:warning

I just thought of something...

It sounds like TGP2 would be more profitable for gallery makers but what about the owners?

Would the TGP1 owners make more simply by listing a different type of gallery? (that have more aggressive advertising?)

I must be missing something here becuase I can't see how they would make more money.

:eek7

Less free porn available. The less porn a surfer has to jack off to without paying, the more likely he is going to feel the need to buy something to satisfy himself. That banner he clicks could be on one of the galleries or on the TGP itself, so in theory it should benefit both parties.

I think most people report that TGP2 owners make 5-8x more than TGP1 owners per 1k visitors.
Could be up to 10x.

Say, if you make $1 per 1k uniques with TGP1, you should be pulling at least $5 per 1k uniques with TGP2

"No surfer in their right mind is going to bookmark those sites. "

That's bullshit! I get the exact same number of bookmarkers on my TGP2s as my TGP1s. And they return just as much. This is a COMPLETE FALLACY about TGP2. It's an argument based upon principal but not examination.

Eroswebmaster,

You're right. People with existing traffic have an advantage over those that don't. The world is full of such horrible unfairness.

You don't need any existing traffic to build a rock solid TGP2 though. Knowledge is quite enough.
We're not talking about 50k sites here. A 6k TGP2 makes the same money as a 30k TGP1 and is much easier to build from scratch.

Starting with 0 visitors, you can reach 6k TGP2 traffic well before 30k TGP1s. As a matter of fact,
I have partners on some TGP2s and TGP1s. We started the sites close to Jan 1. 0 traffic to start.
No script to start. (Most time spent developing the script). We started with 5 TGP1s and 5 TGP2s. The largest TGP1 is 20k/day and the largest TGP2 is 6k. The TGP2s make much more money.

Stop comparing traffic numbers and start comparing dollars. For the large majority of webmasters wanting to start a TGP, they will make more money in TGP2 than TGP1. Fact. I have no question about it. 95% of TGP1 webmasters make nothing. They never figure it out. Ever. 20k TGP1 traffic is worth nearly nothing. In the large majority of cases, the only TGP1 worth having is the one above 50k visitors/day. One can eek out a meager existence on such a site.

Look, I haven't exactly killed my TGP1s. I still run TGP1s. I don't pronounce it dead or anything. I'm just saying that for the large majority of webmasters that want to run TGPs, they'd do better in TGP2.

tgp2 equals less free porn is crap. if you guys really mean that and had any balls you would have done tgp3 with no big pics in the first place. then let's see what do you sell or push on your tgp2's? oh join4 for free kinda programs. that's brilliant and yea i know that stuff sells but what the fuck do you think sells best on a circle jerk? something free or something that cost money?
duh. and that's all most tgp2's are, gorified circle jerks with your high skim rates etc etc. that's also why tgp2 sucks cock for gallery makers. look at tgp1's that trade heavily. you prob make better money at a tgp with less trading. same with tgp2.
the main things that totally piss me off about tgp2 is tons and tons of newbies have been mislead that this will be great shit for them. it hasnt been not for gallery makers anyway. why the hell do you think so many listened to the max cash thing. those were mostly newbie dumbass gallery makers who were waiting to here something good that would effect them. well there wasnt any good news for gallery maker was there? fuck no there wasn't. hell yes my representative reverandsleepy was there.
collin your stats and figures do not add up. and when you teamed up with wolf shave of all goddamn people i knew right then and there where this deal was going. then again if you didnt work for a company to promote tgp2 we probally wouldnt have ever heard of it from you. now would've we.
based on these fact and or assumptions that are just my asshole thoughts facts and assumptions as i understand them. i do not and will not promote tgp2 on my board.
you, any of you really really want to do something about less free porn? quit building fucking free sites. i turn free site builders into avs builders who make more money with less expenses and much more flexible rules. i can't stop tgp's and i support tgp1
but i can have an albeit small impact on the less free porn issue by not promoting the building of freesites.
all you have done is build circle jerks with content. big deal.
ltrz
add a dash and a dot com for bastard land

I'm a moron? LOL

Well my friend your case in tgp2 is the exception and not the rule.
I am glad for your success, but I think the point you have missed from my posts is that it is ultimately quality that will prevail and not a concept.


Colin, no it's not unfair that people have more traffic...but it is utter bullshit for a guy like you or wolfshade to come in and pretend that it is only the concept that has enabled you to succeed and not your already established in house traffic sources you pull from.

Give us the formula here for your successful tgp2 sites tgp2 webmasters.

I bet it works this way.

Open up a tgp2 site using tgp2 rules with only your galleries on them...no one else's am I right?

Is that the big secret? LOL Well sorry guys it's not a big secret many webmasters are doing this and have been doing this :D

One thing I've noticed so far not one tgp2 webmaster making claims about money has yet posted the url to their site. :thumbsup

Just like no one posts URL's to any of their sites since they'll no doubt get ripped off by one of you uncreative bastards :1orglaugh

Anyway, www.barefantasy.com is making me money...a fair bit of it on a per surfer basis. I'm not gonna retire from that thing, but I make nice lunch money. And for what it costs me to run, the margins are better than anything Enron could ever make up :)

sarcasticbastard,

Numbers don't add up? Try it yourself. You should be able to do better. i am not a marketing genius. Trust me. Why don't they add up? They completely make sense because they are real.

Me team up with Wolfshade? I've never got along with the guy. At all. That is a matter of public record. As a matter of fact, I stopped hanging out at the original TGP2 board and started tgp2 DOT com as a reaction to events with Wolfshade and CodeCrawler. So where do you get this team up with Wolfshade shir?

I was promoting the TGP2 concept well before being hired by Insite. As a matter of fact, I wrote an article on TGP2 two weeks before Insite even hired me to run TGP2 Bucks.

I've never said anything was easy, man. Either you have the knowledge to succeed at something or you don't. TGP2 is no different. I've said since day one that gallery makers were better off starting their own TGP2s and listing their galleries there than just submitting to TGP2s. I have said this over and over and over. On every show, in articles, at conferences. Everywhere. I have ALWAYS said "Don't just make galleries. Run a TGP2."

Please start your next post on the subject with a little fact-checking instead of total misinformation.

Here is the math. This ads up ...

On my sites, TGP2 traffic has 6x the CTR for the same ad in the same spot on similar sized sites.

Not because of anything extra. Not because of galleries on the site or anything tricky at all. Same spots. Everything else similar. 6x.

Now I have had a few webmasters say that they didn't get the same 6x factor. And I have had one webmaster publicly say that I am idiot for not making more.

About the galleries. I don't really make galleries. I have some. I have made some. I am not, however, a gallery maker of any kind. I made some TGP2 galleries back in November and I made some similar TGP1 galleries and the CTRs to the sponsor were MUCH HIGHER than that 6x difference. I am a TGP2 owner and that is a good place to be, I think. I don't make galleries and don't know a lot about it.

Here is one of my galleries:
http://www.viewporno.com/galx/babe/hotbabe.html

15.05% click through rate to the sponsor! Now,I am an idiot when it comes to galleries. I don't know shit. I throw this up and get 15% CTR. I never made a dime from making TGP1 galleries. I am wrong-headed. Marketing to surfers bores me.
So I make it easy on myself and send to a 4free sponsor. So, shit, I make money from it. What an idiot I am!

I still maintain some of my TGP1s. They are what they are. They are profitable. They are one piece of the puzzle. I run my TGP2s and that is another piece of the puzzle.

eroswebmaster,

I agree with you. If you have some traffic it is very easy to get a TGP2 going.

So if you have 50k TGP1 traffic, do you think you could use it to easily start a 5k TGP2?

I do. So you start a 5k TGP2 and that makes the equivalent money of a 30k TGP1. What is easier? To bring a 50k TGP1 to 80k or to start a 5k TGP2 with the same traffic?

This is a no-brainer. This is precisely what I did.

More money. Hardly any extra cost.

Any idiot like me can do it ;)

"One thing I've noticed so far not one tgp2 webmaster making claims about money has yet posted the url to their site

Give us the formula here for your successful tgp2 sites tgp2 webmasters."

Why does everyone always want easy answers?

Why does everyone always want a FORMULA for success?

What is wrong with figuring things out yourself?
What is wrong with experimentation?
What is wrong with hard work?
What is wrong for discovering formulas yourself?

One thing that hasn't been addressed by TGP2, which supposedly was one of the stronger arguments for it in the beginnning, is where the gallery maker fits in? You say to build a TGP2 site. What if yu don't wnt to run a tgp2? What if you only want to make galleries? This, to me, is where tgp2 has fallen on it's collective ass.

It has been stressed time and again that you can use fewer pictures and more ads but so far, as a gallery maker only for tgp2 sites, I haven't seen the benefit. I've made less than $20 by merely submitting galleries, using the same sponsors I use for tgp galleries. When I submit a tgp gallery, I make a decent bit of coin. When I submit a tgp2 gallery using the same sponsors, I make nothing. And now, after a few months, the key is to run a tgp2 instead of making galleries instead of make money building tgp2 galleries.

The gallerymaker has become extinct in the tgp2 world as a standalone unit, IMHO.

And obviously I can't hold a coherent thought together long enough to type it out properly :)

DarkSoft,

I have always said the key to TGP2 is to own a TGP2. Always. Of course, i think making TGP1 gallery makers sucks too.

However, there are other TGP2ers that have different opinions than mine. For the record, I think the environment for TGP2 gallery makers is more friendly today than it was 30 days ago. I have seen some that weren't accepting submissions now accepting them.

Yep. That is 100% true. Gallery makers in the world of TGP2 are considered useless, non essential and treated like second class citizens. That is probably one of the biggest reasons why people don't stop making TGP1 galleries and switch to TGP2. If you're gonna get treated like shit, you might as well get a few hundred thousand hits and make some cash at the same time.

Wow do you belong to a cult? whatever you do, dont buy black nike shoes and drink the jello they pass around at the TGP 2 meetings

Colin you took my entier statements out of context and you know that.

I was not asking for the formula...I was being sarcastic I already knew what it was re-read the post.

Your formula for success and you ended up posting it in response to sarcastic dude after I made my post is for people to build tgp2 site and only list their own tgp2 galleries....this secret formula isn't so secret it's been applied to tgp1 sites that are making serious bank.

Also proof is in the pudding...you've got guys coming in here claiming their sites are making such and such dollar amount...that doesn't mean a hill of beans. I just asked to see these sites they claim make this money.

I made $500 a day last week off of my tgp1.

Now I typed that out...does that make it necessarily true? :)

part of my point exactly. cuz when you started this thing who did you target? newbies damn near all newbies and a few sheep.
the gallery maker was never alive cuz these are circle jerks and a cj with content or without is a cj.
colin your numbers, thats all join for free kinda stuff. BIG DEAL.
now show me some numbers with sponsors beside the for free crap. you can't that's the facts.
oh you started this 2 weeks before being hired. BIG DEAL. what i said still stands without the job you wouldnt be pushing this crap.
and yea i know wolf shave and you split but that was the original deal, you both pushing whoever you work for or whatever program you own. that's a fact. and no your not one of the more popular boards. sorry nope i got more members than you and i am small shit. more of your typical bullshit.
smart guys dare to be different and not follow the crowd.
all of my posts on this subject are with a ratio of 6 times less
sarcasm than usual
i am not martin
ltrz

How do you figure that? We trade traffic like the majority of regular tgp's do....no more, no less. I post other people's galleries as well...I have none of my own on my site even unless I submit them like anyone else.

Eroswebmaster,

No it doesn't make it true. I can only tell you MY stats. I can't make up your mind for you as to whether you should believe them or not. They are not extravagant claims AT ALL. I am completely surprised that you have any question at all. What do you find difficult to believe if anything?

You can judge my by my character. You can try it yourself. You can ask around. Whatever. Doesn't matter to me.

FATPAD,

"Gallery makers in the world of TGP2 are considered useless, non essential and treated like second class citizens"?

Come on now. You know as well as I that when we opened TGP2.COM we included a monthly column called "The Gallery Maker's Perspective" and editorials and now a monthly column by Falcon, a TGP2 gallery maker.

The voice of the TGP2 Gallery maker is being heard.

Not too long ago, I opened up submissions to TGP2 gallery makers on 5 of my TGP2s. I think there have been some positive moves for TGP2 gallery makers in the past. Y'all gotta LOBBY :) ;)

"and yea i know wolf shave and you split but that was the original deal, you both pushing whoever you work for or whatever program you own. that's a fact. and no your not one of the more popular boards. sorry nope i got more members than you and i am small shit. more of your typical bullshit"

Oh, now I know you are a complete idiot. The second I set foot on his board Wolfshade attacked TGP2 Bucks, Insite, and me. I have never even mentioned any of his programs in public. Split from what? Do you just make this stuff up as you go along?

As to your statement regarding board popularity.

Your board has had 1290 posts in the General Section since October 28 and has 241 registered members.

We opened Feb. 10 and have had 2844 posts and 163 members.

We're kicking your ass.

On March 8, we checked some WM boards and here were the totals. I'll include your board in the official total now. To tell you the truth, you may want to check your totals as I was getting bored going through all the categories looking for needles in haystacks and added a few on to give you the benefit of the doubt.

GFY - 894 posts
Oprano - 359 posts
TGP2.COM - 94 posts
Netpond - 47 posts
YNOT - 30 posts
Surprise - 17 posts
SarcasticBastards - 16 posts

GFY rules the roost. No doubt.

yep 241 members and growing at 2 to 5 a day so that is true.
. To tell you the truth, you may want to check your totals as I was getting bored going through all the categories looking for needles in haystacks and added a few on to give you the benefit of the doubt.
your to fuckin funny. there is more real info on search engines, tgp1 and avs site building on my board than any board except toms newbie board.
on that day or any day the reason the number of posts on my board maybe less than others is because...

we don't care if your fuckin cat died.
we dont' care about your personal life.
we don't do the we are a community thing
we do business and alot less bullshitting around than anywhere.
so yea my post counts are lower than some.
my board clicks average over 2k a day
now my board is busy as all hell and i gotta go.
ltrz

You forgot one SB..
We don't play bingo..

"i gotta go.'

Bye!

See, that's where you're wrong. I don't list my own galleries, simply because I have no time to make any. I have other full-time engagements and I simply cannot (God knows I've tried) the extra time to make the extra buck. I have a shitload of ideas just piling up in my head, just waiting for me to give'em a go, making and listing my own galleries is one of them. But if I ever did that, I wouldn't list them on any of my existing sites, that would mean fucking things up for other gallery makers who I know work hard for the bucks they earn. So sometime in the, hopefully, near future, I'll make some new TGP2's on which I'll list my own galleries only. Until that day, I'm still making money on my TGP2 sites without listing a single gallery made by me.

And just for the record, I never did TGP, I never owned one and thus I was never good at it. :winkwink:

And sorry for the namecalling, it just slipped my tongue. :)

I post TGP2 galleries and also own a TGP2 site. The thing that I see most from it is a much better click-thru to sponsor ratio.

TGP2 gives me the flexibility to me more creative with my galleries. Allowing pics on HTML is critical to this as it allows you to get a second chance at getting the surfer to the sponsor. the whole point of giving away free pics is to show the surfer the quality of the content, it is ludicrious that TGP1 has not allowed webmasters to place links underneath ful size images.

Here is a recent gallery that I have posted and some early results.

http://www.adult-paysites.com/tgp2/k...002/index.html

That gallery has only had approx 1350 unique hits, but has sent 120 hits to the sponsor.

An indentical gallery posted on TGP1 sites (but with 10pics and no pics on html) has recieved over 40,000 unique hits and generated only 100 hits to the sponsor.

I think part of the problem in this business is that people focus too much on raw numbers and not on the bottom line.

When I first started in this business it was difficult for a surfer to find free hardcore images and free videos were pretty much non-existent. Nowadays, the web is flooded with it and people sit there and wonder why sponsors are converting at 1:1500 and worse.

Well, we all know the idea behind TGP2 sites.

The idea really has to do with a new or inexperienced surfer find a tgp2 post site, and then get hungry for more content, and then click on your sponsors.

I did ok when I tried some out myself, enough to bother setting up tgp2 content for our cash program. Still, there is that problem with original TGPs giving out more content, and being easier to find. Best TGP2s can do to get surfers, is get high up on search engine traffic, and get the surfers that way.

Homegrown, you're partly right.

But let's not forget that the TGP's wouldn't exist if there weren't enough webmasters to feed them with excellent galleries.

As for the SE traffic part, it's being done as we speak.

Pfff, same shit every 4 weeks or so... :p

One of the biggest reasons for TGP2 was to get less porn online, which means more money for us webmasters. That seems to be generally known.
A lot of sponsors have already increased payouts to TGP2 webmasters, many give out a 10%-30% tgp2 bonus.
It might be very wishfull thinking, but as sponsors play a big deal in this stuff, it would be ideal if one day - when the breaking point comes - sponsors include in there rules, that their content may not be used for TGP1 and some other little rules like that. That would be the time many tgp1 webmasters will convert.

Like I said, might be a longshot, but it is worth to think about, they cannot give away their content forever in those amounts.

Lets just scroll past that comment a few lines....

oh um.... Could it be that you just contradicted yourself and proved my point without me even needed to be awake?

TGP1 surfers do bookmark TGP2 sites. They do return and they do signup at sponsors.

No market is getting reshaped.... A whole new one was created. A market designed from the start for max turnover and min costs. A market that has a profit margin for even the most hopeless webmaster.

I've never been profitable in TGP1.... I've used it to feed CJ sites and toplists but never seen any direct profit when posting paysites.... Maybe I'm just hopeless... but any fool can make money in TGP2....

I can hear some saying "well that's your mistake selling paysites not evidence eliminator".... Well I don't sell things that make my life harder in future. Selling an evidence eliminator today means not getting credited for a paysite signup or traffic trade tomorrow (it deletes cookies). I can make money selling paysites in TGP2 without having to cut my own throat.

Yeah that's what I don't get.... It's like there is something to lose.... When there simply isn't a damn thing to lose.

So many TGP1 owners seem to know so much about what TGP2 is and isn't :-)

We'll take experienced TGP1 surfers too..... They'll convert better on TGP2 site then they did on TGP1 sites so all traffic is worth it for the TGP2 webmaster.

Shit one of my 500 hit TGP2 sites probably makes more than a lot of 10k+ TGP1 sites. Does that have anything to do with the bulk mega traffic pool that I didn't have? Posting a few galleries and putting a few links up is more than enough to get a TGP2 site off the ground.

-Ben

You Bastard! My cat died today!

whats a CJ2?

Was looking at a tgp2 sites submissions page and saw that term.

It is DEAD!!!!!

Not so - it's very much alive and kicking.

As of now, TGP2 is viewed as nothing more than a CJ site with content which caters only to TGP2 owners. Without a LL2 system to support TGP2, few gallery makers will consider it as a viable alternative to TGP1.

TGP2 gallery makers should be much more prolific. It is not TGP. You only use 5 pics, so you should make about four TGP2 galleries/day, if you are used to making one 20 pic TGP gallery (roughly standard). And that is if you are looking for a minimum number. I don't buy into this "TGP2 screws the gallery builder" line of shit. I have listed galleries from the TGP2 pool from the time I opened up. I never even considered installing a submit script and demanding recips. If it makes the pool, chances are it will be on my site.

Another thing people sem to be missing is the freedom TGP2 allows the gallery builder. Yes, more aggressive gallery pages are allowed. Hell, they are encouraged. But there has been a return to "old school" tactics. I am talking about shit I did back in 97. Loading full size pics on html pages, ads on these pic pages, and even linking the fucking pic on the html page (yeah, I think this should be allowed - I do it on mine, it helps).

I also see some anti CC/Wolfshade sentiments. Well, I think they have been good for webmasters, overall. Those two have brought up some very good tactics to use in TGP2(and any other form of traffic you can apply it to). Namely, squeezing every possible penny out of surfers. Bill from PMB told me to do this long ago, and if I listened to him more often, maybe I'd be retired/semi-retired, too. Basically, it boils down to this. Link to FPA/HPAs, not tours. On these ad pages, you need to pop a blur(for free sponsors work great). You should have an e-mail collection box(your own script, a 4 free - but fucking something for the cheap cocksuckers), a dialer link on the page (for guys with no credit cards/or from Europe where dialers seem to be preferred). You should then also pop exit consoles off these pages(again, using 4free, dialers, nocash dialers, or perhaps your AVS hub page/traffic pump page). Do all this, and you will make money. I'm not a genius, I'm not a magician, but I do this and I make more money when I do. It's just working smarter. getting the most out of your time.

And for anyone who asked to see URLs. You have got to be kidding me. What fucking bus did you just come in on? Posting URLs on a webmaster BBS is fucking stupid. I'll only show you what I have to show you. Even if YOU don't rip me off, 500 other fuckfaces will. I learned that years ago on AVS boards.

So what's that make TGP1?
A CJ site with content which only caters to TGP1 owners?

Why would we need LL2?
You can make free sites from TGP2 galleries easy.

What about the hundreds of gallery makers already supporting it?

This is just totally silly.... Why are there so many ppl that don't know anything about TGP2 ready to spell out exactly what it is in under 3 words.

-Ben

It is like organic foods (at least here is the US).

Years ago a person who was involved in producing organic food was looked upon as a nutcase. Why bother to eat something produced naturally when petrochemicals are so good for you.

Over time it became more popular and more profitable.

Now the big corporations are involved and it has become mainstream.

Who gives a fuck? TGP1 or TGP2. I do both.

Yeah, in all honesty there are only about 10-15 tgp2's worth submitting to that will send you some decent traffic back.

I don't think it is dead, it just hasn't matured enough. It has really only been around since September of last year, it is only like 6 months old.

Does tgp2 convert better than tgp1. yes it does, but that has alot to do with the function of traffic. I don't think it is so much that because there are only 5 pic galleries to make the srfer want to join, I think it is because alot of the beginning rules, no tgp1 trades, meant that the traffic had to come from better sources. Alot of newbies came on board feeding tgp2 with se and avs traffic because they thought tgp2 was going to be the shit.

TGP2 IS the shit! :D

Won't take my word for it? Get off your lazy ass and try it. Get yourself AHK free and submit to 100 TGP2's without a recip, submit to the gallery pools as well, and you WILL make sales.