Click fraud, google ad sense fraud: Great article on possible economic demise. - GoFuckYourself.com

Cory W · 12-30-2005, 11:06 AM

Google will end 2005 with $6.1 billion in revenue. About 99 percent of that revenue comes from keyword ads (over 56 percent from AdWords, according to the company's most recent quarterly financial statement, and 43 percent from AdSense), making Google a bigger recipient of ad dollars than any television network or newspaper chain. All of which is to say that little blue text links, a type of advertising that barely existed five years ago, are poised to become the single most important form of marketing in the US - unless click fraud ruins it.

But some observers, like Holcomb, believe that click fraud is "a billion-dollar mess" that "has the potential of destroying the entire industry."

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/14.01/fraud.html

8 Characters · 12-30-2005, 11:08 AM

I hope it does destroy the industry. They are ruining the internet. In five years every single website will have google adsense or something similar slapped onto it, and it's damn hideous.

vvq · 12-30-2005, 11:21 AM

the house of cards will come tumbling down sooner or later.

WiredGuy · 12-30-2005, 11:35 AM

I know I'm paying for a ton of fraudulent clicks, but there is very little we can do. You can complain and bitch every time it happens to Google (or the respective PPC source), maybe get a refund, maybe not. Or, just absorb it into the cost of doing business. Unfortunately the latter is easier.
WG

JFK · 12-30-2005, 11:38 AM

intresting article

Fred Quimby · 12-30-2005, 11:46 AM

If your paying $30 per click you deserve everything you get.

Cory W · 12-30-2005, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fred Quimby

If your paying $30 per click you deserve everything you get.

I assumed that was a mistake.

I think they meant 30 cents.

Wiredguy???

Cory W · 12-30-2005, 11:51 AM

How often do you think competitors attempt to drain ad campaign funds?

fris · 12-30-2005, 11:51 AM

http://img133.imagevenue.com/img.php...26_adsense.jpg

Cory W · 12-30-2005, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fris

http://img133.imagevenue.com/img.php...26_adsense.jpg

Damn....

fris · 12-30-2005, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WEG Cory

Damn....

thats just one thing thats happening. you would be suprised what else is, mainstream and adult.

WiredGuy · 12-30-2005, 11:55 AM

Nothing wrong with paying $30/click, its all about supply and demand. For example, mesothelioma has always been one of the top bid keywords, its hovering around $12 right now, but nevertheless, its supply and demand that drive up the bid prices:

http://uv.bidtool.overture.com/d/sea...=us&lang=en_US

$5 submissions · 01-01-2006, 06:48 AM

I'm sure there will be new anti-click fraud measures being introduced soon. People paying $400 a share will definitely demand a better system. I only see it getting better.

Screaming · 01-01-2006, 08:48 AM

Great read. And sure, 30 bucks a click happens. mesothelioma Ofcourse is the one that pops into everyones head, but tons of others worth more exsist.

Not sharing what they are ofcourse, but some words make mesothelioma look like childs play.

Theo · 01-01-2006, 11:58 AM

I havent read the article yes, I'll do when i return......it wont destroy the industry for many reasons i'll analyze later on.

MrChips · 01-01-2006, 04:55 PM

They are spoiling the internet - they WILL get spotted - the only trouble is Americans are sooooooooooooo fucking thick it takes a lonnnnnnng time for them to realise stuff.

Most yanks at the mo probably go "gooooo - lookeeee at the ads by the goooooglers - arent they lovely".

DaddyHalbucks · 01-01-2006, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WiredGuy

Nothing wrong with paying $30/click, its all about supply and demand. For example, mesothelioma has always been one of the top bid keywords, its hovering around $12 right now, but nevertheless, its supply and demand that drive up the bid prices:

http://uv.bidtool.overture.com/d/sea...=us&lang=en_US

Mesothelioma used to be $50 a click.

$50 >> $12 is a big drop.

Click fraud is a big problem.

WiredGuy · 01-01-2006, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyHalbucks

Mesothelioma used to be $50 a click.

$50 >> $12 is a big drop.

Click fraud is a big problem.

Overture lost a lot of their good traffic. They didn't drop 80% in price because of fraudulent clicks, the dip is attributable to losing some of their higher quality search partners like AOL and replacing them with sub-par providers.
WG

baddog · 01-01-2006, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WEG Cory

I assumed that was a mistake.

I think they meant 30 cents.

Wiredguy???

There are words that cost a lot more than $30 a click

kenny · 01-01-2006, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyHalbucks

Mesothelioma used to be $50 a click.

$50 >> $12 is a big drop.

Click fraud is a big problem.

This thread will probably cost that company $1000 from all the webmasters going to look at it - lol

Peaches · 01-01-2006, 05:29 PM

Am I just completely out of the loop? This is the first time I've even seen the word "Mesothelioma"!!

WiredGuy · 01-01-2006, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peaches

Am I just completely out of the loop? This is the first time I've even seen the word "Mesothelioma"!!

Big money in it. I remember first time I heard of it, I was like wtf is that? After that, its been one of the highest bid keywords ever.

WG

kenny · 01-01-2006, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peaches

Am I just completely out of the loop? This is the first time I've even seen the word "Mesothelioma"!!

Everybody knows Mesothelioma..

Have you been living under a rocK?

lol.. I have no idea what that is either

Cory W · 01-01-2006, 05:33 PM

I had to look it up.

Are they bidding for treatments? I assume the high-value of the treatment?

Peaches · 01-01-2006, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WiredGuy

Big money in it. I remember first time I heard of it, I was like wtf is that? After that, its been one of the highest bid keywords ever.

WG

Amazing.

$5 submissions · 01-01-2006, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WEG Cory

I had to look it up.

Are they bidding for treatments? I assume the high-value of the treatment?

No. Law firms bid the keyword high because they are looking for clients that have this condition. Apparently, given its highly specific method of contraction, mesothelioma suits are easier to prosecute and get settlements from.

V_RocKs · 01-01-2006, 05:52 PM

If you are successful right now with Adwords campaigns, you can be even more successful with Adsense campaigns...

pr0 · 01-01-2006, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrChips

They are spoiling the internet - they WILL get spotted - the only trouble is Americans are sooooooooooooo fucking thick it takes a lonnnnnnng time for them to realise stuff.

Most yanks at the mo probably go "gooooo - lookeeee at the ads by the goooooglers - arent they lovely".

speak english, its "thick headed"

hershie · 01-01-2006, 06:06 PM

Great article. Where they say moving to a CPA format will decrease fraud isn't necessarily so though. I am experiencing about 60% fraud on several of the CPA networks for my campaigns.

Theo · 01-01-2006, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soul_Rebel

I havent read the article yes, I'll do when i return......it wont destroy the industry for many reasons i'll analyze later on.

I read it and didn't change my mind. CF has existed since ever and although those behind it have been more sophisticated lately, PPCs have increased protection methods. It counts for 25% (according to article) of total clicks you receive because engines allow it to happen. The % is a controlable-allowed fraud. PPC model is far away from collapsing, it hasn't reach a peak level and it won't adjust any time soon.

Manga1 · 01-01-2006, 06:26 PM

None of this should be new to adult webmasters. Back in the toplist and cj days it was pretty common to get hit by hitbots. Hell, many big sites in those days got big by using hitbots. Back then the traffic scripts were really vulnerable to hitbots.

A few years ago I went on a camping trip and when I came back I checked my Adwords campaigns and saw a massive spike in traffic which cost me thousands of dollars. From my cj days I knew someone nailed me with a hitbot. I complained to Google and after an investigation I got all my money back plus an extra $300 credit for my troubles.

You shouldn't be advertising on the content network in Adwords anyway. The traffic is crap and you open yourself up to clickfraud as well. Same with Overture. You should always turn off Content Match and Advanced Match in Overture.

Click fraud won't kill ppc. PPC has been around since the 90s and click fraud has been around since then too. This article is mostly for the newbies. This is all old news to anybody who's been doing ppc for a few years and should definitely not be anything new to anyone who's been around adult for a while.

warlock5 · 01-01-2006, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by $5 submissions

I'm sure there will be new anti-click fraud measures being introduced soon. People paying $400 a share will definitely demand a better system. I only see it getting better.

Its the advertisers that will demand a better system -- Google is profiting from click fraud although its hurting from it to some extent too, because of scared off advertisers.

beemk · 01-01-2006, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 8 Characters

I hope it does destroy the industry. They are ruining the internet. In five years every single website will have google adsense or something similar slapped onto it, and it's damn hideous.

thats a pretty ignorant thing to say considering 90% of the people on this board make a living off of website advertisements.

rowan · 01-01-2006, 08:39 PM

I can't see a CPA model working for adwords, they would either have to force everyone to use a proprietary backend to reliably track sales (losing a good chunk of advertisers in the process), or rely on the (dis)honesty of advertisers to report sales back to google. CPA also means that google wears the risk of varying conversions rather than the ad buyer.

seeric · 01-01-2006, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Screaming

Great read. And sure, 30 bucks a click happens. mesothelioma Ofcourse is the one that pops into everyones head, but tons of others worth more exsist.

Not sharing what they are ofcourse, but some words make mesothelioma look like childs play.

it was as high as 75 a click

12-30-2005, 11:06 AM	#1
Cory W Deeply shallow Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Hollywood, Ca. Posts: 9,133	Click fraud, google ad sense fraud: Great article on possible economic demise. Google will end 2005 with $6.1 billion in revenue. About 99 percent of that revenue comes from keyword ads (over 56 percent from AdWords, according to the company's most recent quarterly financial statement, and 43 percent from AdSense), making Google a bigger recipient of ad dollars than any television network or newspaper chain. All of which is to say that little blue text links, a type of advertising that barely existed five years ago, are poised to become the single most important form of marketing in the US - unless click fraud ruins it. But some observers, like Holcomb, believe that click fraud is "a billion-dollar mess" that "has the potential of destroying the entire industry." http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/14.01/fraud.html __________________ ICQ: 292310358 Offering writing and content services (mainstream). Marketing for L3 Payments

12-30-2005, 11:21 AM	#3
vvq Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: TrafficGigolos.com Posts: 2,732	the house of cards will come tumbling down sooner or later. __________________ SQUIRTING - LESBIAN SPANKING - TITTY FUCKING - WET PANTIES - MORE We offer free hosting, your own designer (works for free), and unsaturated content for gallery and free site submitters. Just contact me! E-mail: [email protected]

12-30-2005, 11:35 AM	#4
WiredGuy Pounding Googlebot Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 34,479	I know I'm paying for a ton of fraudulent clicks, but there is very little we can do. You can complain and bitch every time it happens to Google (or the respective PPC source), maybe get a refund, maybe not. Or, just absorb it into the cost of doing business. Unfortunately the latter is easier. WG __________________ I play with Google.

12-30-2005, 11:38 AM	#5
JFK FUBAR the ORIGINATOR Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: FUBARLAND Posts: 67,374	intresting article __________________ FUBAR Webmasters - The FUBAR Times - FUBAR Webmasters Mobile - FUBARTV.XXX For promo opps contact jfk at fubarwebmasters dot com

12-30-2005, 11:46 AM	#6
Fred Quimby Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 5,430	If your paying $30 per click you deserve everything you get. __________________

12-30-2005, 11:08 AM	#2
8 Characters So Fucking Banned Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: This month's character: Dirty Franck Posts: 2,336	I hope it does destroy the industry. They are ruining the internet. In five years every single website will have google adsense or something similar slapped onto it, and it's damn hideous.

12-30-2005, 11:51 AM	#8
Cory W Deeply shallow Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Hollywood, Ca. Posts: 9,133	How often do you think competitors attempt to drain ad campaign funds? __________________ ICQ: 292310358 Offering writing and content services (mainstream). Marketing for L3 Payments

12-30-2005, 11:51 AM	#9
fris Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 55,372	http://img133.imagevenue.com/img.php...26_adsense.jpg __________________ Since 1999: 69 Adult Industry awards for Best Hosting Company and professional excellence. WP Stuff

12-30-2005, 11:55 AM	#12
WiredGuy Pounding Googlebot Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 34,479	Nothing wrong with paying $30/click, its all about supply and demand. For example, mesothelioma has always been one of the top bid keywords, its hovering around $12 right now, but nevertheless, its supply and demand that drive up the bid prices: http://uv.bidtool.overture.com/d/sea...=us&lang=en_US __________________ I play with Google.

01-01-2006, 06:48 AM	#13
$5 submissions I help you SUCCEED Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: The Pearl of the Orient Seas Posts: 32,195	I'm sure there will be new anti-click fraud measures being introduced soon. People paying $400 a share will definitely demand a better system. I only see it getting better. __________________ Need a NON-ADULT income stream? We build your YOUTUBE CHANNEL for only $20 per video! For Hire: $3/hour or $400 per month Marketing Specialist Virtual Assistants

01-01-2006, 08:48 AM	#14
Screaming I can change this!!!!! Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 18,972	Great read. And sure, 30 bucks a click happens. mesothelioma Ofcourse is the one that pops into everyones head, but tons of others worth more exsist. Not sharing what they are ofcourse, but some words make mesothelioma look like childs play. __________________

01-01-2006, 11:58 AM	#15
Theo HAL 9000 Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 34,515	I havent read the article yes, I'll do when i return......it wont destroy the industry for many reasons i'll analyze later on.

01-01-2006, 04:55 PM	#16
MrChips Confirmed User Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 1,504	They are spoiling the internet - they WILL get spotted - the only trouble is Americans are sooooooooooooo fucking thick it takes a lonnnnnnng time for them to realise stuff. Most yanks at the mo probably go "gooooo - lookeeee at the ads by the goooooglers - arent they lovely".

01-01-2006, 05:29 PM	#21
Peaches Old broad Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Away Posts: 13,933	Am I just completely out of the loop? This is the first time I've even seen the word "Mesothelioma"!!

01-01-2006, 05:33 PM	#24
Cory W Deeply shallow Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Hollywood, Ca. Posts: 9,133	I had to look it up. Are they bidding for treatments? I assume the high-value of the treatment? __________________ ICQ: 292310358 Offering writing and content services (mainstream). Marketing for L3 Payments

01-01-2006, 05:52 PM	#27
V_RocKs Damn Right I Kiss Ass! Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Cowtown, USA Posts: 32,409	If you are successful right now with Adwords campaigns, you can be even more successful with Adsense campaigns...

01-01-2006, 06:06 PM	#29
hershie Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 4,642	Great article. Where they say moving to a CPA format will decrease fraud isn't necessarily so though. I am experiencing about 60% fraud on several of the CPA networks for my campaigns.

01-01-2006, 06:26 PM	#31
Manga1 Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Malakiaville Posts: 952	None of this should be new to adult webmasters. Back in the toplist and cj days it was pretty common to get hit by hitbots. Hell, many big sites in those days got big by using hitbots. Back then the traffic scripts were really vulnerable to hitbots. A few years ago I went on a camping trip and when I came back I checked my Adwords campaigns and saw a massive spike in traffic which cost me thousands of dollars. From my cj days I knew someone nailed me with a hitbot. I complained to Google and after an investigation I got all my money back plus an extra $300 credit for my troubles. You shouldn't be advertising on the content network in Adwords anyway. The traffic is crap and you open yourself up to clickfraud as well. Same with Overture. You should always turn off Content Match and Advanced Match in Overture. Click fraud won't kill ppc. PPC has been around since the 90s and click fraud has been around since then too. This article is mostly for the newbies. This is all old news to anybody who's been doing ppc for a few years and should definitely not be anything new to anyone who's been around adult for a while.

01-01-2006, 08:39 PM	#34
rowan Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 17,393	I can't see a CPA model working for adwords, they would either have to force everyone to use a proprietary backend to reliably track sales (losing a good chunk of advertisers in the process), or rely on the (dis)honesty of advertisers to report sales back to google. CPA also means that google wears the risk of varying conversions rather than the ad buyer.