can Europeans legally be extradited to the US to face 2257 charges? - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

sacX · 05-19-2005, 01:59 PM

australian extradited for software piracy

Several Australian judges have rejected his appeal against extradition, but he's still fighting it.

GatorB · 05-19-2005, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skillfull

i dont use any US based sponsor has main sponsors
thank you for your understanding ;)

VOTE FOR JESUSLAND !

Hmmmmmm smashbucks is US based. How about you non-US sponsors processors? Are you telling all of your doings in this biz have absolutley ZERO US involvement.

sacX · 05-19-2005, 02:01 PM

here is where he lost an appeal

GatorB · 05-19-2005, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nate-MM2

Neither sponsors, hosts, processors or the US government has the finances available to determine whether or not foreign webmasters are compliant with 2257 regulations.

If some investigator from the DOJ gets a complaint and goes to a website, do you think he's going to check to see if it's American or foriegn owned and if it's not American say "fuck it we can't do anything about it so let's move on"?

Pornopat · 05-19-2005, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nate-MM2

Under Canadian law if something is legal here I can not be extradited for charges stemming from commiting the crime somewhere else.

Basically what I was asking is do the majority of European countries have this protection as well?

Extradition agreements vary from country to country and between country-to-country, there is no one-size-fits-all system.

Citizens of the European Union have the Law on Privacy.
We can be convicted for complying with the 2257 regulation according to this (Something that will never happen as well)
According to this American webmasters complying with 2257 might be arrested for breaking the privacy law....

Nate-MM2 · 05-19-2005, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GatorB

If some investigator from the DOJ gets a complaint and goes to a website, do you think he's going to check to see if it's American or foriegn owned and if it's not American say "fuck it we can't do anything about it so let's move on"?

What are you getting at?

That they are just going to start forcing hosts & processors to shut down sites that may be compliant just because they are not US-based?

There is absolutely no way to tell whether foreign sites are compliant without paying to travel to the address to see if the records really do exist.

No host or sponsor could ever afford to do that for all of their foreign clients.

BRISK · 05-19-2005, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sacX

australian extradited for software piracy

Several Australian judges have rejected his appeal against extradition, but he's still fighting it.

Lack of 2257 information on a web page isn't the same as multi-million dollar software piracy organizations, murder, rape, or terrorism.

orcastudios · 05-19-2005, 02:32 PM

It would be very foolish to underestimate the power of the U.S. Government or the passion, intent and determination of these right-wing "porn haters".

Nate-MM2 · 05-19-2005, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orcastudios

It would be very foolish to underestimate the power of the U.S. Government or the passion, intent and determination of these right-wing "porn haters".

Bush & the US government have no say in the issue. They aren't a threat to start going above extradition agreements.

directfiesta · 05-19-2005, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skillfull

a part of the canada extradiction law

The offence must constitute a crime if it had of been committed in Canada. The text of the Canadian criminal law does not have to be identical to the statute in the requesting country. The requesting country only needs to provide evidence that the conduct would constitute a crime if committed in Canada.

The crime must be listed in the list in the extradition treaty between Canada and the requesting country. The Act allows Canada to extradite persons charged with serious crimes. But the list in the Act appears to be for reference purposes only as in one case, it was decided that it is the list in the extradition treaty that prevails and that even if a crime is listed in the Act, it will still not be extraditable if it is not referred to in the treaty. These offences, which the Act calls "extradition crimes", include murder, or attempt or conspiracy to murder; manslaughter; counterfeiting or altering money, and uttering counterfeit or altered money; larceny or theft; embezzlement; obtaining money or goods by false pretenses; crimes against bankruptcy or insolvency law; fraud committed by a bailee, banker, agent, factor, trustee, or by a director or member or officer of any company, which fraud is made criminal by any Act for the time being in force; sexual assault, sexual assault with a weapon, threats to a third party or causing bodily harm or aggravated sexual assault; abduction; child stealing; kidnapping; false imprisonment; burglary, housebreaking or shop-breaking; arson; robbery; threats, by letter or otherwise, with intent to extort; and perjury. The complete list of offences is covered in Schedule A to the Extradition Act. The Act adds that no fugitive is liable to surrender if it appears that the offence in respect of which proceedings are taken is one of a political character; or the proceedings are being taken with a view to prosecute or punish the fugitive for an offence of a political character.

Nice to live in a civilized country

Webby · 05-19-2005, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nate-MM2

I know as a Canadian that I am legally protected against extradition to the US to face charges in relation to 2257 regulations. Is Europe generally protected against this as well?

What is the general view on extradition for most of the European nations?

The quick answer is no :-)

Stuff like US Civil Code is not anything that is recognized by other nations and courts outside the US don't listen to the laws of the US. (They have enough problems interpreting their own laws without getting involved in some warped US legal scenario which is irrelevant to them.)

Extradition agreements do exist for major offenses (murder etc), but certainly not for any possible "porn related" violations in other countries. Even on the question of serious crime, - it's not that easy persuading a judge the he should sign an extradiction order - they want substantial evidence.

In Europe.. as well as several other countries, there is a problem agreeing to extradict individuals to the US where the possible penalty could be death and any extradiction order on this basis is made after specific agreement with US courts that the death penalty will not be applied.

On 2257, this is totally irrevalent and not recognized outside US territory. But, as long as any servers exist in the US, - they could close them down blah, - but that's all they can do. I'd think US law enforcement have more to do than waste time over some 2257 infringement where the "perp" is not a US citizen and the laws of other countries apply - it's a non-starter.

But.. other countries - Europe included, - do have laws primarily for the protection of children and whatever nation could instigate some action if it was established, for example, under age "models" were being used. But that has nothing to do with the US or 2257 and is hardly the subject of an extradiction hearing.

skillfull · 05-19-2005, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Webby

The quick answer is no :-)

Stuff like US Civil Code is not anything that is recognized by other nations and courts outside the US don't listen to the laws of the US. (They have enough problems interpreting their own laws without getting involved in some warped US legal scenario which is irrelevant to them.)

Extradition agreements do exist for major offenses (murder etc), but certainly not for any possible "porn related" violations in other countries. Even on the question of serious crime, - it's not that easy persuading a judge the he should sign an extradiction order - they want substantial evidence.

In Europe.. as well as several other countries, there is a problem agreeing to extradict individuals to the US where the possible penalty could be death and any extradiction order on this basis is made after specific agreement with US courts that the death penalty will not be applied.

On 2257, this is totally irrevalent and not recognized outside US territory. But, as long as any servers exist in the US, - they could close them down blah, - but that's all they can do. I'd think US law enforcement have more to do than waste time over some 2257 infringement where the "perp" is not a US citizen and the laws of other countries apply - it's a non-starter.

But.. other countries - Europe included, - do have laws primarily for the protection of children and whatever nation could instigate some action if it was established, for example, under age "models" were being used. But that has nothing to do with the US or 2257 and is hardly the subject of an extradiction hearing.

what he said

jimmyf · 05-19-2005, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nate-MM2

I know as a Canadian that I am legally protected against extradition to the US to face charges in relation to 2257 regulations. Is Europe generally protected against this as well?

What is the general view on extradition for most of the European nations?

the US I'm sure wouldn't extradite anyone to face 2257, but then again you would be very surprised what a lot of countries will do when the USA puts a little pressure on your Govt.

jimmyf · 05-19-2005, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sumphatpimp

I doubt if any country would extradite their citizen for something this foolish.
but they might piss their pants laughing at them.

your post is worded much better than mine, key being foolish.

My thinking exactly.. Wouldn't think so talking 2 some of the content producers though.. let the flames start

They got's a bang-up selling point

jimmyf · 05-19-2005, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmokeyTheBear

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor..._extradition_2

very possible , heres a brit webmaster they extradited

British Terror Suspect Can Be Extradited

didn't have his 2257 in order

sacX · 05-19-2005, 06:08 PM

cancel any visits to the US though

pornguy · 05-19-2005, 06:10 PM

Keep in mind that Canada bows to the Powers in DC. So dont think that you are safe.

BRISK · 05-19-2005, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmyf

the US I'm sure wouldn't extradite anyone to face 2257, but then again you would be very surprised what a lot of countries will do when the USA puts a little pressure on your Govt.

The only countries that might bend to political pressure that way would most likely be 3rd world corrupt countries that have weak extradition treaties with America.

Besides, I've read before that countries like Germany and France do not extradite their own citizens.

All of this extradition talk is silly. Lack of 2257 information is not at all the type of thing people get extradited for, especially since it is not a crime outside of America.

elric · 05-19-2005, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orcastudios

It would be very foolish to underestimate the power of the U.S. Government or the passion, intent and determination of these right-wing "porn haters".

I agree.

Since the Republican politicians answer to the red state "moral majority" and they control the Executive and Legislative branches, they could do a lot to make things difficult.

As an example, we have only to look at China, where they just block access to any websites they don't like - even ones run by people in other countries. So US could just do the same thing.

The Patriot Act gives the US government a lot of powers to take extreme actions without any real justification.

They probably won't because a lot of people are making a lot of money in porn. But who knows? The scariest thing to me about religious fundamentalists is that they are not thinking rationally. What if they decide that the quickest way to get themselves into heaven is by banning extreme porn sites? They might do it.

Dirty F · 05-19-2005, 06:18 PM

Dirty Dane · 05-19-2005, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franck

BRISK · 05-19-2005, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pornguy

Keep in mind that Canada bows to the Powers in DC. So dont think that you are safe.

You're an idiot.

jimmyf · 05-19-2005, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BRISK

The only countries that might bend to political pressure that way would most likely be 3rd world corrupt countries that have weak extradition treaties with America.

Besides, I've read before that countries like Germany and France do not extradite their own citizens.

All of this extradition talk is silly. Lack of 2257 information is not at all the type of thing people get extradited for, especially since it is not a crime outside of America.

my

are the USA won't waste the time on even USA webmaster's unless you are into something else and it's the only, or one of the things they can get you for, or excuse 2 snoop around for other things, now that's just my

.

The IRS use 2 come to my office, and talk to about tax returns, after the 1st time I told the guy you have to go outside and I will talk to you... He was there snooping around. So he went outside

I went outside and talked to him.

Not all I said 2 him, really surprised he didn't send someone over 2 take me away.. Then I thought about it why do they want 2 lock up my white ass for 40K

reynold · 05-19-2005, 08:36 PM

Is there any extradition treaty going on between two countries?

Illicit · 05-19-2005, 08:52 PM

What if a sponsor gave you content of a girl who was underage and you just assumed she was of age. Then the US goverment shows up with proof thats she isnt of age. I think that would get you extradicted from Canada or Europe real fast.

People trust their sponsors way too much.

BRISK · 05-19-2005, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illicit

What if a sponsor gave you content of a girl who was underage and you just assumed she was of age. Then the US goverment shows up with proof thats she isnt of age. I think that would get you extradicted from Canada or Europe real fast.

People trust their sponsors way too much.

This thread has nothing to do with people who post underage content, it's about providing 2257 info (or lack thereof). The two issues are not the same thing.

Illicit · 05-19-2005, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BRISK

This thread has nothing to do with people who post underage content, it's about providing 2257 info (or lack thereof). The two issues are not the same thing.

just pointing out something for people who feel they can post anything on their sites just because someone says its ok. how many of you ever check 2257 docs for anything on your thumb sites ? Im sure someone has a pic of an underage girl without knowing. the new 2257 helps to solve things like this. Being compliant is the safest thing to do, no matter where u live.

BRISK · 05-19-2005, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illicit

What if a sponsor gave you content of a girl who was underage and you just assumed she was of age. Then the US goverment shows up with proof thats she isnt of age. I think that would get you extradicted from Canada or Europe real fast.

People trust their sponsors way too much.

If someone was posting underage content on their website, it would get them thrown in prison in their own country. Extradition is unlikely, and might not even be possible depending on the country.

05-19-2005, 01:59 PM	#51
sacX Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: New Zealand Posts: 2,998	australian extradited for software piracy Several Australian judges have rejected his appeal against extradition, but he's still fighting it. __________________ Have Asian Language Traffic?

05-19-2005, 02:01 PM	#53
sacX Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: New Zealand Posts: 2,998	here is where he lost an appeal __________________ Have Asian Language Traffic?

05-19-2005, 06:08 PM	#66
sacX Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: New Zealand Posts: 2,998	cancel any visits to the US though __________________ Have Asian Language Traffic?

05-19-2005, 06:10 PM	#67
pornguy Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Homeless Posts: 62,911	Keep in mind that Canada bows to the Powers in DC. So dont think that you are safe. __________________ PornGuy skype me pornguy_epic AmateurDough The Hottes Shemales online! TChicks.com \| Angeles Cid \| Mariana Cordoba \| MAILERS WELCOME!

05-19-2005, 08:52 PM	#75
Illicit wtf ? Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: GFY Posts: 11,895	What if a sponsor gave you content of a girl who was underage and you just assumed she was of age. Then the US goverment shows up with proof thats she isnt of age. I think that would get you extradicted from Canada or Europe real fast. People trust their sponsors way too much. __________________ Insert Sig Here

05-19-2005, 02:32 PM	#58
orcastudios Registered User Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 20	It would be very foolish to underestimate the power of the U.S. Government or the passion, intent and determination of these right-wing "porn haters".

05-19-2005, 06:18 PM	#70
Dirty F Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 59,204

05-19-2005, 08:36 PM	#74
reynold Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Global Traveler Posts: 51,271	Is there any extradition treaty going on between two countries?