Nate-MM2

I know as a Canadian that I am legally protected against extradition to the US to face charges in relation to 2257 regulations. Is Europe generally protected against this as well?

What is the general view on extradition for most of the European nations?

sumphatpimp

I doubt if any country would extradite their citizen for something this foolish.
but they might piss their pants laughing at them.

xxxdesign-net

Why would you be extradited ? THis is a US law that applies to US citizens/residents...

Damian_Maxcash

I think you would have to be a really big playa for them to bother

Its normally reservered for murderers, bank robbers etc

polish_aristocrat

yep, they will extradict and put in an US prison every 19 year old Dutch student who runs a 5k daily thumb TGP and doesnt comply fully with these rules

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wjxxx

I think they wouldn`t extradict even US citizen for this

tradermcduck

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MarkB

Raf1

how could you even think of a question like this? It's just silly

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Lifer

Riiiiiiiiiiiight...

























not!!

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Cains

I think the 2257 for TGP owners will pretty much be
"nope, sorry i don't own the content, you need to speak to <insert content company here>"
"kthxbye"

2257 seems to be more of a legitimate law to help government agencies track the age of models than some big conspiracy tool to drive out the evil pornographers

But then again, anything a government does should be viewed with skepticism by everyone.

Extradition for 2257 violations? Britain wouldn't turn over a rumored Al-qaeda member who vocally opposed everything the US does. If they can't extradite for that, I don't think 2257 laws are high on the international agenda

DWB

I have to agree with you. FIRST they would have to issue a warrent for your arrest (but you would have to be in trouble before they issued a warrent). THEN then would have to work that out with the country you are in to get you placed into custody and sent home.

That is way too much red tape, effort and man power just to check your documents. Not that it's impossible for it to happen, but it's a lot of work. You would first have to deny them access to your records and it would go from there. But I wish the USA luck with that. They have a difficult enough time getting people on murder charges sent back to the US from some countries... imagine trying to get a person back on denying them access to your 2257 records.

Sarah_Jayne

why is it a silly question? I would imagine it depends on your own country and how activly they wanted to persue an individual. You think countries don't extradite people over child porn charges? Make it a death penatly offense and then the UK can't extradite people..other than that..i bet it wouldn't be totally clear cut.

Nate-MM2

It was more out of curiosity than anything else. I don't think it was silly.

It's not as if I'm worried about it, as I'm not even European.

SmokeyTheBear

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Nate-MM2

I also wasn't asking if it was probable but whether or not it was even legally possible to extradite a European webmaster under any circumstances.

SmokeyTheBear

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor..._extradition_2

very possible , heres a brit webmaster they extradited

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Nate-MM2

Conspiring to kill is pretty standard for extradition agreements.

If I did that in Canada I could be extradited to the US as well, but it's a far cry from 2257 violations.

Xenophage

interesting Sig Smokey


Also even if they cant extrradite you you cant come to any webmaster events here ever again, if they find against you here. And it is possible they could seize any domains you might be using in committing the crime.

.COM is controlled by US.

Makes for some fun times.

SmokeyTheBear

......

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SykkBoy

They might not (be able to) extradite, but who says they can't shut down your servers if you are in the US or even block your IP from being accessed by anyone in the US...what if they tell US companies that we can't payout to foreign countries?

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SmokeyTheBear

Your subliminal message worked ..

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Raf1

how can the US extradite people that didn't commit a crime on US territory and are not even a US citizen?

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Nate-MM2

Under current laws is the US government able to pick & choose who you can do business with?

Is there a law against 'funding terrorism' that they might be able to get you for?

SmokeyTheBear

I dont think anyone said anything about the crimes not being commited in the u.s.

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Nate-MM2

It all depends on what you (and the courts) consider 'US territory'

You don't need to be a US Citizen to be extradited...

NaughtyRob

This looks like the thread of the day.
Interesting to say the least.

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Raf1

if something is legal in the country I am living in and I am a citizen of that country, then how can another government extradite me? It just doen't make sense. 2257 are US laws

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seeric

yep, i heard its 2k actually

Nate-MM2

Under Canadian law if something is legal here I can not be extradited for charges stemming from commiting the crime somewhere else.

Basically what I was asking is do the majority of European countries have this protection as well?

Extradition agreements vary from country to country and between country-to-country, there is no one-size-fits-all system.

Sarah_Jayne

exactly.

Nate-MM2

Knowing with absolute certainty that you have 100% indemnity from 2257 regulations that cannot be challenged and struck down in any court in the world is a very important distinction to make when compared to 'well... i don't think they'll be bothered to put the effort in to catch me...'

Especially when many would consider the current administration to have a history of acting without sensible reason.

Just my 2 (canadian) cents...

Xenophage

man just wait till I turn on the real ad campaign I have been soooo suttle so far hahahahah...


Anyway I doubt anyone would get extradited for 2257. but if they think the models are no of age... they could get you on that and many countries have co operated when it comes to that issue to extradite so make sure you have the documents anyway !

xxxdesign-net

You seem to be in the know.. tell us more..

Lifer

George Bush can do anything fucking thing he wants to.

Now...

Shut Up!!

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nojob

the ups will find a way to get you. Or the bounty hunters will come knockin on your doors

GatorB

Then why change the law the old one was fine. If the producers of the content have already verified that the model was over 18 then WTF do I need to have this proof to show the government. Why don't they go straight to the source, the content producer? I mean how is giving out a models real name and address to any wannabe webmaster "protecting" her?

GatorB

So if CP was legal in your country the US can't extridite you? Think again.

Tipsy

You also need to stop thinking of Europe as one country - it seems to be something that many are confused about. What's true for one country may not be true for another and Europe remains a group of very separate countries despite some sharing a currency and the efforts of Brussels.

Also to say the distinction between can't and improbable is important really is daft. Something can very easily be so improbable/unlikely as to be as good as can't so the distinction matters little.

That said it'd be interesting to know a professional opinion from lawyers in various EU countries as it really isn't as clear cut either way as many think, especially if you want to consider all the possibilities however unlikely. And again it's worth stressing from several countries.

Let's be truthful though - it is NEVER going to happen. BUT - there's a lot more to think about than the more or less non-existent threat of extradition and those things WILL have a big impact on even those outside of the US.

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Nate-MM2

If CP was legal in Canada I could post it all over the internet and the US wouldn't be able to extradite me as I would have the protection of the Canadian Government.

They couldn't get me for spamming either as long as I didn't collect the email addresses from information gathered in Canada, as that is illegal here.

BRISK

1. Extradition treaties are different in every country

2. I've never heard of anyone getting extradited for little things like a lack of 2257 information. Think bigger. Stuff like murder, terrorism, rape, kidnapping, piracy, etc...

3. Generally, to even be considered for extradition, it needs to be a crime in both countries. 2257 is only a US law, whereas things like murder are obviously crimes in every country.

I very much doubt that any country (besides the US) would consider a lack of 2257 information to be a serious crime. If anything, many countries consider giving out 2257 information to be a crime. So I think it's a safe bet that nobody will ever be extradited for lack of 2257 information. The US wouldn't even bother trying because they know they wouldn't succeed, and besides, they would have more than enough Americans to prosecute under 2257 anyways, they wouldn't have the time or man power to bother with non-Americans.

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Raf1

Well, has any webmaster from Holland been extradited to the US for bestiality porn?
I would like to believe that something like what you say is possible, because CP should most definitely be punished, but I just don't see it happening.

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GatorB

The US has gotten people from Russia extridited for CP. Just because a law SAYS it can do something doesn't mean it will. I think the DOJ would just take another route. For example if you are from Europe but you processor in from the US or your sponsor is from the US they certianly have the means to make sure you don't get paid.

Raf1

This is very true

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Raf1

yes, but we're talking about extraditing European citizens by the US government. It's just pretty unrealistic for me, since giving out personal information in a way that 2257 requires is illegal in Europe. I'll ask my lawyer just to be sure, but in my opinion it's totally unrealistic...

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Tipsy

Damn - you made a much better job of it than my feeble attempt before you. All that said though it is a huge concern for many reasons but extradition really isn't one of them for most people. Amazing how many people think it is and how many believe that the US really is the world police that it likes to think of itself as.

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skillfull

he is right for canadiens

we have a law here that if you commit a crime in the eyes of another country but this thing isnt a crime in Canada, they cant extract you whatever it is.

Otherwise we would all be in a Iran prison cells...

whatever the US laws are have 0 impact on me

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skillfull

a part of the canada extradiction law

The offence must constitute a crime if it had of been committed in Canada. The text of the Canadian criminal law does not have to be identical to the statute in the requesting country. The requesting country only needs to provide evidence that the conduct would constitute a crime if committed in Canada.

The crime must be listed in the list in the extradition treaty between Canada and the requesting country. The Act allows Canada to extradite persons charged with serious crimes. But the list in the Act appears to be for reference purposes only as in one case, it was decided that it is the list in the extradition treaty that prevails and that even if a crime is listed in the Act, it will still not be extraditable if it is not referred to in the treaty. These offences, which the Act calls "extradition crimes", include murder, or attempt or conspiracy to murder; manslaughter; counterfeiting or altering money, and uttering counterfeit or altered money; larceny or theft; embezzlement; obtaining money or goods by false pretenses; crimes against bankruptcy or insolvency law; fraud committed by a bailee, banker, agent, factor, trustee, or by a director or member or officer of any company, which fraud is made criminal by any Act for the time being in force; sexual assault, sexual assault with a weapon, threats to a third party or causing bodily harm or aggravated sexual assault; abduction; child stealing; kidnapping; false imprisonment; burglary, housebreaking or shop-breaking; arson; robbery; threats, by letter or otherwise, with intent to extort; and perjury. The complete list of offences is covered in Schedule A to the Extradition Act. The Act adds that no fugitive is liable to surrender if it appears that the offence in respect of which proceedings are taken is one of a political character; or the proceedings are being taken with a view to prosecute or punish the fugitive for an offence of a political character.

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GatorB

Keep thinking that. When your American sponsor is prevented from sending you a paycheck you'll think "0 impact on me"

skillfull

i dont use any US based sponsor has main sponsors
thank you for your understanding ;)

VOTE FOR JESUSLAND !

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Nate-MM2

Neither sponsors, hosts, processors or the US government has the finances available to determine whether or not foreign webmasters are compliant with 2257 regulations.