non-US affiliate gallery makers and 2257 statement - GoFuckYourself.com

Dirty Dane · 05-27-2005, 11:29 AM

Its very clear that if you operate on US market (webhost etc.) you need to comply. But its also clear that you don't need to keep personal records, since the US authorities can not, and will not, do inspections. Also there are nowhere it says you need to send records, if requested, in the new 2257.

So what apply to you is the statement - where and what.
Except you need the statement on your own domain, I can't really see much difference from the old 'traditional' 2257 linking to the primary producers/custodians website.

What needed in the 2257 statement is:

- An uniqe identifying ID of the gallery (if the gallery is your gallery number 100 you call it simply 100)
- The date you publish the gallery
- The name and street address of the primary producer (the provided one) at the date you upload it (you are still secondary producer, but it says nowhere that you need an adress in US to operate on US market)
- An additional statement that underline that you are not US citizen or live in US. That could be your adress outside USA, or a text that state it (if they want to, they can do whois lookup. Further they can not force you against local data protection laws)

The statement can be linked at the location of the copyright information, to a secondary window, and thank god for php include.

I mean the above comply 2257, for non-US affiliate gallery makers.
I also mean it would be the same for pictures/banners etc.

Any input on this? It's the best we can do, unless jumping on the FHG wagon is the only option.

Dirty Dane · 05-27-2005, 11:51 AM

2257 Statement:

"I'm not american - just a Dirty Dane - GFY"

polish_aristocrat · 05-27-2005, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirty Dane

2257 Statement:

"I'm not american - just a Dirty Dane - GFY"

polish_aristocrat · 05-27-2005, 12:32 PM

actually i am a good guy so here's a bump, since you put so much thought into this post

Lifer · 05-27-2005, 12:36 PM

Hey DD...

I personally ICQ'd and emailed a number of sponsors and it is really surprising just how far in the dark they are.

You would think that sponsors would have a plan.

Since my ban

I have made a couple membership sites. They do pretty well considering that I don't know how to drive traffic worth a damn.

I have always had softcore in the tour... and decided that hc was better and made a total new design for Heartbreak Academy.

I have some hosted galleries for 18Heartbreakers, but to be honest, most affiliates aren't using them. They are converting off the tours.

I tried your chat earlier but you weren't on. I think that you are worried for nothing. One reason is that you are Danish, and you are not selling to the US market. You are simply passing a cookie to the surfer and sending him to the site to join. CCBill is paying you from a sponsor's account for passing traffic, not showing pictures.

Secondly, you don't have much wide open spread shots that would get you in touble to start with. Maybe with the exception of th hardcore forum... (yeah, I still lurk when you aren't looking

)

Plus... You are in Denmark man!! They are not interested in you.

The only reason I am complying is that I am running my credit card processing through CCBill which is American, and I am American.

Take care... and lift that ban. I miss our chats

Dirty Dane · 05-27-2005, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lifer

I think that you are worried for nothing. One reason is that you are Danish, and you are not selling to the US market. You are simply passing a cookie to the surfer and sending him to the site to join. CCBill is paying you from a sponsor's account for passing traffic, not showing pictures.

You got it so so wrong. First of all, 80% of my galleries are sexual explicit. And it does not have to be what you define as HC (man vs woman) to be sexual explicit. Secondly, its not about selling to the US market, but operate on US market. I have servers in USA and that means I have to comply with their laws, as far I can.
"At least I did not go to jail" is not in my vocabulary book. Its not a question of jail or not, but to be allowed to operate on certain markets and make money! If the billing processors, webhosts, sponsors etc. tell you to follow their laws, then there are now ways around it. And that goes for all non-US affiliates.

Dirty Dane · 05-27-2005, 12:59 PM

btw - you are breaking the GFY rules with your signature

Judas_Hansen · 05-27-2005, 01:05 PM

min advokat har sagt jeg ikke skal bruge tid og penge på det, så længe min server ikke står i usa. Jeg ved ikke om dette info kan bruges i dit tilfælde, men jeg syntes det va rpå sin plads at give det videre til andre der står i samme situation som os

GoodStuff · 05-27-2005, 01:11 PM

I would also find it hard to believe that any US run TGP/MGPs would post non-compliant galleries.

breaker · 05-27-2005, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Judas_Hansen

min advokat har sagt jeg ikke skal bruge tid og penge på det, så længe min server ikke står i usa. Jeg ved ikke om dette info kan bruges i dit tilfælde, men jeg syntes det va rpå sin plads at give det videre til andre der står i samme situation som os

What kinda pages to you run and where do you host today?

So your lawyer tells you that they can't reach above the danish law at all?

Hinc · 05-27-2005, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Judas_Hansen

min advokat har sagt jeg ikke skal bruge tid og penge på det, så længe min server ikke står i usa. Jeg ved ikke om dette info kan bruges i dit tilfælde, men jeg syntes det va rpå sin plads at give det videre til andre der står i samme situation som os

Kender du så nogle gode dedikerede servere her i omegnen (eller i det mindste udenfor US) ?

...and yeah...the danes are everywhere

kernelpanic · 05-27-2005, 02:44 PM

ack, need a transator

Jeppe · 05-27-2005, 02:54 PM

Dirty Dane -> Har du et icq# eller en mail jeg kan kontakte dig på? Jeg har haft nøjagtig de samme tanker ang. gallerier med sponsor content, og vil gerne drøfte det med dig.
Det bliver dog først i næste uge - holder weekend nu

Judas -> Ifølge vores advokat, spiller det ingen rolle om serveren står i USA, Danmark eller et helt tredje sted. Du skal stadig efterleve kravene. Dog kan du ikke udleveres til USA, men man bør nok lade være med at rejse derover hvis man vil være sikker på at kunne rejse hjem igen i hvert fald

Vi er dog ikke endeligt færdige med at drøfte det, men det var deres umiddelbare fortolkning.

Jeppe · 05-27-2005, 03:02 PM

I have a hard time imagining that US feds would actually be able to travel to Denmark and require to see the documents anyway - in Denmark you need a warrant to do such a thing, and since this is only an American law I doubt they would get one. But I am not exactly an expert on that, and the whole thing seems to be very far from logic anyways.

Nevertheless we are working out how we can be fully compliant even though we might be safe as long as we stay in Denmark.

Dirty Dane · 05-27-2005, 03:15 PM

The lawyers knows the international and/or local laws, fine. But they don't know the business better than you. At least they should not.

Let me repeat to all:
This is NOT about going to jail or not, but to protect your own business.
No matter you are hosted in USA or Malaysia, you are still operating on US market if you use an american billing processor. Lets take ccbill's TOS as an example:

3. Violation of CCBill Policy
J. Reproduction or transmission of any material in violation of any local, state, U.S., or international law or regulation is prohibited.

See my point?

Not sure how the processors will handle this. No one can tell, not even your lawyers.

Judas_Hansen · 05-27-2005, 03:21 PM

jeg har mine server stående hos Acomma (i glostrup)
her er et spamlink ;-) http://www.partner-ads.com/dk/klikba...&bannerid=1960

De har også dedikerede servere, og det var der jeg startede. Ellers kan i godt lease en server igennem mig - det er meget billigere, og så er det jeres egen server bagefter. Det kræver dog i har et solidt firma, for ellers bliver i ikke godkendt gennem min keditvalidator (det gamle Teliafinans)

Mine site er mest webcamrelaterede med modeller fra europe (mest polen) men jeg viser dem ikke frem - det burde alle efterhånden vide. USA står for ca 30% af mine kunde. Ud over det så har jeg et par mindre busty single girls sider.. mest med europæisk content... fik dog en batch af nogle RIGTIG lede grimme nogle fra AaronM... damm de var grimme, men bruger dem på de gratis sites der også ligger og føder mine sites med trafik.

for at vende tilbage til hvad advokaten sagde, så kan de godt lave en masse skriv frem og tilbage, men det danske politi vil aldrig gøre noget, for du kan ikke kontrollere hvor brugere kommer fra og du overtræder ikke dansk lov ved ikke at kunne dokumenter dit site i hoved og røv..... Sørger dog for at alle mine modeller er mindst 21, da jeg ikke vil have yngre piger ind i porno... de er ikke mentalt parat og jeg har ikke samvittighed til andet

Judas_Hansen · 05-27-2005, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirty Dane

3. Violation of CCBill Policy
J. Reproduction or transmission of any material in violation of any local, state, U.S., or international law or regulation is prohibited. [/b]

See my point?

Not sure how the processors will handle this. No one can tell, not even your lawyers.

i se your point -- clearly

you are not breaking US law by not complying with US laws outside US. US law is only applicable in the US.

Lits like animalsex.. Its illigal in the US, but thay cant do anything about it outside the US.

I dont use CCbill for my own sites, but i would recomend getting it in writing from them. I use Freeways payment portal, and that sawes me from a lot of trouble

Dirty Dane · 05-27-2005, 03:35 PM

Yes exactly. You might not break US laws and avoid jail, but you might break some sponsors, processors or even registrars terms, and that leave you nowhere.
So then I'm back to the question again if the above will comply to avoid this.

Terry · 05-27-2005, 03:48 PM

Bump

I would really love to see an answer to this one.

Judas_Hansen · 05-27-2005, 03:48 PM

I quote myself "getting it in writing from them."

They have no legal rights, but be upfront about it.. if its cleard with them, you dont have to spend hours with 2257 issues

Jeppe · 05-27-2005, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirty Dane

The lawyers knows the international and/or local laws, fine. But they don't know the business better than you. At least they should not.

Let me repeat to all:
This is NOT about going to jail or not, but to protect your own business.
No matter you are hosted in USA or Malaysia, you are still operating on US market if you use an american billing processor. Lets take ccbill's TOS as an example:

3. Violation of CCBill Policy
J. Reproduction or transmission of any material in violation of any local, state, U.S., or international law or regulation is prohibited.

See my point?

Not sure how the processors will handle this. No one can tell, not even your lawyers.

Indeed! Sorry I didn't express it more clearly, but that is what I meant. It is a wise business decision to comply no matter what. You can risk many other things than legal action.

What we need to find out now is how a Danish guy with a company registered in Denmark can comply with the regulations.

05-27-2005, 11:29 AM	#1
Dirty Dane Sick Fuck Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: www Posts: 9,491	non-US affiliate gallery makers and 2257 statement Its very clear that if you operate on US market (webhost etc.) you need to comply. But its also clear that you don't need to keep personal records, since the US authorities can not, and will not, do inspections. Also there are nowhere it says you need to send records, if requested, in the new 2257. So what apply to you is the statement - where and what. Except you need the statement on your own domain, I can't really see much difference from the old 'traditional' 2257 linking to the primary producers/custodians website. What needed in the 2257 statement is: - An uniqe identifying ID of the gallery (if the gallery is your gallery number 100 you call it simply 100) - The date you publish the gallery - The name and street address of the primary producer (the provided one) at the date you upload it (you are still secondary producer, but it says nowhere that you need an adress in US to operate on US market) - An additional statement that underline that you are not US citizen or live in US. That could be your adress outside USA, or a text that state it (if they want to, they can do whois lookup. Further they can not force you against local data protection laws) The statement can be linked at the location of the copyright information, to a secondary window, and thank god for php include. I mean the above comply 2257, for non-US affiliate gallery makers. I also mean it would be the same for pictures/banners etc. Any input on this? It's the best we can do, unless jumping on the FHG wagon is the only option.

05-27-2005, 12:32 PM	#4
polish_aristocrat Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 40,377	actually i am a good guy so here's a bump, since you put so much thought into this post __________________ I don't use ICQ anymore.

05-27-2005, 12:36 PM	#5
Lifer Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Working Posts: 871	Hey DD... I personally ICQ'd and emailed a number of sponsors and it is really surprising just how far in the dark they are. You would think that sponsors would have a plan. Since my ban I have made a couple membership sites. They do pretty well considering that I don't know how to drive traffic worth a damn. I have always had softcore in the tour... and decided that hc was better and made a total new design for Heartbreak Academy. I have some hosted galleries for 18Heartbreakers, but to be honest, most affiliates aren't using them. They are converting off the tours. I tried your chat earlier but you weren't on. I think that you are worried for nothing. One reason is that you are Danish, and you are not selling to the US market. You are simply passing a cookie to the surfer and sending him to the site to join. CCBill is paying you from a sponsor's account for passing traffic, not showing pictures. Secondly, you don't have much wide open spread shots that would get you in touble to start with. Maybe with the exception of th hardcore forum... (yeah, I still lurk when you aren't looking ) Plus... You are in Denmark man!! They are not interested in you. The only reason I am complying is that I am running my credit card processing through CCBill which is American, and I am American. Take care... and lift that ban. I miss our chats __________________ CCBill Sponsor Programs Get Paid On Time - Everytime!

05-27-2005, 01:05 PM	#8
Judas_Hansen Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Denmark / Hellerup Posts: 520	min advokat har sagt jeg ikke skal bruge tid og penge på det, så længe min server ikke står i usa. Jeg ved ikke om dette info kan bruges i dit tilfælde, men jeg syntes det va rpå sin plads at give det videre til andre der står i samme situation som os __________________ \| EUROPEAN HOSTING = FORGET 2257 \| IcQ 300-894038 \| anti-SPYWARE \|

05-27-2005, 02:44 PM	#12
kernelpanic Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 2,961	ack, need a transator __________________ ZangoCash - Turn Your Traffic Into Ca$h. $.40 Per Install - No Tier

05-27-2005, 11:51 AM	#2
Dirty Dane Sick Fuck Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: www Posts: 9,491	2257 Statement: "I'm not american - just a Dirty Dane - GFY"

05-27-2005, 12:59 PM	#7
Dirty Dane Sick Fuck Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: www Posts: 9,491	btw - you are breaking the GFY rules with your signature

05-27-2005, 01:11 PM	#9
GoodStuff Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 511	I would also find it hard to believe that any US run TGP/MGPs would post non-compliant galleries.

05-27-2005, 02:54 PM	#13
Jeppe Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2002 Location: Denmark Posts: 951	Dirty Dane -> Har du et icq# eller en mail jeg kan kontakte dig på? Jeg har haft nøjagtig de samme tanker ang. gallerier med sponsor content, og vil gerne drøfte det med dig. Det bliver dog først i næste uge - holder weekend nu Judas -> Ifølge vores advokat, spiller det ingen rolle om serveren står i USA, Danmark eller et helt tredje sted. Du skal stadig efterleve kravene. Dog kan du ikke udleveres til USA, men man bør nok lade være med at rejse derover hvis man vil være sikker på at kunne rejse hjem igen i hvert fald Vi er dog ikke endeligt færdige med at drøfte det, men det var deres umiddelbare fortolkning. __________________ AdultReviews.com PornReviews.com Submit your site for review here

05-27-2005, 03:02 PM	#14
Jeppe Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2002 Location: Denmark Posts: 951	I have a hard time imagining that US feds would actually be able to travel to Denmark and require to see the documents anyway - in Denmark you need a warrant to do such a thing, and since this is only an American law I doubt they would get one. But I am not exactly an expert on that, and the whole thing seems to be very far from logic anyways. Nevertheless we are working out how we can be fully compliant even though we might be safe as long as we stay in Denmark. __________________ AdultReviews.com PornReviews.com Submit your site for review here

05-27-2005, 03:15 PM	#15
Dirty Dane Sick Fuck Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: www Posts: 9,491	The lawyers knows the international and/or local laws, fine. But they don't know the business better than you. At least they should not. Let me repeat to all: This is NOT about going to jail or not, but to protect your own business. No matter you are hosted in USA or Malaysia, you are still operating on US market if you use an american billing processor. Lets take ccbill's TOS as an example: 3. Violation of CCBill Policy J. Reproduction or transmission of any material in violation of any local, state, U.S., or international law or regulation is prohibited. See my point? Not sure how the processors will handle this. No one can tell, not even your lawyers.

05-27-2005, 03:21 PM	#16
Judas_Hansen Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Denmark / Hellerup Posts: 520	jeg har mine server stående hos Acomma (i glostrup) her er et spamlink ;-) http://www.partner-ads.com/dk/klikba...&bannerid=1960 De har også dedikerede servere, og det var der jeg startede. Ellers kan i godt lease en server igennem mig - det er meget billigere, og så er det jeres egen server bagefter. Det kræver dog i har et solidt firma, for ellers bliver i ikke godkendt gennem min keditvalidator (det gamle Teliafinans) Mine site er mest webcamrelaterede med modeller fra europe (mest polen) men jeg viser dem ikke frem - det burde alle efterhånden vide. USA står for ca 30% af mine kunde. Ud over det så har jeg et par mindre busty single girls sider.. mest med europæisk content... fik dog en batch af nogle RIGTIG lede grimme nogle fra AaronM... damm de var grimme, men bruger dem på de gratis sites der også ligger og føder mine sites med trafik. for at vende tilbage til hvad advokaten sagde, så kan de godt lave en masse skriv frem og tilbage, men det danske politi vil aldrig gøre noget, for du kan ikke kontrollere hvor brugere kommer fra og du overtræder ikke dansk lov ved ikke at kunne dokumenter dit site i hoved og røv..... Sørger dog for at alle mine modeller er mindst 21, da jeg ikke vil have yngre piger ind i porno... de er ikke mentalt parat og jeg har ikke samvittighed til andet __________________ \| EUROPEAN HOSTING = FORGET 2257 \| IcQ 300-894038 \| anti-SPYWARE \|

05-27-2005, 03:35 PM	#18
Dirty Dane Sick Fuck Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: www Posts: 9,491	Yes exactly. You might not break US laws and avoid jail, but you might break some sponsors, processors or even registrars terms, and that leave you nowhere. So then I'm back to the question again if the above will comply to avoid this.

05-27-2005, 03:48 PM	#19
Terry Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Montreal Posts: 1,604	Bump I would really love to see an answer to this one.