Well the hun get 4 million visits a day and don't think the DOJ wouldn't love to say they brought down the world biggest porn site.

Keep kidding yourself :1orglaugh

You are talking about a government that has held thousands of "enemy combatants" for 4 years without allowing them a lawyer or ever charging them with any actual crime.

Yes prove it in COURT. Which means you have to be ARRESTED, have you name in the paper and then spend huge amounts of money on lawyers FIRST.

It wouldn't be called the world's biggest porn site. That wouldn't set right with Joe Average. It would be touted as a major porn network that included beastiality.

Oh now he's gonna say he's a limey and none of this applies to him... Its circular :)

AllanUk I saved you some time by saying it for you :):)

Its just gone 2am in the UK. I must go to bed.

So this will be last post for a few hours.

Having looked at the history of porn in the USA, there have been many daft ways to stop porn. The new law is clever that its been done in such a way to make it look as if its to protect children. When in fact its to close down porn in the USA.

Will it stop at this law? Well of course not. If thislaw works, then after a few years they will bring in a bit more, then a bit more.

In the end porn could be shut down, by simply making it harder to do.

This is why I hope this law will fail.

But if it does succeed, I would expect that porn in the USA will be coming to an end, except possibly by a few (very very few) big firms.

A few thoughts after reading all of this , if your over seas I highly doubt there will be a knock on your door . I think they are going to want big headlines because they are doing this all for the christian right. I think they will use 2257 as a excuse to get in the door of people they want to go after for obscenity. Too much time and work to go after people for clerical errors . Also I think the people that use drugs its time to become drug free. You dont want them coming to your house , your in compliance but they find a roach in the ashtray.

That UK guy is just a retarded turd and doesn't know WTF he is talking about. I hope no American webmasters take his advice.

Anyways it'snot even about getting busted for 2257that the average American webmaster shouldbe worried about. Now that YOUR name and YOUR adress has to be listed as the "custodian of records" The DOJ can notify LOCAL DAs in your area that you run a website that may be obscene and thus you get bust for obscenity. And even if that never happens if some Jesus freaks in your town find out about your website ansd thus about you they can sure harrass you and post flyers and signs all over town about how you are the evil pornographer how you want to abuse their children.

I'm sure they would, but that means nothing for 99.99% of the Joe webmasters out there who are following all the laws of the countries in which they reside.

...wtf crazy double post

It's not kitchen heat? :upsidedow

Nothing clever nor new, "protect the children" has been used for years in attempts to draft law.P-a-t-r-i-o-t...A-c-tNope. Porn for profit might be disrupted on a case by case basis.It will only fail if enough bad or backlash happens from it. Who in your daily life not webmaster related have you told about the situation? Debating webmasters is "preaching to the choir".And the kiddies will be sharing their content via P2P :winkwink:

Many "Jesus freaks" are cool as hell (pardon the pun :upsidedow). More people are "activist" for political desires than religious... it's just easy to sweep misguided sheeple with religious dogma into your numbers. :2 cents:

Its amazing how hyprocritical some of the religious people can be. The example that still sticks into my mind is that of a 20 yr old "Christian" who got confrontational with me back in February about the fact that I won't turn down adult-oriented sites for coding/hosting services, and how he would always try to provoke me into the discussions of the evils of pornography.


Yet he had no problem fucking his 16yr old girlfriend every other day and making it known that he was getting some underaged ass (age of consent is 16 here)


"Christians" :1orglaugh :upsidedow

Nothing wrong with Christians, it's hypocrites that's fucked up :upsidedow

There's only 1 Michael Jackson and thousands of adult webmasters... and I think there's a bit of a difference between child molestation and pornagraphy....

By Jesus freaks I mean zealots. And I think it's obvious I wasn't refering to ALL Christians.

Hence the quotes.

Mainstream christians really need to stand up and renouce these zealots, otherwise the appearance that they speak on behalf of all christians will stand.

For argument sake, let's assume that the new 2257 regs withstand all injunctions and are enforced.


Just *WHO* will be enforcing these regs? In other words:

1)Who scans the sites to "choose" the ones they are going to investigate?
2)Who then makes the physical visit to the location to see the documentation?
3)Who then decides if the documents are in order?
4)If it is decided they are not in order, WHO takes the webmaster to court?
5)Who prosecutes the cases..literally WHO will be the prosecutors presenting the government's case?
6)Finally..HOW will this all be paid for?

That will all be handled by the DOJ. Though I suspect they could get the FBI and local law enforcement involved if need be.

The American taxpayer of course. How ironic that you may be funding your own prosecution.

1) DOJ under the direction of some national porn czar.
2) Federal agents
3) Federal agents/US District Attorney
4) US District Attorney
5) US District Attorney
6) Hardworking taxpayers

100..........

I hate you.

:-P (8chars)

Welcome to page 3

It's one thing to have a law/regulations..it's quite another thing to be able to enforce them..or at least enforce them to any large extent. So many laws sit on the books now that are never enforced.

National porn czar? No creature exists..drug czar was a complete bust so there never will be a porn czar.

Federal agents? With the cutbacks in place now and those that still have jobs so overwhelmed, they're going to have the time to actually visit people's homes/places of business to look at tons of paperwork to see if it's in order?

U.S. District Attorneys? Do you know how many of them there are? Compare that to the number of porn sites there are in the U.S. They'd laugh you out of the office if you asked them about putting investigating porn sites paperwork as their top 1 or even top 10 priority.

Bush is in love with TAX CUTS! Hence, why there isn't enough money now to pay for EXISTING programs. Do you think Congress is going to raise taxes just to be able to hire beaurocrats to look at paper work? No way! We can't even fund enough airport security agents to make sure baggage is completely checked let alone hire "porn checkers".

While I agree people should "get their houses in order" due to this new set of regs, I also think there will be far and few between that actually end up in court.

Hi Allan

OK.. Some bits!

(a) Webmasters who are US citizens are the main folks with problems mainly because, even if they move/live outside the US, - the US makes claims on em in several areas. (This is not the norm with 99% of countries). Example... they commit an offense in another jurisdiction (albeit that offense may not actually be an offense in the foreign jurisdiction, but one that is an offense within the US) - they will and do hunt em down. The simplified example of that is re tax issues in the US - irrespective of where a US citizen lives in the world, as long as they remain to hold citizenship - they pay taxes to the US and if not, there can be problems.

(b) Webmasters who have nada hosting and neither live or have US citizenship - this law simply does not apply. Wherever they do live on the planet is where they gotta comply with the laws and obviously are not subject to the laws of any other country. In that respect 2257 is not enforceable.

Having said that, in the instance of 2257, - the US are perfectly within their rights to block foreign servers. The flip side of that is... widening.... and other issues outside the adult biz come into play if they did, in fact, start blocking servers. Not that this is probable, but we could get into a tit for tat stupid retaliation scenario with other countries.

(c) You are correct re privacy acts in other countries regarding model data disclosure. The US DOJ response to this is along the lines of ... "if a country hides behind their data protection laws we will have to consider blocking servers..." This kinda statement is just sheer arrogance sprewing from the DOJ if they think any country really cares, especially when they expect other nations to drop their privacy laws because they say so. It will be VERY doubtful that any nation would do this - hence unenforceable.

(d) Since the US DOJ never saw fit to instigate one action under USC 2257 since it was introduced in the 90's - it's hard to give credence to their claims of protecting children. Who knows, it remains to be seen whether this time around they are going to do inspections in the US - but probably will since Gonzales has a brief to report to the legislature on the numbers of inspections and the outcome of them.

Bottom line, yea, it will be enforceable if they care to do this - and it looks that way at the moment.

Regarding action outside the US - na - the law simply does not apply. BUT!:-) If there was a genuine case of child abuse/pedo stuff and where that is an offense in another country (normal), and, if the offender committed these crimes at some time within US territory, - most countries have extradiction agreements in place and that person would probably be extradicted to the US for trial. The prospect of extradiction for offenses (they are predefined offenses and 2257 ain't one of em) in connection with lack of record-keeping under 2257 just don't exist - so, in that instance 2257 is unenforceable.

The main concern would be for webmasters within the US - the DOJ is likely to take a sampling, - the track record is grab a few "small fry" and get easy convictions to set precedents, - then head for "bigger fish".

Well just ignore all of those trying to enact child exploitation/obscenity laws. Child porn and internet porn are interchangable terms amongst the zealots and obscenity means the same thing. :(

And!!! Yes.. it does have nada to do with CP - that is the last thing on their minds, despite the fact that the purpose of the act was to stop CP and related child offenses.

The US DOJ have an extemely poor track record when it came to protecting children - in fact, they acted in favor of the pedo on several occasions, despite the volume of evidence given to them was overwhelming. Only when threatened with embarassment on the 11th hour did they finally act.

bump 4 others to read.