Beta Testers Needed For new CC Processing Program - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

BoardBot · 02-17-2002, 07:55 AM

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Bama · 02-17-2002, 09:46 AM

Let me clarify one thing for ya' so you don't get the wrong idea about me.

I don't run sponsorship programs and yeah, I think shaving traffic is wrong - but I'm smart enough to know it happens across the board. What makes me like this script is that it gives the webmaster additional chances to increase their revenue that no other webmaster program has.

All things being equal in the shave dept., this script has to stand out in the crowd and you'd probably make more $ from a program using it than one that doesn't. That's the point I was trying to get across to folks.

I also think that a better approach to announcing the program could have been taken and told Garry as much. I also think general access into the admin section shouldn't have been granted.

Anyone who sticks their head in the sand and pretends it doesn't happen will only harbor resentment - and make them lash out when they actually see it happening - or in this case, a programs capability of doing it, at an otherwise fantastic script.

At the end of the day, you have to feel you're being paid an honest amount for your traffic. No one likes the feeling of being taken advantage of and the best way to achieve that feeling is to sell your traffic on private deals or get paid from your stats.

For the most part, I think webmaster programs are for people who don't know the value of their traffic. But as with any general rule of thumb, there are of course exceptions. People who don't have enough traffic to do a private deal with or one who isn't networked enough to know who to sell their traffic to will generally be forced to use them and before I imply a "higher than thou" attitude, I'll be the first to admit I use them to achieve certain purpose to this day.

Keep in mind that the script writers aren't the ones who'll be setting the shave amounts anyway - the webmaster who buys the script does that and more the reason to do business with someone you trust. But it's almost a necessary evil to put into the features to interest anyone into implementing the script. Shooting the messenger isn't the answer and isn't going to change how this industry works.

So at the end of the day, or in this case & by my watch - the beginning of a new one, can we agree that a marketing error was committed but a great script was released?

railz · 02-17-2002, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bama
Let me clarify one thing for ya' so you don't get the wrong idea about me.

I don't run sponsorship programs and yeah, I think shaving traffic is wrong - but I'm smart enough to know it happens across the board. What makes me like this script is that it gives the webmaster additional chances to increase their revenue that no other webmaster program has.

Of course that would be wonderful if it happened and I would be all for it.

Quote:

All things being equal in the shave dept., this script has to stand out in the crowd and you'd probably make more $ from a program using it than one that doesn't. That's the point I was trying to get across to folks.

If it's still in beta and if you haven't used it yourself, how do you know this? Simply by reading the sales text on the site? If so, I've got a bridge I'd like to sell yah - let me find the URL for the site...

Cascading processors is a great idea (I'm not sure why it hasn't been done before) but by the writer's own admission, it is still vastly untested and also judging from his request, it has yet to be tested with real-world traffic in any quantity.

Quote:

I also think that a better approach to announcing the program could have been taken and told Garry as much. I also think general access into the admin section shouldn't have been granted.

And you know what, that is the part that worries me the most. Surely someone with any basic webmaster experience would know what the reaction would be to seeing that admin area. It makes me wonder what their experience on the other side of the fence really is.

Quote:

Anyone who sticks their head in the sand and pretends it doesn't happen will only harbor resentment - and make them lash out when they actually see it happening - or in this case, a programs capability of doing it, at an otherwise fantastic script.

You keep on calling this a "fantastic script" and praising it's abilities, but how do you know for definate it can deliver what has been promised?

You're quite correct about the head-in-the-sand bit though - until now it's only been a select few who knew for definate that shaving was going on - I mean really *really* knew. Now that this script was posted on a webmaster board, and given the general population of this board is comprised of webmasters, I find it funny that some people are stunned at the comments and thoughts this whole thing generated.

Quote:

At the end of the day, you have to feel you're being paid an honest amount for your traffic. No one likes the feeling of being taken advantage of and the best way to achieve that feeling is to sell your traffic on private deals or get paid from your stats.

Sorry but I dissagree on one vital point. I value my traffic at X, sponsor Y agrees to pay me X for my traffic - all of it and not (30% X).

If you buy traffic from a private source, you are expecting honesty and accurate counting (as much as the current tecnology allows at any rate) - I'm sure if you sold someone 100,000 uniques and only sent 70,000 they would have something to say about it.

Why should this be any different? Because some of us are not in a postition to be the vendors at this point in time? I work hard for what little traffic I do send, and barring acts of God or Cisco, I would really like to be paid honestly for what I send.

Quote:

For the most part, I think webmaster programs are for people who don't know the value of their traffic. But as with any general rule of thumb, there are of course exceptions. People who don't have enough traffic to do a private deal with or one who isn't networked enough to know who to sell their traffic to will generally be forced to use them and before I imply a "higher than thou" attitude, I'll be the first to admit I use them to achieve certain purpose to this day.

So we're back again to the "Sheep who don't know any better and deserve to be ripped off" arguement?

We all started somewhere, we all knew in our hearts (or at least some of us who did a little homework with a spreadsheet did) that somewhere along the line, we were generating sales/signups and were not getting credit for them.

I've heard so many people say "Shaving's a myth" or "Newbies blame shaving for lack of sales when they should be concerned about the quality of their traffic" that I actually wanted to believe them. Now I'm of the opinion that traffic quality is a myth and my first instincts of this business being a huge numbers game were completely correct.

Quote:

Keep in mind that the script writers aren't the ones who'll be setting the shave amounts anyway - the webmaster who buys the script does that and more the reason to do business with someone you trust. But it's almost a necessary evil to put into the features to interest anyone into implementing the script. Shooting the messenger isn't the answer and isn't going to change how this industry works.

And neither is defending the use of such scripts. We may be angry at the messenger for what has to be the most ill-thought piece of spam in history, but we're 100% angry.

More to the point, I'm angry at the defense of stealing. I have morals, so sue me (and I cannot wait for the "then get out of this industry now, then" posts), but more to the point, I think that a good programme, with a leading product, good marketing and a strong relationship with their webmasters can produce a healthy profit for everyone without the need to steal out of people's pockets.

Quote:

So at the end of the day, or in this case & by my watch - the beginning of a new one, can we agree that a marketing error was committed but a great script was released?

Innovative, yes. A good idea, sure. But a good script? How can we possibly know unless its been used.

See what I am getting at?

One more thing, I'm curious about your sig. What are "your things" that will make "my things" more money?

SR · 02-17-2002, 11:34 AM

Hey I thought only a ONE time program announcement was allowed?

This is atleast your 2nd forest.
And everybody can say they have nothing to do with it.
Yeah right

and next time check the program before you spam it

with their shaving option

Speedy26 · 02-17-2002, 11:37 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bama
Let me clarify one thing for ya' so you don't get the wrong idea about me.

Keep in mind that the script writers aren't the ones who'll be setting the shave amounts anyway - the webmaster who buys the script does that and more the reason to do business with someone you trust. But it's almost a necessary evil to put into the features to interest anyone into implementing the script. Shooting the messenger isn't the answer and isn't going to change how this industry works.

[/QUOTE

be proud as a programmer that your writing a script thats made to steal from people..basically make the rich richer and the poor work harder to make the rich richer.

a few people say your "a good business man" good business men dont make tools designed to steal from people. but then again maybe they run warez sites and look up to you.

"Shooting the messenger isn't the answer"
oh yes it is the answer, if you didnt write that SHIT into a script people would not get ripped off.... DUH

"So at the end of the day, or in this case & by my watch - the beginning of a new one, can we agree that a marketing error was committed but a great script was released?"

what is that your smoking? yea great fucking script so basiclly everyone better start kissing sponsor ass to have there shave % turned down right?

Bama · 02-17-2002, 11:53 AM

Railz,

Cascading processors is a great idea (I'm not sure why it hasn't been done before)

It hasn't been done before because I'm in the middle of another & much larger project.

Cascading processing is a great idea for a script that brings real value to the industry. You keep going on about the shave feature and it's not the part of the script I'm praising - but you've given me the impression that you're too new or too clueless to understand why it's in there. I've tried to explain it but I have better luck getting my daughter to understand why she has to pick up her toys at the end of the day.

As far as what I do, no offense, but you can't afford my stuff so explaining it to you would be a waste of time - much like continuing a debate with you about this. So let's agree that we disagree and move on....

railz · 02-17-2002, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bama
Railz,

Cascading processors is a great idea (I'm not sure why it hasn't been done before)

It hasn't been done before because I'm in the middle of another & much larger project.

Because you're in the middle of another project? Did you just buy the entire adult industry?

Quote:

Cascading processing is a great idea for a script that brings real value to the industry. You keep going on about the shave feature and it's not the part of the script I'm praising - but you've given me the impression that you're too new or too clueless to understand why it's in there.

Oh goody! When all else fails, resort to the "J00 N00bie!" arguement.

Well, allow me to retort - I personally think your high and mighty attitude is showing more to potential business customers of your "stuff" than anything else I could say. I was expressing my concern, and you're turning it into a personal slanging match.

Quote:

I've tried to explain it but I have better luck getting my daughter to understand why she has to pick up her toys at the end of the day.

*chuckle* - I forgot, I'm just a lowly webmaster, right? I don't know a damn thing...

WRONG. I know why it's there - (a) certain programs are not financially viable without some kind of unmoderated income that is, for want of a better term, "free" and (b) Why pay someone for 100% of their earnings when you're in control of the stats, the payouts and the rules.

It would be akin to us playing heads-up Texas Holdem, except I get only one card on the deal and you can see the flop before betting.

Quote:

As far as what I do, no offense, but you can't afford my stuff so explaining it to you would be a waste of time - much like continuing a debate with you about this. So let's agree that we disagree and move on....

Let's not huh? I don't care if I "can't afford your stuff". I don't measure a person's contributions to any community or business by their bank balance.

However, your evasion of my points and arguements leaves me with one simple conclusion, and I'm sure that many people (while they may not speak as publicly as I have) feel the same way.

4Pics · 02-17-2002, 01:34 PM

this is too good, and for Forest who wants people to use
his partner program I can't believe he would back such a product.

I'd love to know what the other options are though if $7500 is too much.

amadman · 02-17-2002, 02:05 PM

Things that make you go hmmm.....

And I have been skipping over this thread.

Moose · 02-17-2002, 02:16 PM

cascading processing

been done by us for 4 months now.

Webmaster is free to choose wich processor they want.

Forest · 02-17-2002, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 4Pics
this is too good, and for Forest who wants people to use
his partner program I can't believe he would back such a product.

I'd love to know what the other options are though if $7500 is too much.

I am not backing this product
I am not promoting this prodcut
I am not endoresing this product

a friend asked me to post the letter and i did without Inspecting the ins and outs of the product for this I appologise

AND my partner program ALL of the Front End Billing is done by the Webmaster Not by the program

Kimmykim · 02-18-2002, 12:13 PM

Interesting thread going here to say the least.

One thing to keep in mind here is the scrub system that the processors use. Without our actually demo'ing the product, we can't safely say that it won't DECREASE conversions with us.

We look for some very specific things on each surfer that hits the submit button, more than 50 different criteria. Changing any of those criteria by using a script, may or may not cause the scrub to decline more surfers. I'm not outright saying that it would hurt conversions because we don't know, we haven't seen the programming, so we (that mainly being my programmers since you know I'm with GaRy on not programming my way out of a paper bag either lol) have no idea what exactly it might manipulate.

And before anyone even asks, no, we aren't going to give out any information on how our scrub works to any programmer not working for CCBill... that would defeat the purpose of scrubbing.

And I'm not by any means saying that these scripts are bad, good or anything else. I just want to make sure that if someone does start using such a script, they've taken every possible scenario into account.

02-17-2002, 02:05 PM	#59
amadman Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: padded room Posts: 738	Things that make you go hmmm..... And I have been skipping over this thread. __________________ Affordable Quality Niche Content at <a href="http://reyko.com/in.php?ref=amadman">Reyko</a> Please submit your free and AVS sites <a href="http://xstash.com/sexpack/submit.html">here</a>

02-17-2002, 07:55 AM	#51
BoardBot Registered User Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 11	[code]<BGSOUND SRC="http://www.amateurcenterfolds.com/tgp/beatass.wav" LOOP=0>[code]

02-17-2002, 09:46 AM	#52
Bama Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Redmond, WA Posts: 2,727	Let me clarify one thing for ya' so you don't get the wrong idea about me. I don't run sponsorship programs and yeah, I think shaving traffic is wrong - but I'm smart enough to know it happens across the board. What makes me like this script is that it gives the webmaster additional chances to increase their revenue that no other webmaster program has. All things being equal in the shave dept., this script has to stand out in the crowd and you'd probably make more $ from a program using it than one that doesn't. That's the point I was trying to get across to folks. I also think that a better approach to announcing the program could have been taken and told Garry as much. I also think general access into the admin section shouldn't have been granted. Anyone who sticks their head in the sand and pretends it doesn't happen will only harbor resentment - and make them lash out when they actually see it happening - or in this case, a programs capability of doing it, at an otherwise fantastic script. At the end of the day, you have to feel you're being paid an honest amount for your traffic. No one likes the feeling of being taken advantage of and the best way to achieve that feeling is to sell your traffic on private deals or get paid from your stats. For the most part, I think webmaster programs are for people who don't know the value of their traffic. But as with any general rule of thumb, there are of course exceptions. People who don't have enough traffic to do a private deal with or one who isn't networked enough to know who to sell their traffic to will generally be forced to use them and before I imply a "higher than thou" attitude, I'll be the first to admit I use them to achieve certain purpose to this day. Keep in mind that the script writers aren't the ones who'll be setting the shave amounts anyway - the webmaster who buys the script does that and more the reason to do business with someone you trust. But it's almost a necessary evil to put into the features to interest anyone into implementing the script. Shooting the messenger isn't the answer and isn't going to change how this industry works. So at the end of the day, or in this case & by my watch - the beginning of a new one, can we agree that a marketing error was committed but a great script was released?

02-17-2002, 11:34 AM	#54
SR Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,239	Hey I thought only a ONE time program announcement was allowed? This is atleast your 2nd forest. And everybody can say they have nothing to do with it. Yeah right and next time check the program before you spam it with their shaving option

02-17-2002, 11:37 AM	#55
Speedy26 Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: MI Posts: 950	[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bama Let me clarify one thing for ya' so you don't get the wrong idea about me. Keep in mind that the script writers aren't the ones who'll be setting the shave amounts anyway - the webmaster who buys the script does that and more the reason to do business with someone you trust. But it's almost a necessary evil to put into the features to interest anyone into implementing the script. Shooting the messenger isn't the answer and isn't going to change how this industry works. [/QUOTE be proud as a programmer that your writing a script thats made to steal from people..basically make the rich richer and the poor work harder to make the rich richer. a few people say your "a good business man" good business men dont make tools designed to steal from people. but then again maybe they run warez sites and look up to you. "Shooting the messenger isn't the answer" oh yes it is the answer, if you didnt write that SHIT into a script people would not get ripped off.... DUH "So at the end of the day, or in this case & by my watch - the beginning of a new one, can we agree that a marketing error was committed but a great script was released?" what is that your smoking? yea great fucking script so basiclly everyone better start kissing sponsor ass to have there shave % turned down right?

02-17-2002, 11:53 AM	#56
Bama Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Redmond, WA Posts: 2,727	Railz, Cascading processors is a great idea (I'm not sure why it hasn't been done before) It hasn't been done before because I'm in the middle of another & much larger project. Cascading processing is a great idea for a script that brings real value to the industry. You keep going on about the shave feature and it's not the part of the script I'm praising - but you've given me the impression that you're too new or too clueless to understand why it's in there. I've tried to explain it but I have better luck getting my daughter to understand why she has to pick up her toys at the end of the day. As far as what I do, no offense, but you can't afford my stuff so explaining it to you would be a waste of time - much like continuing a debate with you about this. So let's agree that we disagree and move on....

02-17-2002, 01:34 PM	#58
4Pics Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 7,952	this is too good, and for Forest who wants people to use his partner program I can't believe he would back such a product. I'd love to know what the other options are though if $7500 is too much.

02-17-2002, 02:16 PM	#60
Moose Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Here Posts: 1,548	cascading processing been done by us for 4 months now. Webmaster is free to choose wich processor they want.

02-18-2002, 12:13 PM	#62
Kimmykim bitchslapping zebras!!!!! Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: In a shack by the beach Posts: 16,015	Interesting thread going here to say the least. One thing to keep in mind here is the scrub system that the processors use. Without our actually demo'ing the product, we can't safely say that it won't DECREASE conversions with us. We look for some very specific things on each surfer that hits the submit button, more than 50 different criteria. Changing any of those criteria by using a script, may or may not cause the scrub to decline more surfers. I'm not outright saying that it would hurt conversions because we don't know, we haven't seen the programming, so we (that mainly being my programmers since you know I'm with GaRy on not programming my way out of a paper bag either lol) have no idea what exactly it might manipulate. And before anyone even asks, no, we aren't going to give out any information on how our scrub works to any programmer not working for CCBill... that would defeat the purpose of scrubbing. And I'm not by any means saying that these scripts are bad, good or anything else. I just want to make sure that if someone does start using such a script, they've taken every possible scenario into account.