isn't getting paid more then a $10 hooker.

I also wonder if the people running webcams.com own the domain or are leasing it. If they are leasing it I would want to know for how long, especially if they are going to offer a revshare program. Also would suck to send a lot of webmasters there and have it close down and you lose all that webmaster referral money. Reason why I ask this is because I could sware i went to webcams.com not too long ago and it was a ad site with clickcash ads on it, like someone was doing nothing with it. So how did it go from that point to webcam program. I don't remember hearing that it was sold? was it? was it leased? check the whois on it, what country is that? John sounds like he is english speaking, is he from that country... so many questions... maybe others know the answers too and I am just a noob, but I am curious. especially since it is the best cam site :winkwink:

low profile... ? :1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh :warning

posting on GFY that you have the best webcam site out there and you want to keep a low profile. I think you just don't want to answer for other reasons....

are you talent by any chance, or an affiliate ?

we own the domain Webcams.com. the country of registration is Cyprus -- didn't you go to school Will :1orglaugh ? maybe you quit early

we launched our site in June, before that it was just a landing page that was selling iFriends for the type-ins

will if you want to send traffic to Webcams.com we will be glad to answer any questions that you might have. ICQ me at 476-111 if you want to talk about it :) but we don't accept spam traffic

By the way everyone we just launched

http://blog.webcams.com

for your webcam blog traffic... the site has a trade script too so you can send traffic to it and get traffic back! We are adding 10-15 entries per day until we get a large number, then will be adding one per day to keep it fresh

If you haven't tried us already sign up at http://www.webcams.com/affiliate/

Some features of Webcams.com:

• $40+ PPS on $5 memberships
• $20+ PPS on free lifetime memberships
• Customers don't have to buy time for you to get paid!
• Custom promotional material
• In-house designers to create any pages you might need
• Period ends Saturday, you get paid Monday!
• Check, ePassporte, and Wire transfers sent on MONDAY
• The best webcam domain name for instant customer trust

I am sorry who is " WE ". So YOU are an owner ?

Ask 10 americans what CY (country code) stands for and 9 wont be able to tell you. I doubt 9 will be able to tell you where on the map it is for that matter.

awe damn, and i wanted to send you traffic soo bad too. :Oh crap

LOL, will76 you are an IM spammer?

If he spams IM liek he spams GFY he should be making 8 figures instead of 7. :1orglaugh :winkwink:

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

9 out of 10 Americans can't point out their own state on a map of the US - so what's your point?

And btw, one of the biggest cam sponsors (besides webcams.com) is also based out of Cyprus. Are you suggesting they are not worthy of sending traffic to either?

Seriously, if you're going to argue at least make relevant arguments!

thanks for the compliment :)

where did i say dont work with a country because it is based out of Cyprus?

My reply was to his comment that since i didnt know what CY stood for i didn't finish school. I was simply saying that most people in the US don't know, so it doesnt mean i am stupid... etc.

bet I could find it fast on google, although I do know it is somewhere in the mediterranean

Imlive and Streammate are also in Cyprus