Question for the military guys... - GoFuckYourself.com

Sly · 08-23-2005, 10:20 PM

Why do we have an Air Force and a Navy when it seems like the Navy has a very large air presence? And what different tasks does the Air Force have that the Air Navy doesn't have and vice-versa?

tony286 · 08-23-2005, 10:23 PM

good question im curious too

Big_Papi · 08-23-2005, 10:24 PM

I was told by a F-15 pilot that most fighter planes based off of carriers are there to support the carrier itself. i.e. they defend within a certain perimeter. This is not to say that they do not also provide support sorties. AF is installation based and provide all roles. This is how I was brought to understand it but I could be wrong. I have been in the USAF for 10 years btw.

Dre

Mr Pheer · 08-23-2005, 10:24 PM

the Army has more aircraft than the other branches of the military have

bet you didnt know that

Sly · 08-23-2005, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big_Papi

I was told by a F-15 pilot that most fighter planes based off of carriers are there to support the carrier itself. i.e. they defend within a certain perimeter. This is not to say that they do not also provide support sorties. AF is installation based and provide all roles. This is how I was brought to understand it but I could be wrong. I have been in the USAF for 10 years btw.

Dre

If fighter planes are only there to support the carrier, then what's the point of having the carrier? We have bases all over the world to launch attacks from.

Sly · 08-23-2005, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrPheer

the Army has more aircraft than the other branches of the military have

bet you didnt know that

I always assumed the Army had a fair amount of planes to move equipment and personnel, and a fair amount of choppers to move personnel quickly and provide low and accurate air support... but no, I didn't realize the Army had fighters.

Mr Pheer · 08-23-2005, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sly

I always assumed the Army had a fair amount of planes to move equipment and personnel, and a fair amount of choppers to move personnel quickly and provide low and accurate air support... but no, I didn't realize the Army had fighters.

i didnt say it had fighters, i said it had more aircraft

a helicopter is an aircraft

PixeLs · 08-23-2005, 11:11 PM

I didn't know about this thing. Glad youn posted it here.

kmanrox · 08-24-2005, 12:40 AM

For the same reason the Army and the Marines exist. Specialties. Army is basic ground stuff, Marines specialize in beach assaults and water-initiated assaults... Ironically since the Marines are a much smaller branch, yet they usually fight first, we get the second-hand weapons and technology that the wealthier Army doesnt use anymore. God bless the USA lol

venus · 08-24-2005, 12:51 AM

actually the marines dont usually fight first, thats a myth made up by the marines for recruitment, the army usually is the first on the ground during combat, either the rangers, special forces or the airborne.
the marines do more support operations in support of embassies tho - the marines also do allot of the show of force stuff, but when its a real war, the army is the leader - thats why they get all the good stuff

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hedonistic

For the same reason the Army and the Marines exist. Specialties. Army is basic ground stuff, Marines specialize in beach assaults and water-initiated assaults... Ironically since the Marines are a much smaller branch, yet they usually fight first, we get the second-hand weapons and technology that the wealthier Army doesnt use anymore. God bless the USA lol

johnnyhey · 08-24-2005, 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sly

If fighter planes are only there to support the carrier, then what's the point of having the carrier? We have bases all over the world to launch attacks from.

we DON'T have bases all over the world. a carrier allows us to bring the fight to anyone anywhere. look at all the problems we had with using turkey to launch the invasion of iraq.

also the air force is in charge of launching ICBMS, which the navy doesn't. the navy has crusise missles launched from ships and subs.

theking · 08-24-2005, 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sly

Why do we have an Air Force and a Navy when it seems like the Navy has a very large air presence? And what different tasks does the Air Force have that the Air Navy doesn't have and vice-versa?

Easy answer...long range heavy bombers.

theking · 08-24-2005, 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sly

If fighter planes are only there to support the carrier, then what's the point of having the carrier? We have bases all over the world to launch attacks from.

Of course they are don't only protect carriers...if that were the case there would be a need to have carriers. The carriers are used to forward position air power into an AO.

theking · 08-24-2005, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnyhey

we DON'T have bases all over the world. a carrier allows us to bring the fight to anyone anywhere. look at all the problems we had with using turkey to launch the invasion of iraq.

also the air force is in charge of launching ICBMS, which the navy doesn't. the navy has crusise missles launched from ships and subs.

The Navy has ICBM's also...ever hear of Boomers/subs?

spunkmaster · 08-24-2005, 01:04 AM

A carrier protects a fleet.

Carrier based jets are air to air and most of the Air Force jets are
Air to ground.

theking · 08-24-2005, 01:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by venus

actually the marines dont usually fight first, thats a myth made up by the marines for recruitment, the army usually is the first on the ground during combat, either the rangers, special forces or the airborne.
the marines do more support operations in support of embassies tho - the marines also do allot of the show of force stuff, but when its a real war, the army is the leader - thats why they get all the good stuff

You are correct. It is usually Airborne forces that are inserted first...and Rangers...Special Forces...and Special Operation Forces (of which certain Marine units are part of Special Operation Forces...Force Recon being one such unit)...are all Airborne qualified.

theking · 08-24-2005, 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spunkmaster

A carrier protects a fleet.

Carrier based jets are air to air and most of the Air Force jets are
Air to ground.

Carrier based jets are not only air to air...they also provide air to ground support...specifically Marine aircraft which are carrier based.

theking · 08-24-2005, 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theking

Of course they are don't only protect carriers...if that were the case there would be a need to have carriers. The carriers are used to forward position air power into an AO.

That should read..."there would not be a need".

blackfeet · 08-24-2005, 01:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sly

If fighter planes are only there to support the carrier, then what's the point of having the carrier? We have bases all over the world to launch attacks from.

sometimes we're not able to occupy the land. a base maybe to far away, so you have the ships on the sea to launch attacks and refuel.

kmanrox · 08-24-2005, 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by venus

actually the marines dont usually fight first, thats a myth made up by the marines for recruitment, the army usually is the first on the ground during combat, either the rangers, special forces or the airborne.
the marines do more support operations in support of embassies tho - the marines also do allot of the show of force stuff, but when its a real war, the army is the leader - thats why they get all the good stuff

the army may lead ops inland, but beach assaults are lead by the Marines, especially in the rougher areas... we had a saying that we did the killing, then the army comes UP THE REAR and buries the bodies.

theking · 08-24-2005, 07:43 AM

Bump for Sly.

sperbonzo · 08-24-2005, 07:52 AM

Basically it is so that each branch can organize it's own set of forces for it's own missions, whatever those happen to be.

We could simply have a "military" and have all weapons and personnel under the same command structure, but it would be very hard to be efficient, and certain kinds of missions need certain kinds of people, skills and experience.

Naval pilots are particularly skilled in Naval operations, and the command structure is much more simple if the Navy commanders can command their own pilots during their own missions, without having to link up with another branch, eg the Air Force.

This is also why the Marines have their own Aircraft. That way they can talk to their own people that are speciallized in dealing with supporting the marine ground units.

It's just a more efficient way to set things up.

sperbonzo · 08-24-2005, 10:53 AM

BTW what prompted the question?

johnnyhey · 08-24-2005, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theking

The Navy has ICBM's also...ever hear of Boomers/subs?

the polaris missle (shot from a sub) doesn't have the range of a real ICBM. polaris range is somewhere in the neighborhood of 1500 NM.

johnnyhey · 08-24-2005, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theking

Carrier based jets are not only air to air...they also provide air to ground support...specifically Marine aircraft which are carrier based.

the marines generally don't use the navy flattops, they have their own ships to launch their air assaults. that's why the marines use the harrier jump jet, because they don't have full size carriers like the navy. the marines don't rely on ANYONE else, they provide ground AND air. that's the way they like it.

Sly · 08-24-2005, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnyhey

the marines generally don't use the navy flattops, they have their own ships to launch their air assaults. that's why the marines use the harrier jump jet, because they don't have full size carriers like the navy. the marines don't rely on ANYONE else, they provide ground AND air. that's the way they like it.

The Marines have their own ships?

What about the Army and Air Force?

Sly · 08-24-2005, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sperbonzo

BTW what prompted the question?

Airek started a thread asking for veterans to post... I have a million other questions, I'll save those for a later day. :-)

johnnyhey · 08-24-2005, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sly

The Marines have their own ships?

What about the Army and Air Force?

uh, yeah, how else do you think they can launch amphibious landings?
they're not on the scale of a a carrier or battleship, but they have ships.
army and air force don't have ships.

Sly · 08-24-2005, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnyhey

uh, yeah, how else do you think they can launch amphibious landings?
they're not on the scale of a a carrier or battleship, but they have ships.
army and air force don't have ships.

I just assumed they used Navy ships.

Ok, now a history question relating to D-Day... when they stormed the beaches, was it mainly Army or were the Marines in there as well? And who's ships did they use?

These are probably odd questions, my mind is spinning now.

EZRhino · 08-24-2005, 11:12 AM

The biggest difference between the AF and a Naval Air is that Air Force provides a greater haevy lifting capacity to support a forward position or occupation of a established base. Heavy lifting meaning greater bomb pay loads and greater logistical support. However Navy and Marine air wings are setup to be on the offensive, move fast and establish a beach head or forward position. This does not require huge aircraft. But dont be fooled every Expeditionary force (supported by a carrier group) carries enough men and supplies to sustain a prolong compaign.
Eventual the Air Force and Army are needed for occupation and logistics.
I could go on, I hope this helps.

EZRhino · 08-24-2005, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sly

I just assumed they used Navy ships.

Ok, now a history question relating to D-Day... when they stormed the beaches, was it mainly Army or were the Marines in there as well? And who's ships did they use?

These are probably odd questions, my mind is spinning now.

D-Day realting to Normandy it was primarily US Army in Navy LST's and landing craft. Most if not all Marines were in the South Pacific conducting our own D-Day's up and down the South Pacific.

theking · 08-24-2005, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnyhey

the marines generally don't use the navy flattops, they have their own ships to launch their air assaults. that's why the marines use the harrier jump jet, because they don't have full size carriers like the navy. the marines don't rely on ANYONE else, they provide ground AND air. that's the way they like it.

The ships used by Marines are Navy ships and are operated by Navy personnel. The Marines fly more than the Harrier's.

johnnyhey · 08-24-2005, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sly

I just assumed they used Navy ships.

Ok, now a history question relating to D-Day... when they stormed the beaches, was it mainly Army or were the Marines in there as well? And who's ships did they use?

These are probably odd questions, my mind is spinning now.

here's an image, as you can see it's significantly smaller than a full size aircraft carrier. that's why they use the harrier. the marines also use f-18's (blue angels planes) that are launched from full size carriers (navy)

sperbonzo · 08-24-2005, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sly

I just assumed they used Navy ships.

Ok, now a history question relating to D-Day... when they stormed the beaches, was it mainly Army or were the Marines in there as well? And who's ships did they use?

These are probably odd questions, my mind is spinning now.

I believe that almost every unit on the US beaches in Normandy were Army. Marines were mostly used in the Pacific Theater.

There were 5000 ships used, and they used everything that could carry troops and equipment. Mostly it was US and British Navy, but they commandered all kinds of ships for that operation

theking · 08-24-2005, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sly

I just assumed they used Navy ships.

Ok, now a history question relating to D-Day... when they stormed the beaches, was it mainly Army or were the Marines in there as well? And who's ships did they use?

These are probably odd questions, my mind is spinning now.

You assumed correctly.

Army...zero Marines...Navy ships. In addition in the Pacific theater the Army made as many if not more beach invasions than the Marines did.

theking · 08-24-2005, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EZRhino

The biggest difference between the AF and a Naval Air is that Air Force provides a greater haevy lifting capacity to support a forward position or occupation of a established base. Heavy lifting meaning greater bomb pay loads and greater logistical support. However Navy and Marine air wings are setup to be on the offensive, move fast and establish a beach head or forward position. This does not require huge aircraft. But dont be fooled every Expeditionary force (supported by a carrier group) carries enough men and supplies to sustain a prolong compaign.
Eventual the Air Force and Army are needed for occupation and logistics.
I could go on, I hope this helps.

Good critique.

Linkster · 08-24-2005, 12:02 PM

One point on the carrriers and who is protecting who - the carriers are part of a large battle group that includes the air wing stationed on board (and other support air wings like sub chasers and radar planes etc), the protection ships like attack subs and a large assortment of destroyers, cruisers etc. There is also typically a set of support ships for replenishment of supplies. Dependant on the missions there may also be a Marine deployment of ships in concert with the Navy's group for ground forces if it is that type of operation.

The group of ships including the subs, the carrier itself, the destroyers and cruisers and the air wings all work together for protection - of course the primary mission of the carrier is to be the platform for the launching of air attacks, wheras the subs may be primarily to scout and protect the carrier (or in some cases to provide for special ops insertion)

A little about the D Day invasion - it actually started the night before with the combined air forces (UK and US) bombing inland and dropping paratroopers behind enemy lines.
Early in the landing on the beaches the first group in was the scouts and UDT experts who basically were the spec ops people that cleared much of the traps, mines and walls with explosives before the landing (a side note - later after the war these groups were all combined into one Navy group called the SEALS)
Then the combined Allied Expeditionary Force which was a combination of US, UK and Canadians armies were brought ashore for the battles supported by the engineers and other groups - the amphibious vessels were brought in by Navy ships but "belonged" to the armies - actually one of the biggest problems they had was with the amphib. tanks - they tried to drop them in too early and most sank with their crews.
Over 4000 ships took part in the invasions with the USS Augusta as the flagship carrying the Admiral and Gen Omar Bradley - I used to have old photos as my stepdad (long deceased and actually ex now LOL) was the Exec Officer on the Augusta - Ill see if I can find them

Anthony · 08-24-2005, 12:13 PM

EZRhino hit it on the nose.

08-23-2005, 10:20 PM	#1
Sly Let's do some business! Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 31,341	Question for the military guys... Why do we have an Air Force and a Navy when it seems like the Navy has a very large air presence? And what different tasks does the Air Force have that the Air Navy doesn't have and vice-versa? __________________ Vacares - Web Hosting, Domains, O365, Security & More - Paxum and BTC Accepted Windows VPS now available Great for TSS, Nifty Stats, remote work, virtual assistants, etc. Click here for more details.

08-23-2005, 11:11 PM	#8
PixeLs Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 11,922	I didn't know about this thing. Glad youn posted it here. __________________ Make money on any traffic. Bi-weekly payments with no hold.

08-24-2005, 12:40 AM	#9
kmanrox aka K-Man Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: The Gutter Posts: 29,292	For the same reason the Army and the Marines exist. Specialties. Army is basic ground stuff, Marines specialize in beach assaults and water-initiated assaults... Ironically since the Marines are a much smaller branch, yet they usually fight first, we get the second-hand weapons and technology that the wealthier Army doesnt use anymore. God bless the USA lol __________________ Crypto HODLr Crypto mining Angel investor

08-24-2005, 01:04 AM	#15
spunkmaster Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 2,052	A carrier protects a fleet. Carrier based jets are air to air and most of the Air Force jets are Air to ground. __________________

08-24-2005, 07:43 AM	#21
theking Nice Kitty Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: The good old USA!!! Posts: 21,053	Bump for Sly. __________________ When you're running down my country hoss...you're walking on the fighting side of me! FOR THE LYING LOWLIFE POSTING AS PATHFINDER...https://gfy.com/fucking-around-and-pr...athfinder.html

08-23-2005, 10:23 PM	#2
tony286 lurker Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: atlanta Posts: 57,021	good question im curious too

08-23-2005, 10:24 PM	#3
Big_Papi Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Osan AB, S. Korea Posts: 144	I was told by a F-15 pilot that most fighter planes based off of carriers are there to support the carrier itself. i.e. they defend within a certain perimeter. This is not to say that they do not also provide support sorties. AF is installation based and provide all roles. This is how I was brought to understand it but I could be wrong. I have been in the USAF for 10 years btw. Dre

08-23-2005, 10:24 PM	#4
Mr Pheer Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 21,483	the Army has more aircraft than the other branches of the military have bet you didnt know that

08-24-2005, 07:52 AM	#22
sperbonzo I'd rather be on my boat. Industry Role: Join Date: May 2003 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 9,748	Basically it is so that each branch can organize it's own set of forces for it's own missions, whatever those happen to be. We could simply have a "military" and have all weapons and personnel under the same command structure, but it would be very hard to be efficient, and certain kinds of missions need certain kinds of people, skills and experience. Naval pilots are particularly skilled in Naval operations, and the command structure is much more simple if the Navy commanders can command their own pilots during their own missions, without having to link up with another branch, eg the Air Force. This is also why the Marines have their own Aircraft. That way they can talk to their own people that are speciallized in dealing with supporting the marine ground units. It's just a more efficient way to set things up. __________________ Michael Sperber / Acella Financial LLC/ Online Payment Processing [email protected] / http://Acellafinancial.com/ ICQ 177961090 / Tel +1 909 NET BILL / Skype msperber

08-24-2005, 10:53 AM	#23
sperbonzo I'd rather be on my boat. Industry Role: Join Date: May 2003 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 9,748	BTW what prompted the question? __________________ Michael Sperber / Acella Financial LLC/ Online Payment Processing [email protected] / http://Acellafinancial.com/ ICQ 177961090 / Tel +1 909 NET BILL / Skype msperber

08-24-2005, 11:12 AM	#30
EZRhino Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: couch Posts: 6,258	The biggest difference between the AF and a Naval Air is that Air Force provides a greater haevy lifting capacity to support a forward position or occupation of a established base. Heavy lifting meaning greater bomb pay loads and greater logistical support. However Navy and Marine air wings are setup to be on the offensive, move fast and establish a beach head or forward position. This does not require huge aircraft. But dont be fooled every Expeditionary force (supported by a carrier group) carries enough men and supplies to sustain a prolong compaign. Eventual the Air Force and Army are needed for occupation and logistics. I could go on, I hope this helps.

08-24-2005, 12:02 PM	#37
Linkster Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: DeltaHell Posts: 3,216	One point on the carrriers and who is protecting who - the carriers are part of a large battle group that includes the air wing stationed on board (and other support air wings like sub chasers and radar planes etc), the protection ships like attack subs and a large assortment of destroyers, cruisers etc. There is also typically a set of support ships for replenishment of supplies. Dependant on the missions there may also be a Marine deployment of ships in concert with the Navy's group for ground forces if it is that type of operation. The group of ships including the subs, the carrier itself, the destroyers and cruisers and the air wings all work together for protection - of course the primary mission of the carrier is to be the platform for the launching of air attacks, wheras the subs may be primarily to scout and protect the carrier (or in some cases to provide for special ops insertion) A little about the D Day invasion - it actually started the night before with the combined air forces (UK and US) bombing inland and dropping paratroopers behind enemy lines. Early in the landing on the beaches the first group in was the scouts and UDT experts who basically were the spec ops people that cleared much of the traps, mines and walls with explosives before the landing (a side note - later after the war these groups were all combined into one Navy group called the SEALS) Then the combined Allied Expeditionary Force which was a combination of US, UK and Canadians armies were brought ashore for the battles supported by the engineers and other groups - the amphibious vessels were brought in by Navy ships but "belonged" to the armies - actually one of the biggest problems they had was with the amphib. tanks - they tried to drop them in too early and most sank with their crews. Over 4000 ships took part in the invasions with the USS Augusta as the flagship carrying the Admiral and Gen Omar Bradley - I used to have old photos as my stepdad (long deceased and actually ex now LOL) was the Exec Officer on the Augusta - Ill see if I can find them __________________ Porn Links Crak for your bank account - Get Addicted FREE LIVE CAM SHOWS

08-24-2005, 12:13 PM	#38
Anthony Keyboard Warrior Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: One of the outer rings of Hell Posts: 9,653	EZRhino hit it on the nose. __________________