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150..........

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tedwinters

Wait, weren't you just saying that if Quebec separated, companies wouldn't want to spend the expense to move their companies?? I don't know what side you're on

If it wasn't you, it was NoCarrier or Skillful - the two big pro-separatists...

Eitherway, it sure looks like a sign of big changes and poverty that would happen once Quebec separates.. All the companies would move out, as we've been saying..

What really pisses me off, is Separatists believe that even with 51% of the vote, they can cause THIS much economic turmoil on everybody else, and shake things up..... We know for sure that it would be a HUGE expense..

The only way I see it, is if there's a STRONG desire THROUGHOUT the province..EG: 80%... When it's a narrow margin, you should stay with the status quo

painintheass

Hey guy,
A little known fact about Harper. HE CAN VOTE IN THE UNITED STATES! And I don't mean it metephorically. Literally he can vote.

Does anyone want someone that closely tied to the US political system running the country?

L0stMind

No, I don't like Harper.

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Thrawn$

he's also a bilderberger
look at the 4th pic
http://www.global-elite.org/modules....view_album.php

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directfiesta

No, not me ... But read what I said: Beaudoin threatened to move his plant ... Now, would he have done it... No. unless the federal gov would have showered him with more subvention that he gets now ...

Site note: My ex father-in-law, jewish, always said he would move out the next morning.... He is still here, his business has prospered and expanded ... His friends, that went to Toronto, half of them are back ....

read above. And don't forget why companies exists : for profit. They will stay in Quebec as long as they can make a buck, in or out of Canada.

We are governed now in Canada by a party that has less than 40% of the votes .... Provincial, municipal and so on ...
So , as an example, Bush in the US should not be president ??/ I think he brought a big turmoil no ???


Why 80%, why not 85% , or 32 % ... International laws exists on this matter. Consult them.

50% plus one ...

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But I can't figure out how he can breathe or type , at the same time ....

MetaMan

once again all you Quebecers stop whining, the WEST is now the movement, dont cry in 10 years when we stop giving you all our tax money.

Quebec will be so fucked it will not even be funny.

tedwinters

Precisely, and if Quebec is in turmoil, they'll move to where they can make more profit... Or, if turmoil LOOKS likely..
EG: Bank of Montreal uprooting it's head office and moving to Toronto at the possible signs of stress...

That's not quite the same amount of turmoil...
As for being governed by a party with less than 40%, this party doesn't cause major change..
In fact, life wouldn't be too much different if Conservatives were in power... We all know that...

Now, separating, that's a HUGE change that affects many, many, many lives directly....

I'm torn.. On one hand, I'd love Quebec to be out of Canada.. it means more money for the rest of us..
(Refer to my above stats of Quebec being 24% of Canada's, population, but only 21% of Canada's GDP)

On the otherhand, I know that it would cause a drastic change in the standard of living for the currently 51% of the population who do NOT want to separate...


Why 80%, why not 85% , or 32 % ... International laws exists on this matter. Consult them.

50% plus one ...[/QUOTE]

Rich

Separatists are hilarious. It's not that I don't respect your cause, I'm not the biggest fan of the Federal government and everyone's welcome to their own beliefs... it's that you're unbelievably unrealistic.

If you guys are serious, you'd better start building an army ASAP. Otherwise, you're not going to have much luck. Chretien was ready to send in the troops, I'm sure Martin would do the same. No Prime Minister is going to be the one to loose 1/8th of our territory because a couple million people want their own country. You're going to have to fight for it, because right now Quebec is a part of Canada whether you like it or not.

SexyScribe

I usually keep my nose out of these kinds of debates, having had my fill over the years as a native Montrealer.. but I take exception to being lumped into any stereotype, especially one as ignorant as this:

Tu ne me connais pas.

You have every right to express your own opinion and have it lambasted or applauded as responders see fit, which is everyone else's right. But when you presume to represent anyone else's opinion, you only make yourself look like an egomaniacal fool.

J'adore ma ville, et j'y tiens.

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CDSmith

Exactly.

Truthfully I am so close to having the "good riddance" mindset it's not even funny. The ONLY thing that keeps me maintaining the stance I've outlined is because I know that a secession of this magnitude would be damaging to Canada. Hugely, grossly, unfairly damaging. I don't think it, I know it. Since others here obviously don't know it or refuse to see it, an element of selfishness seems present, which will certainly come to light as they push their case further in the media.

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xxxdesign-net

uh... Alberta's wealth is mainly based on its oil production... Guess what will happen in a not so distant future... !?

Guess who's got the biggest supply of potable water ? Or which province has the biggest hydro-electricity potential ..? Both will be in HIGH demand in a not so distant future... and Quebec intend to increase the development those resources...


lol

BradM

I sure as shit don't. That man can NEVER get into office.

BradM

It will take hundreds of years for Alberta to run out of oil. You are obviously without foundation in your judgements.

xxxdesign-net

uh.. who talks about running out? ... Polluting cars powered by oil will be a thing of the past sooner than you think...

MetaMan

give it 10 years when Alberta stops supporting all the bums in Quebec, we will see how long you make it.

BradM

Thanks to the dumb fucking assclowns that signed Kyoto. What a bunch of douche bags. That treaty is the worst thing ever.

xxxdesign-net

Actually.. the earth is going down the shitter.. People forgot about the future generations (50, 100, 200+ years from now) and its about time responsible people act and do something..

project_naughty

Well I'm British and as your colonial master I sanction the use of force to get the Quebecois to shut the fuck up and recognise the superiority of the British descendants in Canada.

If needs be we will lend you Canadians one or two SAS soldiers. At the sight of them, the French-speaking people will surrender. Because that is what French people do.

RawAlex

Need a laugh? here is the question for the last time the seperatists lost... this is a heck of a question, I think I need a lawyer to even understand what they are talking about:

Why can't they just ask "do you want to stop be canadian and have quebec become it's own country?"

Who cheats who?

The seperatists lost twice already... when is NO not an answer?

Alex

directfiesta

Go invade the US ...

After all, they and France did kick your ass out .

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I know that Asspimple is stoopid ... As he says, it is a FACT !

But I can't figure out how he can breathe or type , at the same time ....

Redrob

I think that if you are a different ethnic group, you should have some measure of autonomy. I'm for giving Long Island to the Jews and New Jersey to the Blacks. Give Mississippi to the poor white trash, New Mexico to the Hispanics, and Texas to the Rednecks. I say to each their own. I would just choose to live elsewhere. Godspeed.

Phoenix

i am getting all warm and fuzy towards you after this thread

Vive le Canada

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Phoenix

It is a non issue to me...some of their leaders should disappear in the night

funny that when i lived with some young frnech guys from Quebec, none of them wanted to separate...and they didnt kow anyone their age that wanted to either.

maybe things have changed in the last 6 years or so...who fuckin cares...Separatists should be tried for treason..sometimes people have too many rights

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CDSmith

Funny you said that. Right after the 2nd referendum I travelled to Mexico. There was a flight from Montreal that arrived in Acapulco the same week as mine, and about 20 or 25 of them stayed at the same hotel as I did. I got to know them all while lounging around the pool and drinking in the bar, and not ONE of them supported secession. Not one.

All were quite friendly though, very easygoing and fun-loving, very good people to drink with, not to mention several of the girls were pretty hot. I'll even admit that I hooked up with one, a former dancer from Longeuille (sp?). Their group were comprised of people from all over Quebec, not just Montreal btw.

The only real assholes with attitude that I encountered down there were from Toronto, actually. A group of six guys from there tried to pick a fight with a francophone couple who were down there on their honeymoon of all things, saying "You fucking french frogs wann separate doncha?" and the like. I happened upon this scene taking place by the hotel pool at 2 am, and I promptly picked the biggest guy and told him to leave them alone or else.

There was no further bothering of the French people.

True story.

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painintheass

I'm certain that none of us have a problem with a non-canadian adding a comment.

But this is a "FAMILY" argument. And if you NOT family and DON'T have something intelligent to say.

SHUT THE FUCK UP

painintheass

This has been my comment all along. The damn question.
I'm Quebecoise and I MIGHT support seperation but to date no one... Absolutely NO ONE has told me

1. What happens after succession
2. How do we benefit?

I'm one of those "Talk to me, I'm willing to listen" kind of girls.

As for my point of view.

I have an opinion different from the people of Montreal or Quebec city. I came from Rurual Quebec.
The place where:

1. Teachers couldn't read or write the language much better than myself.

2. Law enforcement was at least 2 hours away and some Saturday nights in town it looked like cowboy gun fight.

3. Doctors were inepp. You took just as many chances going to see them as you did with the infection. Hopefully the doctor was smart enough that if there was something serious he had you air lifted to Quebec.

4. My local Hotel de ville was run by a mechanic, hairdresser and some guy that used to tell them where to blow the snow during winter. Ok this is goverment by commoners but it often resembled highschool antics. And all they ever really wanted to do was spend community money on going to expensive hotels for some of the dumbest conferences, getting expensive laptops and cell phones. (Which the cell phones didn't work in our area)

The way I look at it is that this entire seperation things is Political fat catting for both the federalist and seperatists. Neither side really wants it and they are somehow profiting off it.

Under seperation I don't see things improving in my region. In the next 2 years both of my sons will be university bound. Since I already own a home there I am going to return and plant my garden and life my rest of my days there.

(Do you want to know how bad it is??? At 14 I was lucky to move to NB. Where they quickly discovered I was iliterate. I didn't know the entire alphabet!)

RawAlex

painintheass, your experience is like many people living in rural Quebec. Thankfully, the arrival of the internet, satelite TV, and other things has helped to broaden the horizons, ever so slightly, of the people least in touch with the world.

The question of seperation beings on the question of seperating the parts... does quebec city want to leave but montreal stay part of Canada? Where do you draw the line? Would perhaps the cote nord like to go, leaving the rest of us as canadians? It's a hard question.

I give up.

Alex

painintheass

Thank you for saying that this does happen. Being from Rural Quebec often
feels like we are not part of Quebec at all. It's like we are another country caught in a "Tail of 2 Cities", Montreal and Quebec.

Think aout it, someone from Gaspe decides to visit Montreal. It's at least 15 hours by car or over 125 cdn by bus. And the bus isn't even an option for someone outside of Gaspe. They would have to commute to, ie: drive for over an hour, to the bus stop.


From my perspective, most politicians don't give a shit about us... but when an election comes around they go out into these areas. Find the all the elderly and iliterate and basically tell them these things:

"The Liberals are going to make it worse for you."
"The english are not your friends."
"They don't care what happens to the french. Thats why your schools, hospitals, etc are bad."
"Do you want your grand-children or children not being able to speak french. Because thats what they will do. Take your children away from you."
etc etc etc.

They never say this stuff on a stage. But they sure as hell have no problemes talking like this when they sit down with you during a Lions club dinner.

The average person in Rural areas of Quebec has never been further than Quebec city. You should hear how they talk about thier visit for the next 10 years.

Most Rural Quebec'rs are not scared to get into a fight. Hell, most of us have no problemes with a "Nock down and drag away" fight. But the above scares the shit out of us.

This is scary shit to these kind of people.

Ok, let me deal with the first part of your comment. The arrival of communications.

Satelite TV has changed things slightly. It has made many Quebec'rs in rural areas a little more peaceful. It means that instead of causing problemes on a saturday night they can sit at home and drink Wildcat beers because there is something good on Television.

As for Internet connection....
My friends are still screwed in my home ville. They can only get connection from one provider, the phone company.

The most they can get is dial up connection and although they say it is 56k. The best speeds they can connect at is apx 33k. The signal is cut off many times so it is not reliable. And for this service they pay...$29.95 with a one year contract.

To get highspeed they must petition the Hotel de ville to ask the company to put in a highspeed connection. Then they must get 100 people to sign up for 1 year contracts. And even if they do all that the best speed we get is 2meg adsl for a price of $56cdn a month including modem rental. (And you MUST use their modem. But you can choose to purchase it for close to $300cdn)

Again, it is not opening our horizons for us. Montreal and Quebec city are as out of touch with us as english Canada is out of touch with Montreal and Quebec.


You know... not to sound like I'm tooting my own horn. But I'm going to start another thread with this post. Seperation and the Rural Quebec'r

project_naughty

As a Brit (and therefore your colonial master) I can say what I want. And I want all the nasty backwards cowardly Frenchy Quebecois to sit down and shut up and accept what's right for them (which will most probably be known by the British and other descendants, not by the Quebecois, cos the Quebecois are French descendants and France sucks ass and hasn't got a clue about anything, except how to surrender and be a nuisance to everyone else).

painintheass

So your a Brit huh?

Well Keyboard Crusader I'm just a short skip across the stream. And I can get an easyjet flight for around 50 euro. I'll gladly come over there and stuff that fucking Keyboard down your throat.

I believe it is named "Calling you out." You can show me your toughness Mr. British Master. Just step out from behind that Keyboard and say the word. I'm more than happy to finish this argument with my fists.

I suspect that like a true Keyboard crusader you will simply come back with some stupid comments to weasel out.

On the chance that maybe you fool me and are a real man. My phone number is in my sig. and I'll even let you throw the first punch.

CDSmith

Uh ohhhh.... project_naughty is gonna get his ass kicked by a girl

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CDSmith

Interesting stuff. Very interesting.

It's as I've feared, as I've been trying to say.... much of the separatist movement is born out of ignorance and polititians playing on that ignorance. I would hazard a wild guess that if the rurals you speak of were to be given more education and truth on the matter, the ENTIRE matter, the separatist movement would lose a lot of it's oomph.

At first glance I thought "sheeze, what a long post!".... but I'm glad I took the time to read it.

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project_naughty

But you are of French stock. Therefore as soon as you see me you will throw up your arms, wave a white flag, say "oh he hoh he hoh" and then try to sell some weapons to the Chinese whilst opposing the Iraq war because Saddam is selling you oil. It's in your genes.

Hey, you'd probably even surrender to a squirrel if it looked menacing anough.

Now be quiet or I will send over a couple of British red squirrels armed with acorns to take over your province.

RawAlex

naughty, you truly are an embarrassment to all the queen's loyal subjects (and pretty much everyone else too).

Alex

project_naughty

Hey come on, there's nothing wrong with winding up a few Frenchies

painintheass

What amazes me is these Keyboard Crusaders don't know when to quit. Especially in of case of this idiot. He has made himself owned.

My number is listed. I do not have to say more.

skillfull

that what happen cause of idiot like you

From 1963 to 1970, the FLQ committed over 200 political actions, including bombings, bank hold-ups and at least three deaths by FLQ bombs and two deaths by gunfire. In 1963, Gabriel Hudon and Raymond Villeneuve were sentenced to 12 years in prison for crimes against the state after their bomb killed Sgt. O'Neill, a watchman at Montreal's Canadian Army Recruitment Centre. By 1970, twenty-three members of the FLQ were in jail, including four convicted murderers, and one member had been killed by his own bomb. Targets included English owned businesses, banks, McGill University, and the homes of prominent English speakers in the wealthy Westmount area of the city. On February 13, 1969 the Front de libération du Québec set off a powerful bomb that ripped through the Montreal Stock Exchange causing massive destruction and seriously injuring twenty-seven people.
On October 5, 1970, members of the FLQ's Liberation cell kidnapped James Richard Cross, the British Trade Commissioner. Shortly afterwards, on October 10, the Chénier cell kidnapped the Quebec Vice-Premier and Minister of Labour, Pierre Laporte, whom they later murdered on October 17, 1970.

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CDSmith

Although project_naughty is being an idiot, Let's not try putting the blame for those bombings on people like him. Intelligent people know that there are better ways of furthering one's goals than bombing and killing others. I'll give today's separatists this much, at least they haven't resorted to that level of stupidity since the very early 70's. As far as I'm concerned the FLQ were a bunch of assholes who deserved everything they got, and the ones who were let off the hook hopefully got what they had coming to them as well.

Blame the terrorist, not the antagonist.

Diplomatic channels are the way to go of course, but I wish the PQ and their movement would focus their efforts on working WITH the federal gov't to improve education and health care instead of blabbering incessantly on about separating. One is productive, the other is counter-productive. And most of Canada is sick to death of it.

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project_naughty

I think you'll find that those things happened because the Frenchy Quebecois have always been jealous of the Brit (and other decent) Canadians and want to separate from them because they actually think they can do better. Typical French way of thinking - so proud of themselves with no real reason to be proud.

project_naughty

How am I owned exactly?

Aren't the Quebecois the ones who are the losers and will never have their own state? I called *that* owned. Owned by the Brits and HRH Queen Elizabeth

Dude, I know I come across as a dick. It's because my particular brand of humour vis a vis the French doesn't really translate that well into text amongst strangers.

Having said that though, I thoroughly hope that should the Quebecois ever rise up, the Government crush them then impose Prima Nocte in that province. If we can't *get* them out, we'll *breed* them out.

The Canadians earn respect. The French do not.

skillfull

you are fucking clueless

know your history man
«1759: the conquest of Québec»
http://www.republiquelibre.org/cousture/1759B.HTM


For many contemporary historians, the tragic end of the French and Indian war was inevitable. Great Britain possessed a more important navy and was able to stop French supply ships from even reaching New France. Military power clearly favoured the English; New France only had 5000 soldiers at its disposal while the 13 British colonies could count on an army of 23 000 men. The 13 colonies had a population of 1.5 million against only 70 000 Canadiens inhabiting New France. The odds were clearly against the French.

With the war moving ever closer to the Saint-Laurent valley, Québec City fears the worse. The bishop of Québec, Mgr de Pontbriand, wrote to the king of France, Louis XV. He describes the insufferable situation and recommends that reinforcements be sent with great urgency. Gouverneur Vaudreuil, all the military officials and colonial administrators do the same. It is in vain. Paris does not answer. Four years before the Treaty of Paris, it appears that the mother country has already abandoned Canada.

Montcalm remains a defeatist from the start, as this note written to the Chevalier de Lévis clearly shows: "The colony is lost if peace doesn't come; I see nothing that could save it." Montcalm had in fact elaborated a strategy to retreat with all the French troops to Louisiana, thus abandoning the Canadiens to the enemy but the plan had been rejected by Versailles. The fate of Canada is of much less interest to him than his career and his reputation, an attitude for which he is vehemently criticised by the Canadien inhabitants who consider this part of the world to be their true motherland.

At 10 o'clock, Montcalm orders the charge. The French troops begin their advance but it is disorderly and undisciplined. Many French soldiers open fire too soon, before it can do any real harm to the English. Wolfe waits until his opponents are only a few yards ahead before shouting the order: "Fire!" Many French soldiers fall under the rain of bullets and the others, stunned by the sudden massacre, freeze instead of reacting. Only the Canadiens push the attack while the French army, panicking, retreats towards the city walls.

On the day of Québec's surrender, Captain John Knox is sent to officially take possession of the city. Seen from outside the walls, the capital still looks indestructible. But once he passes the gates, he can't believe his eyes. Not one single house has been spared by the English shells. The basse-ville (lower city) is nothing but ruins among which roam hungry women and children, searching for scraps of food. In the haute-ville (upper city), no house is intact, their walls show huge gaping holes. About 2300 civilians have remained in the city, women, children and elderly for the most part. They have lost everything. . The men are gone, they are still with the French army. The Ursuline nuns try to help as best they can the 1200 sick and wounded, French, Canadien and British alike

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skillfull

i will never support terrorism

but the fact is that because of some loser like project_naughty, some people think that all english speaking ppl are asshole like him, and asshole dont understand words...

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project_naughty

Dude, if you don't like English-speaking people then move to France. There, you can spend all day eating garlic, urinating in public, making white flags for the next time Germany invades, smoking Gaulloises and going "oh he hoh he hoh".

Look at the state of the world. Who is it who seems to have all the success? Who are the only people to stand up to dictators and champion democracy? That's right, it's the "Anglosphere". Not the "Francosphere". There's no reason why the French can't be great too - they just have to have a change of attitude that's all and stop thinking that they are important in the world when quite clearly they are not. Instead of trying to save their precious language and culture by doing business with the world's leading dictators and enemies of freedom, perhaps they could actually try inventing and innovating to give themselves something to be really pround of, instead of constantly being jealous of their British-speaking rivals.

Lol.

project_naughty

skillfull

remove your head out of your ass and read

i'm not french, im not from france

im french-canadian (Quebecois)

so stop talking about France, this is not the country we are speaking here

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project_naughty

I know you're not French. Something you may not know, but will have suspected, is that the reason the Quebecois seem to suck compared to the other Canidians is because of their French heritage. If you look at France you will see a nation which has far more than it's fair share of appeasers, cowards, and people who would sell their own mothers for a few francs. It is that same mindset which the French settlers took with them to Canada and which exists to this day within the Quebecois society. And my point is that if the Quebecois were to discard those inferior French qualities (and possibly adopt the proven more superior qualities of the other Canadians) then they may find that they do infact have very little to actually moan about.
Do the loyal Canadians whinge nearly as much as the Quebecois? No, because their ancestors came from countries like Britain, Denmark and Germany which possess a superior cultural mindset to that of France.
Not every country and culture is equal, just as not everyone can run as fast as each other and not all trees are the same height.
It's just tough on the Quebecois that they were born with remnants of an inferior culture. If they want to help themseves then it would be logical for them to analyse that and make improvements, and most importantly to stop whining and blaming everyone else for their problems.

Now flame away if you're unable to understand that concept. I'm incredibly thick-skinned and not a single thing you say will hurt me in the slightest.

MetaMan

i would like to make a quick interruption and announce my new button, o ya, i will be back later for more fun!