What, no VISA lawsuit yet? - GoFuckYourself.com

mistressofnite · 10-05-2002, 02:07 PM

Do the lawyers take weekends off or what? I want blood goddammit! Somebody needs to start a class action lawsuit against VISA, or something.. I.. .. er...

Fletch XXX · 10-05-2002, 02:08 PM

So take some of your money and file a suit.

Bobo · 10-05-2002, 02:14 PM

'Somebody' has to refer to an organization or a group of people with the gumption and money to stand up to Visa.

PornoDoggy · 10-05-2002, 02:15 PM

I personally think all American webmasters should call their Senators.

"Hello? Senator Lott's ofifice? I'm a pornographer, and I want to talk to the Senator about ..."

Unless you could get an injunction prohibiting the implementation of the rules, which is unlikely, a successful lawsuit probably isn't in the cards. Stranger things have happened, of course, but these kinds of regulations are generally drafted with a tremendous amount of lawyer input by Visa, and may very well have been bantered back and forth between the lawyers of the processors and Visa.

flashfreak · 10-05-2002, 02:21 PM

nobody will start a lawsuit on his own...
only an unified webmaster organization can do that but it seems it doesn't exist such an organization...

FATPad · 10-05-2002, 02:33 PM

I agree.

Let's sue them for charging a fee and deciding who they want to do business with.

Then I'm gonna file a class action sue against all the TGP's who don't list me and send me traffic.

Who's with me??

PornoDoggy · 10-05-2002, 02:37 PM

I like your idea, FATPad ... maybe while we're at it we can sue the sponsors for the signups we lost because they designed shitty tours. Yeah. Man, when you figure in the recurring losses we've experienced because they didn't work hard enough to keep the surfer I sent them for longer than 3 months, we're talking some serious change here.

Shoplifter · 10-05-2002, 02:39 PM

I hope no one will lose their businesses over this, but as a Canadian operator I am worried. The message I am getting from Ibill and every other processor is conflicting. Ibill posted a notice that says nothing of the necessity of having a USA presence, CCBill in their online notice states that this is necessary.

So say I never read the boards (like 98% of webmasters) and all I see is the announcement from Ibill or Globill or whomever and say this advisory is incorrect and I lose my business. Is there a liability situtation here?

I guarantee that there are thousands of Canadian and foreign webmasters who have no clue that any of this is happening. If the only advisement of these changes is going to be receipt of the application form itself it's going to be quite a shock to those who will then find they have only a few days to establish a USA presence and banking. This is hardly appropriate and due notice.

I think the IPSP's have handled this announcement poorly to say the least. They should have used postal mail to contact their clients and give appropriate notice of the changes with decisive
evalutions of the new regulations. At this point there is no one who seems to have a clue about what foreign webmasters are supposed to do to comply.

Fletch XXX · 10-05-2002, 02:40 PM

Man everytime I read the probs some of you guys must be having, it must really suck. Sincerly.

theking · 10-05-2002, 02:41 PM

You are assuming that there are winnable grounds for a lawsuit. No one is going to take legal action unless there is a good chance of winning a lawsuit. Visa certainly has an army of attorneys and the money to fight a legal battle for years and years.

Fletch XXX · 10-05-2002, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by theking
You are assuming that there are winnable grounds for a lawsuit. No one is going to take legal action unless there is a good chance of winning a lawsuit. Visa certainly has an army of attorneys and the money to fight a legal battle for years and years.

Exactly.

In battles like this, no one usually ends. I don't have examples.

Its a *drain the others funds* until the *other* is depleted type of war.

Until one says, fuck this - its costing us millions and ends with no results.

PornoDoggy · 10-05-2002, 02:45 PM

Shoplifter ... I wasn't making light of the serious situation that non-US webmasters may find themselves in. I know it sucks. I think, however, that there are a lot of gray areas that will be clarified shorty. Without attempting to seem like I'm "defending" the processors, I think this was handed to them by Visa more in terms of an edict than as a negotiation.

mistressofnite · 10-05-2002, 02:51 PM

What is really quite surprising is that no major news organization, or any minor ones for that matter other than our adult news sources, has covered this story to date. Interesting.

cherrylula · 10-05-2002, 02:51 PM

Until visa officially blacklists someone and puts them out of business for unfair reasons, I don't think anyone has a case on their hands.

Yet.

Lets see what happens.

Anyone making hasty business decisions right now could be regretting it later.

Amputate Your Head · 10-05-2002, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mistressofnite
What is really quite surprising is that no major news organization, or any minor ones for that matter other than our adult news sources, has covered this story to date. Interesting.

what are they gonna say? They gonna broadcast a live News Bulletin from George W.?

"Our nations Internet pornographers are being held under siege by the unfair practices of a huge corporation. It's time we took a stand and put and end to the tyranny."

C'mon.... we are totally alone here. We are the last people on Earth that anyone is going to publicly support. WE know the demand is still out there.... hell, A s h c r o f t himself probably buys porn..... but no one is going to stick up for INternet pornographers.... not now... not ever.

We are the outcasts of the global society.

theking · 10-05-2002, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Amputate Your Head

what are they gonna say? They gonna broadcast a live News Bulletin from George W.?

"Our nations Internet pornographers are being held under siege by the unfair practices of a huge corporation. It's time we took a stand and put and end to the tyranny."

C'mon.... we are totally alone here. We are the last people on Earth that anyone is going to publicly support. WE know the demand is still out there.... hell, A s h c r o f t himself probably buys porn..... but no one is going to stick up for INternet pornographers.... not now... not ever.

We are the outcasts of the global society.

Very true.

Kingfish · 10-05-2002, 03:06 PM

If you want to call your Senator and kick Visa in the nuts at the same time call them and tell them to stick bankruptcy reform up their ass in a nice way. ?Mr. Lott I am small businessman in your district and I have always voted for you, but I will be unable to support you if go along with bankruptcy reform.? Part of the reason the credit card industry is cracking down on the porn business is a backroom deal made between some of the Conservative members of congress and the CC industry. The crux of the deal is if congress passes bankruptcy reform for the credit card industry they won?t process porn payments anymore.

UnseenWorld · 10-05-2002, 03:17 PM

I wonder if the ACLU could be convinced that this is a civil liberties issue, taking rights away from our industry's customers through the back door.

Kingfish · 10-05-2002, 03:21 PM

Problem is with the backdoor there is nothing for them to take to court.

theking · 10-05-2002, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by UnseenWorld
I wonder if the ACLU could be convinced that this is a civil liberties issue, taking rights away from our industry's customers through the back door.

I think not. This is a business instituting a financial business policy and I don't think it can be made into a civil liberties case by any stretch.

Kingfish · 10-05-2002, 03:26 PM

Very true the ACLU represents people that suffer at the hands of some government policy not those that suffer at the hands of private business.

mistressofnite · 10-05-2002, 03:27 PM

The fact that these new VISA regs are extortion-like in nature, is what leads me to think the press would gobble this up. IT has an Enquirer-type element to it. And who defines "high risk" sites? What is the criteria? The chargeback rate? What if you have an adult site that has zero chargeback rate, does that mean you are exempt from paying the fees? NOT!

theking · 10-05-2002, 03:27 PM

In addition I seriously doubt that by imposing fees to do business with Visa is a violation of any current law. They are not forcing anyone to do business with them. They are charging a fee for doing business with them. It is your choice to do business with them or not.

FATPad · 10-05-2002, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by theking
In addition I seriously doubt that by imposing fees to do business with Visa is a violation of any current law. They are not forcing anyone to do business with them. They are charging a fee for doing business with them. It is your choice to do business with them or not.

Exactly right.

mistressofnite · 10-05-2002, 03:31 PM

Has this been asked in any of these gagillion messaged threads:

what if you tell ccbill/ibill you're not paying the visa fee, do they can you on the spot?

theking · 10-05-2002, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mistressofnite
Has this been asked in any of these gagillion messaged threads:

what if you tell ccbill/ibill you're not paying the visa fee, do they can you on the spot?

No. It is my understanding that you can opt out of using Visa. If you intend to use Visa you must pay the fee. Someone correct me if I am wrong.

kevinl · 10-05-2002, 03:43 PM

Who are you going to sue and on what grounds?

No one will post anything official from VISA and most processors are posting their interpretations of the new VISA regs.

I don't think you can sue someone over an opinion.

Has anyone tried to contact VISA directly.

Several thousand of us call them Monday and we might get an answer.

Any body got their number?

mistressofnite · 10-05-2002, 03:52 PM

Ok, so I opt out of using VISA with ccbill/ibill, what's left? Mastercard? WEb900? Echecks? I hate echecks, those were returned/refunded more than cc's.

theking · 10-05-2002, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mistressofnite
Ok, so I opt out of using VISA with ccbill/ibill, what's left? Mastercard? WEb900? Echecks? I hate echecks, those were returned/refunded more than cc's.

You are left with everything the Billing Processors use other than Visa. Thats it.

ColKurtz · 10-05-2002, 04:22 PM

But lets say you decide to go with one of these "light" options where you just take mastercard and not visa. What happens to all your previous reccurrings from visa. Are the processors going to spend hours of time going through all your reccurrings and credit any past visa signups?

That seems like an administrative nightmare and would be shitty if that happens.

theking · 10-05-2002, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ColKurtz
But lets say you decide to go with one of these "light" options where you just take mastercard and not visa. What happens to all your previous reccurrings from visa. Are the processors going to spend hours of time going through all your reccurrings and credit any past visa signups?

That seems like an administrative nightmare and would be shitty if that happens.

It is my understanding that you will lose your recurring from Visa. Period. Someone correct me if I am wrong.

vik · 10-05-2002, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kingfish
If you want to call your Senator and kick Visa in the nuts at the same time call them and tell them to stick bankruptcy reform up their ass in a nice way. ?Mr. Lott I am small businessman in your district and I have always voted for you, but I will be unable to support you if go along with bankruptcy reform.? Part of the reason the credit card industry is cracking down on the porn business is a backroom deal made between some of the Conservative members of congress and the CC industry. The crux of the deal is if congress passes bankruptcy reform for the credit card industry they won?t process porn payments anymore.

How about every webmaster post a big notice on their home page telling all surfers to contact their legislators to "SAY NO TO BANKRUPTCY REFORM!" with a link to all senators and Us Reps in the U.S. Nothing about the porn business has to even be mentioned. Do you think Visa and MC would get the message that there is a huge voting block of people that could actually screw up their political agenda?

vik

Socks · 10-05-2002, 05:06 PM

Could Visa be violating international law by unfairly treating international webmasters who rely on them to do business?

Scootermuze · 10-05-2002, 05:13 PM

Has anyone checked the terms that applied when initially signing up with Visa?

You associated yourself with them under those circumstances.. Now they are going to change terms for existing accounts.. Might be some technical foul you can dig up...

Shoplifter · 10-05-2002, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Scootermuze
Has anyone checked the terms that applied when initially signing up with Visa?

You associated yourself with them under those circumstances.. Now they are going to change terms for existing accounts.. Might be some technical foul you can dig up...

The thing is that you are not actually signed up with Visa...That's part of why this is happenening.

Whether or not the billers have some sort of liability over how this plays out is the issue.

jimmyf · 10-05-2002, 05:18 PM

Maybe the EU will tell Visa... You can't do business any longer in Europe with these Reg.'s... Which could happen but not likly. The reason is it's not going to be just the Porn business.. it's going to be ALL high risk business's...

.:Frog:. · 10-05-2002, 05:19 PM

Don't accept CC if you have a problem.
There is more then 1 way to receive payment.

10-05-2002, 02:07 PM	#1
mistressofnite Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 64	What, no VISA lawsuit yet? Do the lawyers take weekends off or what? I want blood goddammit! Somebody needs to start a class action lawsuit against VISA, or something.. I.. .. er...

10-05-2002, 02:08 PM	#2
Fletch XXX GFY HALL OF FAME DAMMIT!!! Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: that 504 Posts: 60,840	So take some of your money and file a suit. __________________ Want an Android App for your tube, membership, or free site? Need banners or promo material? Hit us up (ICQ Fletch: 148841377) or email me fletchxxx at gmail.com - recent work - About me

10-05-2002, 02:21 PM	#5
flashfreak Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: cloud number 9 Posts: 4,396	nobody will start a lawsuit on his own... only an unified webmaster organization can do that but it seems it doesn't exist such an organization... __________________ SEO Mogul \| ICQ: 163671223

10-05-2002, 02:33 PM	#6
FATPad Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 6,693	I agree. Let's sue them for charging a fee and deciding who they want to do business with. Then I'm gonna file a class action sue against all the TGP's who don't list me and send me traffic. Who's with me?? __________________ <a href="http://www.adultcontent.co.uk">Adult Content UK - Great British Content</a>

10-05-2002, 02:40 PM	#9
Fletch XXX GFY HALL OF FAME DAMMIT!!! Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: that 504 Posts: 60,840	Man everytime I read the probs some of you guys must be having, it must really suck. Sincerly. __________________ Want an Android App for your tube, membership, or free site? Need banners or promo material? Hit us up (ICQ Fletch: 148841377) or email me fletchxxx at gmail.com - recent work - About me

10-05-2002, 02:14 PM	#3
Bobo Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 2,253	'Somebody' has to refer to an organization or a group of people with the gumption and money to stand up to Visa.

10-05-2002, 02:15 PM	#4
PornoDoggy Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,053	I personally think all American webmasters should call their Senators. "Hello? Senator Lott's ofifice? I'm a pornographer, and I want to talk to the Senator about ..." Unless you could get an injunction prohibiting the implementation of the rules, which is unlikely, a successful lawsuit probably isn't in the cards. Stranger things have happened, of course, but these kinds of regulations are generally drafted with a tremendous amount of lawyer input by Visa, and may very well have been bantered back and forth between the lawyers of the processors and Visa.

10-05-2002, 02:37 PM	#7
PornoDoggy Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,053	I like your idea, FATPad ... maybe while we're at it we can sue the sponsors for the signups we lost because they designed shitty tours. Yeah. Man, when you figure in the recurring losses we've experienced because they didn't work hard enough to keep the surfer I sent them for longer than 3 months, we're talking some serious change here.

10-05-2002, 02:39 PM	#8
Shoplifter Richest man in Babylon Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Posts: 10,002 Posts: 5,739	I hope no one will lose their businesses over this, but as a Canadian operator I am worried. The message I am getting from Ibill and every other processor is conflicting. Ibill posted a notice that says nothing of the necessity of having a USA presence, CCBill in their online notice states that this is necessary. So say I never read the boards (like 98% of webmasters) and all I see is the announcement from Ibill or Globill or whomever and say this advisory is incorrect and I lose my business. Is there a liability situtation here? I guarantee that there are thousands of Canadian and foreign webmasters who have no clue that any of this is happening. If the only advisement of these changes is going to be receipt of the application form itself it's going to be quite a shock to those who will then find they have only a few days to establish a USA presence and banking. This is hardly appropriate and due notice. I think the IPSP's have handled this announcement poorly to say the least. They should have used postal mail to contact their clients and give appropriate notice of the changes with decisive evalutions of the new regulations. At this point there is no one who seems to have a clue about what foreign webmasters are supposed to do to comply.

10-05-2002, 02:41 PM	#10
theking Nice Kitty Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: The good old USA!!! Posts: 21,053	You are assuming that there are winnable grounds for a lawsuit. No one is going to take legal action unless there is a good chance of winning a lawsuit. Visa certainly has an army of attorneys and the money to fight a legal battle for years and years. __________________ When you're running down my country hoss...you're walking on the fighting side of me! FOR THE LYING LOWLIFE POSTING AS PATHFINDER...https://gfy.com/fucking-around-and-pr...athfinder.html

10-05-2002, 02:45 PM	#12
PornoDoggy Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,053	Shoplifter ... I wasn't making light of the serious situation that non-US webmasters may find themselves in. I know it sucks. I think, however, that there are a lot of gray areas that will be clarified shorty. Without attempting to seem like I'm "defending" the processors, I think this was handed to them by Visa more in terms of an edict than as a negotiation.

10-05-2002, 02:51 PM	#13
mistressofnite Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 64	What is really quite surprising is that no major news organization, or any minor ones for that matter other than our adult news sources, has covered this story to date. Interesting.

10-05-2002, 02:51 PM	#14
cherrylula lol Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 15,969	Until visa officially blacklists someone and puts them out of business for unfair reasons, I don't think anyone has a case on their hands. Yet. Lets see what happens. Anyone making hasty business decisions right now could be regretting it later.

10-05-2002, 03:06 PM	#17
Kingfish Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 668	If you want to call your Senator and kick Visa in the nuts at the same time call them and tell them to stick bankruptcy reform up their ass in a nice way. ?Mr. Lott I am small businessman in your district and I have always voted for you, but I will be unable to support you if go along with bankruptcy reform.? Part of the reason the credit card industry is cracking down on the porn business is a backroom deal made between some of the Conservative members of congress and the CC industry. The crux of the deal is if congress passes bankruptcy reform for the credit card industry they won?t process porn payments anymore.

10-05-2002, 03:17 PM	#18
UnseenWorld Confirmed User Join Date: May 2001 Location: Portland, OR, USA Posts: 5,279	I wonder if the ACLU could be convinced that this is a civil liberties issue, taking rights away from our industry's customers through the back door. __________________ SIG TOO BIG! Maximum 120x60 button and no more than 3 text lines of DEFAULT SIZE and COLOR. Unless your sig is for a GFY top banner sponsor, then you may use a 624x80 instead of a 120x60.

10-05-2002, 03:21 PM	#19
Kingfish Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 668	Problem is with the backdoor there is nothing for them to take to court.

10-05-2002, 03:26 PM	#21
Kingfish Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 668	Very true the ACLU represents people that suffer at the hands of some government policy not those that suffer at the hands of private business.

10-05-2002, 03:27 PM	#22
mistressofnite Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 64	The fact that these new VISA regs are extortion-like in nature, is what leads me to think the press would gobble this up. IT has an Enquirer-type element to it. And who defines "high risk" sites? What is the criteria? The chargeback rate? What if you have an adult site that has zero chargeback rate, does that mean you are exempt from paying the fees? NOT!

10-05-2002, 03:31 PM	#25
mistressofnite Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 64	Has this been asked in any of these gagillion messaged threads: what if you tell ccbill/ibill you're not paying the visa fee, do they can you on the spot?

10-05-2002, 03:43 PM	#27
kevinl Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: US Posts: 261	Who are you going to sue and on what grounds? No one will post anything official from VISA and most processors are posting their interpretations of the new VISA regs. I don't think you can sue someone over an opinion. Has anyone tried to contact VISA directly. Several thousand of us call them Monday and we might get an answer. Any body got their number? __________________ kevinl

10-05-2002, 03:52 PM	#28
mistressofnite Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 64	Ok, so I opt out of using VISA with ccbill/ibill, what's left? Mastercard? WEb900? Echecks? I hate echecks, those were returned/refunded more than cc's.

10-05-2002, 04:22 PM	#30
ColKurtz So Fucking Banned Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Cambodia Posts: 596	But lets say you decide to go with one of these "light" options where you just take mastercard and not visa. What happens to all your previous reccurrings from visa. Are the processors going to spend hours of time going through all your reccurrings and credit any past visa signups? That seems like an administrative nightmare and would be shitty if that happens.

10-05-2002, 05:06 PM	#33
Socks Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2002 Location: Toronto Posts: 8,475	Could Visa be violating international law by unfairly treating international webmasters who rely on them to do business?

10-05-2002, 05:13 PM	#34
Scootermuze Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 4,513	Has anyone checked the terms that applied when initially signing up with Visa? You associated yourself with them under those circumstances.. Now they are going to change terms for existing accounts.. Might be some technical foul you can dig up...

10-05-2002, 05:18 PM	#36
jimmyf OU812 Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: California Posts: 12,651	Maybe the EU will tell Visa... You can't do business any longer in Europe with these Reg.'s... Which could happen but not likly. The reason is it's not going to be just the Porn business.. it's going to be ALL high risk business's... __________________ Epic CashEpic Cash works for me Solar Cash Paysite Plugin Gallery of the day freesites,POTD,Gallery generator with free hosting

10-05-2002, 05:19 PM	#37
.:Frog:. Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: ~ C A N A D A ~ Posts: 2,123	Don't accept CC if you have a problem. There is more then 1 way to receive payment. __________________ <a href="http://www.pornopayouts.com/?rid=pp3076">PornoPayouts</a> Tons of Hosted Galleries.