sixxxthsense

you're on crack, stick to SE0, why do you think all Canadian DOCTORS are going to the US to practice medicine??? CUZ they get paid more in US they dont even make 100K here its sad

the Shemp

exactly, i see my wifes doc makes over 350,000K plus the other doc in that clinic makes 360K. there are quite a few over 500K.

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theking

I have a friend that is a doctor...lives in a small town...and he pays personal income tax on well over $300,000.00 per year. He is a GP.

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FunForOne

I'll have to find the list, but many years ago I saw the average doctors salaries compared by country.

US was number 1
and I think Germany was number 2


This was sometime in the 90's, but Canadian doctors didn't make the list. Has there been a significant change in the last 10-15 years?

WiredGuy

Tell that to my mother, that's what she's earning. I can't speak for other Canadian doctors but she obviously knows what she's doing.
WG

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FunForOne

I have heard that out of the graduating classes in medical schools in canada, 1/4 leave to work in the US.

FunForOne

Not all of them leave canada for income reasons. Many are frustrated that they cant treat their patients using common medical technology.

woj

http://stats.bls.gov/ lots of useful info... including ALL possible professions and their salaries... Canada probably has a similar site..

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FunForOne

Here ya go, old article but says that Canadian doctors make less than US nurses.

Good luck with that bypass surgery guys.


The 'greedy doctors' myth
After spending a decade in university, going $100,000 in debt and taking on life-or-death responsibility, doctors are wondering why they make the same salary as auto plant workers. Dave Rogers reports.

Dave Rogers
The Ottawa Citizen

Tuesday, October 29, 2002
CREDIT: Tim Fraser, The Ottawa Citizen

Mark Stevens, a skilled tradesman at the Ford plant in Windsor, earns about $90,000 a year. Workers willing to put in 56 to 60 hours a week at any of the Big Three auto plants can increase their uncome to up to $130,000 a year after completing a free apprenticeship program.

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With take-home pay lower than some auto plant workers, no fringe benefits and increasing overhead, many family doctors are asking themselves why anyone would want their jobs.

"I essentially make what my plumber or auto mechanic earns once I have paid my overhead," said Daniel Maher, a Glebe physician who has been practising medicine since 1991. "Why spend nine years in university for all the responsibility and risk of lawsuits to make what a beginning engineer would earn?"

Frustration over pay, many family doctors argue, is leading some physicians to leave their practices for other work and is turning students away from a profession that once promised a healthy income. The result: there are not enough family physicians to go around.

The numbers tell the story. A university medical education takes nine years, usually leaving new doctors with $100,000 in debt plus office rent, support staff salaries, equipment expenses, insurance and other overhead costs that devour at least 40 per cent of their earnings.

A family doctor bills OHIP $54 for a one-hour patient checkup (the gas or fuel oil company can charge $110 for a furnace checkup). A doctor receives $25 for a minor assessment while paying an average overhead cost of $15 to $17 per visit.

Family doctors and general practitioners in 1999-2000, working a typical 54.7-hour week, on average billed OHIP $168,300 a year, according to Ontario Medical Association figures. Their average net earnings after overhead expenses is $99,300, the OMA reports.

That means their pay is less than skilled tradespeople willing to work 50 to 60 hours a week, plus some weekends, installing and repairing machinery at vehicle assembly plants in Windsor, Oshawa, Oakville and St. Thomas.

Other tradespeople can earn more than $75,000 a year, as much or more than a doctor working a 40-hour week.

Geof Botting, head of Ottawa's Regional Centre for Excellence in Skilled Occupations, says efficient drywall workers, carpet installers and automatic transmission rebuilders can earn more than $80,000 annually. The centre is a partnership among area school boards and community colleges to promote skilled trades as a career option.

Mr. Botting said good auto-body repair workers earn $70,000 to $80,000 a year.

Skilled autoworkers willing to work 56 to 60 hours a week, plus some weekends, at General Motors, Ford or DaimlerChrysler can earn up to $130,000 a year after completing a free apprenticeship program, according to John Bettes, a Canadian Auto Workers spokesman.

Tool and die makers, electricians, industrial mechanics and millwrights working at auto assembly plants earn $34 an hour.

"The average guy makes $70,000 to $75,000 a year, but there can be extremes where people make well over $100,000 a year," Mr. Bettes said. "If you worked every third weekend you would get $100,000 and if you worked two out of three weekends you would probably get over $130,000." These workers need to have done a four-year, 8,000-hour apprenticeship, plus continual upgrades, with auto companies, parts suppliers or aerospace corporations. The schooling is paid for by the corporations.

Being a doctor, on the other hand, is not nearly as lucrative as most people think, Dr. Maher said.

"I know a lot of people working in the government with a bachelor's degree who do little most of the time and make $60,000 a year plus benefits. I make $75,000 a year with no benefits. There is no pension, no sick days, nothing."

Most doctors work extra hours if they can to earn extra income, he said. He said a family doctor working an average 37.5 hours a week will gross about $132,000 a year and spend at least a third of his income on overhead.

Walk-in clinics take an average of 43 per cent of doctors' incomes for overhead costs, Dr. Maher said.

"Three years ago, when the Coalition of Family Doctors of Ontario asked people what they thought their doctors earned for seeing them, they estimated it was $120 for a physical examination and $50 for a cold. The real answers to those questions are $54 for the physical and $27.50 for the cold.

"It is half or less of what people think we are making. When people think we earn $150,000 a year, it is only $75,000. I know a lot of engineers fresh out of university who earn starting salaries of $70,000 a year plus bonuses."

Dr. Maher said when he travels to visit doctor friends in the United States and explains he makes the equivalent of $55,000 U.S. a year, they don't believe him because that is what nurses earn there.

"When it comes to negotiations, the government says we are just greedy doctors," Dr. Maher said. "The average person just nods his head and says we earn $200,000 a year.

"The government is paying GPs $105 to $110 an hour. If you take off the overhead of $35 an hour you are left with $75, which is what I am making. Who is going to spend nine years in university, run up a $100,000 debt and accept all the stress and responsibility to make what an electrician is making?"

It will take a salary of $150,000 a year without benefits for a 37.5-hour week or $130,000 salary with benefits to attract more Ontario doctors into family medicine, Dr. Maher said.

Ottawa's Doctor Shortage - Queueing for Health Care

phogirl69

One of my uncles is a doctor and is in "Radiology" whatever that is, but I think his starting salary was around 250k and this was over 10 yrs ago... i know it is much higher now but I don't know exactly how much he makes tho... I am pretty sure he is loaded though.

I only know how much he started out at because my mom told me to try to motivate me to do good in school ( It didn't help much though cause look what I became) lol

He did go to an Ivy League school tho (Harvard) so that probably helps a lot.
This is in the US tho, not Canada

I had another uncle who was a general practitioner say that he needs to make at least 14k just to pay his bills, so I am guessing he must make somewhere in the 6 figures.. .almost all doctors do I think..

SleazyDream

i know a few - net taxable for non specialists is about 150ish give or take - gross much more but gross means nothing

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StatsJunky

It's the specialty fields that make the money. GP is exactly that. They're basically jack of all the trades and have a general knowledge of all medicine.

If you have skin problems they will recommend a Dermatoligist.
If you have back problems off to a Chiropractor.
etc. etc.

I don't see how they can command too much more income when the majority of times if there is any problems they will reffer you to a specialist in that field. Not to mention they probably get some sort of kickback from their refferals.

I know when I wanted to see a dermatoligist I couldn't just go and setup an appointment with them, I needed to get a refferal from a GP/family physician first. So the government has to fork out money for me to see GP to say go to this dermatoligist. Alot of money being thrown away on exactly this.

Sly

I see your point, but think about the flip side.

If everybody that thought they needed to see a derm went without being referred, the derm would probably end up with a lot of patients that didn't really need their attention. And as you mentioned, the specialists make more money, which means the government would end up paying out even more money than they do with that current referral requirement. I'm assuming you live in Canada.

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StatsJunky

I see your point and I do live in Canada.

Maybe that's the way it is. Could also be double dipping to bill more patients also.

Shortbread

From what I have heard from people that graduated with me, doctors are making at least 100K min. for a GP in urban cities. More if you live in smaller cities in the middle of nowhere and WAY more if you are specialized.

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Rhesus

Shut up, you nitwit, clueless idiot!

aleck

canadian medical system is so ugly in fact

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