So why doesnt someone build a new oil refinery ? - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

budz · 08-21-2005, 03:02 PM

51......

aico · 08-21-2005, 03:02 PM

The only reason why the gas prices are so high is because people keep paying for it, if I had a product that everyone couldn't live without, I'd see how high I could raise the prices too. They keep raising them, and people keep paying for it... figure it out.

dready · 08-21-2005, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aico

The only reason why the gas prices are so high is because people keep paying for it, if I had a product that everyone couldn't live without, I'd see how high I could raise the prices too. They keep raising them, and people keep paying for it... figure it out.

The first part of that sentence is true. The rest... you haven't taken economics 101 have you?

Demand is starting to exceed supply. It's called peak oil. You'll be very familiar with this term very soon.

budz · 08-21-2005, 03:28 PM

51......

jimmyf · 08-21-2005, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cambaby

You are so stupid its funny.

was thinking the same

jimmyf · 08-21-2005, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJ Gold

Is that supposed to be a joke?

don't think so but it made me laugh... Only on GFY

budz · 08-21-2005, 03:50 PM

51......

jimmyf · 08-21-2005, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sly

Its more complicated than that.

The cost of alternative energy sources is still pretty high. The demand is so low for the time being that it just isn't worth doing. Cars can run on methanol but right now its more expensive than gas due to development costs and lack of demand.

Alternative energy sources will start coming more and more into play. The government does have many grants available to help people setup alternative energy sources. For example, the State of California will pay up to half the cost of setting your home up with wind powered energy. It costs around $40k to setup and the government will pay $20k. With that grant, a typical home will make back their $20k investment within 10 years. If I had land, I would totally take advantage of that.

There are programs available. You just have to look.

shit wind farm's are in trouble in California, they are killing the brids.

dready · 08-21-2005, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmyf

shat wind farm's are in trouble in California, they are killing the brids.

Quote:

"Do you know how many birds die every day?" They crash into skyscrapers and plate glass windows; they're crushed by trucks; they're sucked into jet engines and gag on smog. Kids with BB guns knock them off. Windmills are a concern, but they don't appear high on anyone's list of avian threats."

Source: Do Windmills Eat Birds?

STFU · 08-21-2005, 04:06 PM

Reminds of "So why doesnt someone build a money-growing tree?"

Fucking idiot.

dready · 08-21-2005, 04:35 PM

Back to the topic at hand:

Number of refineries in the U.S.: 149
Number of refineries in 1981: More than 300
Capacity growth since 1981: -10%
Gasoline consumption since 1981: +45%
Gasoline imported from other countries: 10% of total consumption
Last NEW oil refinery build it the US: 1976
Number of refineries in the process of getting built: 1

From the New York Times: No New Refineries in 29 Years? There Might Well Be a Reason

budz · 08-21-2005, 04:43 PM

51......

dready · 08-21-2005, 04:44 PM

WASHINGTON - America's unquenched thirst for gasoline is stretching the nation's refineries to their limits. Even so, no new refineries are likely to be built soon, and that helps ensure that gas prices will stay high as America becomes increasingly dependent on foreign-made gasoline.

High investment costs and low profits have discouraged the building of any U.S. refineries since 1976. Absent new refineries, rising demand for gas will outpace American refiners' ability to make it.

U.S. and global demand for gasoline is at all-time highs. American refineries are running at more than 90 percent capacity, and at up to 96 percent in peak times. That's close to full throttle, and without precedent.

The soaring demand is highly profitable for refiners, who are squeezing out every gallon of gas they can. But their strain to meet the demand is one reason you're paying so much at the pump.

Investors fear that U.S. refineries are stretched too thin. A single accident could disrupt the strained supplies and lead to shortages. To ensure against that risk, buyers bid up the price of oil contracts, and the price of gasoline -- a refined derivative of oil -- rises in the process.

In virtually any other business, such tight production capacity would spark investment in new facilities. But refining isn't a typical business. Few Americans want refineries in their back yards, polluting the neighborhood and driving down home prices.

And a new, modern refinery costs more than $2.5 billion. That seems like Mount Everest to an industry that's coming out of two decades of weak profits.

Annual refinery profits have averaged below 6 percent in the 29 years since the last new refinery opened in the United States in Garyville, La.

Earlier this year, the U.S. Energy Department released its annual peek 20 years into the future. One conclusion: It's "unlikely that new refineries will be built in the United States."

Instead, the agency said, existing refineries will expand to produce another 5.5 million barrels per day of gasoline. That still will fall short of demand.

Foreign-made gas will bridge the gap. Imports of finished gasoline account for about 14 percent of the gas sold in the United States today, according to the Energy Department, and will represent more than 20 percent in 2025.

Incremental increases in output boost the amount of U.S.-refined gasoline, but all signs still point to a growing reliance on gas refined overseas.

"The prospect of energy independence for petroleum products is pretty much a mirage," said Robert Slaughter, the president of the National Petrochemical and Refiners Association in Washington. "The question is, 'Will we be able to keep our reliance down?' "

08-21-2005, 03:02 PM	#51
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08-21-2005, 03:28 PM	#54
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08-21-2005, 03:50 PM	#57
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08-21-2005, 04:35 PM	#61
dready Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Toronto, ON Posts: 5,247	Back to the topic at hand: Number of refineries in the U.S.: 149 Number of refineries in 1981: More than 300 Capacity growth since 1981: -10% Gasoline consumption since 1981: +45% Gasoline imported from other countries: 10% of total consumption Last NEW oil refinery build it the US: 1976 Number of refineries in the process of getting built: 1 From the New York Times: No New Refineries in 29 Years? There Might Well Be a Reason __________________ ICQ: 91139591

08-21-2005, 04:43 PM	#62
budz Disruptive Innovator Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Vegas Posts: 4,230	51...... __________________ C:\Code\ C:\Code\Run\

08-21-2005, 03:02 PM	#52
aico Moo Moo Cow Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Washington State Posts: 14,748	The only reason why the gas prices are so high is because people keep paying for it, if I had a product that everyone couldn't live without, I'd see how high I could raise the prices too. They keep raising them, and people keep paying for it... figure it out.

08-21-2005, 04:06 PM	#60
STFU Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 37	Reminds of "So why doesnt someone build a money-growing tree?" Fucking idiot.

08-21-2005, 04:44 PM	#63
dready Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Toronto, ON Posts: 5,247	WASHINGTON - America's unquenched thirst for gasoline is stretching the nation's refineries to their limits. Even so, no new refineries are likely to be built soon, and that helps ensure that gas prices will stay high as America becomes increasingly dependent on foreign-made gasoline. High investment costs and low profits have discouraged the building of any U.S. refineries since 1976. Absent new refineries, rising demand for gas will outpace American refiners' ability to make it. U.S. and global demand for gasoline is at all-time highs. American refineries are running at more than 90 percent capacity, and at up to 96 percent in peak times. That's close to full throttle, and without precedent. The soaring demand is highly profitable for refiners, who are squeezing out every gallon of gas they can. But their strain to meet the demand is one reason you're paying so much at the pump. Investors fear that U.S. refineries are stretched too thin. A single accident could disrupt the strained supplies and lead to shortages. To ensure against that risk, buyers bid up the price of oil contracts, and the price of gasoline -- a refined derivative of oil -- rises in the process. In virtually any other business, such tight production capacity would spark investment in new facilities. But refining isn't a typical business. Few Americans want refineries in their back yards, polluting the neighborhood and driving down home prices. And a new, modern refinery costs more than $2.5 billion. That seems like Mount Everest to an industry that's coming out of two decades of weak profits. Annual refinery profits have averaged below 6 percent in the 29 years since the last new refinery opened in the United States in Garyville, La. Earlier this year, the U.S. Energy Department released its annual peek 20 years into the future. One conclusion: It's "unlikely that new refineries will be built in the United States." Instead, the agency said, existing refineries will expand to produce another 5.5 million barrels per day of gasoline. That still will fall short of demand. Foreign-made gas will bridge the gap. Imports of finished gasoline account for about 14 percent of the gas sold in the United States today, according to the Energy Department, and will represent more than 20 percent in 2025. Incremental increases in output boost the amount of U.S.-refined gasoline, but all signs still point to a growing reliance on gas refined overseas. "The prospect of energy independence for petroleum products is pretty much a mirage," said Robert Slaughter, the president of the National Petrochemical and Refiners Association in Washington. "The question is, 'Will we be able to keep our reliance down?' " __________________ ICQ: 91139591