Indeed :1orglaugh

Fuck drinking, i hate that shit.

I only smoke weed baby!! :thumbsup

i don't drink at all... (at least no water!) :D lol!

It's about fuckin time you called somebody an idiot.


I think the twelve step program is a bunch or bullshit and contradicts itself! In the end only you can solve your drinking problem.. Yeah, help along the way may make a lot of sense. Often there is a reason that is driving you to drink. Depression is one of those reasons.

So a big answers to getting over it would be to solve the underlying problems. Going to a 30 day dry-out center also makes sense. Some of those places are fucked up and are there to just push religion down peoples throat which they drop over time anyway and then it may be back to drinking.

If you have a drinking problem now and get over it, you will be a different person in the end. This often means the end of relationships and friendships. "You just ain't as much fun since you stopped drinking".

Drunk or sober, Merry Christmas to all who celebrate it.

Not I. I haven't touched alcohol in ages. My business gives me all the buzz and excitement I need :)

Anyone with a disorder needs to take responsibility for themselves.

Addicts are not born with a beer bottle, shot glass, syringe, pipe or straw in their hands. They may be predisposed to their condition due to hereditary or environment. But, the addict must seek that to which they are addicted.

Addiction is a disorder, not a disease. Addiction may cause disease. Addicts using needles may contract infections or AIDS. Addiction to alcohol can cause liver diseases. Addiction to amphetamines can cause malnutrition and weight loss. Tobacco addiction may cause cancer. Addiction to food can make you a fat ass.

All disease is not caused by addiction. All addicts do not contract diseases. But, many do because they are unable to make the decision to quit before they cause themselves damage.

Addiction is a serious problem for the individual that needs to be addressed - the drunk driver who kills, the junkie who steals to support their habit - before it becomes a societal problem.

"due to hereditary or environment" should be "due to hereditary or environmental factors".

It`s not about pointing a finger and say who needs to stop drinking its about people looking at themselfs and be happy with whom they see. Sometime changes needs to be done in someones life but THEY will be the only one that will be able to make those changes.

There;s many addiction that destroy a persons moral and health. Drugs, Alcohol, Food, Sex, Gambling, Violence... Hell I think on this board the biggest addiction is finger pointing and gossiping, wonder if there`s any meetings for that ;-)

I made recent decision in my life and I can tell you my friend I could not be a happier man.

Merry Xmas day everybody, have fun be safe and tell someone you love them, for hate is probably the worst shit feeling in the world. Leave your garbage and hatred towards others where it should be, on the curb with the rest of the shit to be picked up and brought to the dump.

I do probably drink too much, other than me, I think AMP is a good pick ;)

AHAHAha! :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

It's an addiction, not a disease. Some people are obviously more predisposed to becoming addicted than others. In the end it's a choice which is why things like AA work for some people. It provides them with an environment that discourages the addictive behavior.

I haven't touched a drink in over 7 months. Not my liver, but other things inside me started to go crazy like my pancreas and I could not keep down food the day after drinking. Its not just your liver or your mind it affects, it gets much worse.

And I feel better than ever. Its very difficult to get over the hump, but after about a month or two you realize how much time you lose drinking. My mind is clear and I don't have any issues dealing with things I need to.

But I don't preach, its just a personal choice. I used to drink a lot for my size. Often a case of beer a week and I am under 125 pounds, and that was when I cut back. I feel healthier, more energy, and my body functions much better now in general. But you have to want it, its not something that anyone can convince you to do. I drank heavily from about 18-30 and I only drank to get wasted. So its like my drink tickets ran out, and I have more important things to tend to now in my life anyways.

Oh yeah, and I also did the math. If I drank once a week, and took the next day off, thats two days a week. Four times a month/8 days, over three months is 24 days. So in 90 days time I was wasting 24 days, which is close to 30% of my life. And again, that was only drinking once a week. Twice a week doubles all those numbers. And being sober all the time, my productivity when working has easily gone up at least 30%.

I have turned my efforts elsewhere, and love business more than ever. I've been wasted so much in my time its not like I can't remember the feeling anyways. :)

and Merry Xmas Sleazy. :pimp

working, working, working :Oh crap

like it was the most important thing that mattered in life

time and energy "saved" with non drinking could be spent on so many different things ( hobbies etc ) and you chose to spend it on work

ah well, everyone is free and makes the choices he(she) wants

Merry Xmas

if you start a post like this you have a problem and it has been on your mind

Wrong. And you choose to make negative assumptions and reply to people on a message board which is a waste of time too. Welcome back. :)

Working better I have much more time to relax, "non drinking."

And I forgot to address the thread title.

I went to a couple AA meetings years ago to see what it was all about. And this is not knocking it, because it does make some people happy. But what I discovered is that its basically a bunch of people who have replaced drinking with coffee, cigarettes, god, and meetings where they indulge in those things.

Being an atheist, non-smoker and only a morning coffee drinker it didn't work for me. Aside from the hearing the alcoholic life stories which are interesting, it just was not enjoyable for me. I do other things like read, art stuff, cook, etc and believe that going to an AA meeting is not going to make someone quit drinking. Well, unless they prefer to hang out with christians while smoking and drinking coffee instead of getting drunk.

A lot of good input from all in this post. :thumbsup

I like others once partied hard, and drank more than I should have. I had gotten caught in the cycle as well, drink, fun, hung over, sick, drink, work, fun, hungover. For me, the body started giving me reason to quit.

Friends, family, nothing could stop me. It was my life, and my decision. For the longest time the most I'd admit to is alcohol abuse. That's all it was, I wasn't an alcoholic. I would never go to AA or anything like that. No way. I did not have a problem.

Well, I did not hard party as long as some whom have shared their stories, and mine was more like 6 years hardcore, and then a few years of back and forth before giving it up completely. For me, the cardioversions because I became allergic to alcohol was the kicker. They called it holiday heart or some shit, but basically the alcohol would effect something in my body (like thyroid or something) and it would get my heart racing a day or two after a hard partying weekend. So I would have to go into the E.R. and get cardioverted back to a normal heart rhythm.

Well the doc told me hard liquor was probably doing it, and if I was going to drink, illiminate all hard liquor, and drink in moderation. So I did that, and for 5 years no more Jack, and hard stuff. Also no more trips to E.R.. But I would still drink atleast once a month and go on benders for 3-5 days.

Well last time I drank like that, I really pushed it on a 7 or 10 day drinkfest. Not getting hammered, just drinking that many days in a row. So when it came time to dry out, you guessed it. Back in E.R. for a cardioversion.

That was the last time. For me there were a number of factors that made me want to stop. One, my sister and neice were there this time. So, although I had went through this a good 10 times prior, this was the first time I could see my decisions effected other people. Having to look at the concern, and realizing that they could lose me one of these times if I did not come back.

For those who do not know what a cardioversion is, they have to stop, and restart your heart. It can be dangerous, and you have to sign a waiver so if you get a clot, stroke out, or just do not come back you can't sue.

Second, the fact the hangovers have gotten to where I can't handle them. This last time, I was severe dehydrated for a week and a half. Dump o' flames, and sick, bedridden, and the rest. No sleep because of the DT's and all that fun. So the physical jut became too much for me to bear for a few hours of so called fun.

Now that I have been sober for I do not know how long now, I can tell you a few things from my perspective. One, I could never go to AA or someplace where I had to talk about it all the time, and keep reopening that chapter in my life. Since becoming sober, I rarely think about it. Even when out at the clubs, bars, or old haunts. The only time it creeps up in my mind, and I have that craving is being around others who talk about it all the time. So those kinda boo-hoo meetings are not for me. They may help some people, and I am not saying they are stronger, or weaker than me. But I do not need to talk about it over and over.

Second, like others have said, there were underlying issues. Which once sober, I resolved, illiminating the escapism. I think with most addiction, there is always something underlying the acting out, escaping, or self medicating.

Third, which alcoholism is classified as a disease, I do not think of it that way. I think of it as an addiction period. I believe most of the addicts out there, so pick your poision.. booze, drugs, cigs.. is a social, and mental issue. Not a physical one until you become an addict. Normally most people seem to get involved in smoking, drinking, or drugs through SOCIAL issues. It becomes a mental one when you associate booze with the bar, for example. I can't go to the bar WITHOUT booze. Or, you can't hang out wiht so and so because they will be firing up a bong, and I want some.

For most people, giving up something means you have to change your behavior to the point you do not hang out where you used to, with the same friends you had, and so on. So it's a social, behavior which leads to the mental and physical over time because you can't seperate the one from the other, and you've abused it to the point your body wants it.

Lastly, noone can make you quit. Not your gf, you wife, kids, friends, family, whatever. You have to want to quit, and commit to staying clean. That is the only way it works. The treatment centers (from what I hear, never been myself) are 30-60-90 days to get that shit cleaned out of your system first, than you can see life through a clear mind, and then they help you find new ways to cope with the underlying issue(s). But from there, you have to commit to a life of sobrity. So it's kinda like retraining you to deal with life, once they get your head clear, and hopefully you are ready to listen.

Make no mistake, regardless of the addiction it's a tough road. It sounds like a lot of people who've posted in this thread have taken enough steps to leave it far behind in the rearview. Bravo to you, and your loved ones.

One last thing, I can't speak for everyone. But I think the reason a lot of treatment programs focus on religon is because you need faith, and something more to help pull you out of the tailspin. A lot of people dealing with addiction have a feeling of loneliness. Faith can fill that void. For years I strayed from the church, and I am not a reborn anything. But I know I refound my faith going through that tough time, and while I am spiritual, I do not preach to others. But if you can't believe in yourself, then belief in the Lord might be the spark that lights the fire and gets you on another path in life w/o drugs and alcohol.

Just my :2 cents:

alcoholism ain't nothing to joke about - 5 years ago we buried my best friend's dad - my second father. A rich eccetric man who spent his life covering up his demons and social shyness with Johnny Walker Red and wine - at least a bottle of Johnny a day and a bottle of wine or more for the 20 years I knew him. Of course we all saw him going downhill badly for years - there were a couple of interventions where he went into detox and treatment but they never lasted long. Anyway one day he just went into a stupor - it looked like a stroke - he was 'gone'. Doctors were stumped - they finally diagnosed him with Korsikoff's Syndrom(not sure of the name, begins with K and is Russian sounding) - his brain was pickled - permanently - by the decades of alcohol - with no way back, no cure or treatment - a vegetable essentially until he died a couple of years later.

as for other drugs - there are tons of seriously fucked up 20 and 30 somethings from ectasy - you don't hear about them because they are their families' problem now - their raver days long behind them.

moderation is everything in life - if you don't have the discipline to moderate your own behaviour - get help.

Me after Vegas :Oh crap

the disease model of addiction is debatable both ways. quite a bit has been written on it each way.

its really hard to say anything is wrong or for the weak, that can bring a person from misery to happiness. join a program. join a church. join a community, sell books in an airport, dive into work. join a gym. be part of something that makes you happy.

i will be the first one to say that there is no right way or wrong way to live a better life. i do think that there are heathier things to rely on other than alcohol.

many many people drink without a problem.

100 hundred DRUNKS

100 bottles of beer on the wall...

I think everyone should go to AA. Why the hell not? It's a damn good learning experience.

Cheers.

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh

Wow, lot's of armchair alchoholism experts here.

Fact is that alcholism is a disease not a addiction. Ask any doctor, any medical group, any social worker, any expert and they will tell you this. The AMA has recognized alcholism as a disease for some time now. The genome project is even supposedly close to isolating the gene that can trigger alchoholism.

There is no one sympton that defines a alchoholic, but the most common sign is if you get a buzz and have a hard time stopping then chances are you are a alchy. Of course there are all the other indicaters that you may have, letting booze interfere with your job, relationships, etc. Being able to not pick up the first drink means nothing, many alchys can go months even years without drinking. It's their ability to put down the drink that matters.

Crack, cocaine, etc addictions are NOT diseases, there is a big difference. Alcholics and addicts suffer from totally different problems.

not sure i agree that drug users cann't be classified as diseases

i disagree as well. my dad was aa. he's been clean for about 35 years. stopped going to meetings about 20 years ago. started havin wine with dinner about 10 years ago. he never has more than a glass and a half. rarly has a drink at night - then only one. he says he just doesn't feel the same urges he used to. but he said he didn't start feeling like that till he was sober for over 20 years.

:thumbsup

The Irish pimp knows his shit....he walks the walk......

happy holidays brotha...

Great post, enlighten and discussion is good....it?s the very heart of recovery.

Religion is really not part of the deal, "turn your life over to God ...as YOU understand him" That is the great fail safe message to choose what ever you choose your higher power is...just so long as its NOT YOU.

I consider myself Spiritual....the mere definition of the two could be written like this:

Religion is for those who don?t want to go to hell.....

Spirituality is for those who have been to hell and don?t want to go back!


Another thing I found over the years for me were the very reasons we do this to ourselves and why? I think for me it was a deep rooted ?I don?t deserve it? thought of myself. I used drugs and booze to just sabotage all good that came my way?some do it with food, gambling and other things that can make you self destruct.

Much better word than disease could be epidemic

:helpme

"Spirituality is for those who have been to hell and don?t want to go back!"

A fucking Men my brother ;-)

AA is for quitters :thumbsup

alcholism isnt a disease.

its pretty damn good sign of stupidity and carelessness though.

My sister died of ovarian cancer at age 27.
Watching her slip away from us in her hospital bed, and when she would stare at me, knowing she was going to die. Her eyes said hopelessness and fear... She was so scared. If she could have done something to stop it, like something as easy as quitting drinking. She would have done it. She would done anything to hold on to see her kids grow up.

Alcohol isnt a disease, and I dont feel sorry for people who have a choice and choose to slowly kill themselves and destroy other peoples lives around them. Calling it a disease just gives these idiots something else to blame it on, other then themselves.

Interesting... someone I used to work with, years ago, ended up doing a stint in rehab for partying, mostly to appease his family, since he wasn't behaving very nicely at all.

Now, years later, he's got a new family, can have a few glasses of wine with dinner or cocktails out and about, no issues at all with the partying taking over.

He really just needed a new life, it seems.

my penis is itchy