So who thinks AVS sites... - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

David! · 07-22-2005, 07:07 PM

Woj made me do it

Cory W · 07-22-2005, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberAge-Dave

Will they make a come back? Where did they go.
Damn I wish I can show you guys the daily sales our webmasters make off of their AVS sites.

I know this place is focused on TGP's, but guys. Sometimes you have to think outside the box.
We have been paying out millions every month. And that is no lie.
Click My Sig, There they are. Go ahead. Do it.

Dave,

The problem is that most of the people on this board, or any board for the matter, have little idea of the type of revenue the AVS makes today. I can think of two AVS programs that bring in more revenue than most every major program does.

It wasn't that long ago that a post came up asking if AVS programs made more than a TGP site. I got shredded when I posted there was no comparison, favoring the AVS program.

An AVS and a TGP are not even closely similar dynamically. AVS programs convert surfers at a higher level and simply put, they offer higher-quality content (specifically Cyberage). The actually process transactions, lots of them I might add.

I could go on, but I would not be very popular for doing so. I also would not have posted in this thread had I not seen you reply to it.

lchaim · 07-22-2005, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog

I have firm belief that AVS will come back stronger than ever due to increasing governmental regulations

It's only a matter of time---that writing's been on the wall for a while now.

jayeff · 07-22-2005, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WEG Cory

I can think of two AVS programs that bring in more revenue than most every major program does.

The fact that the programs bring in a lot of money says nothing about the value (or lack of it) to the webmasters who build the sites/galleries. And you are skating over a couple of fairly important issues:

The first is that some of the time you used to be able to spend earning money from another source (or driving extra traffic to your AVS), now has to go into replacing the traffic you used to get for free. And unless something has changed dramatically in the last year or two, the AVS operators take the same 45%-50% commission as when they did provide tons of traffic. Effectively you get paid nothing for that extra work and time you must now spend.

Although traffic to the major links lists has been declining over recent years (check Alexa), the number of sites listed has grown enormously, largely thanks to the script-generated sites which now account for the majority of submissions over. The program operators have also put endless traffic leaks onto their links lists: with the combined effect that an individual site is now lucky to see double-digit daily traffic into its member area. So until 1999 you could reasonably double your membership income with upsells, but by 2003 you were lucky to be making 10% extra. I don't imagine that has improved.

Despite all that, obviously old-school AVS does still work for some people. But if you are going to be learning from scratch and don't want to mass-produce sites, the new-style video-AEN programs require similar skills and are a much better deal. They offer broadly similar terms and they are arguably easier to sell. Video is increasingly popular and it is easier to be truthful and direct about what you are offering. By their nature AEN networks have built-in quality control (something AVS operators were still shying away from last time I looked) so their retention is good, and on top of all that, they provide the content (unless you want to use your own) and the hosting for free. In short, if you can do AVS, you can do AEN, and you would have to try really hard not to produce a better bottom line from the latter.

Cory W · 07-22-2005, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayeff

The fact that the programs bring in a lot of money says nothing about the value (or lack of it) to the webmasters who build the sites/galleries. And you are skating over a couple of fairly important issues:

The first is that some of the time you used to be able to spend earning money from another source (or driving extra traffic to your AVS), now has to go into replacing the traffic you used to get for free. And unless something has changed dramatically in the last year or two, the AVS operators take the same 45%-50% commission as when they did provide tons of traffic. Effectively you get paid nothing for that extra work and time you must now spend.

Although traffic to the major links lists has been declining over recent years (check Alexa), the number of sites listed has grown enormously, largely thanks to the script-generated sites which now account for the majority of submissions over. The program operators have also put endless traffic leaks onto their links lists: with the combined effect that an individual site is now lucky to see double-digit daily traffic into its member area. So until 1999 you could reasonably double your membership income with upsells, but by 2003 you were lucky to be making 10% extra. I don't imagine that has improved.

Despite all that, obviously old-school AVS does still work for some people. But if you are going to be learning from scratch and don't want to mass-produce sites, the new-style video-AEN programs require similar skills and are a much better deal. They offer broadly similar terms and they are arguably easier to sell. Video is increasingly popular and it is easier to be truthful and direct about what you are offering. By their nature AEN networks have built-in quality control (something AVS operators were still shying away from last time I looked) so their retention is good, and on top of all that, they provide the content (unless you want to use your own) and the hosting for free. In short, if you can do AVS, you can do AEN, and you would have to try really hard not to produce a better bottom line from the latter.

Using Alexa as a revenue gauge?

You are talking about webmasters. I am talking about the program's finances.

Webmasters may make more money on PPS programs, but do not underestimate what AVS programs do in terms of profitability.

I may respond to this later when I have time, as I think it is a great subject and a great thread. However I am concerned we are talking of two very different ends.

jayeff · 07-22-2005, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WEG Cory

Using Alexa as a revenue gauge?

You are talking about webmasters. I am talking about the program's finances.

Webmasters may make more money on PPS programs, but do not underestimate what AVS programs do in terms of profitability.

My reference to Alexa - check the sentence - was specifically about traffic and I also took care to avoid any reference to PPS programs, or rather the kind of sites most of us think of as "regular" pay sites. As it is, threads like this tend to fall apart because people with an existing AVS base talk of how well they are doing/have done, but that is highly misleading for someone thinking of starting from scratch. I figured it would be even worse if we started trying to make comparisons with promoting pay sites...

And yes, I took the webmasters' point of view because it seemed more relevant to the thread, but believe me I don't underestimate the profitability for the program operators. At the same time, I don't think the sector has realized a fraction of what it could have done with more ambitious participants.

Sarah_Jayne · 07-22-2005, 11:21 PM

you know what? It is just like the rest of the industry. You have to research, find your niche and own it. Trust me, that works for AVS too but in all honesty it is better for me if some of you think there isn't any money in it. So, kindly continue doubting.

Sarah_Jayne · 07-22-2005, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kre8t0r

Well my 1500+ CyberAge AVS sites are now changed out to freesites. Since the visa change my payouts dropped by 90% minimum..... I would love to know how they are making so much there when it's hard to find a webmaster (seasoned veterans included) that can actually go through your new format and find my site and not one of your upsell programs..

That ended up being MONTHS of changing out sites and I really wish I wasn't reminded of that nightmare. Sorry Dave I have nothing but respect for you but that's the way it worked out for me.

My Cyberage income went up about 30 percent after the visa changes we had to do. Yes, it was a pain going through and changing my scripts and the wording on all my pages had to be modified but once it was done it all worked out. I play for platinum site upgrades and rebills so I can't say how it does for upsell to outside sponsors but this method works for me.

Semi-Retired-Dave · 07-23-2005, 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WEG Cory

Dave,

The problem is that most of the people on this board, or any board for the matter, have little idea of the type of revenue the AVS makes today. I can think of two AVS programs that bring in more revenue than most every major program does.

It wasn't that long ago that a post came up asking if AVS programs made more than a TGP site. I got shredded when I posted there was no comparison, favoring the AVS program.

An AVS and a TGP are not even closely similar dynamically. AVS programs convert surfers at a higher level and simply put, they offer higher-quality content (specifically Cyberage). The actually process transactions, lots of them I might add.

I could go on, but I would not be very popular for doing so. I also would not have posted in this thread had I not seen you reply to it.

Very well said, I'm not even going to add to this.
Thanks Cory.

Semi-Retired-Dave · 07-23-2005, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sarah_webinc

you know what? It is just like the rest of the industry. You have to research, find your niche and own it. Trust me, that works for AVS too but in all honesty it is better for me if some of you think there isn't any money in it. So, kindly continue doubting.

This is very true, I know webmasters that have stuck to the same nitch since we started. They know what converts, they sell AEN, then they upsell to their paysites. It works.

aeon · 07-23-2005, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayeff

As it is, threads like this tend to fall apart because people with an existing AVS base talk of how well they are doing/have done, but that is highly misleading for someone thinking of starting from scratch.

No it isn't misleading for a beginner. They are successful for a reason. There is no other model that allows webmasters to basically control a site and also match traffic to the appropriate pricing structure to see the best profit per click.

Add to that, by creating your own sites you can effectively put the horse and carriage in proper alignment e.g. find the traffic and build a site to cater to it as well as offering a pricing structure that is appropriate for that traffic (free, paid join, recurring). People that understand the AVS/AEN model treat it as simply a processing option devoid of visa fees and approval/chargebacks/refunds/customer service, etc., - nothing else.

For the individual starting from scratch, there is no other system that teaches them how to both read and monetize traffic as effectively. With individuals looking to build paysites, it's the best "training school" there is with both limited risk and investment. In the case of people looking to understand traffic, it's the best tool available to learn how to gauge the value per click of different traffic sources. Most program reps will never agree with this simply on the fact that they would rather an affiliate spend their time promoting their program - they can't. Their livelihood is dependant on getting as many tards as they can with free drinks/contests/ass shots to push their program specifically and to reinforce their general business model as a whole.

But I still think most of these twits should go build galleries for programs that pay them the most for their sigs or who seem "cool/nice" on message boards. They don't have the drive or ability make a site successful beyond scoring a couple sales a day by luck. They'd rather look at free content and grovel over contests here and elsewhere than spend the time required working to make a site(s) successful.

Cory W · 07-23-2005, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aeon

No it isn't misleading for a beginner. They are successful for a reason. There is no other model that allows webmasters to basically control a site and also match traffic to the appropriate pricing structure to see the best profit per click.

Add to that, by creating your own sites you can effectively put the horse and carriage in proper alignment e.g. find the traffic and build a site to cater to it as well as offering a pricing structure that is appropriate for that traffic (free, paid join, recurring). People that understand the AVS/AEN model treat it as simply a processing option devoid of visa fees and approval/chargebacks/refunds/customer service, etc., - nothing else.

For the individual starting from scratch, there is no other system that teaches them how to both read and monetize traffic as effectively. With individuals looking to build paysites, it's the best "training school" there is with both limited risk and investment. In the case of people looking to understand traffic, it's the best tool available to learn how to gauge the value per click of different traffic sources. Most program reps will never agree with this simply on the fact that they would rather an affiliate spend their time promoting their program - they can't. Their livelihood is dependant on getting as many tards as they can with free drinks/contests/ass shots to push their program specifically and to reinforce their general business model as a whole.

But I still think most of these twits should go build galleries for programs that pay them the most for their sigs or who seem "cool/nice" on message boards. They don't have the drive or ability make a site successful beyond scoring a couple sales a day by luck. They'd rather look at free content and grovel over contests here and elsewhere than spend the time required working to make a site(s) successful.

Funny thing is, how many programs would be non-existent today if it was not for this "sub-par" AVS model?

I can name a few.

Brujah · 07-23-2005, 08:57 AM

Wow, some touchy AVS people in this thread.

aeon · 07-23-2005, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WEG Cory

Funny thing is, how many programs would be non-existent today if it was not for this "sub-par" AVS model?

I can name a few.

More than a few people would be paying their rent working at the local gloryhole.

Nubiles · 07-23-2005, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WEG Cory

Dave,

The problem is that most of the people on this board, or any board for the matter, have little idea of the type of revenue the AVS makes today. I can think of two AVS programs that bring in more revenue than most every major program does.

I would imagine this is due the large amount of rebills still recurring from the years and years when sales were 1000+ to 10,000+ a day.

As for AVS/AEN making a comeback due to new govt regulations, there are other ways than using an AVS and Im not even sure that using an AVS still verifies age. Visa did make them lose all text that says they verify age.

AVS was a good system years ago, I made a shitload of money off it, but now many of the benefit are gone:

-avs provides little traffic but you still have to pay for the bandwidth costs of other avs members visiting your site. Not only that but most AVS still use an outdated form of password protection meaning that you have to constantly watch your sites for being exposed to passwords that leak out.

-the concerns of putting all your eggs in one basket, you may control the avs site but we have seen quite a few avs program change their minds about how they run their program and many people lost out because of this

-most avs/aen program dont have anywhere near the tools that revshare/pps programs have. Take my program for example, new content shot each week exclusively. You have your own content for avs and lets not forget about how 2257 will end up.

-new webmasters are going to be better off by learning how to generate their own traffic through se,tgps, blogs, linklists, buying spots, submitting and promoting multiple programs than by working with avs.

baddog · 07-23-2005, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drunkspringbreakgirls

As for AVS/AEN making a comeback due to new govt regulations, there are other ways than using an AVS and Im not even sure that using an AVS still verifies age. Visa did make them lose all text that says they verify age.

While VISA may not like it, there have been recent court decisions that stated appropriate efforts were made to keep minors out by requiring the use of a credit card to get in

Quote:

-avs provides little traffic but you still have to pay for the bandwidth costs of other avs members visiting your site.

Excuse me. Who pays your b/w costs with TGP? At least the AVS traffic has been pre-qualified as having a cc and a willingness to use it to purchase online porn. AVS traffic is better than SE traffic as far as that is concerned. Unless you have no upsells on your site, you should welcome it with open arms.

Quote:

-most avs/aen program dont have anywhere near the tools that revshare/pps programs have. Take my program for example, new content shot each week exclusively. You have your own content for avs and lets not forget about how 2257 will end up.

Hmmm, your program has the same amount of content that my AVS with 7,000 sites has, or that Cyberage with his tons more has? This I have to see. And what does 2257 have to do with AVS?

Quote:

-new webmasters are going to be better off by learning how to generate their own traffic through se,tgps, blogs, linklists, buying spots, submitting and promoting multiple programs than by working with avs.

Actually, if you had a clue, you would . . . .never mind . . . it is apparent you don't

Nubiles · 07-23-2005, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog

While VISA may not like it, there have been recent court decisions that stated appropriate efforts were made to keep minors out by requiring the use of a credit card to get in

Excuse me. Who pays your b/w costs with TGP? At least the AVS traffic has been pre-qualified as having a cc and a willingness to use it to purchase online porn. AVS traffic is better than SE traffic as far as that is concerned. Unless you have no upsells on your site, you should welcome it with open arms.

AVS traffic may be better but it doesnt make up for the fact that when it all comes down to sales, more sales will be generated off se,tgp, blogs than off avs traffic upsells.

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog

Hmmm, your program has the same amount of content that my AVS with 7,000 sites has, or that Cyberage with his tons more has? This I have to see. And what does 2257 have to do with AVS?

The idea of avs/aen making a comeback meaning more webmasters using avs/aen. Compare the tools that pps/revshare programs offer versus avs/aen. I was talking about promotional tools like content, not that amount of content the site has for members.

What does 2257 have to do with AVS? Many webmasters who build avs/aen sites buy their own content which could mean keeping 2257 records but you dont need the records to promote paysites who offer non explicit promotion contnet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog

Actually, if you had a clue, you would . . . .never mind . . . it is apparent you don't

Insulting me doesnt change the facts. I have nothing against avs, I have newbies hitting me up every day asking how to get started. I have a lot of tools and many of them see sales quickly. I have my way, you have yours, neither is the wrong way. Sexpicturespass looks like a cool avs, especially with the pay per signup.

aeon · 07-23-2005, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drunkspringbreakgirls

I have newbies hitting me up every day asking how to get started. I have a lot of tools and many of them see sales quickly.

They would make more money with their own AVS/AEN site. Plus they'd learn about traffic management in the process. Retention rates for AVS/AEN sites have always crippled paysite retention.

A 50/50 revshare paysite is the absolute fucking worst place for anyone, newbie or guru, to send their traffic.

baddog · 07-23-2005, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drunkspringbreakgirls

AVS traffic may be better but it doesnt make up for the fact that when it all comes down to sales, more sales will be generated off se,tgp, blogs than off avs traffic upsells.

I would be willing to bet that based on percentages alone, AVS has a much better ROI. The only reason TGP will get more sales is due to the pure numbers. However, if you have 100k AVS hits, and 100k TGP hits, there is no question AVS is going to have better results. You are the one complaining about bandwidth usage.

Quote:

The idea of avs/aen making a comeback meaning more webmasters using avs/aen. Compare the tools that pps/revshare programs offer versus avs/aen. I was talking about promotional tools like content, not that amount of content the site has for members.

ummm, you are thinking that the webmaster should be promoting the AVS/AEN. That is so 1999. Promote your site, not the AVS, and you will have much better results.

Quote:

What does 2257 have to do with AVS? Many webmasters who build avs/aen sites buy their own content which could mean keeping 2257 records but you dont need the records to promote paysites who offer non explicit promotion contnet.

You can use sponsor content for AVS as well, and you can use your own content for TGP.

Quote:

I have newbies hitting me up every day asking how to get started. I have a lot of tools and many of them see sales quickly. I have my way, you have yours, neither is the wrong way. Sexpicturespass looks like a cool avs, especially with the pay per signup.

I think you will find that newbies will have more success trying to get a TGP surfer (typically someone looking for free porn) to shell out $5 for a LIFETIME membership, than $30 a month. Then you have qualified your traffic (and been paid in the process) and you upsell your paysite in the AVS. Better % and more $$ in the newbies pocket. IMHO.

monaro · 07-24-2005, 02:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RRRED

I hope when you do some experimenting you'll share with us what you find

G'day RRRED,

Picked out a AVS Sponsor, worked late last night on this one, bikebooty.com
Submitted a few minutes ago.

At present I can share with you the fact that I have really enjoyed putting it together. I shall apply myself to improve the next one I am about to setup.
Right now, I am so happy I read your post the other day!

I shall return again soon.

Have a great day..

Ami I · 07-24-2005, 10:16 AM

adult check gold used to make me very sweet money till 2 years ago and i enjoyed oneverefy and sexkey and cyberage as well
but today they are not going to come back and why should they?
with all the exclusive content around no point to sign for an avs program...

Sarah_Jayne · 07-24-2005, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ami I

adult check gold used to make me very sweet money till 2 years ago and i enjoyed oneverefy and sexkey and cyberage as well
but today they are not going to come back and why should they?
with all the exclusive content around no point to sign for an avs program...

You have to love it when people ignore the people in this thread that actually do make money from AVS.

Fabien · 11-01-2005, 09:17 AM

Back from the dead

RRRED · 11-01-2005, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fabien

Back from the dead

Why does your email address have the word, rape in it?

07-22-2005, 07:07 PM	#51
David! By the wrath of Agamemnon Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Miami Posts: 6,501	Woj made me do it __________________ .

07-23-2005, 08:57 AM	#63
Brujah Beer Money Baron Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: brujah / gmail Posts: 22,157	Wow, some touchy AVS people in this thread. __________________ Free Premium Domain Lists and Tools at Clickmojo.com For Sale: Obscenity.com

07-24-2005, 10:16 AM	#71
Ami I Registered User Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 72	adult check gold used to make me very sweet money till 2 years ago and i enjoyed oneverefy and sexkey and cyberage as well but today they are not going to come back and why should they? with all the exclusive content around no point to sign for an avs program... __________________ icq 124062427

07-22-2005, 11:21 PM	#57
Sarah_Jayne Now with more Jayne Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 40,077	you know what? It is just like the rest of the industry. You have to research, find your niche and own it. Trust me, that works for AVS too but in all honesty it is better for me if some of you think there isn't any money in it. So, kindly continue doubting.

11-01-2005, 09:17 AM	#73
Fabien Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 4,787	Back from the dead