Self-Help is a JOKE? (Article)

[$5 submissions]

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/...sunday-opinion

"....with such highly visible exponents of latter-day empowerment as Robbins, Winfrey and Winfrey's principal protege, Dr. Phil McGraw, fanning the flames, a generation has come of age on the belief that a positive mental attitude will carry the day. Far from helping his disciples, the empowerment guru does them a disservice by making them "think positive" about a situation in which the odds of success are exceedingly low."

What do you guys think? I think there IS some value in self-help and self-empowerment. It DOES have to be coupled with competency and CONCRETE ACTION. Why do you think many sales departments and real estate companies spend MILLIONS every year for self-confidence/self-empowerment training?

[RRRED]

I just said this in another thread...

"Until you can just "fuck it" you will get nowhwere."

Sure it helps. You can do way better business when you get your personal shit in order. That's a fact.

[eroswebmaster]

Originally Posted by $5 submissions

What do you guys think? I think there IS some value in self-help and self-empowerment. It DOES have to be coupled with competency and CONCRETE ACTION. Why do you think many sales departments and real estate companies spend MILLIONS every year for self-confidence/self-empowerment training?

I agree with what you're saying Gene, but I also understandn where this article is coming from.

Back when I was a kid and played pee wee football at the end of the year there was a championship team, and 2nd place and the rest didn't make it.

When my younger brother *7 years younger* started playing sports everyone got a fucking trophy, even the losers. It was all about building self esteem.

I was just telling my dad this the other day, that there is something wrong with the kids who came out of the late 50's, 60's and on, in that we all feel like we're owed something.

We were always told that we could be anything we wanted to be when we grew up, but were never told we would have to work hard for it.

So we all grew up thinking that instead of being garbage collectors, policemen, grocery store managers that we would be millionaires, movie stars, rock stars, sports stars because that's what we wanted to be.

So what do we have now? A bunch of spoiled rotten brats who are unsatisfied with their lives, thinking they deserve more than just providing for their families.

You hear it on these boards when people make fun of others for shopping at Wal-Mart, or buying $20 perfume.

They think we're all supposed to be sitting in $500K condos with 72 inch plasmas on the walls.

No, that's not how real life is.

We need more men like our grandfathers. Guys who were willing to put in 30 years at a company as not even middle management, just workers. Ensuring that their families had a roof over their heads.

Not a world full of spoiled brats who only value their toys.

[Mike Okitch]

It's not a joke but it is overused term.

Go and speak to any Amway/Quixtar member and tell them that their business is a sham. They will dismiss you as being negative. They will also accuse you of being negative if you say that their plans of opening an ice cream shop in antarctica is a bad idea.

Like with everything else in life, things should be taken on a case by case basis and intelligence rather than mere positive thoughts should come into play.

[eroswebmaster]

I will say tho', that there are people who lead such negative lives that are in perpetual self defeat, or self destruct that some motivational speakers could very well help.

[Darkland]

You are right, I have always thought if you cant or are not willing to help yourself who the fucks gonna do it for you??? Thats whats wrong with the world today, people find it much easier for others to be held responsible for their lives, actions, etc. instead of taking control of it themselves. I am all for the "Self Help Gurus", people need to start thinking and acting for themselves, NOT like what the writer of that article states who is obviously fatalistic in his views if he considers Positive Thinking passe. For some reason our society seems hung up on depression and other types of self defeating diagnosis that most doctors rather medicate than teach how to manage. Check the statitiscs world wide and you will find we are the leaders in "Loss of Self". Sorry for the ramble or if I got a little off point.

[$5 submissions]

Very insightful and thoughtful post, Eros.

1) I agree with the point that the whole "self-esteem" movement has created a generation that feels that they are owed something.

2) There is merit in the "Old School" system of proving one's worth and working for everything one has to one's name.

3) Although I do see the value in the self-help and self-actualization movements, your observations and the article I posted above do point to the fact that, in of itself, it does not work. Moreover, we live in an INSTANT GRATIFICATION society. Our current timeframe and expectation deadlines doesn't mesh with REAL self-improvement. The latter takes TIME and DISCIPLINE. DISCIPLINE and SACRIFICE aren't really values that you hear discussed widely in mainstream media. But those are the values that propelled earlier generations of Americans to a comfortable standard of living. Asian immigrant kids from Korea, China, and India are the latest practitioners of this value system and it shows.

4) There is value in self-help but I think it is just ONE tool and one element. For it to contribute consistently and effectively it must be factored in with other values and tools.

Originally Posted by eroswebmaster

I agree with what you're saying Gene, but I also understandn where this article is coming from.

Back when I was a kid and played pee wee football at the end of the year there was a championship team, and 2nd place and the rest didn't make it.

When my younger brother *7 years younger* started playing sports everyone got a fucking trophy, even the losers. It was all about building self esteem.

I was just telling my dad this the other day, that there is something wrong with the kids who came out of the late 50's, 60's and on, in that we all feel like we're owed something.

We were always told that we could be anything we wanted to be when we grew up, but were never told we would have to work hard for it.

So we all grew up thinking that instead of being garbage collectors, policemen, grocery store managers that we would be millionaires, movie stars, rock stars, sports stars because that's what we wanted to be.

So what do we have now? A bunch of spoiled rotten brats who are unsatisfied with their lives, thinking they deserve more than just providing for their families.

You hear it on these boards when people make fun of others for shopping at Wal-Mart, or buying $20 perfume.

They think we're all supposed to be sitting in $500K condos with 72 inch plasmas on the walls.

No, that's not how real life is.

We need more men like our grandfathers. Guys who were willing to put in 30 years at a company as not even middle management, just workers. Ensuring that their families had a roof over their heads.

Not a world full of spoiled brats who only value their toys.

[reynold]

Originally Posted by $5 submissions

[url]What do you guys think? I think there IS some value in self-help and self-empowerment. It DOES have to be coupled with competency and CONCRETE ACTION. Why do you think many sales departments and real estate companies spend MILLIONS every year for self-confidence/self-empowerment training?

It's not a Joke!
they need to empower their agents to be more confident in selling their stuff.