Except from trying to kill the industry, the new regulations about 'secondary producers' are designed for a preventive effect too; the affiliates now have to verify that the models they promote, really ARE legal. I don't know, but if you look at the past, beeing affiliate and use promo content, involved trusting the paysite owner that the content was legal. Its quite obvious that this way of trust is not good enough for the lawmakers anymore. So would encrypting the data be a valid method then? Time will show.

I'm not saying it is wrong that way, but that could also be very problematic in certain situations:
- If you have the feds visiting you - 100 sponsors you have to call - key for EACH model - both male and female models .... that would cost a lot of time and money, and its risky.
- Probably ND will stay in biz, but what about smaller programs? Will they provide all keys if they stop or be instant available 4 years later? ; if you post a gallery in 2006, the program stops in 2008... according to the law, the feds can visit you, lets say in 2009 and request ID verification for something you posted 3 years ago.

Privacy vs trust is a dilemma. :upsidedow

yep.. we are thinking the same way here
same goes for the topbucks solution btw
extremepaychecks has done one of the most secure one for its webmasters yet. Not having 100% correct, accessable and 100% fully working docs in your office is way to unsecure to my mind

I disagree.

Read page 29621 of the Federal Registry, paragraph 4.

"At the conclusion of an inspection, the investigator may informally advise the producer of any apparent violations disclosed by the inspection. The producer may bring to the attention of the investigator any pertinent information regarding the records inspected or any other relevant matter".

The application of the law is not going to be that the feds walk in the door find the first violation and handcuff you. No, what will happen is a painstaking toss of your records and this will take time. In our case, we have over 20,000 ids and I seriously doubt an investigator can properly review our records in one day or maybe even one week. The process gives you plenty of time to contact the program for the hash key to decrypt.

The Feds have provisions in the law that allow for producers to have ample opportunity to show their compliance. Having a corrupted zip file that can be cured with a non corrupted one will never result in prison sentences. Calling for the hash key as well will be perfectly fine with the investigators, it only takes minutes and they will already be busy looking over your other files.

good one. Maybe too late for me, I took down most of my galleries.

One more thing. We also came to the conclusion that encypted or password protected ids are ok. Please show me where in the regulations this is forbidden. In our eyes this is no different than if we delivered paper copies of 20,000 ids to an affiliate and he then locked the docs in a safe. The feds arrive and an employee calls "Hey boss i need the combination to the safe to get our docs out".

Protecting the ids with encryption or a safe is something I would do as an affiliate regardless of how the ids were delivered to me. Having them wide open and available with no protection at all smacks of negligence and a lack of reasonable care and affiliates need to be also concerned about model litigation over the handling of their confidential information.

good points you bring up, i am too sexy for jail

Exactly.

Bump for you

or... files that you can't really use.

The data must be cross referenced and indexed. Perhaps, we can do this while the feds wait in another room sipping some coffee?

This idea is a workaround to the regulations. Albeit a 'legal' one. Regulators missed to specify how data must be kept or they would have mentioned 'not encrypted'. I do respect ND as much as anyone else here but any personal decision regarding 2257 must be carefully thought out under legal guidance.

Good analogy and seems to make legal sense to me.
WG

50........

thank you!

i was surprised at the positive responses on this thread. what if there are problems on the phone lines, or law enforcement doesn't want you to make a call? what if for some reason the phone company has knocked your long distance off? that's happened to us twice for no reason. whoops! off to jail!

this whole law makes no sense, so I wouldnt expect it from the FEDs. In other words, if they come to your door(US webmasters), they will deal with you like shit, because you do porn, and I doubt they let you get the IDs from somewhere...you need to have them in the office.

why would that "asshole" have to be a valid law enforcement agent

1. i hand the records to police officer joe
2. tell him the encryption key to unlock it can be requested from nasty dollars
3. he gets and official request in to get access to the records.

*lol*

it's clear some of us here have never dealt with law enforcement outside of getting a traffic ticket.

No I disagree, there will be no whoops off to jail if your landline phone, your cell phone, your friends cell phone and your internet connection were to all simultaneously fail. Will this communication failure last all day, every day? Because the way the law is written there are guidelines that specify the producer is able to review the violations of the law found by the inspector and be provided with an opportunity to cure such defects.

I have no idea where people keep getting the idea that the feds will arrive prepared to handcuff business people and sentence them to prison without due process. We may be in the adult industry, but we are LEGAL and we pay taxes just like the guys who sell wholesale flowers in the building next to us. If you think that the Feds will come in like storm troopers and stomp all over citizen's due process rights you are mistaken. They do that and we WILL sue them as the law specifically grants us the ability to review the charges against us and provides for the ability to cure violations.

Someone else mentioned cross referenced docs, and yes that is true that going forward from this Thursday on you will be required to have a road map for the feds of what you are publishing, BUT the material that is delivered this week for all of the site's current contents only needs to have names and ids.

The issue here is that the ids ARE in the office, they are just under security. I would agree that if the system were setup to have the affiliates begin downloading the ids in the event of an inspection, then the system does not comply as the ids are not available at the location of the secondary producer.

What if the police plant cocaine at your office and claim you punched them just so they can arrest you? Why won't Nasty Dollars do something in case that happens too? :1orglaugh

This sounds like an excellent Idea. I will definitely chack it out.

This is a great idea and those of you who think your going to be tossed to the floor, cuffed and hauled off to prison (over phones down or bad files) need to come back to reality.

The same argument could be said about other problems that could happen. WHAT IF on that day your computer crashes and you can't pull your records as fast as you would like. Or your out to lunch when they come. Your key to the file breaks off. A power outage even... are you going to jail? Of course not.

Though they are authority, they are not going to raid you SWAT style searching for the first mix up to toss your ass in the big house.

amen brother Lens my thinking exactly.also how do you do all the cross referencing if you dont get to see them until they are in your face. Also if you are using thses pics for marketing your urls will be different then theirs.

I was talking about privacy and that some affiliate could pretend that he was under inspection.

Anyway... what you say is technically the same as just linking/refering to the primary producer.
I have no idea about the legal issues about this, but what I do know is this:
- The police officers come into your office/home and ask you if that the model you have on your site is legal. You answer: "Yes I have the ID, but it is encrypted and I need to call for a key". The officer say; "You don't know if she is legal???"
The officers are inspectors, not investigators....

good posts scoreman

interesting concept

Imagine if every sponsor required that. Do you really think the FBI wants to sit around for HOURS while you call up every sponsor and they in turn verify the FBI is actually there?

Pretty much takes the surprise element out of the records check. IMO it's not going to fly.

You mean the door of my office wont explode and as the smoke clears the Darth Vader Theme music rises. lol I think people can be arrested , they come in with local cops find roaches in the ashtray. Small children in the house etc etc .People think they are Tony Montana and get mouthy, they come to my office I plan to treat them like honored guests, that attitude got me out of more tickets and legal bullshit then you could imagine. I managed a jack shack , a undercover cop busted a girl for offering a hand job for $200 bucks. When they came in there were 5 of them, I acted like it was a social call. I introduced myself and shook all their hands, was very respectful. When the rookie of the bunch asked if I was getting arrested for pandering being the manager. They said leave him alone , how could of he know . Even though I was sitting in front of a bank of security monitors. Politness and respect goes further then you think.

i don't think local authorities can be a part of any of this. this is strictly a federal thing. but i'm pessimistic as well about how the 'inspections' will go.

sounds good. Hope it works good

scoreman - we get that idea from people like mike jones. you probably read about him. the police came and talked to him very nicely, and he invited them to come back anytime they had questions.

instead they showed up with a pediatrician (hoping she would claim the i.d.s were of younger people than the dates said, but she didn't) and took every computer and record he had. the harrassed his daughter, trying to make her say her parents sexually molested her. they took his livelihood.

when EVERY i.d. was thoroughly checked, and the models were indeed over 18, they continued with the cp charges anyway. in fact, when his case was resolved after FIVE YEARS, the state is considering appealing.

five years, and the best trial lawyers in our business. and he was lucky. after spending hundreds of thousands of dollars, destroying his kids teen years, taking away his business, and putting god knows what pressure on his marriage, at least he's not doing jail time for something he didn't do.

some of the older porn companies can tell you stories about raids and jail. porn is not considered legal, even if it is. and frankly, if the new regs are not stopped, most of us won't actually be legal unless we can hand over all those i.d.s and show they are cross referenced according to law.

There is something in there they can have local police there also

Good posts David, at least someone is being logical here. But what would I expect from you!

Brent

seems to be a good solution, good job! :)

let me guess your not a visiable minority are you.


I have actually been question by the police when former employee accused me of stealing a hard drive from a machine that was bought with no hard drive at all because the officer decided it wasn't necessary to get any proof of ownership before he came to my house

Sounds like a great idea.

The thing I love about ND, they come on here make one statement, never answer to anyone's claims, stay low key with 35 posts on GFY, shows, etc and still continue to rock down the joins. You don't see too many companies with the amount of content they have ...

Oh yeah, and they are my largest client. :thumbsup

And they dont have even sig :upsidedow



ND rules thought I am not sure if the solution is legal.
Eveything can happend and you wont be able to open those IDs.
Looks like the law made the way you wont handle it anyway...
I would stick with free hosting and FHGs. Than you are free of any charges or chances to be charged!

The big issue I see with this format is that in order for you to be compliant you need to have the records ALREADY IN YOUR DATABASE AND CROSSREFERENCED. For those of us without 20,000 IDs, (or even those with), I don't envision inspectors standing around and waiting while you add however many records to your database before they inspect you. "Hang on, man, I'm ALMOST compliant, just stand around holding your dick while I pound keys for a while..." I don't see this being a feasible scenario, but maybe that's because I've dealt with the feds before and I know their mentality. Don't plan on getting cut any slack.

The feds will bring local law enforcement with them. They almost always do.

"At the conclusion of an inspection, the investigator may informally advise the producer of any apparent violations disclosed by the inspection. The producer may bring to the attention of the investigator any pertinent information regarding the records inspected or any other relevant matter".

For those who didn't grow up in a house with a lawyer:

---"the investigator MAY informally advise...." They don't have to, aren't required to, and will probably not bother to bring anything to your attention. The word "may" essentially means "if they feel like it."

---"The producer may bring to the attention of the investigator any pertinent information regarding the records inspected or any other relevant matter." It says nothing here about having an opportunity to correct anything. You can tell them anything you want, and they have to stand there and listen if you feel like talking, but none of this offers an opportunity to correct. In fact, it's quite reckless to even suggest that this passage has that meaning. Oh, by the way, anything you say to them can be used against you. A simple "I can fix that" on your part is an admission that you were not compliant and in itself can land you in jail.

I know about this, and if this is how they are going to work with 2257 inspections then there is NOTHING we can do anyway. :2 cents:

this is some awesome fucking shit

FUCK BUSH