Originally Posted by shuki

I think that the issue of having info at ones finger tips is eliminated when having the source code. I just wish they offered a financed or pay over time price for this.

Originally Posted by gregtx

we do actually.. email me greg AT shawinternet DOT com ;)

Originally Posted by Brad Mitchell

Looking forward to seeing everyone in Phoenix... Drinks are on me

Before I give my two cents, here's where I'm coming from:

1) I own a billing company that is integrated with both MPA2/MPA3 and NATS.

2) I own a hosting company and support about a dozen managed client programs that use either program, several clients that have been with each respective company through their upgrades and a few more still who have switched from one vendor to another.

3) I owned an affiliate program which was sold late last year, SinBucks, which was originally MPA2 then MPA3 then post-sale I provided technical support the new owner while he migrated to NATS.

Someone want to tell me I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about? HA, I can't fucking wait.

Now, here's my

All versions of every every back end package can have problems with "post-back". That's the process where the 3rd party billing company posts back to the accounting package so that a sale ultimately gets tracked and reported.

This isn't a shave, this is a technical problem. When it doesn't work, it just plain doesn't fucking work so nothing gets reported. This is something that won't start working again until gets fixed. Why does this usually happen? For one reason or another, it's usually a result of biller and merchant servers not being able to communicate properly either because of an authentication issue or a DB issue. I won't speak to the specifics of the Electracash issue that was identified, but I've seen problems with post back on both platforms with every 3rd party billing program.

Whose resposibility is what? Well, obviously when you buy software you expect it to work - and when it breaks due to no malfeasance of your own, it's reasonable to expect your software vendor to warranty it. If someone like a billing company who is somewhat of a 3rd party to the software vendor and the actual merchant decides to not be part of the solution, really everyone gets screwed except them I guess.

My point?

At the end of the day, the ultimate responsibility for the integrity of an affiliate program lies with the person signing the checks. Like was suggested earlier, you reconcile your 3rd party billing reports to your payout reports. An honest business person either fixes the problem or moves to another software solution. Obviously, J&A moved so it's clear their intention is to do right by their affiliates.

NATS got stuck with a billing company that evidently wouldn't fix the problem, they did what they could in the situation unfortunately it wasn't enough to make their client happy.



Is there some magic bullet solution out there? Fuck no. The integrity of a program is only as good as it's operators.

What are my honest thoughts on both pieces of software? You won't hear them unless we're drunk and naked at the next tradeshow. Any one of you that thinks either program is "perfect" is an idiot. I've lived in them from EVERY angle and there are nightmares and dramas with some vendors. The reality? The affiliate public can't handle the truth. Even with a great product sometimes communications are so bad that vendors and merchants will never see eye to eye. This thread is a perfect example, I think.

Get me started, get me drinking - let me tell you how many tens of thousands of dollars in support costs and lost productivity has come off my kitchen table for MojoHost doing "whatever" it takes to triage problems with accounting packages and their customers who are our hosting customer. What bugs me the most is the lack of humility and accountability when they royally fuck up.

I fully appreciate that as a host I'm responsible for my client's entire livelihood. Sometimes I wonder if I'm the only one that feels this sense of accountabilty and thankfulness for my client's business.

Mind you, I say they and them as if to indict everybody when in fact I might not really be doing that..

Is it both of them, one more than the other? I'll have to leave that up to speculation. I think I can plainly state that I'm the only guy out there that has the triple experience of being the hosting company, the affiliate program and a 3rd party billing company.

Finally, the reality check.

Despite whatever shortcomings such vendors might have, I will say that it's obvious they are all well-intentioned. The goals are simple for each program, to have the best affiliate management software out there. When you're growing a business it's not easy to please everyone and despite best efforts it's statistically impossible to anyways.

Who pulled it off, who has the better product? Buy and use both, find out for yourself. I'd love to get drunk with Garry, Oystein, John and Nathan but I don't think that'll ever happen. I certainly won't double talk any of them, I'm more than happy to tell them exactly what I think about their products but you had best believe such opinions won't end up in a public forum, published, online. LOL

Just don't be a fucking moron and start pointing fingers at one company or the other and be ignorant thinking that whoever you think is better isn't without sin. You're simply unaware of what such sins might be.

Cheers,

Brad

Originally Posted by Nathan

Is that a fact? Interesting. Who told you that?

Get your facts straight before you make yourself look like a fool.

Originally Posted by tony404

Two things first Kimmy you ever do "Pro Bono" work for little humble sites like ours

And secondly I want to make a suggestion we stop using the nice word shaving and use the real word stealing.

Originally Posted by Kimmykim

LOL Tony, I didnt realize this was a courtroom ;)

Originally Posted by XPays

Spam

In just a few weeks, us guys who invented "Affiliate Pooling" and the "Virtual Affiliate" model will unfurl a revolutionary plugin for affiliate programs called "XTXN" aka XTransaction. We have so many sites and integrated processors after 7 years in this business that even dhd is in there

Our turnkey solution will have you Affiliate Pooling with our Affiliate BlackBox and increase the variety and stability and profitability of your business overnight. Many sites and stores etc. are integrated into XTXN and you can insert as many as you like and subtrack and payout your affiliates. There are so many applications to increase your bottom line with XTXN that it will be the platform you piggyback onto your network forever. It can plug right in with Nats and MPA and RiverStyx and all of the options out there including your own proprietary network. You also have built in to XTXN a patent license to our '660 patent http://essociate.com/patents/US6804660.pdf and XTXN is directly addressed in our claims and Patented Already.

Anybody who wants to be first to expand the shit out of their affiliate program with no hassle whatsoever call 415-331-2496 or email evan @ xpays
right now! We have 7 participating sponsors already and can add many more. We already have 125 sites and multiple sextoy and dvd stores integrated. The XTXN system can also be used for many other functions. The Affiliate Black Box can be used for independent 3rd party auditing, integrating multiple merchants within a single affiliate program, and more....

You heard about XTXN here first and we will be pushing hard on it for many years to come.

Originally Posted by Brad Mitchell

Looking forward to seeing everyone in Phoenix... Drinks are on me

Before I give my two cents, here's where I'm coming from:

1) I own a billing company that is integrated with both MPA2/MPA3 and NATS.

2) I own a hosting company and support about a dozen managed client programs that use either program, several clients that have been with each respective company through their upgrades and a few more still who have switched from one vendor to another.

3) I owned an affiliate program which was sold late last year, SinBucks, which was originally MPA2 then MPA3 then post-sale I provided technical support the new owner while he migrated to NATS.

Someone want to tell me I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about? HA, I can't fucking wait.

Now, here's my

All versions of every every back end package can have problems with "post-back". That's the process where the 3rd party billing company posts back to the accounting package so that a sale ultimately gets tracked and reported.

This isn't a shave, this is a technical problem. When it doesn't work, it just plain doesn't fucking work so nothing gets reported. This is something that won't start working again until gets fixed. Why does this usually happen? For one reason or another, it's usually a result of biller and merchant servers not being able to communicate properly either because of an authentication issue or a DB issue. I won't speak to the specifics of the Electracash issue that was identified, but I've seen problems with post back on both platforms with every 3rd party billing program.

Whose resposibility is what? Well, obviously when you buy software you expect it to work - and when it breaks due to no malfeasance of your own, it's reasonable to expect your software vendor to warranty it. If someone like a billing company who is somewhat of a 3rd party to the software vendor and the actual merchant decides to not be part of the solution, really everyone gets screwed except them I guess.

My point?

At the end of the day, the ultimate responsibility for the integrity of an affiliate program lies with the person signing the checks. Like was suggested earlier, you reconcile your 3rd party billing reports to your payout reports. An honest business person either fixes the problem or moves to another software solution. Obviously, J&A moved so it's clear their intention is to do right by their affiliates.

NATS got stuck with a billing company that evidently wouldn't fix the problem, they did what they could in the situation unfortunately it wasn't enough to make their client happy.



Is there some magic bullet solution out there? Fuck no. The integrity of a program is only as good as it's operators.

What are my honest thoughts on both pieces of software? You won't hear them unless we're drunk and naked at the next tradeshow. Any one of you that thinks either program is "perfect" is an idiot. I've lived in them from EVERY angle and there are nightmares and dramas with some vendors. The reality? The affiliate public can't handle the truth. Even with a great product sometimes communications are so bad that vendors and merchants will never see eye to eye. This thread is a perfect example, I think.

Get me started, get me drinking - let me tell you how many tens of thousands of dollars in support costs and lost productivity has come off my kitchen table for MojoHost doing "whatever" it takes to triage problems with accounting packages and their customers who are our hosting customer. What bugs me the most is the lack of humility and accountability when they royally fuck up.

I fully appreciate that as a host I'm responsible for my client's entire livelihood. Sometimes I wonder if I'm the only one that feels this sense of accountabilty and thankfulness for my client's business.

Mind you, I say they and them as if to indict everybody when in fact I might not really be doing that..

Is it both of them, one more than the other? I'll have to leave that up to speculation. I think I can plainly state that I'm the only guy out there that has the triple experience of being the hosting company, the affiliate program and a 3rd party billing company.

Finally, the reality check.

Despite whatever shortcomings such vendors might have, I will say that it's obvious they are all well-intentioned. The goals are simple for each program, to have the best affiliate management software out there. When you're growing a business it's not easy to please everyone and despite best efforts it's statistically impossible to anyways.

Who pulled it off, who has the better product? Buy and use both, find out for yourself. I'd love to get drunk with Garry, Oystein, John and Nathan but I don't think that'll ever happen. I certainly won't double talk any of them, I'm more than happy to tell them exactly what I think about their products but you had best believe such opinions won't end up in a public forum, published, online. LOL

Just don't be a fucking moron and start pointing fingers at one company or the other and be ignorant thinking that whoever you think is better isn't without sin. You're simply unaware of what such sins might be.

Cheers,

Brad

Originally Posted by XPays

Spam

In just a few weeks, us guys who invented "Affiliate Pooling" and the "Virtual Affiliate" model will unfurl a revolutionary plugin for affiliate programs called "XTXN" aka XTransaction. We have so many sites and integrated processors after 7 years in this business that even dhd is in there

Our turnkey solution will have you Affiliate Pooling with our Affiliate BlackBox and increase the variety and stability and profitability of your business overnight. Many sites and stores etc. are integrated into XTXN and you can insert as many as you like and subtrack and payout your affiliates. There are so many applications to increase your bottom line with XTXN that it will be the platform you piggyback onto your network forever. It can plug right in with Nats and MPA and RiverStyx and all of the options out there including your own proprietary network. You also have built in to XTXN a patent license to our '660 patent http://essociate.com/patents/US6804660.pdf and XTXN is directly addressed in our claims and Patented Already.

Anybody who wants to be first to expand the shit out of their affiliate program with no hassle whatsoever call 415-331-2496 or email evan @ xpays
right now! We have 7 participating sponsors already and can add many more. We already have 125 sites and multiple sextoy and dvd stores integrated. The XTXN system can also be used for many other functions. The Affiliate Black Box can be used for independent 3rd party auditing, integrating multiple merchants within a single affiliate program, and more....

You heard about XTXN here first and we will be pushing hard on it for many years to come.

Originally Posted by Zprogramz

I assume Netbilling and Jettis are in there as well?

Z

Originally Posted by XPays

Yes along with everyone you can name and some you might have never heard of.

Shuki- I look forward to talking with you!

Originally Posted by Zprogramz

Will you be in Phoenix?

Z

Originally Posted by JimmiDean

Im not sure where this will go.
we still at this point use Cbill and play fair and honest.
I think no matter the software in the end it will come down to the sponsor and their bizz practice and morals.

Originally Posted by Kimmykim

LOL Tony, I didnt realize this was a courtroom ;)