Fine, then how about this:

If the soldiers do not want to fight:

1). WTF did you join the reserves? The free meal? or to make home videos?

2). Simply fucking quite or run to Canada!

The rest that I spewed is all part of the big picture, called history (and knowing your shit), but AGAIN, some only want to see what they want. What a cute fuzzy little world some live in.

As I stated many times before, I fucking hate Bush and the christian coalition he belongs to, but this 'issues' makes sense, but only after one opens their eyes to all avenues, not only the one-sided (oh people are fucking dying wah wah) views will they see.

Off topic rant ... nice try.

The Oil argument is a totally bullshit liberal argument that has no facts backing it up, that's all.

http://www.eia.doe.gov/neic/rankings/crudebycountry.htm

as far as I am concerned this is an ArtBell/ 'secrect society of billion ... blah blah' kinda thread.

First of all, this thread isn't about liberals or conservatives. I don't think either group is bad as a whole, although I personally disagree with most conservative values, that's an entire different issue. Democrats and Republicans on the other hand, well, there's really very little difference between either party when it comes to foreign policy. Democrats were on board at the beginning of this war just as much as Republicans were. I do not support the democratic party in any way and this is certainly not what this thread is about.

I realize that oil is not the only factor involved, but I do think it's the defining factor. That's why we started with Iraq before Syria. I believe having a military presence in the middle east and opening up Iraq to free market neo-liberalism are the other two factors. Anything about fighting terrorists or WMD or freedom being on the march is all just noise to keep us rabble from thinking too much.

How is that? Do you notice the other country in the top ten that attempted to keep it's oil from US corporations and sell it to the Chinese? What did the US government attempt to do to them less than 3 years ago?

That chart only shows US imports, it does not show the untapped reserves.

I'm pretty sure this Paco charector just likes to hear himself talk.

'learn history, it justifies the war'

Ok, what part?

'ok how about this, the soldier's can just run to Canada'


Honestly, WTF is this guy talking about???

Do something about it or shut up, that's fair, but I disagree. Political discussion has been silenced for the most part over the past half century, and it's had an extremely negative effect on the people's control over their governments. Discussion amongst the common man is one of the keys to successful democracy.

I just don't see it that way. If you look at this timeline, back in 96 Iraq started fucking up, and not listening to the UN, and that's where I see the iraq conflict starting.

http://www.eia.doe.gov/neic/rankings/crudebycountry.htm

Clinton bombed them for years after bush sr. Sure, maybe the current Bush admin used the WMD and not allowing inspectors to search palaces as an excuse to invade when they had oil on their mind, but it's not that obvious imo, and there are third party orgs in place now that will make sure that the US never steals or even gets a break on even a drop of oil.

I really value human life more than any other ideology.

It's really quite a shame..bring the troops home already..enough people have died

how many died already btw?

5000 or? so I think they'll leave @ 20000+

hahaha, when richie boy gets drunk, his American hating inferiority complex really has an edge to it. :1orglaugh

it's rediculous yes. i saw thru this war as a cheap power grab by whistle ass when it started. it has nothing to do with hating america, i'm also sick of US servicemen/women dying for BUSH

that would be a never ending war. not only americans die but innocent people of iraq are also suffering.

0.

Since Iraq is not an "Occupation".

Its a "Liberation".
No choice now but to go all the way and get the Iraqi's to have there own government.

No thanks to the world at large for sniveling about it the whole time because they didnt get a cut in a countries reconstruction.

Reconstruction is big money and so is the oil.

Once the Iraqi's realise there lives and deaths are not due to the oil but to those leaders that oppressed them. A free standing Iraqi GOvernment will have alot of power and well...

Looks like they wont be selling much oil to Europe and other nations that did not help.

When the US leaves Iraq another power will take over (China, Iran, Russia or all three)

Then the western economies will be held hostage to communists and muslim radicals in command of mid-east oil

The best thing about the US leaving Iraq is that nobody will care about the IRaqis anymore

Nobody gave a flying fuck about them when Saddam was gassing them or Kofi Annan was stealing the Oil for Food money

All you "bleeding hearts" really are full of shit.. you dont' give a fuck about Iraqi people now... and you didn't then... you wont' in the future

You just hate America

This entire thing, from 9-11 on, has been about oil.

Sure the US could have just stood by and watch Saddam continue killing Iraqi's.

The occassional gassing of Kurds, and of course training terrorists and even funding terrorists in Palestine awarding suicide Bombers family large sums of money for the lost one carrying out a suicide attack.

To the west of Iraq.

Saudi's. A Borderline Monarchy

East Of Iraq we got Iran Borderline Theocracy.

3 Oil rich nations not a of which has the people in power but kings and Idealistic Theologists.

I am not for Bush I think he is an ass doing it the way he did. USA could have got UN authorisation and backing with more timing. But Bush is a Texan and also not the smartest of America's Politicians.

It would be nice to know that the troops would be coming home within a year or two but it's highly unlikely. Although I hate to say it or to have voted on it , but I think there will be atleast 10k that will die first before troops come home and that'll be around 2009. Just my :2 cents: and yes I'm a Bush Hater so :321GFY

anyone in this thread lose a loved one or close friend on 9-11?

How many of you have stopped using oil in protest of this oil war?

i haven't stopped, but we don't hardly drive our car, we mostly ride the bus

spoken like a true Fox believer. Don't agree with the war = Hate America. No wonder Bush smirks all the time when he has idiots who believe in this fucking thing.

Not good enough. If you consume oil you are part of the problem despite your rhetoric.

Its so sad but the current admin doesnt care about the welfare of the military. Until people wake up and realize this ,then it will change.

LOL. you link to imports after the country has been bombed to shit with pipeline sabotages almost weekly? and you're got the NERVE to talk about no facts????

Greatest Oil Reserves by Country, 2005
Rank Country Proved reserves
(billion barrels)
1. Saudi Arabia 261.9
2. Canada 178.81
3. Iran 125.8
4. Iraq 115.0
5. Kuwait 101.5
6. United Arab Emirates 97.8
7. Venezuela 77.2
8. Russia 60.0
9. Libya 39.0
10. Nigeria 35.3

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0872964.html

Almost 3 of the 5 countries above Iraq on your list TOGETHER have as much oil as Iraq does by itself. It's like saying China doesn't have a military because they aren't shooting at you right now lol.

Iraq has the 4th highest Oil reserves in the world. The fact that as of right this second you aren't importing as much of it doesn't mean shit you 'tards.

That said.. when we are really running out of oil everyone in America will be thanking their lucky stars that Iraq's reserves are secured (however loosely at the moment.)
Liberal or Republican when the cost of food and medicines and gas start really rising you won't give two shits about foreign brown people.

I believe Canada's ranking there includes the alberta tar sands, which, while salvagable, is not EASILY salvagable by any stretch. At last I heard, it takes about 1 barrel's worth of energy to extract 2.5 barrel's worth from the sands.

Consider tar sands as 'oil of last resort'. When they start going after that like they mean it, you know the world's in for a world of hurt. :(

SEE B & C below.

I never get tired of the correlation between "how many soldiers have to die?" to "You muslim lovers hate Bush and are anti-American."



[QUOTE=NichePay - StuartD]
A). I'm pretty sure this Paco charector just likes to hear himself talk.
B). 'learn history, it justifies the war'
C). Ok, what part?
D). 'ok how about this, the soldier's can just run to Canada'
E). Honestly, WTF is this guy talking about???
[/QUOTE=NichePay - StuartD]


A). First off, no, it just so happens that you (and those of similar 'grip on reality') are not providing a real return, so I must battle with the next best opponent.

B). Are the actions of the majority (not all, but many of the Islam/Muslim) of the party in question, throughout history are to be forgotten? (You Roman Catholic?) If over time an object continues along the same path, do you not think it is wise to assume IT will continue along the same course?
QUESTION: Are you familiar with the history of the Islamic and Muslim ?faith?; and what they preach?

Well, when you go to war against a certain creed, the teachings, actions and history of the said faith have to be mentioned.

QUESTION:
When debating about the Holocaust, does one not mention the Aryans and skinheads?

C). The part of the Koran that states something along the lines of: Islamic people (Muslims included) are the only 'true-people' (here is where extremist tend to go off) and the rest (infidels) are not (people), and must be dealt with.

D). Is it not an option? (Illegal or not. ties or not; is it, or is it not an option?)

E). Choices and their freedom to chose ... that is WTF:
1). The only reason for joining should have solely been to protect the ideals of the MAJORITY first, and their career IN THE CORE). They decided to join, they can decide to leave (yah, with a penalty, but they should have thought of that).

Is it the MAJORITY of soldiers that are bitching so much, about the war, and how many of them are dying etc? (Or only the reds; & the yellows that joined with an alternate agenda - mooch an education and career, not considering the risks. Time to earn your pay!)
2). They are there (this time around) because the actions of the radical Muslims (same lit book the Islam use).

D.Storm1 appearance was by invite ? Kuwait asked if the US could assist. The US (and the Brits, which I do not see/read many whine about) was waiting for the end of the ?DS agreement? so they could finally to leave.
Guess Kuwait hung the proverbial carrot (OIL) in front of the US horse!

QUESTION:
Is the Bush also assisting Afghanistan, S.Africa, Darfur, Niger etc for oil. WOW, what ambitions! Imagine, living the American dream doing all this for money (many of you like to use greed and money as an excuse ? can the ex-cocaine user not?)


To the ignorant, yes, I guess it would be viewed as ?off-topic? (because they do not know what is entailed, only what they are pissed at ? blind faith).



No, he seems to have his ?neutral hat? on - seems like he is viewing things from many points of view, not only a bias one - however, when a good point is dropped (never mind two), out with the insults.
Awesome defense mechanism!

Rich
As I have pointed out multiple times
Weapons inspectors found a massive supply of flu vacine when they were ultimately allowed to search for WMD.

Flu Vacine is produced by growing the live infuenza virus killing it and converting the bio mass into an injection into the bloodstream to fool the body into producing the necessary anti-bodies.

Influenza WMD is procudec by growing the live influenza virus and NOT killing it.

All that is necessary for the Weapons grade Influenza to be hidden completely is to have enough time to kill the virus and convert the bio mass into vaccine.

The quantity of Flu vaccine was so great that Saddam could have immunized every man woman and child (including all the rebels who were trying to kill him).

The only way you can argue that the was never any Biological WMD is if you truely believe that Saddam was such a nice dictator that he would immunize people who were trying to kill him from a deadly Influenza Virus.

Based on his actions against his own people, I find that very hard to believe.

Add to that at the exact time you have an undeniable proof that Saddam was growing the Influenza virus (either for vaccine production, or as WMD) US supply of the vaccine was down 50% because of tainted production.

You can understand why taking that asshole out was justified.

These people who joined the military knew they were risking thier lives. (the ones I know that joined, did so wanting to kill "the enemy"; they thought it was cool to be "government approved" killers) So I say: the more that Die, the Better :thumbsup

If you kill someone for personal reasons you are a murderer (and will get punished). If you kill innocent people because of a decision by your government you are a hero. :eek7

With enough assurance that this country would someday reach its win-win situation.. :Oh crap

Whoa. That's heavy, man. :stoned

go to sleep .... oupsss, you are already sleeping....


Note: WMD has been dropped a long time ago by the administration...Replaced by regime change, then once done by " spreading freedom " then by " we will stay the course " , then by " a safer Irak makes America safer "...

A lot of good lines for a T-shirt shop...

dude, don't talk facts with children. thery're too busy screaming their point of view to hear you.

And that has what to do with Iraq?

I need to correct my post from last eve (not that it matters, as I am sure it will be viewed as fodder, or I am simply listening to myself, again - Oh, do I love the sexy sound of my voice.).


NichePay - StuartD
I never get tired of the correlation between "how many soldiers have to die?" to "You muslim lovers hate Bush and are anti-American."

PACO's REPLY: PLEASE SEE 'B' & 'C', listed below.


NichePay - StuartD
A). I'm pretty sure this Paco charector just likes to hear himself talk.
B). 'learn history, it justifies the war'
C). Ok, what part?
D). 'ok how about this, the soldier's can just run to Canada'
E). Honestly, WTF is this guy talking about???


PACO's REPLY:
A). First off, no, it just so happens that you (and those of similar 'grip on reality') are not providing a real return, so I must battle with the next best opponent.

B). Are the actions of the majority (not all, but many of the Islam/Muslim) of the party in question, throughout history are to be forgotten? (You Roman Catholic?) If over time an object continues along the same path, do you not think it is wise to assume IT will continue along the same course?
QUESTION: Are you familiar with the history of the Islamic and Muslim 'faith'; and what they preach?

Well, when you go to war against a certain creed, the teachings, actions and history of the said faith have to be mentioned.

QUESTION:
When debating about the Holocaust, does one not mention the Aryans and skinheads?

C). The part of the Koran that states something along the lines of: Islamic people (Muslims included) are the only 'true-people' (here is where extremist tend to go off) and the rest (infidels) are not (people), and must be dealt with.

D). Is it not an option? (Illegal or not. ties or not; is it, or is it not an option?)

E). Choices and their freedom to chose ... that is WTF:
1). The only reason for joining should have solely been to protect the ideals of the MAJORITY first, and their career IN THE CORE). They decided to join; they can decide to leave (yah, with a penalty, but they should have thought of that).

Is it the MAJORITY of soldiers that are bitching so much, about the war, and how many of them are dying etc? (Or only the reds; & the yellows that joined with an alternate agenda - mooch an education and career, not considering the risks. Time to earn your pay!)
2). They are there (this time around) because the actions of the radical Muslims (same lit book the Islam use).

D.Storm1 appearance was by invite - Kuwait asked if the US could assist. The US (and the Brits, which I do not see/read many whine about) was waiting for the end of the 'DS agreement' so they could finally to leave.
Guess Kuwait hung the proverbial carrot (OIL) in front of the US horse!

QUESTION:
Is the Bush also assisting Afghanistan, S.Africa, Darfur, Niger etc for oil. WOW, what ambitions! Imagine, living the American dream doing all this for money (many of you like to use greed and money as an excuse ... can the ex-cocaine user not?)


NichePay - StuartD
It really helps me to realize how these discussions can go so off topic when there is such a huge comprehension problem.

PACO's REPLY:
To the ignorant, yes, I guess it would be viewed as "off-topic" (because they do not know what is entailed, only what they are pissed at - blind faith).

Rich
And when did pointing out the failures of a leader turn into "hating" or "bashing"? When a leader does something wrong, people who take issue with it are not "haters".

PACO's REPLY:
I showed a few people this thread and after viewing the images posted and as well from many of the 'tones' used to describe Bush, most agreed it seems many of you do not like Bush. Some do feel I am generalizing in thinking most Islamic/Muslim followers are extremists, and I'll agree, which is why I corrected myself.






Originally Posted by Mr. Pat
spoken like a true Fox believer. Don't agree with the war = Hate America. No wonder Bush smirks all the time when he has idiots who believe in this fucking thing.

PACO's REPLY:
No, he seems to have his 'neutral hat' on - seems like he is viewing things from many points of view, not only a bias one - however, when a good point is dropped (never mind two), out with the insults.
Awesome defence mechanism!

that's all well and good except that I never said any one of these.

This is why talking to you about any of this is pointless.

8 minutes ago

BAGHDAD, Iraq - The U.S. military said Thursday that another Marine was killed in action in the same Euphrates River valley where 14 Marines died in the worst roadside bombing targeting American forces in the
Iraq war.

WOW, looks like the US could have saved a ton of cash by going after the oil in Canada/Alberta ... boy am I glad they decided to go after Iraq's stash.

Getting deadly out there ...

Have a nice BBQ, GW :thumbsup

:eek7 :eek7

If you could PROVE that the US's agenda is Oil, then you'd be a very rich person right now, because you'd have an exclusive story with every media source in the world.


NO ONE CAN PROVE THAT IRAQ WAR = OIL, Period.

I strongly disagree.

The US originally backed the wrong horse. That happens all the time. Maybe you could lend the state department your crystal ball so they never do that again..

The US went to great lengths to avoid civilian casualties. But, that didn't stop Saddam from intentionally using Iraqi citizens as human shields. I think you could fairly call that cowardice.

Does the US want a free Iraq? Of course. Democracy is the only real hope for lasting peace.

Remember folks.. critisizing the Bush Administration and his Neocons is HATING America... And if you are an American.. well.. you are simply not patriotic.. :clown


Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials (Nazy Germany) "Of coourse the people don't want war. ....Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."

lol .. you have no clue how it works.. You think that mainstream media report everything of relevance...?! Try to do some research will you..


As for Oil.. This is only one of the reason of the invasion.. Read PNAC and you might learn a bit more..

I listen to NPR for at least a few hours every day, and surf news websites like bbc.com, cnn.com, worldtribune.com, and you know what they all have in common, they report on FACTS. But I guess they're not as reliable as PNAC.info. :1orglaugh

Simple error: your post was receiving the same reply (SEE B & C) intended for Rich (enter the error - too many items on my clip board and I simply clicked on the wrong one).
I am sure you knew that, but decided to use it against.

No biggie to me. As you state, it is pointless talking to me as you do not have the ability to overlook simple errors.





Ypou are correct

lmao.. continue to live in your comforting bubble and dont do the reasearch.. Oh.. PNAC was written by the top neocons.. yeah.. it must be fake.. :helpme

Explain .... and back it up ...

PS: search for " Scorpions Iraq " and tell me again ...