Business Thread... SoloGirl Paysite discussion. Your take on this..

[Shap]

Originally Posted by webgurl

Yep this is the "T" in true and rebills is where its at!!
No wonder magnatique says you're the smartest dude he knows

Ahhh Thanks. I try to keep that a secret though, helps minimize the icqs i get

[Shap]

Originally Posted by MediumPimpin

If I had money to burn right now I would make a model of the month site each week would feature a new hot talent then rotate them out and back in if they were popular with members, and if a model really stands out, then spin her off as a solo site.

Now if I had that idea before tonight, but never started it, do I still owe you for the rights to using it? (Just kidding )

[MediumPimpin]

Originally Posted by shap

Now if I had that idea before tonight, but never started it, do I still owe you for the rights to using it? (Just kidding )

Lol, with as many members as you have, you know what model the members want, with our mega sites they tell us, it's just comes down to if you can land the models they want

[Shap]

Originally Posted by MediumPimpin

Lol, with as many members as you have, you know what model the members want, with our mega sites they tell us, it's just comes down to if you can land the models they want

Ahh The power of member feedback

[DeanCapture]

[Shap]

Originally Posted by DeanCapture

Hey Dean ;)

[Biggy2]

A: Failure to see the bigger picture, and understand the whole business environment.

"People think they can keep throwing shit at a wall, and eventually something will stick." I cannot take credit for this quote, but a very smart and successful webmaster said this to me recently.

[mailman]

Good Post Shap

But I think kevin posted my thoughts also.. mind you a word of the wise just because someone posts on a board and talks about how great their site is please dont always belive it you would be shocked at some of the numbers these girls have!!

But hands down crissymoran.com shes the real deal!!

[Nurgle]

what interests me is how many sales does one need to pull a month to sustain a solo girl site considering what webmasters get paid. processing fees. productions costs + fee for the girl.. whats left over to make it worthwhile?

cheers
Nurgle

[kacy]

I agree with what someone else said about this being another explosion like the amateur craze was. When I started certifiedamateurs.com in 99 the amateur thing was huge! It still is huge, but doesn't have quite the exposure that it did. It think you would surprised at how well sites like dreamnet.com and southern-charms.com do for themselves. Its because the girls, all kinds of different girls--every day average girls, work the sites themselves. The sites are not slick tours, they are very amateurish looking. This reminds of the old HiRise/MikeAI days amateur model sites they did this way back in the day, but made their sites looked like the girls created the site and runs them theirselves. Amateur sites work because they are not models by any means, the surfers feel an attraction to them because they are real to them, not unobtainable.

[V_RocKs]

Do most of the solo-girls webmasters make a ton of money?

No. I know they don't. You would be shocked at just how little most of them make.

Think less than most newbie gallery submitters make.

Most webmasters have no idea how to promote a solo-girl site and Dre gave then a few good tips... Hopefully they will take note.

Out of about 40 solo-girl sites that I promote, only a few actually convert regularly.

From what I can gather, they are usually sites where the girl is HEAVELY involved or perhaps it just appears she is (diary, forum discussions... all with a 500lb man in Indonesia)...

To many webmasters and affiliates get caught up in hype.

You shouldn't be too suprised that most copy cat sites don't make shit. Think of all of the Brazil sites that came out after Mike in Brazil. Only 2 of the copies make money, all of the others lose money.

A good rule of thumb for an affiliate looking for something to promote is to read the URL. If it reads like shit, the site sucks ass too 99% of the time.

[V_RocKs]

Ohh yeah...

One more thing... Before you contract a solo girl, make sure she is not just hot to you and 15% of your friends. She needs to be hot to 85% of them. When I say hot, I mean RED-HOT! She needs to be fucking insanely cute. That is another common thread among the sites I promote that regularly convert.

Right now about 85% of the girls coming out each month look like butter faced trash. I talked to a webmaster who I won't mention about a girl he promotes. He thought she was smoking hot. He was so fucking excited to show her around at Internext. He thought everyone would be wooing over her. Wrong! Almost everyone he talked to said she wasn't all that. Her site never went anywhere. I asked him if he went to everyone he knew first before going ahead with her and he said, "No, I thought she was all that and a bag of chips, so I was going to SURPRISE everyone with her. Big mistake I guess."

Yeah, big mistake. Had he posted her here, he would have instantly been told she isn't solo girl material.

[AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE]

Insiteful V-Rocks
I do agree it is a good idea to get opinions before taking a girl to "The next level".

Also there are alot of girls out there that run there own sites but the reality is they have no idea about some of the ropes they goto follow, the real deal about traffic or "The bigger picture".

There are a ton of great solo girls out there doing it on there own, that can be said in full confidence so it is the lack of marketing and "Web Power". It is not thier fault at least they are trying it is just a mis understanding in the nature of the web.

I know a good program can make a girl a "web star", its been proven a few times already. So again looks do not matter 100%, it comes down to exposure and the intensity of the girls presence.

[V_RocKs]

That chick you are promoting, AlienQ, she is fucking hot!

[AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE]

Originally Posted by V_RocKs

That chick you are promoting, AlienQ, she is fucking hot!

AH

Thankies man, 2006 will be a good year

[Dugmor]

Originally Posted by shap

I don't know the exact history of paysites but my guess would be solo girl sites were the first type of paysites. Names that come to mind are Carol Cox and Danni Ashe. Both have been extremely successful and have been in our industry longer than 99% of us. They were successful because they were able to attract a market that was willing to pay money to see more and learn more about that girl. It gave the surfer an inside look to their life as well as some hot pics and movies. Both of those sites started as Single Model sites and eventually developed into full blown sites featuring many models. Why? I believe because it was the logical step for them to grow and maintain market share. With their competition offering more they had to increase what their member's got in order to remain competitive. If Danni were still a site about just Danni Ashe she'd have a SMALL fraction of the members she has today.

It has probably been close to 10 years since Carol Cox's site went live. Since then we've had a whole variety of paysites come out.]

I think this part is a lot to do with how I started my business .... and I used the same business models as Carol Cox..... the reason is I worked for Carol Cox for 2 years as one of her main in house content producers.

I started my company based on Sweet Dominique. I wanted to do a Non Nude paysite cuase I loved Non Nude. But building the site with personality like the way Carol Cox did it. I could have done a nude site ( Cuase Dominique shot nude ... I just never released the pictures and video ) ... as time when on I changed the look of the tour and used what was hot... The same as Lightspeeds tours..... and it worked.

So changing with the industry is exactly what you need to do. I also added a ton of content and shared the members area's because I spent so much money on getting that initial sale... I knew that I needed to retain the members as long as possible.


So in short... I started as a single girl site, grew into a network of sites..... but if you look at all the sites in our portfolio... most of my sites are single girl sites.

[Shap]

Originally Posted by mailman

Good Post Shap

But I think kevin posted my thoughts also.. mind you a word of the wise just because someone posts on a board and talks about how great their site is please dont always belive it you would be shocked at some of the numbers these girls have!!

But hands down crissymoran.com shes the real deal!!

EXACTLY. You can't believe what you read on gfy. Just because someone says it's converting at 1:4 doesn't mean it is.

[Shap]

Originally Posted by Dugmor

I think this part is a lot to do with how I started my business .... and I used the same business models as Carol Cox..... the reason is I worked for Carol Cox for 2 years as one of her main in house content producers.

I started my company based on Sweet Dominique. I wanted to do a Non Nude paysite cuase I loved Non Nude. But building the site with personality like the way Carol Cox did it. I could have done a nude site ( Cuase Dominique shot nude ... I just never released the pictures and video ) ... as time when on I changed the look of the tour and used what was hot... The same as Lightspeeds tours..... and it worked.

So changing with the industry is exactly what you need to do. I also added a ton of content and shared the members area's because I spent so much money on getting that initial sale... I knew that I needed to retain the members as long as possible.


So in short... I started as a single girl site, grew into a network of sites..... but if you look at all the sites in our portfolio... most of my sites are single girl sites.

I agree and I know you know the backend of things. Most people don't. Most people find a girl, shoot 50 sets, outsource a tour and bam they launch the site. No research. No understanding what works. You had the knowledge of what worked and how to make something successful. Even with that knowledge I'm guessing it was alot of hard work to make it work. That being said the people that do no research are rolling the dice hope the girl will do all the work.

[Shap]

Originally Posted by Nurgle

what interests me is how many sales does one need to pull a month to sustain a solo girl site considering what webmasters get paid. processing fees. productions costs + fee for the girl.. whats left over to make it worthwhile?

cheers
Nurgle

That depends on how much you want to make.

[Shap]

Originally Posted by kacy

I agree with what someone else said about this being another explosion like the amateur craze was. When I started certifiedamateurs.com in 99 the amateur thing was huge! It still is huge, but doesn't have quite the exposure that it did. It think you would surprised at how well sites like dreamnet.com and southern-charms.com do for themselves. Its because the girls, all kinds of different girls--every day average girls, work the sites themselves. The sites are not slick tours, they are very amateurish looking. This reminds of the old HiRise/MikeAI days amateur model sites they did this way back in the day, but made their sites looked like the girls created the site and runs them theirselves. Amateur sites work because they are not models by any means, the surfers feel an attraction to them because they are real to them, not unobtainable.

Exactly what i mentioned earlier. Those are (mega or at least multi model) sites that don't rely on one girl. It's a completely different business model than the companies throwing up one model and calling it a paysite.

[Shap]

Originally Posted by V_RocKs

Do most of the solo-girls webmasters make a ton of money?

No. I know they don't. You would be shocked at just how little most of them make.

Think less than most newbie gallery submitters make.

Most webmasters have no idea how to promote a solo-girl site and Dre gave then a few good tips... Hopefully they will take note.

Out of about 40 solo-girl sites that I promote, only a few actually convert regularly.

From what I can gather, they are usually sites where the girl is HEAVELY involved or perhaps it just appears she is (diary, forum discussions... all with a 500lb man in Indonesia)...

To many webmasters and affiliates get caught up in hype.

You shouldn't be too suprised that most copy cat sites don't make shit. Think of all of the Brazil sites that came out after Mike in Brazil. Only 2 of the copies make money, all of the others lose money.

A good rule of thumb for an affiliate looking for something to promote is to read the URL. If it reads like shit, the site sucks ass too 99% of the time.

I couldn't agree with you more. Great Post

[Shap]

Originally Posted by V_RocKs

Ohh yeah...

One more thing... Before you contract a solo girl, make sure she is not just hot to you and 15% of your friends. She needs to be hot to 85% of them. When I say hot, I mean RED-HOT! She needs to be fucking insanely cute. That is another common thread among the sites I promote that regularly convert.

Right now about 85% of the girls coming out each month look like butter faced trash. I talked to a webmaster who I won't mention about a girl he promotes. He thought she was smoking hot. He was so fucking excited to show her around at Internext. He thought everyone would be wooing over her. Wrong! Almost everyone he talked to said she wasn't all that. Her site never went anywhere. I asked him if he went to everyone he knew first before going ahead with her and he said, "No, I thought she was all that and a bag of chips, so I was going to SURPRISE everyone with her. Big mistake I guess."

Yeah, big mistake. Had he posted her here, he would have instantly been told she isn't solo girl material.

You bet. I think alot of people running the solo girl sites for the girl are doing so just to be close to the girl. I know one big name company that has managed to sign alot of girls but allegedly always tries to fuck them. That and they under deliver (because they have didley fuckin squat for traffic) and eventually most of their girls leave. And as a result over the past 2 years they've had alot of girls leave their program. However if you go by GFY everybody would think this company is huge LOL in reality they are nowhere near huge.

[Alex From San Diego]

Most solo girl sites typically consist of glorified strippers. There are two girls I promote and do well. I have tried many with little or no success.

[RogerV]

Originally Posted by shap

You bet. I think alot of people running the solo girl sites for the girl are doing so just to be close to the girl. I know one big name company that has managed to sign alot of girls but allegedly always tries to fuck them. That and they under deliver (because they have didley fuckin squat for traffic) and eventually most of their girls leave. And as a result over the past 2 years they've had alot of girls leave their program. However if you go by GFY everybody would think this company is huge LOL in reality they are nowhere near huge.

My neighbor and friend is blowing up the solo seen with twins and the hottest solo sites right now.. http://www.teenrevenue.com/

His numbers are amazing and he is everywhere

[Shap]

Originally Posted by RogerV

My neighbor and friend is blowing up the solo seen with twins and the hottest solo sites right now.. http://www.teenrevenue.com/

His numbers are amazing and he is everywhere

I've seen his sites. He knows what he's doing

[nastyboy1]

Funny but as I read through these posts...I agree with virtually all of them!

Just my thoughts but I believe that there is a BIG difference between a "solo model site" and a "personality site". Allie, Vanilla, Brandi, Raven etc do well because (other than they are Hot) the members have the opportunity to get to know them..fall in "love" with them...and interact with them.

The great people over at Medium Pimpin have had success because their solo models (other than being Hot) have a huge fan base and name recognition not to mention solid back ends (no pun intended)

IMHO the solo model sites that lack either personality/interaction or a solid fan base/name recognition will have limited or short lived success. The difference for us couldn't be more clear when you compare BrandiLove vs SinamonLane

Both are beautiful, both have tight, athletic bodies...Brandi does 9 times the joins per rmonth and retains...she answers all her email, does her diary every day, cam shows, stories etc etc...Sinamon...fun..but flakey...

[dready]

There seems to be a consensus here that there will always be room for solo sites, but the ones that survive are going to be the ones in which the model plays a very active role in updating/maintaining the site and communicating with the members.

I've been promoting offical pornstar sites for years and it's become very obvious that is the most important factor.

[Mutt]

the interactivity thing is overrated. what percentage of members do you think turn out to a camshow? what percentage register for a girl's forum?
the vast majority of members want to download the pics and videos and jerk off. updates are very important, decent quality photos and videos - and a good model

there is an edge to having an interactive site but it's less than people think.

[Shap]

Originally Posted by Mutt

the interactivity thing is overrated. what percentage of members do you think turn out to a camshow? what percentage register for a girl's forum?
the vast majority of members want to download the pics and videos and jerk off. updates are very important, decent quality photos and videos - and a good model

there is an edge to having an interactive site but it's less than people think.

Perception is Reality. I think if you have the staff to create the perception among surfers (and webmasters to some degree) that the model is really part of the site (that she answers the email and that she is really listening to the surfer) then your chances for success increase greatly.

[Mutt]

Originally Posted by shap

Perception is Reality. I think if you have the staff to create the perception among surfers (and webmasters to some degree) that the model is really part of the site (that she answers the email and that she is really listening to the surfer) then your chances for success increase greatly.

MikeAI wrote the book on that long long ago. He invented this niche - one day somebody other than me will recognize him for it.

[Paparazzi]

If I was about to start a paysite it would never be a solo site. Think of all the hassle if the model wants out for some reason and just refuse to do any more EVEN if you have content for 2 years forward. What to do after that?

[dready]

Originally Posted by shap

Perception is Reality. I think if you have the staff to create the perception among surfers (and webmasters to some degree) that the model is really part of the site (that she answers the email and that she is really listening to the surfer) then your chances for success increase greatly.

Exactly. I don't want to name names but I know of one very popular pornstar who you all know and posts here regularily. Her member area is one of the best I've seen. She interacts with the members. She's hot and has a great personality.

BUT

She paid big bucks for a flashy tour by what many consider to be one of the top design companies and the site does not convert AT ALL.

There is nothing in the tour that reflects her personality to show that she plays an active role. It's too glitzy and polished. It's a shame because I know people would love what they find when they get inside.

[MaDalton]

i do not comment on this thread - i'm just here for a little vacation

[SteveLightspeed]

I don't pretend to know all the answers. We've had some fantastic successes and some horrible failures. You never know which is which until you TRY.

All our sites are now built according to a formula that we have stumbled upon over the years:

1) Each site stars ONE girl, with updates from that girl each AT LEAST weekly.
2) Each site contains tens of thousands of dollars worth of plugin, bonus, and liveshow content, to create additional value for the member.
3) All of our girls are REQUIRED to shoot often with other Lightspeedgirls. It makes better content and creates member interest in our other girl's sites.
4) All our sites share the last two updates and top 2 ranked sets from EVERY Lightspeed site, which effectively gives all members at least 5 new updates daily.
5) Members are allowed to buy 1,5,or 10 Lightspeedgirl sites under one membership.
6) Members can upgrade to a higher level membership at any time.
7) Members can switch out the sites in their membership after every rebill, including new sites.
8) New Lightspeedgirl sites are added monthly, with AT least 50-60 brand new photo and video sets, with nearly 3 years of additional content already shot for that site.

[Mutt]

Originally Posted by dready

Exactly. I don't want to name names but I know of one very popular pornstar who you all know and posts here regularily. Her member area is one of the best I've seen. She interacts with the members. She's hot and has a great personality.

BUT

She paid big bucks for a flashy tour by what many consider to be one of the top design companies and the site does not convert AT ALL.

There is nothing in the tour that reflects her personality to show that she plays an active role. It's too glitzy and polished. It's a shame because I know people would love what they find when they get inside.

hmmm ......... only famous pornstar who posts here is Sunny Leone. or Aimee Sweet but i haven't seen her post here in a long time.

[bigdog]

Solo girl sites are just the new cookie cutter sites of years past. The reason they are popular because they are cheapest exclusive sites you can make.

Free hosted galleries has changed a lot of things.Even if the sites don't convert and retain that well, you are better off putting up their free hosted galleries over a submitters gallery you make no money with.

[Triple 6]

whats SO hard to understand? The more personal a solo site is, the better it converts. The more commercialized it looks, with the graphically overloaded tours and shit, will hardly convert because it looks too overdone, and the last thing they will think is that the model really runs the site - let alone being reminded of the big megasite they joined last month that had jackshit for content and updates yet hoad such an AMAZING TOUR...

Some of these things are so fucking obvious I applaud those who fail because they are too fucking stupid to catch some common sense.

[SteveLightspeed]

Originally Posted by Mutt

the interactivity thing is overrated. what percentage of members do you think turn out to a camshow? what percentage register for a girl's forum?
the vast majority of members want to download the pics and videos and jerk off. updates are very important, decent quality photos and videos - and a good model

there is an edge to having an interactive site but it's less than people think.

agree

[Shap]

Originally Posted by Mutt

MikeAI wrote the book on that long long ago. He invented this niche - one day somebody other than me will recognize him for it.

I know. I do, quietly to myself I know Sweet T does as well. And i think Mike's bank account recognizes it everyday.

[Shap]

Originally Posted by bigdog

Solo girl sites are just the new cookie cutter sites of years past. The reason they are popular because they are cheapest exclusive sites you can make.

Free hosted galleries has changed a lot of things.Even if the sites don't convert and retain that well, you are better off putting up their free hosted galleries over a submitters gallery you make no money with.

That was one of my points to this thread. There are many great solo sites. No doubt. But they have also become the new cookie cutter.

[SteveLightspeed]

The other half of the equation, besides having a hot girl and a quality site (or network of sites) is the MARKETING EFFORT.

Without good marketing, the best site will never reach its full potential.

Would you promote a superhot model if you've heard rumors that the company running it shaves, or doesn't pay accurately?

What if its run by a company in WHOKNOWSWHEREISTAN that you've never heard of?
How about low payout %?
No marketing materials?
Hard to reach support?

All these can mean DEATH to an otherwise great site.

[Shap]

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

I don't pretend to know all the answers. We've had some fantastic successes and some horrible failures. You never know which is which until you TRY.

All our sites are now built according to a formula that we have stumbled upon over the years:

1) Each site stars ONE girl, with updates from that girl each AT LEAST weekly.
2) Each site contains tens of thousands of dollars worth of plugin, bonus, and liveshow content, to create additional value for the member.
3) All of our girls are REQUIRED to shoot often with other Lightspeedgirls. It makes better content and creates member interest in our other girl's sites.
4) All our sites share the last two updates and top 2 ranked sets from EVERY Lightspeed site, which effectively gives all members at least 5 new updates daily.
5) Members are allowed to buy 1,5,or 10 Lightspeedgirl sites under one membership.
6) Members can upgrade to a higher level membership at any time.
7) Members can switch out the sites in their membership after every rebill, including new sites.
8) New Lightspeedgirl sites are added monthly, with AT least 50-60 brand new photo and video sets, with nearly 3 years of additional content already shot for that site.

Steve, we really don't know each other. I don't know much about you aside from your posts and I know enough to know you can't judge someone on their posts. The one thing I do know is the lightspeed business model. You are one of the few people in the industry that breaks the mold and makes things work for you. The system you've created is pure genius. It may seem obvious to most but the fact that Steve is the only one that has put all the pieces together makes it genius in my books.

[MaDalton]

Originally Posted by dready

Exactly. I don't want to name names but I know of one very popular pornstar who you all know and posts here regularily. Her member area is one of the best I've seen. She interacts with the members. She's hot and has a great personality.

BUT

She paid big bucks for a flashy tour by what many consider to be one of the top design companies and the site does not convert AT ALL.

There is nothing in the tour that reflects her personality to show that she plays an active role. It's too glitzy and polished. It's a shame because I know people would love what they find when they get inside.

ok, now i will leave a comment though:

i noticed that a few times already - simple html stuff might convert on those personality sites way better than all this flashy stuff which is in my eyes only done to impress webmasters - not surfers. i know a personality site which is managed by the girl itself and which is obviously doing fantastic - but looks not that "glamourous" on the outside. but who cares, as long as the members are happy.

in fact - the more i think about it - she doesn't seem to care that much about what webmasters think, generates her own traffic, interacts with her members, gives them what they want and doesn't spend much money on design but on good content. sounds like a good plan to me

[Shap]

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

The other half of the equation, besides having a hot girl and a quality site (or network of sites) is the MARKETING EFFORT.

Without good marketing, the best site will never reach its full potential.

Would you promote a superhot model if you've heard rumors that the company running it shaves, or doesn't pay accurately?

What if its run by a company in WHOKNOWSWHEREISTAN that you've never heard of?
How about low payout %?
No marketing materials?
Hard to reach support?

All these can mean DEATH to an otherwise great site.

TRAFFIC IS KING! So many models join forces with guys who think the model is all they need. Traffic doesn't grow on trees.

[SteveLightspeed]

I think the secret to selling sologirl sites to surfers is to sell the site to webmasters FIRST. Getting a webmaster to heavily promote a sologirl is very much like getting a surfer to signup and rebill for multiple months.

Its affiliate webmasters who determine which sites will succeed and which will fail.

[Shap]

For the record I'm not buffing Steve's butt. I just got an icq from someone asking me why i'm being so nice to Steve. I'm not being nice, i'm just recognizing what i consider to be a solid business model.

Btw it's great to see a business thread get so many great replies

[Doctor Dre]

Originally Posted by shap

Steve, we really don't know each other. I don't know much about you aside from your posts and I know enough to know you can't judge someone on their posts. The one thing I do know is the lightspeed business model. You are one of the few people in the industry that breaks the mold and makes things work for you. The system you've created is pure genius. It may seem obvious to most but the fact that Steve is the only one that has put all the pieces together makes it genius in my books.

Ideas without money and hard work are nothing... sometimes you can have the greatest ones but you won't get nowhere without working hard and making it happen.

[Doctor Dre]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

ok, now i will leave a comment though:

i noticed that a few times already - simple html stuff might convert on those personality sites way better than all this flashy stuff which is in my eyes only done to impress webmasters - not surfers. i know a personality site which is managed by the girl itself and which is obviously doing fantastic - but looks not that "glamourous" on the outside. but who cares, as long as the members are happy.

in fact - the more i think about it - she doesn't seem to care that much about what webmasters think, generates her own traffic, interacts with her members, gives them what they want and doesn't spend much money on design but on good content. sounds like a good plan to me

I'ma work with 3 different kind of tours :
1 : The one that girl could have made herself ... will look like something made on geocities in 1998
2 : The normal generic site
3 : A very flashy glamorous website with shots ... it will literally look like a music video. Maybe even some green screne scenes for the trailers.

We'll see what works ;)

[MaDalton]

Originally Posted by Doctor Dre

I'ma work with 3 different kind of tours :
1 : The one that girl could have made herself ... will look like something made on geocities in 1998
2 : The normal generic site
3 : A very flashy glamorous website with shots ... it will literally look like a music video. Maybe even some green screne scenes for the trailers.

We'll see what works ;)

i would be veeeery curious to see the results

[kacy]

Originally Posted by Mutt

MikeAI wrote the book on that long long ago. He invented this niche - one day somebody other than me will recognize him for it.

I also recognize him for it as I mentioned him earlier. While I didn't entirely agree with that business model at the time, because I thought it was some what deceiving to the surfer (the fact that the model had no actual involement) I do understand that perception is reality as you said ;) To me Mike was was the pioneer of the solo girl site before it was even called that.