Amputate Your Head

Well... I see your point, but it's not like we're on a one-on-one with surfers like you would be in a face to face or even a phone convo... it's a prescribed banner or text link we're dealing with. There really isn't any personality involved. So that theory goes right out the window. From there it comes down to marketing and design skills.... may the better man win.

However... I AM wondering now if it is possible to set the "credit" cookie through img srcing a ref code. I honestly had never even thought about it. (I don't inherently have a cheaters mind....) but that is a very good point. I don't believe it is possible.... I think you would have to actually load a page with the link to get the cookie to set... but still... it would be very easy to load it into a zero frame or a self closing console. And if the duration on that thing was more than a minute or two.... uuuuuggggghhh...

Hmmm.... I'm fighting it with all of my being... but I think I may have to end up agreeing with... *gulp*.... The FLY on this one.

Fuck....

Roberto

dunno if i must say this, but actually you can do it with 1 line of asp

Amputate Your Head

This thread should be deleted immediately.

oscer

FLY reading that made my Head Hurt man dont do shit like that agian now i need some goddamn Asprin AND to turn the KORN UP AND MOSH IN TO THE COMPUTERS

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Amputate Your Head

I kneel before you FLY. Savor the victory... it doesn't happen often with me.

RedShoe

Well shit, I'm convinced. With logic, and proof like that, I'd be a fool to think otherwise.


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BoneProne Family Member

GotGauge

not possible......the browser wont allow any site that doesn't have ownership of the cookie to manipulate, read or even overwrite the cookie
ibill is the only site that can mess with ibill cookies.
if you try to manipulate some other sites cookie the browser ignores your command.

This is what you need to be interested in
and Watch out for. DIALERS
People are Down Loading a EXE.
What rule do you go by, Don't DL an EXE
From ANYONE you don't know.
If you download a EXE, you just exposed yourself to who knows what.
Gator ware? Ring a bell.
Not saying dialers are bad, but since this topic was brought up, might as well open a bigger can of worms.
Dialers basically have physical access to the computer.
There are some tricks with cookies that the sponsors can play to shave signups but no other site is manipulating their cookies to cheat you

RockDaddy

I'm not liking the sound of this much.


RD

Diamond Jim

The answer is yes, depending on the program you're sending to. No big surprise...
As always, know your sponsor.

re tracking: Roberto is right, which is another reason not to rely on cookie only tracking. Whoever sent the surfer when he actually signed up is the guy that should get the sale.

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Amputate Your Head

Right GG.... but I see now what FLY was talking about... if you got a ref code, and I got a ref code... I got a TGP site and you submit a gallery that gets listed...

I can load a zero frame with my ref code for "Big Fucking Tits dotcom" or whatever... and SHAZAM! The cookie is set. If you happen to be promoting that site on your gallery.... you are now fucked for three days or whatever the duration of the cookie is, because any clicks on your banners are worthless... I'm getting credit for that system from the cookie I already set.

Your gallery is now nothing more than free content for me. And you will post topics about how come you're not making any money from your gallerys. Oh, you'll have critiques and all kinds of shit... but it makes no difference.

Now... imagine if I load the cookie for every fucking paysite that that particular sponsor has.... you ain't gonna make a dime.

FLY nailed it on this one.

TheFLY

It's worse than that bro... You never need to make the call in the first place. Setting the cookie is transparent and requires no effort.

quiet

talked about a long time ago. kinda boring really.

TheFLY

You don't even need a zero frame!

Just use img src's width=1 or width=0 or something like that at the top of your page...

I will flesh out the HTML code if anyone needs to see it.

Mike69

Ok sorry I am late getting into this..... was watching a hockey game ( It's a Canadian thing lol )

Ok, stop freaking out....

If a surfer gets sent to ibill from a guys site and the cookie is set with his code... then he goes to your site and you send him to ibill the cookie will get reset to your code no matter what the expiry date of the cookie is. Also, no one can modify the the cookie, only the site that set it can read and write to it.

I have setup a little "test" you can play with...
http://www.erasercash.com/cookietest/

Here you can view the cookie, Set it to one value on one page and then goto another page and reset it to an other value.

You can even Delete the cookie from your system...

The method to change the cookie is the same as setting it in the first place....

Hope this helps.....


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Michael Burns
Head Programmer for:
AmateurPages.com
ADULT.COM
EraserCash.com
GoFuckYourSelf.com
and more to come !!!
God I love this job!!!

TheFLY

Exactly!

Mike69

Lightning, Thanks ;-)

TheFLY

Ok that is comforting... But who decides how this is tracked? Has adult.com made this decision on its own? Or is IBill entirely in control of this "feature"?

Amputate Your Head

Mine was based solely on duration & first click in. I am missing the code that resets for a new visit to a different code, but sustains for returns to base domain type ins.... but not for long. Thank U.

Mike69

Oh, I forgot to mention.... The cookie test pages set the cookie for 3 days.

You can see it if you turn on your cookie "Warning" in your browser..



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Michael Burns
Head Programmer for:
AmateurPages.com
ADULT.COM
EraserCash.com
GoFuckYourSelf.com
and more to come !!!
God I love this job!!!

Theo

no lamborghini

Techie Media

Hey Mike, See I new you were just the person to help out here

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Theo

hey Mike, you really rock as lightning said
the cookietest page you made helped a lot.

TheFLY

Does CCBill reset the cookie w/ the last referrer regardless of the expire time?

Theo

Now Fly got ccbill on his mind

KK will shoot you,first the button, now this

Mike69

It is not in any ones control this is the nature of cookies. I guess that the "site" could check to see if the cookie is already set and then NOT reset it, extra code to slow down the system and screw the webmaster, not likley, beside it would be way to easy to spot.....



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Michael Burns
Head Programmer for:
AmateurPages.com
ADULT.COM
EraserCash.com
GoFuckYourSelf.com
and more to come !!!
God I love this job!!!

Roberto

good to see there's no way to cheat it, but that doesn't save us from 1-click-3-days-long-sales

[This message has been edited by Roberto (edited 12-06-2001).]

quiet

some (extremely) general info on ibill cookies - they last 24 hours. seemed on topic:

GotGauge

the frame page can only access the cookies for its site and the paysite can only access the cookies for its site

mailman

Intresting to say the least..

IBILL SUCKS..

CCBILL ROCKS..

Mike69

Well this is a good feature, think about it this way.
Guys surfs your site, goes to sponsor.... the cookie is set with your code...

Wife walks in and instead of signing up, he CTRL-D and then closes the window.

Day Later....

He sees the bookmark and goes back to the sponsor without hitting your site first, you'll still get credit for the sale.....

BUT
if he goes to another free site and gets back to the sponsor from the other site, your out of luck the cookie will get reset...

We have gotten more than one email about people getting signups to Cashtour sites with out sending a click for that day..

This is why....




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Michael Burns
Head Programmer for:
AmateurPages.com
ADULT.COM
EraserCash.com
GoFuckYourSelf.com
and more to come !!!
God I love this job!!!

TheFLY

You obviously didn't read the entire thread... I stated this in the 3rd post.

quiet

sure

TheFLY

Quiet... I read that entire page and it does not say a single thing about resetting the cookie before the expiration date...

I believe Mike about the "reset before expire" -- now I just want to know if this is a universal practice.

Thank you Adult.com and PornMegaBucks...

quiet

Lensman

I think the point here is, if you send a surfer to an Adult.com program, any old cookie is overwritten with a new one and you get credit.

Simple enough?

Exxxotica

Looks like another mystery solved...

and I would have gotten away if it weren't for you pesky kids!!!

Amputate Your Head

ZOINKS!!!

RedShoe

Jeepers

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</A>
BoneProne Family Member

Incognito

Exactly.
That's the only way. In case I understand You right.

Let me shed some light on the problem.

The problem DOES REALLY EXIST and any of You can easily check it.

When You click SIGNUP on any join page and go on Ibill's join page You may view source of it just like any other page. It's a secret why almost noone tries it.

And yes in fact there's a string there:
INPUT TYPE="HIDDEN" NAME="REVSHARERID" VALUE="revshareID"

So You may check it all pretty easy - which ID is there.

The fact is that...if ibill signup page is faced with a choice of a cookie ID and a browser string ID (the normal way) it prefers by default the cookie ID.

Been clinically tested.

And Yes, if Hun will imagesourse or load in a ZERO frame cookies for a certain paysite on Ibill all those surfers signups through normal AD links will be credited to him.

Unless the paysite prevents it in a very very simple way Lensman described.
I.E. overwrites the cookie from Ibill once again on a signup page and sets the correct revshare ID value from a string value.

I.E. a certain script should be installed (that's how we work for example) which should check which ID is correct and request a cookie from ibill for that paysite for CORRECT ID simply once again.

Like someone of You said "lets keep it in the family" I should say that Russian family of webmasters has been aware of that crap for over 3 monthes or so right now (I even wrote an email to You Lens suggesting to exchange some experience couple of weeks ago or so also because I was hoping that if I am not able to persuade Ibill to correct that bug - You might be able to persuade them).
As I mentioned we have been aware of it like 3 monthes because a certain partnership programm of ours has been cheated for some time (like couple of weeks or less) that way. I.E. webmasters who run toplists started loading those cookies from a ZERO frame and thus stealing signups from other webmasters. When we noticed it we have corrected the problem and from that time it does not affect our sites.

However, there's another problem with this bug You dont know and discuss yet.Clinical studies have shown it to be even more dangerous than just signups stealing. That's why I'd keep it in my family.

Ibill has been notified by us about this problem as long as two monthes ago and again couple of weeks ago and have promised us to correct it as soon as possible (basicly because of the second problem I mentioned).

Well as I said , we have a solution ready and by the way - unlike You greedy , we dont mind sharing.

So if anyone's paysites are on Ibill and You dont have the solution yet and it needs help with this subject and needs scripts to correct it - just contact me through my secret incognito email

[email protected]

P.S. Absolutely no problem exists if the partnership program uses ONLY the cookie link to track signups. Because if all webmasters send traffic via cookie links - it works fine. It just fucks up when there's a choice between a cookie and a normal way.
P.P.S. With the exception of those certain partnership programms on ibill which know about the problem and overwrite the cookie like we do and those which work with cookie links only, ALL PARTNERSHIP PROGRAMS are being affected by this bug independent of how big, known and cool they are.


[This message has been edited by Incognito (edited 12-07-2001).]

SonOfRage

One more reason to ban soviet webmasters

Incognito

oh...Son .
Been hurt by the CandidClicks thread?
Well come into that thread - I'll explain You in detail my point of view about soviet webmasters banning. In every detail.

quiet

nope. unsuspecting wb's only please.

TheFLY

VERY INTERESTING INDEED! My suspicions were validated by the mysterious Incognito...

Adult.com is the *exception* in that they have bypassed a *fault* of IBill... Adult.com's hack is a band-aid solution to a universal problem which is *already* being exploited by Russians!

By tomorrow my site will be launching cookies left and right...

TheFLY

Try the Perl and CGI Visual Quickstart Guide... I think that will explain cookies in a straightforward way for you.

4Pics

My question is why does the sponsor need to even use a cookie? They can pass page to page a refer via querystring or hidden variable on a page.

Only reason would be that you want to credit the webmaster with a signup at a later point.

If you use the querystring approach and the surfer bookmarks it will keep that in his bookmark so you'd get credit.


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4Pics - Submit your Tgp2 Galleries

awechen

with few tricks
u can reset the cookie's

easy way is .. to fake some http header's
..also is posible to read cookies from other domain's ( only IE ) ....

read the rfc2068 and rfc2109
( http://www.ietf.org/rfc )



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Trax

bad i didn´t read this earlier but i just wanted to meantion that ccbill processorts are not stupid.. they DO overwrite cookies.. everything else would be dump..

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kisslolita

As I am new to this business i might have a slightly objective perspective on the matter

Amp : What roberto was saying sounds highly reasonable.
If I advertise a sponsor and a fucker clicked on this sponsor's banner on my site, and singed up, then in my opinion I should get the credit, and not some site that this surfer visited three days ago and clicked on the same banner! That's ridiculous!!!
As to deleting this thread. I guess that cheaters are easy to come by, especially in this business (or in any other for that matter) . The question would be not how to avoid cheaters, but how to catch them redhanded and how to fuck them afterwords in order to set the example to other cheaters! Since this is all about $$$ and hard work, then the sodomization of cheaters must be cruel and efficient.

Just my opinion.

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http://www.kisslolita.net

Incognito

The FLY , it could have been so funny if it was not so sad.

Unlike many other stuff said about Ibill this is a real working bug and absolutely any sponsor who's not using cookies as the only option which is given to webmasters and not overwriting the cookie at the singup page (requires additional programming) can be abused because his webmasters may steal signups from each other till the bug is corrected.

I dont see anything really funny about it.

All I see is that You guys are a bit slow. Like 3 monthes slow.

No offense.

Incognito

1. Sponsors usually use cookies so that sales from people who like to delete additional characters in the browser string (i.e. they come from a banner to http://www.paysite.com/indexscript.p...eID=WebmasterA and delete all the indexscript.php4?RevshareID=WembmasterA just because out of interest or because they dont want someone to be credited for that sale) still will be credited to correct webmasters.

2.Ibill is built that way that it doesnt matter if any sponsor on Ibill wishes to use cookies or not.
If the webmaster gonna send traffic via Ibill's cookies - it will still be counted as good as if sponsor gave You that link.