would you promote a site that paid 25% ?

[Paul Markham]

Been talking to a new site owner, new site, new to the Internet, totally unique idea, very good site, with more content that the surfer can look at.

This is not Bang Bus that someone with a van, couple of mates and a camcorder can set up. So the niche will be hard to copy and this supplier will be the only one in the market for years.

Upside is predictions show revenue share will be good.

Downside is it's expensive to run, bandwidth, the site, personnel, location, etc. If the sponsor give out 50% he can't afford your traffic, at 30% it's a squeeze.

So would you promote a site that pays 25% but would get you listed easier and convert better?

There will be all the usual tools, but that is not the question.

[quiet]

Originally Posted by charly

This is not Bang Bus that someone with a van, couple of mates and a camcorder can set up.

ahahahahahaahaha.

oh man

[Shooter]

What kind of billing is done?

Cam site style, typical paysite style, etc.?

If I could get 25% of some guy that blew a couple hundred bucks in a day then sure, but 25% of $25 a month would be a tough sell.

[INever]

Speaking for myself, if it's 25% of $40 with a site so great the surfer renews for monhts or years, then sure. If it's 20% of $20, I doubt I'd be interested unless retention rates were almost 100%......

[Shoehorn!]

Originally Posted by quiet

ahahahahahaahaha.

oh man

I was thinking the same thing.

[Rhesus]

Originally Posted by quiet

ahahahahahaahaha.

oh man

the poor man has no clue

[iwantchixx]

If it converts above average, and I mean, doublle or triple the conversions that the best sponsors do and retains, why not? Money is money no matter what it boils down to.

[WiredGuy]

If its that great an idea, an established player will copy it and be able to afford the typical payouts. No way would I go down to 25%.
WG

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by quiet

ahahahahahaahaha.

oh man

The Bang Bus guys had a bit of talent and a ton of marketing, but what stops every other wannabee going out and doing exactly the same?

Bang Bus would cost $1000 plus the girl. It's the marketing of Bang Bus that made it successful.

This idea will cost you $3-4 million to set up full stop.

Billing will be membership mostly. Mostly around 30-40 Euros a month. It's the conversion ratio that will make it a good earner.

Read what I'm saying, an idea no one else can set up. TOTALLY UNIQUE AND EXCLUSIVE.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by WiredGuy

If its that great an idea, an established player will copy it and be able to afford the typical payouts. No way would I go down to 25%.
WG

YOU STILL THINK THE SMALL PICTURE.

Trust me this will not and cannot be copied over night, Try an investment on $4,000,000 in Czech and you are loking at the cost alone.

Now think in terms of it would take someone with these unique resources a year minimum to set it up.

But that is not the discussion, would you promote it?

Once I tell you what it is you will realise it cannot be copied easily.

[beemk]

no offense, but you have no fucking clue charly, stick to photography.

[beemk]

Originally Posted by iwantchixx

If it converts above average, and I mean, doublle or triple the conversions that the best sponsors do and retains, why not? Money is money no matter what it boils down to.

no way is that going to happen with the same traffic source. especially from soemone who thinks bangbus is just a couple of idiots off the street with a camera fucking some girl in their van.

[Shoehorn!]

Why don't you just tell us what it is. I mean, if the big guys won't be able to compete for 3 or 4 years why not just come out and say it?

[WiredGuy]

Originally Posted by charly

YOU STILL THINK THE SMALL PICTURE.

Trust me this will not and cannot be copied over night, Try an investment on $4,000,000 in Czech and you are loking at the cost alone.

Now think in terms of it would take someone with these unique resources a year minimum to set it up.

But that is not the discussion, would you promote it?

Once I tell you what it is you will realise it cannot be copied easily.

I somewhat don't believe it would cost $4m for an established player to replicate a site. Even top of the line productions can be replicated for really cheap, especially from those who have had market experience. As you said, this person is a completely new player with relatively no experience. I'd be willing to bet on the top dogs who've been doing this for years than the early adopters. And to be honest, I'd never do revshare with someone who as you said is new to the internet. Good luck to them, they'll need it.

WG

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by INever

Speaking for myself, if it's 25% of $40 with a site so great the surfer renews for monhts or years, then sure. If it's 20% of $20, I doubt I'd be interested unless retention rates were almost 100%......

They are planning on something around 35 Euros a month.

I think retention will be very high, because every day you will see something different. Conversions will very good as well, plus you will be submitting to freesites something TOTALLY UNIQUE.

Most of you will promote a company that has nothing special on the fact it's 60% and get low ratios and low acceptances. I see this as a chance to make very very big money.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by beemk

no offense, but you have no fucking clue charly, stick to photography.

You really should learn the business you are in and get a clue.

Calling me a photographer is a joke, I would be driving a taxi if I had to rely on my photography skills.Not knowing my profession is a sign.

[bangman]

Wait...so he's new to the Internet and he's launching a reality site?
It sounds like you are talking about a bizzare locations of sorts...like he bought/rented something really unique and he will be shooting content there.
Is this site launched yet?

[quiet]

Originally Posted by charly

The Bang Bus guys had a bit of talent and a ton of marketing, but what stops every other wannabee going out and doing exactly the same?

why is bangbus/nasty dollars the number one paysite operator on the internet? who gives a shit about wannabees? my business model was copied hundreds of times, honestly i never cared. anyway, a couple of guys and their camcorder

[beemk]

are you or are you not a photographer? i know you have a paysite but everyone knows you for your content. theres a reason for that.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by beemk

no way is that going to happen with the same traffic source. especially from soemone who thinks bangbus is just a couple of idiots off the street with a camera fucking some girl in their van.

I never said they were idiots.

I said to replicate what they did IN TERMS OF CONTENT is simple and has been copied to a stage where the genre is far from unique. In fact I shot a vehicle pick up movie in 1992 and it was copying an already established theme.

What they did was fairly good but not special on the content side, what they did on the marketing side was awesome and to be admired.

[WiredGuy]

Originally Posted by quiet

my business model was copied hundreds of times, honestly i never cared.

UltraWiredGuySex.com coming soon
WG

[quiet]

Originally Posted by WiredGuy

I somewhat don't believe it would cost $4m for an established player to replicate a site. Even top of the line productions can be replicated for really cheap, especially from those who have had market experience. As you said, this person is a completely new player with relatively no experience. I'd be willing to bet on the top dogs who've been doing this for years than the early adopters. And to be honest, I'd never do revshare with someone who as you said is new to the internet. Good luck to them, they'll need it.

WG

agree with everything you said, except revshare. but then i was always pushing my own sites, so it was always revshare, except 100% revshare lol.

[WiredGuy]

Originally Posted by quiet

agree with everything you said, except revshare. but then i was always pushing my own sites, so it was always revshare, except 100% revshare lol.

You're not exactly new to the internet either
WG

[2HousePlague]

Most of the critics are missing the point.

You're all focused on the feasibility of a $4(whetever-fuck-that-currency was) investment for a "pay-site", or on your ethical reaction to a 25% payout.

Fuck all that.

If I send this ("A") site (whatever it is, however it converts) X hits and I make more (either as immediate PPE* or ultimate long-term/recurring revenue) than I did sending X hits to "B' site, that's where the traffic's gonna go.

Period.

Certainly, that a program have a sustainable business model matters, if your concerns are getting paid at all. But, if the effective yield on traffic investment is desirable, who cares how they did it.


j-



*(PPE = Pay per Event, an Event being any non-recurring payment basis, click, e-mail, join, etc.)

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Shoehorn

Why don't you just tell us what it is. I mean, if the big guys won't be able to compete for 3 or 4 years why not just come out and say it?

Because I've got you guys talking and when I do tell you there will be some egg on faces.

The question is will you promote a site that convets 1:200 with a two month turn over of members at 50% rather than a site that converts 1:50 at 25% with members staying longer?

bangman has the right idea, the location without the hardware cost $millions, then the technical staff, management and lastly the staff. But to set this up needs somthing that NO OTHER company has. Experience in running the actual location.

Without the experience money will not get it off the ground

[Shoehorn!]

Originally Posted by uproared

HERE IS MY PREDICTION...

Here is my prediction of what you're talking about. My guess is based on: 1) It being in prague, 2) It having 'new unique content' daily.

You're going to setup a paysite which has cams inside a brothel. Members will be able to view the brothel, the customers fucking the prostitutes, etc.

Do I win?

ARS has a similar site

[quiet]

Originally Posted by charly

The question is will you promote a site that convets 1:200 with a two month turn over of members at 50% rather than a site that converts 1:50 at 25% with members staying longer?

i'm sorry, but here again charly, you show your ignorance with regard to traffic. there is such a massive variance in conversion ratios depending on traffic... bah. anyway, good luck with your phantom project.

unless it's hard goods, i can say with 100% certainty it will never get above water at 25% unless most of the traffic is internal.

[Shoehorn!]

Originally Posted by quiet

i'm sorry, but here again charly, you show your ignorance with regard to traffic. there is such a massive variance in conversion ratios depending on traffic... bah. anyway, good luck with your phantom project.

unless it's hard goods, i can say with 100% certainty it will never get above water at 25% unless most of the traffic is internal.

Let me be the first to say congratulations on 22k.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by beemk

are you or are you not a photographer? i know you have a paysite but everyone knows you for your content. theres a reason for that.

No I am not a photographer, I might be able to earn money at the weekend shooting weddings, but that's it.

I'm a pornographer who uses a camera and a business man.

Everyone know my content because I've been selling it for decades.

Few know my paysite because I've had it a few months with little promotion.

2HousePlague has the right idea, funny how many here look at the top line and not the bottome line and believe nothing can be done different that can't be copied in a matter of weeks. Except on the marketing side

Very revealing on what they think there business is.

[Shoehorn!]

Originally Posted by charly

2HousePlague has the right idea, funny how many here look at the top line and not the bottome line and believe nothing can be done different that can't be copied in a matter of weeks. Except on the marketing side

Very revealing on what they think there business is.

While I agree that you shouldn't let other people discourage your ideas, a few of the people telling you that this isn't likely to work are people who know what they're talking about.

[Shoehorn!]

Originally Posted by uproared

I couldn't see it in their site portfolio...

Anyway, I'm talking about LIVE STREAMING from multiple cams. Not downloadable staged reality content.

Am I wrong charly?

Again, there has been sites with similar themes.

[2HousePlague]

Originally Posted by Shoehorn

While I agree that you shouldn't let other people discourage your ideas, a few of the people telling you that this isn't likely to work are people who know what they're talking about.

Of Course they do!

But, shouldn't we able to consider this in purely theoretical terms?

One day, somebody's gonna post here and ask you about some crazy bullshit idea that makes no sense, and nobody thinks will work, and that's gonna be the next AMAZING THING.

I'm not saying charly's got such a thing. I don't know charly, have no idea what the likelihood is that he could launch any pay site, much less one that revolutionized our conversion standards.

I'm just a little surprised at the apparent inability to just "play" with ideas here...


j-

[AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE]

Originally Posted by charly

This is not Bang Bus that someone with a van, couple of mates and a camcorder can set up.

If not then your over thinking what ever it is your about to do.

[Shoehorn!]

Originally Posted by 2HousePlague

Of Course they do!

But, shouldn't we able to consider this in purely theoretical terms?

One day, somebody's gonna post here and ask you about some crazy bullshit idea that makes no sense, and nobody thinks will work, and that's gonna be the next AMAZING THING.

I'm not saying charly's got such a thing. I don't know charly, have no idea what the likelihood is that he could launch any pay site, much less one that revolutionized our conversion standards.

I'm just a little surprised at the apparent inability to just "play" with ideas here...


j-

With all due respect, all he has given us is a "I know this guy who has this thing" type scenario. Maybe if he posted the idea then we would be able to give a better assessment of it.

[NiTe-HaWk]

I might try it out depending on what it is actually is.

[kuthi123]

whatever you say paul, It is verry hard to to get affliates if you pay 25%

[2HousePlague]

Originally Posted by Shoehorn

With all due respect, all he has given us is a "I know this guy who has this thing" type scenario. Maybe if he posted the idea then we would be able to give a better assessment of it.

I boiled his thesis down to this:

Originally Posted by charly

So would you promote a site that pays 25% but would get you listed easier and convert better?

The question has meaning, without any additional information.


j-

[quiet]

Originally Posted by 2HousePlague

I boiled his thesis down to this:



The question has meaning, without any additional information.


j-

um, lol.

[Shoehorn!]

Originally Posted by 2HousePlague

I boiled his thesis down to this:



The question has meaning, without any additional information.


j-

But still, converting 1:300 is better than 1:301, that doesn't mean anyone is going to take a 25% cut. And get listed easier where? And how does he know it will get listed easier?

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Shoehorn

While I agree that you shouldn't let other people discourage your ideas, a few of the people telling you that this isn't likely to work are people who know what they're talking about.

I don't take any notice of the idiots. Just remember all those who told me the Internet did not want my type of content. Most of those are now out of the business becasue they could not compete.

I'm just a little surprised at the apparent inability to just "play" with ideas here...

You will soon learn that these guys think in tunnels and along tracks. You have the right idea totally.

Can you believe the trouble the Gayle Scott, who thought of Barely Legal, had selling it to Hustler?

they even think I'm launching it and do not even read and then look at the half arsed site I did launch.

[Shoehorn!]

Originally Posted by charly

I don't take any notice of the idiots. Just remember all those who told me the Internet did not want my type of content. Most of those are now out of the business becasue they could not compete.


You will soon learn that these guys think in tunnels and along tracks. You have the right idea totally.

Can you believe the trouble the Gayle Scott, who thought of Barely Legal, had selling it to Hustler?

they even think I'm launching it and do not even read and then look at the half arsed site I did launch.

I'm always amazed when people come here and ask a question, or ask for constructive criticism, then get it and get all bent out of shape about it. You asked a question, people commented on it and gave their opinions, now they're idiots and narrow minded. How fucking childish.

[Voodoo]

Originally Posted by quiet

i'm sorry, but here again charly, you show your ignorance with regard to traffic. there is such a massive variance in conversion ratios depending on traffic... bah. anyway, good luck with your phantom project.

unless it's hard goods, i can say with 100% certainty it will never get above water at 25% unless most of the traffic is internal.

They've devised a scheme and made a deal with FedEx to allow them to box up hookers from Mongolia and ship them all over the world. The customer orders the hooker and he/she is delivered within 6 to 8 weeks. Once delivered, the customer is charged their monthly fee to keep the hooker until they cancel and return the hooker in an "unused" state, in an unopened box (customer pays for return shipping).

If the customer cancels their membership without returning the unused freight, they are charged an astronomical cancelation fee.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by quiet

i'm sorry, but here again charly, you show your ignorance with regard to traffic. there is such a massive variance in conversion ratios depending on traffic... bah. anyway, good luck with your phantom project.

unless it's hard goods, i can say with 100% certainty it will never get above water at 25% unless most of the traffic is internal.

Yes I know how traffic varies, we as novices are out performing some others and some are out performing us. I'm talking averages and hyperthetical, *did I spell that right?*

I think what may happen is they set up their own unit to drive traffic, with a wage level of $500 per month that would be sensible. One monthly paid submitter converts 5 a day, 300 a month. Can be done because we do better with our site. 150 at 25% of $40 = $1,500. Upside is you make more money, downside is employing people.

The affilaites would be a bonus. Until enough learn this is a way to make money.

But at the moment it's all guesswork.

ARS do not have a site like this unless they are leasing it.

But still, converting 1:300 is better than 1:301, that doesn't mean anyone is going to take a 25% cut. And get listed easier where? And how does he know it will get listed easier?

Because as I said it will be different from what anyone else is submitting. Most sites/porn niches can be copied and copied, then it comes down to how well it's copied and marketing. This is like most products.

Now think outside the box with a product that can't be duplicated easily and it will be a long time before it is.

thanks for your replies, Quiet if you want to bet on how long before this site is duplicated please tell me.

[$5 submissions]

It depends on sales volume and retention.

[2HousePlague]

Originally Posted by Shoehorn

But still, converting 1:300 is better than 1:301, that doesn't mean anyone is going to take a 25% cut.

Ahhhhh!

So, there it is -- you ARE saying you would have a problem with a 25% cut, simply BECAUSE it is a 25% cut, and without any concern for the actual ABSOLUTE dollar amount of return to you implicit in that 25% cut.

Now, that's problem.

How much the sponsor program pays you (as a percentage of order revenue) has really worked its way into the Webmaster psyche. I realized this when I saw fools responding to offers of 70% here, 80% there when I took over the program for my prior employer. I realized it's emotional, it's based on the relatively short history of our business and the relatively NARROW range of conversion performance we have observed in our professional lives.

So long as the difference between 25% of this and 50% of that is limited by some inescapable threshold of absolute convertibility (which is to say, there is no possible difference in the merit of the INVESTMENT we can imagine great enough to overcome the difference between 25% and 50%) I will agree with you.

Then, to consider charly's question would be a fruitless exercise.

But, let's begin to anticipate a state of affairs in which the Webmaster (affiliate) is NOT so keenly aware of the sponsor's profit margin.

This would be the case if we allowed just the sponsors to worry about HOW they convert the traffic they get, and HOW LARGE their margins are.

A parallel benefit, to the senders of traffic, would be that they, then, could focus on identifying the best traffic destinations on the basis of ROI rather than on their prejudices regarding the site model, the location of the servers, etc.

If I have my druthers, Adult paysites (that pass muster) will be presented to Mainstream traffic "Investors" as "Investment Vehicles" with all the rewards of a high-risk equity, but with a paradigmatic shift in the location and nature of the risk AWAY from the actual operations of the "invested-in" company, and over to a subjective, political realm where those risks can be addressed with clever architectures.


j-

[V_RocKs]

Show Me The Money!

[Mutt]

no matter what the content is if it's a monthly subscription based model nobody is going to take 25% - EVEN if it did convert and retain at twice the rate the best sites do - which is almost impossible. There are no magic sites out there with freakish retention rates compared to the rest - I do know some who are at the top end of retention rates but it's not like they are averaging 6 months retention. If the concept is that unique, that good, he'll have to think outside the box a bit and figure out some other billing model.

Webmasters do send traffic to cam sites and PPV sites for a 25% payout - but those businesses are a whole other animal than membership subscription sites. If AEBN offered monthly memberships to surfers at 30 bucks a month and paid 25% revshare to affiliates nobody would send any traffic.

If this site is so special maybe try daily or weekly memberships or PPV/PPD

[sumphatpimp]

I think it is a great idea.
the sooner you run out of money and go away the better for me and others.

[quiet]

Originally Posted by charly

Quiet if you want to bet on how long before this site is duplicated please tell me.

if it is widely profitable on the internet, 6-8 months.

[2HousePlague]

Originally Posted by Mutt

no matter what the content is if it's a monthly subscription based model nobody is going to take 25% - EVEN if it did convert and retain at twice the rate the best sites do - which is almost impossible. There are no magic sites out there with freakish retention rates compared to the rest...

Yes, but what if it WERE possible, and you got the checks and you cashed them?

Why would you care?

That's the problem with rev. share -- it makes the Webmaster your fucking comptroller.


j-