My First Lawsuit.... diary of a person fucked over by a monopoly

[sonofsam]

Okay... so here goes....the insurance in bc,canada ... is icbc... you have no choice but to go with icbc... if you wan't your car on the road.... you HAVE to use them....

back in september..... i changed my address and bank account information to my new address and bank account etc at the autoplan center.... everything is fine... december rolls around... and my car gets stolen.. ( 97 prelude ) .. shitty deal but i call icbc.. and guess what... my theft coverage has been cancelled because of missed payments.... why are there missed payments? because the autoplan center is fucking retarded and fucked up when updating my account information.. so this time they were trying to pull money out of my old account and sending the missed payment letters to my old house ( which the people don't even inform of us mail ) now in my contract with the insurance company it states that they cannot modify my insurance policy without a signature from me... or a sheriff siezing my plates.... none of which happened....

so i talk to icbc... and they pretty much tell me to go fuck myself and call me a liar saying i didn't pay for my insurance.... 450bucks a month was my insurance also.... now at this point i'm really upset because they basically tell me i wont even get paid for my car.... and they are calling me a liar saying i didn't update my information..

they tell me to get proof of them fucking up.... i.e. a signed letter from autoplan saying they messed up my account information update.. okay no problem....

i go into the autoplan center and they tell me they have a history of messing up account information because of old computers blah blah blah..... so i tell them to call my insurance company and tell them that etc.... they say okay..

weeks go bye.. i call icbc and check to see if they called or sent anything in... they didn't....

anyways now its april and JUST today the autoplan sent in a letter saying they fucked up and its their fault for messing up my account info... and what does icbc say? that they don't care... and they willl take a look at the letter when they have time... which he said may take a couple weeks to a couple months...

anyone ever sued your insurance company? do they usually try and settle when they know they are being taken to court.. especially when they know they're wrong and just trying to avoid having to pay?

[Alex]

My mom is a paraleagal who works in a firm dealing with car insurance.

From what she says. They usually settle outside before going to court when you are lawyerd up. But in this case it can be different.

[Sly]

I don't understand why there's only one car insurance company. We have about 50 billion it seems.

[sonofsam]

Originally Posted by Sly

I don't understand why there's only one car insurance company. We have about 50 billion it seems.

i know.... its fucking bullshit... almost every other province in canada has privatized insurance now... EXCEPT BC... and the proffit they pull in each year is CRAZY

[pornguy]

If there is a company in the US that will cover you, I sugguest that you use them.

[bringer]

if it happened to me id call the local news channel who'd do all the work for me and get me my $
too bad you're in canada, they'll piss on you and tell you its raining

[nofx]

move to amerikkka

it's lovely

[sonofsam]

this is hurting... i get the run around for 5 months.... and then they tell me to go fuck myself

[sherie]

Isn't ICBC government owned? If so good luck suing them!

[StuartD]

Originally Posted by Sly

I don't understand why there's only one car insurance company. We have about 50 billion it seems.

Yeah, it's down right stupid in BC... one company to rule all.

They pretty much own you if you ever want to insure your vehicle. And they can decide anything they want.

[Kassidy]

Yes, ICBC sux but you should have noticed it when 4 months went by without your payment coming out of your account, dontcha think?

[WarChild]

Originally Posted by sonofsam

i know.... its fucking bullshit... almost every other province in canada has privatized insurance now... EXCEPT BC... and the proffit they pull in each year is CRAZY

You're 18, right? Do you think ANY private insurer is going to give you a better rate than ICBC? Yes ICBC monopoly sucks, but at least you can get insurance. Private companies don't have to sell you insurance at all, where as ICBC does.

[crockett]

You are paying $450 bucks a month on insurance for a damn 97 honda prelude? Man take the missed payment money and buy another one for $1500 and cut your losses.

[sonofsam]

Originally Posted by Kassidy

Yes, ICBC sux but you should have noticed it when 4 months went by without your payment coming out of your account, dontcha think?

it was on auto withdrawl.... and i don't use bank accounts for anything else other then my insurance payments.... i just deposit my money and thats it....

edit : and also it shouldn't matter if i didn't notice it or not... my contract says i have to sign before they change my coverage.... and if i miss enough payments to warrant them changing my coverage a bailiff has to come to my house.. remove my plates from my car... and get a signature from me confirming i know i don't have insurance anymore.... they are 100% in the wrong

[Doctor Dre]

Originally Posted by sonofsam

it was on auto withdrawl.... and i don't use bank accounts for anything else other then my insurance payments.... i just deposit my money and thats it....

If you made the deposit every month like you should have, and show that to the judge ... that will help too

[sonofsam]

Originally Posted by Doctor Dre

If you made the deposit every month like you should have, and show that to the judge ... that will help too

i don't really doubt me winning the case, its just bullshit how they handle things...

[Sly]

Can somebody explain to me why there is only one insurance company? Is it a law?

[sonofsam]

Originally Posted by Sly

Can somebody explain to me why there is only one insurance company? Is it a law?

it is law... if you want your car on the road.. you HAVE to use icbc... also icbc controls the licencing shit as well

[WarChild]

Originally Posted by Sly

Can somebody explain to me why there is only one insurance company? Is it a law?

Provincial Monopoly. The Insurance Corporation of British Columbia (ICBC) insures everyone in BC. They can not charge you more money based on your age, number of seats in your car or otherwise. Collision and Theft insurance scale depending on the value of the vehicle, and no matter how many accidents you've had they can't deny you insurance as long as you're willing to pay the premium which gets higher and higher every accident you have.

[Spunky]

That fucking sucks..Good luck man..ICBC sucks ass but we are fucked out here

[sonofsam]

it would be a nice chunk of money also to invest... this is robbery... i can't wait for court...

i hope they don't actually want to go through with court then because it will take 1 year +

[WarChild]

Originally Posted by sonofsam

it would be a nice chunk of money also to invest... this is robbery... i can't wait for court...

i hope they don't actually want to go through with court then because it will take 1 year +

It's not robbery, and if it were that would be for the Police to deal with, not you.

Your car is probably worth less than $10,000. That means Small Claims Court, where you appear without lawyers. Your best option is to continue to be polite, jump their hoops. There are arbitration processes at ICBC and you can politely ask to be bumped up the ladder. Keep trying bud.

[sonofsam]

14,000 is the average price based on buysell.com and thats what icbc uses to pay customers..

http://www.buysell.com/results.asp?r...yword&rcan=NaN

so would that still be small claims court or something else?

[sonofsam]

Originally Posted by WarChild

It's not robbery, and if it were that would be for the Police to deal with, not you.

i didn't mean it like that when i said robbery..

[wargames]

haven't experiece it yet but i heard a llt about my friends and that really hurts.

[rambler]

Originally Posted by sonofsam

14,000 is the average price based on buysell.com and thats what icbc uses to pay customers..

http://www.buysell.com/results.asp?r...yword&rcan=NaN

so would that still be small claims court or something else?

They recently bumped up small claims to $25,000 from $10,000, so you're still in small claims, if it goes that far. Maybe you should call one of those legal society free (or $25) lawyers to talk to ICBC on your behalf. There is one in POCO his last name is Bledsoe.

[WarChild]

Originally Posted by sonofsam

14,000 is the average price based on buysell.com and thats what icbc uses to pay customers..

http://www.buysell.com/results.asp?r...yword&rcan=NaN

so would that still be small claims court or something else?

No, you're right. I believe the dollar value is $9999 and less for small claims.

The problem is, like you said the time involved and on top of it the cost of lawyers. Try going back to the Autoplan Agent as ask to speak with the Manager. Explain your problem to him politely and ask him to call ICBC directly while you are still there. Make him understand that this was their mistake, as they've admitted, and that you have no car now because of it.

[WarChild]

Originally Posted by rambler

They recently bumped up small claims to $25,000 from $10,000, so you're still in small claims, if it goes that far. Maybe you should call one of those legal society free (or $25) lawyers to talk to ICBC on your behalf. There is one in POCO his last name is Bledsoe.

$25,000 now? Wow. The things you miss when you're not in the Country.

[sonofsam]

Originally Posted by WarChild

No, you're right. I believe the dollar value is $9999 and less for small claims.

The problem is, like you said the time involved and on top of it the cost of lawyers. Try going back to the Autoplan Agent as ask to speak with the Manager. Explain your problem to him politely and ask him to call ICBC directly while you are still there. Make him understand that this was their mistake, as they've admitted, and that you have no car now because of it.

oh they already know... they already have taken full responsibility for it and even mailed icbc and faxed them, themselves...... i've also made it a point to make sure i keep my cool with them..

so i'm going to need a lawyer for sure if its not small claims court?

hrmm.. laywer fees etc would rack up a good portion of the claim... but if i win... are they obligated to pay my laywer fees etc? i've never dealt with a lawsuit before....

[sonofsam]

Originally Posted by rambler

They recently bumped up small claims to $25,000 from $10,000, so you're still in small claims, if it goes that far. Maybe you should call one of those legal society free (or $25) lawyers to talk to ICBC on your behalf. There is one in POCO his last name is Bledsoe.

will look into that, thanks

[sonofsam]

only on gfy can you come get advice this fast on how to deal with dead beat insurance companies lol

[rambler]

Have they recovered your car? If not, then one of the reasons ICBC s not paying is probably because you're under investigation for fraud.One of my friends (when I was younger)had a similiar problem with them.

[WarChild]

Originally Posted by sonofsam

will look into that, thanks

Yes, Rambler's advice is the very best in this thread. Look in to one of those small fee legal advice places. You'll get all your real options that way.

Be persistent with ICBC. I know they're a real bitch to deal with, but like you said it's the only option.

Ironically, you COULD have bought private insurance for theft and collision. The only ICBC insurance you are REQUIRED to carry is third party. The deeper irony is that the private insurance companies that are in BC either would not insure you or would not do it any cheaper than ICBC already was.

[BRISK]

$450 a month for a '97 prelude? You must have a history of accidents or something because that's a lot of money for insurance.

[iwantchixx]

brisk, he's 18. They really take advantage of people in that age demographic up here. My gf is 30 and I'm 26 and we pay 200 a month. it's rediculous. No accidents. But new drivers.

[WarChild]

Originally Posted by iwantchixx

brisk, he's 18. They really take advantage of people in that age demographic up here. My gf is 30 and I'm 26 and we pay 200 a month. it's rediculous. No accidents. But new drivers.

No, no no and no. ICBC is not allowed to discriminate based on age, sex, maritial status or otherwise. An 18year old with no surcharge pays the exact same ammount to insure a car as does a 40 year old with an equal level surcharge.

That's the up side of goverment run insurance company.

[sonofsam]

i had 1 accident when i fist got my licence when i was just before 17... but even before my accident i was paying nearly 300 for insurance...

my rates drop back to no surcharge in a couple of months...

[iwantchixx]

sam, I hate to say it but I doubt you'll beat the big bad insurance company. You'll prolly be better off just buying a new car out of your own pocket and hope they pay up.

[CoolE]

I hate to say it, but I don't think you have a case. The bottom line is it is YOUR responsibility to make sure your insurance is paid up - just because some third party, the "autoplan center" (whatever that is) screwed up your info doesn't relieve you of YOUR responsibilty to pay your insurance. I think you are screwed, I hate to say.

I think a judge would see it this way... "The bottom line is you didn't pay your insurance company and only one person in the world is ultimately responsible for making sure you pay your insurance - you."

What the hell is an "autoplan center" anyway? And why are they acting as a go-between you and your insurance company?

[SmokeyTheBear]

Originally Posted by CoolE

I hate to say it, but I don't think you have a case. The bottom line is it is YOUR responsibility to make sure your insurance is paid up - just because some third party, the "autoplan center" (whatever that is) screwed up your info doesn't relieve you of YOUR responsibilty to pay your insurance. I think you are screwed, I hate to say.

I think a judge would see it this way... "The bottom line is you didn't pay your insurance company and only one person in the world is ultimately responsible for making sure you pay your insurance - you."

What the hell is an "autoplan center" anyway? And why are they acting as a go-between you and your insurance company?

autplan is icbc, they are just the agents part of it..

The insurance is valid unless they remove the plates or inform you that your insurance is invalid.

If icbc had contacted you first , you would have owed them "back" insurance.

[CoolE]

Originally Posted by SmokeyTheBear

autplan is icbc, they are just the agents part of it..

I see. I see sonofsam's point then. It's strange that one arm of a bureaucracy would not would not accept responsibility for a fuckup by another arm of the same bureaucracy - but then again I guess that's what bureaucracies do.

I guess the lesson for all is get everything in writing always and save copies - even something as simple as the submission of an address change.

Good luck with it sonofsam, I hope it works out.

[sonofsam]

Originally Posted by CoolE

I see. I see sonofsam's point then. It's strange that one arm of a bureaucracy would not would not accept responsibility for a fuckup by another arm of the same bureaucracy - but then again I guess that's what bureaucracies do.

I guess the lesson for all is get everything in writing always and save copies - even something as simple as the submission of an address change.

Good luck with it sonofsam, I hope it works out.

thanks dude.... my responce to your above post though is.... it is my responsibility to put money into my bank account... its not my fault they fucked up and didn't withdraw from the right account....they fucked up updating my information... which was their responsibility.... when i set it up to auto withdraw from my bank account my only responsibility was to put money in that account.... i had no way of knowing the money wasn't reaching them as they fucked up updating my address and were sending letters to the wrong address...

[borked]

If you're paying $450 (US or Canadian? either way) for a 97 Prelude, it's daylight robbery - I read you were 18, so perhaps, but still. In your insurance options, can you not just opt for '3rd party' insurance, coverance Jo Smo if you hit him, but to hell with whatever happens to your car? These bare bones policies are the cheapest you'll get and I'd say for an 18 y/o around $200 max.

Car gets stolen - so what, buy a 'new' one with the $2-300/mo you saved with the bare bones policy.

[borked]

Originally Posted by sonofsam

14,000 is the average price based on buysell.com and thats what icbc uses to pay customers..

http://www.buysell.com/results.asp?r...yword&rcan=NaN

so would that still be small claims court or something else?

WTF
$14k for a 97 Prelude - you have got to be shitting me!
I only have a 99 Accord, but had it from new(ish) - it's only worth 3500 euro

[Kassidy]

I understand that the autoplan agent is the one that f'd up your information, but as far as ICBC knew, you had skipped town and closed your bank account. They're supposed to keep covering a person they can neither collect from, nor contact? Surely you can see this from their position as well; and I'm sure they deal with scammers every day and it's their policy to be suspicious.

If you really think this is worth fighting, get a lawyer to represent you...you can be certain they have a stable of lawyers just waiting to discredit you. Although, sometimes the best way to deal with these government agencies is to wait it out and let them deal with it in their own time frame (which is slllooow). At the very least, you should be getting a copy of your insurance agreement and read the fine print very carefully. I'm sure they have several clauses in there to protect themselves in situations like this that you didn't even realise you had agreed to.

Good luck.

[iwantchixx]

Insurance companies are getting out of hand. Check this out.

Today we get a letter from our home policy holder stating that they no longer cover for sewer backup but if we are willing to pay an extra $1 per year for every $1000 of coverage they will "somewhat" insure it. The company is totally taking us for a ride and we don't know what to do. They REFUSE to give us full rebuild coverage in the event of a fire or whatnot. Their excuse? It's our first home and we have no proof that the home has been updated since it was built in 1946. They want us to provide recips for the new roof, siding, plumping, windows and electrical in order to give us full rebuild coverage. Here's the funny part. The previous owner was insured with them for this home and had full rebuild value. It even states in the policy that all of those things have been updated. Not only that, they have evaluators that are supposed to come check out properties. We also showed them the home inspection report that PROVES the updates were done. For us to get receipts for all the updates is impossible as it was the previous owner's brother who did most of the work. The only receipt she was able to get us was the one for the new roof.
Another thing that pisses me off about them. The agent told us point blank "If your house burns down or your stuff is stolen we will NOT replace anything that cannot be bought at Wal-Mart."
WTF!@#!@$ So if my home theater is stolen? They will only replace with a Wal-Mart special. If my guitar equipment is stolen (which will soon include a custom hand built jtm-45) they won't replace it or pay the value of it. if my computer equipment is stolen they'll replace it with a cheap Wal-Mart clone. It doesn't say it in the policy though but if he's saying it you can bet that's what they'll do.
Changing insurance companies is not something we can really look into neither. Since we are new home owners nobody would cover us and the ones that will will charge us an arm and a leg to get an adjuster to come and check the place out.
So to recap. The fact that they gave full coverage tot he previous owner, having it on file that everything was updated, having me put a fully detailed home inspection report explaining the updates in front of them was all not enough to give us full rebuild value.

Now on to car insurance. Our car insurance company has been pretty good to us except for the first broker who treated me like a child and called me up on my cell telling me I'm acting like a child because they had to wait to get certain documents from young-drivers who happened to be closed on the day they wanted the documents. After all that was dealt with we got a new broker who actually treated us with respect and 4 months after we got the new car and prices went up to 262 a month we got a nice little letter from them informing us that we only have to pay $202 for the rest of the policy period. That's pretty sweet! So I can't really complain too much although $202 a month is still a bit high.
Then there's my GF's friend who was paying $100 a month for her insurance. She moved, called them up and gave them her new address and 10 minutes later they called her back saying that because she moved her premium increased to $179 a month. She moved exactly 1km further away from work than her previous place. Since they base rates heavily on how far you have to drive to work I find that ridiculous to increase it by $79 for ONE extra kilometer. it's especially ridiculous when you factor in that we live roughly 10km away from my GF's work which happens to be the same building that her friend works in.

Moral of the story? insurance companies are NOT there to protect you nor to provide a service to you but only to EXTORT money from you and get away with not being liable nor covering what you are insuring.
Oh, if you have a BBQ on your deck in our municipality?? Don't expect to get full coverage either. ONE... I repeat. OOOONNNNEEEEEEE propane tank caught fire in the city here 3 years ago which happened to be the user's fault and we all have to suffer from it.


So a great big heart felt FUCK YOU to insurance companies for extorting money out of us all and getting away with it.

[sonofsam]

Originally Posted by borked

WTF
$14k for a 97 Prelude - you have got to be shitting me!
I only have a 99 Accord, but had it from new(ish) - it's only worth 3500 euro

14k canadian....

so let me see.. thats like.. 200 USD

[BradM]

ICBC sucks. I totalled my jeep a couple years ago and they offered me $2,500
I laughed and provided equal value vehicles, recepts etc and got 3x that amount. Bunch of cheating lying cvnts.

Oh right that's because they are the canadian government.

[wedouglas]

450 a month bahahaha. you have a DUI or two? i have a 2002 acura and pay like 150

[reynold]

That's fucked up.