Paraskass

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painintheass

Oh and for the information: My last message was for laughter only.

painintheass

I attended Simon Fraser university and lived in North Vancouver for 4 years. Is that west enough?

But once again from my list of the 8 most common attacks made by federalists in this post we see once again....



You guys are soooooo Un-origional!

tedwinters

Well, as I said, go 1 point at a time!!!!
To refute some of your points:
-Here's the thing, if you vote separatist, nobody knows which way it'll go, separatism DOES have chance to be even WORSE that status quo... (As I FIRMLY believe, and have explained in MANY other posts...)
In fact, instead of wasting money on referendums, political bullying, etc, the separatists should be donating money to rural Quebec... It would definately be a better expenditure of money, and would probably swing more votes from the federalists...
Additionally, as other federalists mentioned, it's just not feasible to build a $100 million dollar hospital in the middle of rural Quebec - this is something that tax dollars alone can't manage... For example, look at the plights of various First Nations bands in Alberta - upon turning 18, many indians are given $100,000 to do with as they wish..
In addition to this, they're provided with free university, highly subsidized farming and vehicle purchasing, yet conditions are still abyssmal...
Chances are, separatism would lead to a worsening of conditions in rural Quebec, in the very least, for the next 10-15 years as the entire political climate is changed...

Right above, in your first post, you mentioned how you wanted things to change for rural Quebec.... Yet, why aren't you there filming your hardcore porn??? What you just mentioned is circular logic.... Two counter-intuitive points that seemingly negate each other...

I guess I'll put it this way... Instead of filming in Rural Quebec, where you'd be contributing to the local economy, and helping out in your own way, you'd rather have Montreal suffer economically so that you can film here, and furthur ignore the plights of your neighbours???
I do agree that voting for separatism will probably lead to you having cheaper production costs... but then I wonder why you don't go into the rural areas, and get even LOWER production costs... instead of hurting millions of people, help thousands by infusing money into their failed economy...

now... what other points would you like me to try and refute.. feel free to comment on what I've posted..

painintheass

When you hunt for your food, cut wood for your heat, have your children in a kitchen and no electricty...

What is worse? Are these people going to loose the dirt under their feet?

It has been 10 years since the last referendum. Where is the change?
It has been years and decades of peace. Where is the change?

And when the referendum talk begins. I don't hear the federalists saying to the people. "How about instead of having this vote, why don't we use the money instead to build a new hospital.. Or fund apprentiship programs. etc etc"

You want the referendums to stop. Give an alternative.

1. I do whenever possible.
2. It's obvious your not a pornographer.

The biggest probleme to any pornographer is finding talent. If there was enough girls and guys that could get wood. I would be there now.

3. And as I have always made it clear. There is me the pornographer/capitalist... And me the person.

I do not let my personal feelings interfere with what I do.

Since my productions put food on my table, pays for a private education for my two sons in france, employs others, etc. It takes priority.

As a pornographer.... I'm a machine, no feelings, no emotions, etc. It's all strictly business.

On the other hand what I do with the money I earn is strictly personal.

CDSmith

But....on so many points you really don't know what you're talking about.

And, what could be so wrong about being happy with the now THREE multi-page threads you've created, endlessly harping about this shit, and just shutting up about this separatist shit for a while and give your lips a rest? Really, is that asking too much? The argument is going in circles, it has always gone in circles, and if your mindless oblivious persistence is any indication it like will always BE going in circles. How much board blabbering do you intend to do on this subject?

Surely your uber-educated brainium can process that, no?

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CDSmith

You see no choice. I see plenty choice.

You=negative. Me=positive.

Therefore our two respective sides will very likely never fully agree. Is the @yahoo.com email link in your sig at least getting some clicks?

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tedwinters

Actually, pretty much every federalist here has said the same thing.. They all complain about the waste of money going towards referendums, or trying to prevent Quebec from separate...
If there was no separatist feeling, then money could be diverted for rural projects...


Well, I guess that was besides the point then.. and no, I'm not a pornographer, I'm a marketer/analyst... Still, based on what I've seen in small towns, it should be incredibly easy to find female talent... I was at a dinner recently with the owner of a strip club, and he was mentioning how most of his dancers originate from small towns - they'll do anything to get out of there... I'd imagine porn would work the same way...

Yes, and you the capitalist and you the person have two different, conflicting views...

As I said earlier, as a 'person', you're upset with how rural Quebec is treated, but as a 'pornographer', you couldn't give a shit...
Now, when you argue here, you compain that nobody else does anything for rural quebec, when you youself won't do anything...

And then you go on to say that Quebec should especially separate because professionally, it will be better for you....
(And then I wonder why you don't go find content in already impoverished areas... Why would you wish Canada to fall, when you're already shooting content in Russia???)

In fact, the more I think of it, the more your rural argument is useless until you actually pick a side on the economic success of a separated Quebec...
If you agree that the economy will be hurt, then obviously, rural Quebec will be hurt.....

SexyScribe

calisse, tu m'fais peur.

Howzabout I post a picture of Marc Lepine and point to you as one of the causes for his behavior? I'm sure he has detailed and perfectly rationale explanations, much like yourself.

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skillfull

i dont even see the point to answer to that :P

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iwantchixx

You're an idiot, you do need us. Who would pay your welfare checks, hospital bill,s day care, public services, money for job creation etc etc if you left Canada? The onyl ones who fell into propoganda are people like you believing what your corrupt leaders tell you to believe.

Companies leave because there's no money to be mad ein quebec when all the workforce spends their time bitching, whining and making unrealistic demands.

Somewhat the same thing that your people are doing now with Canada, bitching, whining and making unrealistic demands.

Calling English canada jjealous of you is like saying someone is jealous of the person with dog shit on their nose.

Stop whining like a typical seperatist and go celebrate your culture......






.... which happens to involve cashing your UI/Welfare check, spending half of iit on booze and car parts for that rust bucket on your front lawn, sitting around on the front porch getting drunk later on that night and sobbing because you have no work when you could have easily enough gotten an education and moved to where work exists or your people could have abnded together, stopped whining and created an industry for themselves to suppoort you with jobs longer than 6 months so youc an take 6 months off a year to drink and sob and whine.

Face it, you're people will NEVER survive on their own. Prety bad when eastern Gaspe is only getting an economic boom because an American energy company came in and are putting up 1000's of windmills... thus, creating jobs.

yeah, you don't need anyone.

painintheass

You know what....
English is not my first language but I appear to have a better understanding and comprehension than you do.

My statements are linear, consitant and only involved these two points.

1. On a personal level I only care about rural quebec. And that it can not get worse under seperatism because you can not **take away something from those that have nothing.**

2. As a pornographer I stand to benefit and gain financially.

You quoted the point I made about saying that federalists attack saying "2. Shut up you don't know what your talking about!"

And then you do it again. I'm not the one making this argument circular. I admit to reiterating because people like you seem to have a complete inablility to comprehend my two above points.

Unless you are a moderator or I have made a derogatory comment against you personally, this is a forum where I can say everything I want about anything I want.

If you don't like my opinions, the topic of the thread, etc.

SVP...
PUT ME ON YOUR IGNORE LIST.
STAY OUT OF THREADS ABOUT QUEBEC SEPERATION

Surely your inferior federalist brainium can process that, no?

Otherwise, I'm going to continue to expose your babble to prove what a gross tête you are. And enjoy every moment of it.

painintheass

I'm just going to have to blantly disagree with you. There has never been a federalist politician that has offered quebec the option of NOT having a referendum in exchange for a rural project.

And as I said, it has been 10 years since the last referendum.
10 years without worry about seperation.
We even have a federalist in provincial goverment.

Where is the rural projects?

Saying that the reason there are so few because referendums cost money is just a federalist excuse.

Lets make a deal. I won't pretend to know your job and you don't pretend to know mine.

Suffice it to say...

If finding girls in rural areas is NOT easy. The venue for them to thrive just isn't there and the support facilities for me to film is often difficult.

And on that fact.... I also stated that I DO film in rural quebec whenever possible. The people from my community know what I do and keep their eyes open for me.

I shoot in russia because there is support facilites. IE: I have safe locations to film in, agents who supply me with girls, studs, viagara, etc etc.

And I don't have to commute with a ton of camera equipment for 15 hours from the airport to entre a rural area where I MIGHT find 2 decent girls.

I go to russia I film a bunch of women and they do everything and anything. The product sells very well because they are "RUSSIAN" girls. And my japanese clients just love them.

As for the pornographer me vs. personal me.

I have said this many times. All of us have a primary concern to look out for ourself first.

My work pays the bills, fills my refridgerator, pays for education of my two sons, etc.

How I make my money is just a matter of fact and business. There is no room for personal feelings.

What I do with my money is very personal. Suffice it to say, my prosperity benefits those I care about the most. And that include my friends in rural quebec.

CDSmith

Painintheneck.... holy shit woman.

My point was, in the past two weeks you have made now THREE threads and maybe others that I did not see on this subject, all of those three went multi-pages, on and on, round and round... my only question was "when is enough enough" for you?

About your two points: I could care less really. For one thing I have put forth and also addressed such points in my previous posts on these threads. I've said about all I feel is necessary to say on this issue, and am left wondering what part of what was posted wasn't enough for you?

Secondly, I watched as your demeanor went from being tacitly undecided and open-minded to *surprise* decidedly close-minded and 110% separatist, and it was at that point I realized that you were nothing more than a wolf in sheep's clothing, probably just testing the waters. Okay, whatever turns your crank I say.

HOWEVER, on your other point, the one about rural Quebec....... so what??! Do you think we have great rural facilities out here? We have farms and hudderites out here, and small towns. People have to sometimes drive a long way to get medical help here too. People have to bitch and moan here too about schools and funding and road conditions. There are several large ruran communities in Manitoba that are Icelandic, Germanic, Ukrainian, and several others as well, and they all seem happy enough to work together to build up their respective communities. They have well-advertised festivals every year and community events that draw crowds and make money, and the one thing you DON'T see them grumbling about is SEPARATING FROM CANADA.

For fuck sakes woman get your head right out of your ass, I'm begging you.

And again, for the third or is it the fourth time now? I forget.... anyway I'll say it again... I find it both odd and amusing that every time the government hits a bump in the road you separatists start up this bullshit, like a bunch of opportunists lying in wait. As far as I and hopefully a lot of my fellow Canadians go, the answer is still no, there will be no 3rd referendum. Period.

Deal with it.

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RawAlex

painintheass: If you paid attention to Quebec over the last 20 years, you would know EXACTLY where those projects are:

There are gone, money spent in the past to appease potential seperatist voters. The PQ is world famous for spending lavishly to attract business to quebec and often to keep it in quebec. The "cite du commerce electronique" in downtown montreal is an example, the PQ gave huge grants (hundreds of millions) to companies to move there, often to companies ALREADY IN QUEBEC. Huge stacks of cash spent to keep the umeployment rate from reaching a natural 10+% for the whole province.

Billions of dollars more spent duplicating services offered by the federal government. Instead of participating in the systems of the federation, the quebec governments since early 70s have spent like drunk sailors trying to duplicate every step of the federal process from their own pockets. This leads to tens of thousands more functionaires, tons more paper for business and individuals to run through each year (why the fuck we do two different income tax reports is beyond me!), and the income all used to support the stupid functionaire machine. Every step of the way PQ tried hard as hell to make quebec life soft and good, mortaging the future stealing from peter to pay paul, and generally leaving quebec to be one of the most bloated and wasteful functionaire filled messes in the universe. I am sure there are more effecient communist countries out there!

Every new functionaire, every new government department, every new "etude sur la marche futur de un quebec independant" steals money from the regions.

Honestly, the regions also suffer greatly from too much government assistance. Keeping certain plants / factories / mines whatever in business by propping them up with millions of quebec government money, only to have them fold 2 or 3 years later because they truly are losing their ass isn't helping. People from these areas need to realize that there are no jobs, no chance for jobs, no future - move to where you have a future or quit bitching that nobody is sending you a check to sit and watch the trees grow. The quebec government has spend billions upon untold billions tying to support the regions in unnatural ways, attempting to force commerce into areas that it just won't work in.

The actions of successive seperatist governments, language laws, language police, endless court battles, divisive acts, and endless back biting and infighting has scared business away. When you scare business away, you scare the money away. Less money in the centers means less money for the goverment to toss out to the regions. You can't spend what you don't have (or at least there is a limit before you can't issue any more bonds to borrow from).

Late 60s early 70s Montreal and Toronto were similar size cities. Quebec went to "language police", seperation votes, and fear mongering, and Toronto went to work.

The results are plain to be seen by the naked eye. Quebec fucked itself, it fucked it's regions and shouldn't blame anyone else but the fuckers that were in charge when it happened. Blaming federalism for problems in the regions is the ultimate passing of the buck and shifting of blame. Quebec did it to itself, and needs to admit it. Admitting you have a problem is the first step to fixing it.

Alex

painintheass

If you do not like the topic then why do you participate in it?

If I read past the the fact that the quebecois seperatists have been called names, told to shut up, threaten with civil conflict, accept what it given and be thankful, etc etc etc.

I will find federalist financial quotes of how much worse we are going to be with out them.

I'll go back to my origional stand. Bilingualism for EVERYONE! English and Quebecois must learn each other's langages. Start the schools with classes taught using only the french language in the morning and english in the afternoon... Or vice versa.

C'est drole! Wolf in sheep's clothing on a forum board. Am I secretly trying to solicit adolescent canadian anglophones to attack their federalist parents in their sleep? You caught me... I'm trying to raise an army. Gofuckyourself forum is the major part of my diabolic plan to manufacture cheap pornography.

It is called, "choosing a side or forming an opinion." And for the record, I'm not a seperatist. I'm just an alley.

You have never been in the regions I speak of and have no clue of how bad it is. As I stated before and you fail to comprehend. Just over 10 years ago the federal goverment un-officially acknowledged the state and conditions of parts of rural quebec.

Would it help you to know that again "un-officially" federal goverment agreed that the parts of rural quebec I am speaking have the worst standard of living north america?

This is the probleme. People, like yourself, are believing the little farms and rural areas they are familiar are similar to rural quebec. **They are not**

CDSmith

Why do you answer a question with a question?

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CDSmith

I never threatened anyone with civil conflict, you are for some odd yet vaguely familiar reason twisting things. What I said was that it may very likely COME to a military intervention to calm you down, and I used the USA as a prime example. I said that if half the population of a US state were to decide to secede from the union, old Bush would have the national guard in there so fast your ancestors would shit in their graves.

Clear enough or should I dumb it down further for you?

If it quacks like a duck, walks like a duck......

Since you don't specifically know WHAT regions I've been to you are basically talking straight out of your ass, again I might add. Why do you choose to talk out of your ass like this? I really can't figure you separatists out. You all think you have it figured out, and you so obviously don't. It's the part where you so irrationally refuse to listen to sound reason that is the most annoying thing about you though, and there have been several such posts on your threads.

I'm not saying I agree fully with you, because there are many rural and even urban areas of Canada that are poor past the point of being destitute.... but if you truly stand by your conviction on this then why not focus the separatist resources on solving the problem rather that spending endless amounts of cash, time and resources towards splitting up the country?

This is where your argument falls far short.

Look, maybe this will help you see where I'm coming from.... at the end of the day when all is said and done, I am hoping that most of us including those in Quebec see it as I do, that being the bottom line that we do not want Canada broken up into pieces.

While other countries and continents are uniting and working together to grow stronger (European union for example), the separatist movement in Canada seems bent on doing the exact opposite. It's a shame really, and it so doesn't have to be. Separate, and your share of the national debt coupled with all the economic scenarios mentioned previous will serve to keep your people exactly where they are, and possibly even worse-off than ever. And yes, it CAN get worse for those people.

Stay in Canada and all those resources currently being devoted to separatism could be directed to help the people of rural Quebec. If done through proper channels I am sure that the rest of Canada wouldn't mind pitching in to help as well, as long as there is no more talk of separatism. Fuck, if that would happen I myself would write a letter to Ottawa on your behalf, and I would use my local web forum to prompt other Canadians to do the same.

That's a promise.

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TTiger

criss encore un tread sur le criss de souveraineté que vous n'aurez jamais..
je ne veut pas que le quebec devienne un republique socialiste avec bernard premier comme roi et maitre de sadestiner ou la tres grosse truie a maroie!
harper au federal, dumont au provincial et jeff fillion comme maire de quebec ca serais le BEST

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painintheass

You see that is the probleme. I was born and spent much of my life in one of these rural areas. I have never seen a "rural project." Developed rural areas like the gaspesie get projects.

But for the area I lived in.... I just like to see one project. A paved road constructed. Not just an old loggers road that hasn't had a vehicle driven on it in 60 years.

But this is down to my origional statements and why I am only an ALLEY of seperatism not an actual seperatist.

There are really only two areas the province or federal goverment cares about. Quebec and Montreal.

Remember my only two points are:

1. In rural quebec seperatism can not make conditions worse for those that have nothing. Therefore, nothing to loose and perhaps... perhaps.... perhaps something to gain. ***If serperatism does not provide for these areas. They have lost nothing.***

2. If the economy does collapse under seperatism. I will profit.

Here is the explanation for my decision to support seperatism.

I do not care what happens to anglophone canada and I do not care what happens to montreal or quebec. I only care about the people I love. And if I profit more, then I will provide for them directly. I do not require the wait for a goverment project.

Sigh.....
Languge police, sign laws, goverment spending, etc. Federal goverment does stupid things too.

I have friends in ontario that despite good education can not get good paying jobs because they are white males. CPP is going to be gone before any Generation X'r can claim it... etc etc. The list of goverment stupidity is long. Federal, provincial and even seperatists are all idiots.

**But when I was still just an "UN-DECIDED" on which side I would support in this debate I stated that I believed all the goverments are just villians looking to put money in the pockets of themself and friends.***

Again this explains the logic behind my 2 statements. I'm just looking out for myself and those I am concern with. And all of my other actions and photo posting is just laughter on my part. I often need a break from editing video footage.


(Although not part of this conversation. Allow me to write for the record, that I believe the only reason ontario and alberta do better than most provinces is because of their relations with the united states.)

CDSmith

All I can say is, some of you down east better start doing your homework on Harper's politics, because if he gets elected we're all in for a rude awakening.

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painintheass

At last we have a point to agree on. He will just force amercan take over down all our throats. Quebec'r and Canadian alike will be second class citizens.

And I won't be able to get cheap boy-girl sex scenes because we will most likely be using the american dollar.

The Sultan Of Smut

Unless you're referring to reservations (which are under federal jurisdiction) then all other poor rural areas of Quebec are the responsibility of the province. In the past 35 years which have seen quite a few PQ governments why hasn't the situation been remedied? Is it because the federal leeches are taking too much money? No. Quebec receives more money from the federal government than it transfers to it. Then what is it? What's the excuse?

Another point mentioned frequently is that Quebec will have to form it's own currency. This is not true. Any country in the world can use any other countries' currency. Separatists talk about a sovereign Quebec having a partnership with Canada (providing the rest of the country doesn't partion it self into sovereign regions) and this will likely happen. However, the transfer payments will stop and be replaced with an assistance program (normally reserved for third world countries).

Life in Quebec will not be better but if it's what the majority want then so be it.

The Sultan Of Smut

Harper spent quite a few years protecting civil liberties in Canada before he joined the Reform party. He also voted in favor of increased spending for health care and education which is what he claimed he was in favor of in the last election. Oh ya, he was lying and has a 'hidden agenda' or so the propagandists said. Funny that there was never any speculation as to what exactly that hidden agenda was...

That being said I'm probably not going to vote for the CCs and probably give my vote to the Green party. They actually seem to be trying.

CDSmith

Harper hangs with the crowd that whispers loudly about privatizing our health care system "more like the American model"..... not something I'm wiling to support at all. Also, a good % of the PC are reformists who have rejoined the ranks to further party solidarity..... but lest we forget they are still reformists. Let's not go down that road. And before you say it, I've admitted that some of their policies were attractive, but some were downright scary.

Harper supported the war in Iraq. Had he been in power we very likely would have sent our kids over there. I am quite sure he would have embraced Bush's missile defense plan as well. Now, weather I support certain American policies or not, I have never been for Canada moving towards Americanizing further than we already are.

Some of what the PC's propose is good, but with them there is always that "but"..... and their past history a la Mulrooney isn't helping their cause either.

Possibly the Green party will rise from 5 to a full 7 or 8 percent of the popular vote over this scandal. We'll see in the near future I'm sure.

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The Sultan Of Smut

Harper would have sent troops but if Paul Martin was Prime Minister he would have sent troops to Iraq as well. Cretien was such a pussy and changed his position about sending troops 3 times as I recall - right after public opinion polls. Thankfully he stumbled on the right choice. Watching polls to help you understand the feelings of Canadians is one thing but governing by them is another.

The Sultan Of Smut

Great quote!

skillfull

the exode of the english canadians elite started in the 20s..
And the difference is due more to federal politic favoring Ontario than any others things

separation politic is more a consequence to that than a reason :P

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The Sultan Of Smut

I remember seeing a picture from the 60's of a pig dressed in a suit that was supposed to represent English Canada standing over a crowd of workers that was supposed to represent Quebecers. hmmmm...

painintheass

Well I think this...
Montreal - Quebec = Corporate campaign donations IE: $
Rural areas (not struggling to survive) = Easy to get votes
Substandard existance rural areas = not priority -Too few - No vote power

I agree... if the majority want it. It must be made so.

RawAlex

Skillfull, sorry, but if you remove the politics of language, if you remove the threat of seperations from the picture, there is no valid reason why Montreal should be any worse off today than Toronto.

The numbers were similar up to the 70s... suddenly, things changed. That change lowered Montreal (and as a result all of quebec) into an economic cesspool that we are still not out of. Toronto grows and montreal debates, pontificates, and prepares yet again for a trip through the seperation grinder. Until the seperatists start accepting "no means no", there will always be an ax hanging over the head of the province... and business people will always be leery of coming near us (plus all the extra expense to translate materials to another language for such a small market - yes, small! You can get more potential customers for a product opening in New York, Los Angeles or many other american cities when compared to ALL of Quebec. You really think we are that important a market? Nope).

painintheass, honestly, people who like THAT rural in Quebec have chosen a lifestyle and shouldn't bitch when civilization isn't beating a path to their doors. It isn't economically feasable to go into the brush and tend to the needs of each individual who chooses to live alone. That is a lifestyle choice that seperation or lack theirof won't change, except that what money they get will be worth a bunch less, and the one poorer quebec government won't even have the money to pave that road. Remote and rural areas are LAST on the list... and when money is short, the list never makes it that far. Choosing to move to a list with less money is, well, suicide.

Alex

ElvisManson

I know this article is a long read for most people here...but it worth the time.

http://tape.atspace.com/t-behind.html

Consternation rumbled across the country like an approaching thunderhead. For aboriginal leaders, one of their worst nightmares appeared about to come true. Two weeks before last June's federal election, pollsters were suddenly predicting that Conservative leader Stephen Harper might pull off an upset and form the next government. What worried many in First Nations' circles was not Harper himself, but the man poised to become the real power behind his prime ministerial throne: his national campaign director Tom Flanagan, a U.S.-born professor of political science at the University of Calgary.

painintheass

Without a doubt. I can honestly say that I have never been so insulted. And I am extremly hard to to insult.

Guess what....

After having read you comment about it being a "LIFESTYLE" choice. I want seperation now more than ever!!! And if there is anything I can do to help it along I will. Hell maybe I will make a fake video that implicates the PM directly in the sponsorship scandal and release it days before the election. There must be something I can do to help the seperatist side more.

Before I was simply a person that would exercise my right to vote in a referendum and monopolize on the situation if I could.

But now I want the economy to collapse and see the entire damn country suffer. I'm going to talk all my friends and everyone I know into saying yes! In fact I'm going to join the pq and I will lobby and do everything I can.

Seperation may not solve the problemes but at least they will be OUR problemes for once and for all. The false hope of someone comming to help wil be over.

Lifestyle choice...... Thank you for the commentary. It really open my eyes on how we are viewed.

RawAlex

painintheass, the problem isn't that you feel different in some way, but that you want to force everyone else to be different like you. If your town / city / village / tent / whatever it is just happens to be 300 miles from the nearest highway, don't complain about how hard it is to drive to walmart (that closed because some morons think stocking shelves at a discount store should somehow earn them enough to both buy a house and drive a new car - and support their whole family).

Choosing to live in a place that has limited services, or choosing to REMAIN in those places is a choice you make. It is a lifestyle thing, it is a way of life. Trust me, I have done the tour of the province completely, and I have seen the types of places you must surely be from (the places that think chimbougamou is the BIG CITY). It's nice, it's lovely it's peaceful - but there is no way you can tell me that you should get as much access to services up there that I do here in a city. Quite simply, it isn't economically feasable to do it.

When it does happen, it occurs at great expense. The collective governments spend millions of dollars each year running air ambulances from the north to the cities to treat sick and injured people. Why? Because millions is still way cheaper and way more effective than building a full hospital in every town, inlet, and hamlet. Seperating from Canada isn't suddenly going to make a hospital appear, nor will it suddenly make jobs, properity, and a videotron video club appear at the end of the block.

I have come to the conclusion that you are bitching mostly because you parents raised you in a place that had little, and now that you have seen the world, you feel somewhat slighted. Don't blame Canada for your personal issues.

Alex

CDSmith

Ding ding! That's what I'm talking about.

We have a winner.

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CDSmith

As usual, you entirely missed the point Alex made.

Lost in translation?

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CDSmith

Sounds about right to me.

Spot-on actually.

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CDSmith

Painintheass... tell me, if you are from one of those poor areas of Quebec, how come you aren't still there? I mean, how did you find a way to afford not only university education, but at a university 4,000 km away in Vancouver?

And,... how is it that YOU found a way out of those "poor rural areas"?


AND.... why are you so insulted when someone dares to suggest that staying in such a poor rural area is a choice rather than a prison sentence? Are you always insulted by the truth? No one is holding a gun to anyone's head to live in a shack at the end of a dirt road no matter where they are in Canada. In this country we have the freedom to go where we want, and it seems to me that YOU are the proof in that pudding. You got out.

Seems to me the only one who is insulting your people here is you. You obviously think they are too stupid to get themselves out of their lousy situation, that they all need some kind of government funding (we call it welfare) to flow their way before they have a chance at a better existance. Damn, you are harsh girl.

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iwantchixx

it's funny, Quebec is larger than NB, gets more federal handouts, yet is poorer than NB.

These backwoods logging camp houses don;t exists here that I know of. People got jobs, educations and built their own lives instead of crying for handouts and crying for a new government.


If you want a better life, earn it.

painintheass: You're totally brainwashed. You actually believe the lies you're told.

It's rather sad but it's how it is up there.

My GF's brother was born and raised in NB, then moved to Montreal when he was around 25. He then became another loud mouthed seperatist crying about the french in quebec getting nothing. So what did he do? He got a fucking job and bettered his situation. He made his money, moved back home, bought a house, car and has a family and is happy.

What does this tell you?

WORK FOR WHAT YOU WANT.

Work is everywhere. Those idiots that get menial factory jobs in remote locations crying cause they cna;t make enough and blaming Canada for it are full fledged idiots. You work in a factory, you don't rightfully EARN enough to buy a enw house, car and have the right to form unions to rape their companies and force them into closure.

if you live ina rural dump, do something about it. Either move, get an education and better your lives to stay there and cry that youc an;t find work because no companyw ants to move into a town where a bunch of loud mouthed seperatsists have too high of demands.

I hate to break it to you but every province has poor regions. Look at Campbelton, NB. There's fuck all there for jobs but people manage with what they get. They work hard and earn the little money they can bring in with minimum wage and overtime and with the economy being so poor there the cost of living is cheap. A person could buy a bungalow with finished basement for $30k in mint condition. So there's no reason to live like a 3rd world country.

People there that want more money and more for themselves get an education and move to moncton or SJ or Halifax and are happy. The rest that stay behind don't sit, wallow in their own self pitty and scream about seperating from the country because Ottowa doesn;t give them enough handouts not do they form unions and demand $20 an hour to be a stock boy at walmart...

Oh and gess what,,, Campelton is all quebecer frenchies. These one sjust have bettera ttitude about things and work for what theyw ant.

If people in rural quebec have to live in a barn and give birth ina ktichen it's THEIR OWN CHOICE.

They could move, get aducated and live happy.

And another thing, you lazy fuckheads are NOT leaving canada without paying back all hat funding from the federal government and paying off your share of the debt.

Fucking bunch of crybaby "gimme gimme gimme"'s

OVER OUR DEAD BODIES.

painintheass

Lifestyle choice.....

Let me walk you through the "lifestyle choice."

Let suppose Jean Luc grew up in an extreme impoverished area and when he has 20 years of age he decides to leave and go to montreal for a better lifestyle.

Ok, he walks out of the rural area and gets on a bus and 20 hours later is in montreal.

He needs a place to sleep and hotels are expensive. He hasn't saved much money so he decideds to look for an apartment.

1. First obsticle. He has never had to look for an apartment before or seen anyone do it. Minor probleme but annoying. He manages to find out that you search newspaper classifieds.

He finds a newspaper and gets set to search.

2. Second obsticle. He either can't or has marginal reading skills. Newspaper is useless. Not being able to read has made his life more difficult. Can't read a map, the road signs, write a resume, etc. This isn't looking too good for him now.

Ok, for the benefit of the argument he somehow manages to locate an available apartment and gets to go and see it.

3. Third obsticle. Landlord wants to run a credit application, references and the contact number of his employer. Well he has never had credit in his life, his references don't have a phone and he just got to montreal so he hasn't found a job yet.

Again for the benefit of this ilustration we can assume the landlord was gay and thought the rural boy was cute and rents it for 1 month.

He gets up early in the morning to find a job and starts to search.

4. Forth obsticle. Potential employer wants a resume. (If he can't read he can't write) The potential employer asks him what skills he has and unfortunately he doesn't have many useable. And even if he did, he can't think of them because he has no idea what he can bring to an employer's table.

None of this is working out for him. And by this point in time he is told to see help with goverment programs. Everyone has told him the goverment has things for people like him. But no one knows what part of the goverment does it.

Benefit for the argument he finds a priest that lends him a helping hand. Makes the phone calls on his behalf and sends him to the welfare office.

5. Fith obsticle. At the welfare office he admits he can't read or write. The kind lady wants to help. Afterall it is her job. So she starts by asking for a S.I.N. number and of course he doesn't have one. He also can't supply a health card and for people like him having certificate of live birth is a 50/50 gamble.

It was his lucky day, his mom gave him a piece of paper before he left home and it turns out to be a certificate of live birth. A doctor on a hunting trip birthed him in the kitchen. He proves beyond a doubt that he is canadien and entitled to services. He now has 30 to 60 days to get a S.I.N. number and welfare cuts him a cheque and enrolls him in the system.

His priest friend goes with him to the bank, shames the secretary into giving him an account and he deposits the cheque. Yioppie! He isn't homeless in montreal.

But it is far from over and even in the city his future is minimal at best. He needs to learn to read and write, learn social skills, job skills, how to not over spend, etc. What work he does find will be most likely low wage and his future will probably not include such things as a home of his own or a new car.

In years to come he will suffer from cultural shock, riddicule from people around because of his lack of social and intellectual sophistication. At lest back in the woods he was respected and loved by his peers and had a greater measure of dignity.

The above example I have ilustrated is a really a good cause scenario. For most it doesn't go this well.

I don't feel slighted towards anything I lived through. In fact I'm very open and blunt about my life because I'm one of the lucky few. But I have 2 older brothers, newphews and friends that still live in these conditions.

They were born into this type of life and as such were never given another option. Having understanding and empathy of that, it will be the proverbial very cold day in hell before I forget them and shrug everything off saying that this was their lifestyle choice.

But on that note I will caution you. My majors were psychology and biology and I don't think anyone would find it polite if I started to analyze their messages on this forum. They might be more reflective and revealing then you think.

Sin

Oh my god, are you trying to be proud of those pictures? Seriously??? *laughs* You're posting THOSE images, as if its something to be proud of???? *cracks up laughing SO hard* OMG, you've convinced me! I officially wish Quebec would seperate, because if THAT is what is going on in that province, I'm ashamed to call it a part of Canada...

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painintheass

My father died when I was young. My step-father was an Acadien lawyer from Moncton and every year he used come up to visit his sister in the nearest ville and then would go for a week of camping.

My mother and step-father met one day. 2 years later we moved to Moncton. I was lived in the remains of an old logging settlement that hadn't been used for almost 100 years. There was apx 30 families in my community.

You want to claim that the people that origionally came there made the decision for us? Hmmmm.... think about it logically before you do. Montreal or quebec is a long distance away and they came to this place because of work. And the work never disappears just over-night. Because if it did there would have been an exodus and this conversation wouldn't be occuring.

I didn't say anyone was stupid. In fact I have avoided the use of the derogatroy name calling. And any strong worded attacks I might have made have been at the issues and never on a personal level.

However, this is something you have engaged in with zeal.

tedwinters

When I was in Cancun, I was talking with one of my waitresses, and she mentioned that she moved to cancun from the deep south of Mexico, out of her little town, on a 22 hour bus ride, where she slept on the street for the first few weeks as she took manual jobs, eg: cooking, cleaning, etc...
until she was able to pay for her rent up front...
where there's a will, there's a way..
as for you analyzing our posts, unfortunately, an undergrad degree is something to laugh about... You learn very, very little with an undergrad degree.. A master's degree isn't much better.. It's not until you go through a 4 year PhD, then a postdoc, then work in the industry, that you start to actually learn...

Seriously, you make comments like that, and it just makes us laugh at you.. you sound less intelligent than you may actually be...

Now in regards to your feelings of separatism, I guess you may be in the 1% that separatism may benefit...
Let Quebec sink into a hellhole so that you can profit professionally...
To hell with your friends, neighbours, relatives, as long as you can hire models for a couple hundred less..... Just hope you won't need medical care (where you'll be treated by bottom rung doctors, since the better doctors will flee to anywhere with a higher standard of living...)

I guess really you've just shown how selfish and egotistical you are.... (being able to correctly analyze people after a few short years of school), plus significantly affecting the welfare of 8 million people in order to possibly benefit a couple thousand (and even then, only marginally, since as RawAlex stated (and you ignored) you can't build state of the art medical facilities to service small communities...

So, to restate, yeah.. I guess for you separatism works.. you thrive on other people's misery...

CDSmith

Yes, in a roundabout way yes you did. You think the people in your rural area are too stupid to get themselves a better life, you are angry that the federal government hasn't come in and saved them from poverty, and you think their only salvation will be for Quebec to separate so your people can have some sort of imagined chance at this better life you seek for them.

That's basically what you've been saying here.

Face it, you are a hypocrite.


And your above example is flawed as well. If your example guy "jean" were to apply for welfare in Montreal, then find one of the many government-funded Employment re-training/job re-entry programs available, he could get some education, even get his GED through those programs, FOR FREE, and then he would stand a real shot at getting a job. Those programs even have some small funds available to help people in other ways, like buying them some clothes to go on job interviews, transportation money, food allowances etc.

The opportunity is there for the taking, and that's just one example. How do I know this? Because years ago after my back injury I myself found and joined a job re-entry program. That's where I first learned how to turn a computer on and work the key thingies and click the interweb. That was back in '96, and since '99 I've been working for myself from home.

Where there's a will there's a way.


Stop crying about how much harder it is out your way. There are hard luck stories everywhere, and for every one there is another who climbed themselves out of the pit and became productive if not successful.

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painintheass

I based the above example on an actual person. (Whom I know personally) And for a 4th year social psychology course I wrote several papers on the subject. I covered both the aspects of the rural person and of those involved in the social mechanisms designed to aide them.

Before getting involved in porn and before my ex-husband I worked for the ontario woman's directorate. (Yes I am aware of the irony, etc. ) I was part of several initiatives to document the plight of impoverished refugee women in canada.

One of the biggest problemes facing them is the dis-belief they face from mainstream society. Society wants to believe that they are always in complete control of their situation and that with diligence, effort and hard work they can change their lives for the better.

In the real world..... It doesn't always happen like that.

And it isn't their fault because they are wiling to do everything and anything.

You see, this is a case of you are choosing to believe what you want and justify your decision that everyone can control what happens in their lives. Because believing otherwise fractures your reality and threatens the anchor points of your paradigm.

As such you would be forced to admit to yourself that you are not in control of every aspect of your life and can be subjected to events that you niether desire nor comprehend.

painintheass

So I guess this message can be put back to...

2. Shut up you don't know what your talking about!

And you really don't know what my complete education or experience is. Do you?

tedwinters

Nope, but with your numerous spelling mistakes, circular logic, and many more indications, it's quite obvious that your scholarly background is anything but strong....
Personally, my entire life seems to be filled with scholars right now...
The majority of the people I hang out with are my gf's friends - all PhD students at McGill...
I've seen what they do, and I compare them to what I learned in my undergrad and master's degrees, and it's nothing to be compared with...
My gf is actually doing her PhD in applied psychology, playing with all the fun little ERP machines, etc....
So yeah.. I guess I do know what I'm talking about when you claim to be able to analyze posts after an undergrad degree, regardless of papers written..
(I had economics papers published when I was an undergrad)...

It's funny how you resort to name calling when your argumentation fails.. I guess you can start by analyzing your own posts, with the abundance of size tags, colouring, etc..
followed by random picture posts to draw attention to yourself...

If you want to prove your scholastic abilities, provide me the name of the professor who was your advisor for your Master's thesis... If you don't have a Master's or a PhD, then yeah, you can't analyze anyone Otherwise, it'll put more credence in your arguments...

Now back on topic..
To clarify your stance:
I guess for you separatism works.. you thrive on other people's misery...
Isn't that exactly what you've been posting repeatedly?
regardless of how rural quebec is treated, you're still better off
The worse off montreal is, the better off you are...

Too bad you don't seem to understand that a damaged economy can affect more than your income...
It leads to worse schooling for your kids, worse medical care for your family, lower product selection at your local grocery, less entertainment, etc...

The Sultan Of Smut

Painintheass I don't know about that story of yours depicting everyone (or enough to characterise the areas this way) as illiterate. I've been to several reserves throughout southern Alberta during the summer when I was in university and the conditions were third world (well the Blood reserve anyway, second world at best for a few others). Everyone I came into contact with could read and write. Period. There were no exceptions. Now this is a bad example since the federal government gives money to the reserves and in your scenario the poor rural areas would be funded by the provincial government. I don't know why you fail to understand that a great deal of poverty in Quebec is the result of poor decisions by your leaders and not the rest of Canada.

Oh ya and I forgot to mention that the federal government gives a shit load of money to reserves so that everyone will have an opportunity to make a decent living for themselves but it's usually embezzled by the Band Councils. A lot of money goes to Quebec so as far as I can tell the only way that there should be conditions like the ones you described is if your leaders are fucking you. You might want to take a look at how the equalization payments are broken down per province.

http://www.fin.gc.ca/FEDPROV/eqpe.html

Saskatchewan needs less than 1/7th the amount that Quebec does per capita... wtf

painintheass

1. English is not my maternal language and I am not going to sit with an french-english dictionary, for dialog on a porn forum, to get each nuance correct. (I will admit I like english and I believe it is a more specific language.)

2. I have never made a singular circular statement. I have only made direct statements and reiterated myself.

Again those are:

A. I only care about rural quebec
B. I'm a pornographer and stand to benefit from a collapsed economy.

Reiteration and a circular argument are entirely two different things. A circular argument continues without a clear direction or point.

I have reiterated the above two statements several times and all my points and comments have been to support those two statements. Or directly to respond to comments of others.

3. I have never initiated any name calling. Yes I have posted photos but I was trying to make a more lite-hearted thread. Ok, the FLQ photo and the assult on the father and his child are antogonistic. (My name is painintheass...come to expect it) But if you can't at least smile at 3 naked men on a snowmobile then I pity you.

4. Although you are in the company of scholars you have admitted to not being one. It's like associating with auto-mechanics but still not being able to change your transmission oil. Perhaps in time you might learn a something from them but without direct study you will never be one of them.

5. I have NEVER made any argument about the economics. Save to say that if it does collapse I will most likely benefit and parts of rural quebec will be unaffected.

6. If you want to trade resumes and compare each other's background. Not a problem. I'm more than willing to meet with you in person and take this to a private level.

7. My perspective is different. Perhaps the sooner you comprehend this fact, the sooner you will cease claims that my arguments are circular.

You keep trying to debate me on economic factors and once again I have tried to not become engaged in those specifics and made it clear I don't give a shit about them.

tedwinters

And yet, as I've tried to illustrate, a collapsed economy DOES affect rural Quebec...
Rural Quebec is not quite the wasteland you make it out to be.. there are SOME nasty areas, but, the majority are not without electricity...
Now, a collapsed economy will directly affect what little earning power they have.....

Although you reiterate those same statements, you don't listen to our arguments and seldom try to refute them... We try to show you how a depressed economy will STILL hurt rural Quebec, especially those supported by farming, mining, etc...
It won't hurt the very BOTTOM of the barrel as much, but it will still hurt them

Nope, I have no PhD, Master's only... but I did spend entirely way too much time in school.. I believe I posted a link to my scholarly background...
Soooo.. if you really want a resume check, why not do it in public? If you want, I'll scan my degrees and certificates and post them on the weekend, or email them directly to you... But only if you do the same... (and prove that you have more than just undergrad degrees)

Yet the economic factors determine the way of life for everbody throughout the province, including those in the lower echelons of life..
We've shown that rural care is a purely provincial matter, and that the PQ doesn't provide a level adequate to you, yet, you think that if the PQ had complete control, with $4 billion less income each year, they'd be able to care for rural Quebec MORE??
Not likely.. if anything, rural Quebec would be hurt even more....