REDSHOE how are you my brother?
you still have me on your icq?

Also for a org thats been around for ten yrs,I dont see their presence in the media at all. Where are the comments in the news papers or letters to the editor of the major newspapers regards 2257? To tell you the truth, that would do more good then meeting with state gov of CA. They should be working on changing public view of us. The media is very one sided, until you work on that ,the rest is really a waste of time. I would also guess a bunch of the work lawyers do for them is pro bono because it gets their name out there and more business.

I doubt you will find a better "collective solution" that costs $300 in the next 30 days. :)

Do you really think that writing to the paper and telling people you don't want to comply with an "anti-child porn" law is going to make you friends? The American people love porn but hate pornographers.

Don't do it. Let the lawyers fight it out.

I give up.

I hate webmasters.

They protected peoples right to do virtual cp and thats a good thing ,your kidding right. Lightspeed does not do virtual cp and I think would be very pissed off to be included in that post.

Yep, my thoughts exactly.

Actresses over 18 posing like they are younger...let's see, who could they be talking about?

I know Steve very well. He would never say what he does is that, but other people would.

No explain how this really isnt a anti child porn law and then explain how there are no child in adult porn and how we are very vigilante on protecting children. Also talk about how most child predator are in aol, yahoo chat groups. Talk about clergy attacking children. Explain how they are using child as a shield to hide their real motives to decide what adults can and can not watch in the privacy of their own homes.Come on guys use your heads and that was just of of the top of mine.

Maybe opening the eyes of the public on how the Government is labeling things under the guise of protecting children when they have very little to nothing to do with it. Or how they are attempting to circumvent the rights of adults viewing habits by using scare tactics by grouping adult entertainment with child pornography.

50 donations..

Thank you another thinker:)

Start explaining, Tony! You have 27 days left. Best of luck!

:thumbsup

THis should of been done starting ten years ago my friend.The reason they can do this is because they have public support if they didnt they wouldnt touch it .No I have a lawyer and have been working on being compliant Im depending on no one but myself. THey get a injunction great ,they dont thats fine too.

Jay your a resonable person and have a brilliant business mind. They questions being asked here are really not attacks and I would presume you would see that. Some of us that are asking these questions are also supporters to boot.
This goes beyond the 2257 injunction, which in itself would not cost much to file and have heard by a court. Some of us are trying to look at the whole picture and have very reasonable questions and concerns about any organization we send money to.

WELL SAID.

Sent this thread to the FSC people.Hopefully somebody will respond.

KB, you've got one hell of a chip on your shoulder these days! ;)

Just calling shit as I see it hun-
call me a pessimist, call me cynical, call me anything you want-
I know and see more than people think.

My momma didn't raise NO DUMMY
:-))

Looking forward to Tom Hymes first official response as Communications Director-

He is the best thing to happen to FSC in years- that I think we can agree on.

Flattery will get you nowhere - lol...my point is the FSC is doing A, B, and C to fight 2257. They are composed of and are hiring the best 1st ammendment lawyers out there to take this case to the goverment. Jeffery Douglas is the attorney for OCCash and also the chairman of the FSC. Truth is, there are very few lawyers that truely understand the online business and are qualified to defend it. Either as members of the FSC or working for the FSC, we have some of the most brilliant legal minds working together, along with a lobbiest in Washington, and a good PR guy for the industry. Do you really think is time for schism?

If you choose not to support them, fine -- but, I can't see what good slamming them on the boards and dividing us further will do. If you think you have a better solution go for it!

If you want to be so smug as to say "I'm not worried about 2257 becasue all of my shit is in order..." -- if you think that is true: good for you! But I am here to tell you that most likely you are not as well off as you think you are. 2257 is a beauroratic minefield set out before you. I know when someone is trying to use scare tactics and I also know when someone is spelling something out the ugly truth...the new regs were not designed for complicity, they were designed for destrection. There are no "good faith attempts" at complying. If you have 99,999 records and good order and 1 that is not, then you are not complying and that is a felony!

Our best bet is to destroy the regs and the FSC is the most organized, best trained, and (god willing) the best funded group to do that and, quite frankly, they seem to be the only ones that are willing to take up the cause. Even if they might have imperfections or there is this or that that you don't like about them -- they are the best fight we've got and I don't know why that is so hard to see.

I will not dissagree there, and as I have stated I am a supporter. I just did not feel that my or others questions and comments were that out of wack or unjustified.

Does anyone remember when the GIA got involved with the FSC

Whatever happened to the GIA?
Was it self serving or was it intended to be for the good pf the entire industry?

I think a lot of educated webmasters know the answer to that question..or those who were around to remember that organization anyway

Thank you, we cant question its a problem we have no postives in the media. I would gladly pay for that because whether you believe it or not its worth alot more than a brief because jurys watch the news and in the end a jury will decide your fate.

Ok then KB -- who do you suggest should fight what is going on with these new regs?

I've been around, I'm no newbie -- tell me! You obviously have a personal problem with the FSC.

Jay, I respect your passion on this issue, and I certainly want the FSC and whoever else might challenge the 2257 to win.

I sincerely hope that the courts will eventually strike down the most onerous provisions of the new 2257 regulations.

If FSC would set a lower Membership fee, they could then use their much larger Membership list to solicit money for their specific causes (such as striking down provisions in the 2257 regs).

I know the ACLU is always sending me issue-based appeals, which I don't mind contributing to, since they only charged me $25 for Membership.

The FSC might also consider a monthly fee, instead of requiring a lump sum amount.

If nothing else, a victory on 2257 should get the FSC lots of new Members, and considerably bolster their credibility.

ADG Webmaster

I think we should get Al Sharpton to fight for all of us-
:-))
He gets more done in a day than most people in this industry.

And I have no personal beef with the FSC- I was the first one they solicited to help get them webmasters back in 2000
Your attorney should remember meeting me with Bill Lyons back at the Doubletree Hotel in Santa Monica.

He should also remember that I helped to raise over $2500 that day with two webmasters alone.

I then tried to help gather webmasters for their COPA meeting and was part of the meeting with Marc Klass and Perry Aftab as well as net nanny

I still have no idea what was accomplished that day or whatever became of any of them.

oh and I never received as much as a THANK YOU FROM THEM as well-

I'm sure if you called them and explained your situation, they would allow you to join for less -- even they agree that there is strength in numbers.

I just don't buy into this "sky is falling" attorney crap
I have seen this too many times before where the ambulance chasing starts and collective paranoia begins..

Just like the Cambria List.

Al Sharpton would do geat, but no mainsteam politician is going to take up our cause especially when the goverment is waving the "child porn" banner. You've gotta give me something better than that. Can't you see you don't have anything?

And, I'm sorry about the THANK YOU thing...that sucks, but it also shows that you do have a personal grudge with them.

There are 3 sides to every story:

1. My side.
2. Your side.
3. And the truth.

I've been in the business for 7 or 8 years now. I've seen the trouble come and go, but I've never seen the industry in such dire straits as it is now.

Also I truly believe when the people/ attorneys associated with these organizations can show where they are working for our best interests- ( pro bono work) and not free BJ's
we'll have a chance.

I'll bet you any amount of money you want that these attorneys do things you'll never hear about publicly and special favors are given to them as form of payment-

I know what I have seen and heard from a myriad of great sources and also being around for 7-8 yrs as yourself, I have see our business at the best of times and the worst of times-

No doubt these are the worst of times for a lot of people- but not everyone.

It definitely sucks for those who own plug ins from what I have read

From what I understand the FSC is to base their case on issues that were already discussed throughout the 2257/DOJ party.. Such as the new regs possibly putting performers in harm's way.. which the DOJ struck down as being less important than the protection of children..

If a judge can over-ride it, then.. well... guess we'll see...

Jay I wish I met you when you were living in Atlanta, you would know im not just breakig balls. The reality is if you pull the cash you say you do and if you didnt blow it , you can walk away from this industry and have alot of options. A little guy like me that makes a good living but nothing in your range. I have to get ready for the shit storm if need be because this is how I make my living and my only real other option at this point would be a shitty day job. FSC should be creating a positive image for the industry out there in the media and they are not that is a problem. They do after liquor and drunk driving there is someone there from the bar owners assoc, talking about all that their membership is doing. Making virtual cp legal is not a big victory its a another strike against us.

if they are doing it based on protecting models then they will lose big time, being a porn model is a choice and now those girls will have to find something esle to do for a living that doesnt put them in danger. Also no one cares about porn models in the nonadult world.

Who are you kidding?
No one in the PORN world cares about porn models either
:upsidedow :upsidedow :upsidedow

I do and they love me for it :)

No they simplily commented back that the rights of the performers are not as important as the rights of kids. It's up to a judge now to stike it down.

I will field this one if your making a million dollars a year you should be fighting for yourself, all the big fish should be fighting this fight because your millions depend on winning. Larry didnt fight for us ,he fought for his business model we just all happened to benefit along the way. Larry had balls ,which is very absent in leaders of our industry today.