You obviously didn't read the entire thread... I stated this in the 3rd post.

sure

Quiet... I read that entire page and it does not say a single thing about resetting the cookie before the expiration date...

I believe Mike about the "reset before expire" -- now I just want to know if this is a universal practice.

Thank you Adult.com and PornMegaBucks...

I think the point here is, if you send a surfer to an Adult.com program, any old cookie is overwritten with a new one and you get credit.

Simple enough?

Looks like another mystery solved...

and I would have gotten away if it weren't for you pesky kids!!!

http://www.exxxotica.net/stuff/scooby.jpg

ZOINKS!!! http://bbs.gofuckyourself.net/board/eek.gif

Jeepers

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<A HREF="http://www.usexfan.com/webmasters/moneymaker/" TARGET=_blank>
http://home.earthlink.net/~fxgrunt/g...-money-gfy.gif </A>
BoneProne Family Member

Exactly.
That's the only way. In case I understand You right.

Let me shed some light on the problem.

The problem DOES REALLY EXIST and any of You can easily check it.

When You click SIGNUP on any join page and go on Ibill's join page You may view source of it just like any other page. It's a secret why almost noone tries it.

And yes in fact there's a string there:
INPUT TYPE="HIDDEN" NAME="REVSHARERID" VALUE="revshareID"

So You may check it all pretty easy - which ID is there.

The fact is that...if ibill signup page is faced with a choice of a cookie ID and a browser string ID (the normal way) it prefers by default the cookie ID.

Been clinically tested. http://bbs.gofuckyourself.net/board/biggrin.gif

And Yes, if Hun will imagesourse or load in a ZERO frame cookies for a certain paysite on Ibill all those surfers signups through normal AD links will be credited to him.

Unless the paysite prevents it in a very very simple way Lensman described.
I.E. overwrites the cookie from Ibill once again on a signup page and sets the correct revshare ID value from a string value.

I.E. a certain script should be installed (that's how we work for example) which should check which ID is correct and request a cookie from ibill for that paysite for CORRECT ID simply once again.

Like someone of You said "lets keep it in the family" I should say that Russian family of webmasters has been aware of that crap for over 3 monthes or so right now (I even wrote an email to You Lens http://bbs.gofuckyourself.net/board/biggrin.gif suggesting to exchange some experience couple of weeks ago or so also because I was hoping that if I am not able to persuade Ibill to correct that bug - You might be able to persuade them).
As I mentioned we have been aware of it like 3 monthes because a certain partnership programm of ours has been cheated for some time (like couple of weeks or less) that way. I.E. webmasters who run toplists started loading those cookies from a ZERO frame and thus stealing signups from other webmasters. When we noticed it we have corrected the problem and from that time it does not affect our sites.

However, there's another problem with this bug You dont know and discuss yet.Clinical studies have shown it to be even more dangerous than just signups stealing. That's why I'd keep it in my family. http://bbs.gofuckyourself.net/board/biggrin.gif

Ibill has been notified by us about this problem as long as two monthes ago and again couple of weeks ago and have promised us to correct it as soon as possible (basicly because of the second problem I mentioned).

Well as I said , we have a solution ready and by the way - unlike You greedy , we dont mind sharing. http://bbs.gofuckyourself.net/board/smile.gif

So if anyone's paysites are on Ibill and You dont have the solution yet and it needs help with this subject and needs scripts to correct it - just contact me through my secret incognito email http://bbs.gofuckyourself.net/board/biggrin.gif http://bbs.gofuckyourself.net/board/biggrin.gif http://bbs.gofuckyourself.net/board/biggrin.gif

[email protected]

P.S. Absolutely no problem exists if the partnership program uses ONLY the cookie link to track signups. Because if all webmasters send traffic via cookie links - it works fine. It just fucks up when there's a choice between a cookie and a normal way.
P.P.S. With the exception of those certain partnership programms on ibill which know about the problem and overwrite the cookie like we do and those which work with cookie links only, ALL PARTNERSHIP PROGRAMS are being affected by this bug independent of how big, known and cool they are.


[This message has been edited by Incognito (edited 12-07-2001).]

One more reason to ban soviet webmasters http://bbs.gofuckyourself.net/board/wink.gif

oh...Son .
Been hurt by the CandidClicks thread?
Well come into that thread - I'll explain You in detail my point of view about soviet webmasters banning. In every detail.

nope. unsuspecting wb's only please.

VERY INTERESTING INDEED! My suspicions were validated by the mysterious Incognito...

Adult.com is the *exception* in that they have bypassed a *fault* of IBill... Adult.com's hack is a band-aid solution to a universal problem which is *already* being exploited by Russians!

By tomorrow my site will be launching cookies left and right...

Try the Perl and CGI Visual Quickstart Guide... I think that will explain cookies in a straightforward way for you.

My question is why does the sponsor need to even use a cookie? They can pass page to page a refer via querystring or hidden variable on a page.

Only reason would be that you want to credit the webmaster with a signup at a later point.

If you use the querystring approach and the surfer bookmarks it will keep that in his bookmark so you'd get credit.


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4Pics - Submit your Tgp2 Galleries

with few tricks
u can reset the cookie's

easy way is .. to fake some http header's
..also is posible to read cookies from other domain's ( only IE ) ....

read the rfc2068 and rfc2109 http://bbs.gofuckyourself.net/board/smile.gif
( http://www.ietf.org/rfc )



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"Shock your systemadministration! Read manual-pages!"

bad i didn´t read this earlier http://bbs.gofuckyourself.net/board/smile.gif but i just wanted to meantion that ccbill processorts are not stupid.. they DO overwrite cookies.. everything else would be dump..

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Best Paying Sponsors:
ARS - Best PayPerSignup + AVS Sponsor
ICQ: 59101924

As I am new to this business i might have a slightly objective perspective on the matter

Amp : What roberto was saying sounds highly reasonable.
If I advertise a sponsor and a fucker clicked on this sponsor's banner on my site, and singed up, then in my opinion I should get the credit, and not some site that this surfer visited three days ago and clicked on the same banner! That's ridiculous!!!
As to deleting this thread. I guess that cheaters are easy to come by, especially in this business (or in any other for that matter) . The question would be not how to avoid cheaters, but how to catch them redhanded and how to fuck them afterwords in order to set the example to other cheaters! Since this is all about $$$ and hard work, then the sodomization of cheaters must be cruel and efficient. http://bbs.gofuckyourself.net/board/biggrin.gif

Just my opinion.

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http://www.kisslolita.net

The FLY , it could have been so funny if it was not so sad.

Unlike many other stuff said about Ibill this is a real working bug and absolutely any sponsor who's not using cookies as the only option which is given to webmasters and not overwriting the cookie at the singup page (requires additional programming) can be abused because his webmasters may steal signups from each other till the bug is corrected.

I dont see anything really funny about it.

All I see is that You guys are a bit slow. Like 3 monthes slow.
http://bbs.gofuckyourself.net/board/biggrin.gif
No offense.

1. Sponsors usually use cookies so that sales from people who like to delete additional characters in the browser string (i.e. they come from a banner to http://www.paysite.com/indexscript.p...eID=WebmasterA and delete all the indexscript.php4?RevshareID=WembmasterA just because out of interest or because they dont want someone to be credited for that sale) still will be credited to correct webmasters.

2.Ibill is built that way that it doesnt matter if any sponsor on Ibill wishes to use cookies or not.
If the webmaster gonna send traffic via Ibill's cookies - it will still be counted as good as if sponsor gave You that link.

you know.. there is still a way to earn a lot of cash with cheating cookies.. i´m not going to say HOW and WHAT as this would make a few guys hate me http://bbs.gofuckyourself.net/board/smile.gif but a smart guy knows how to earn a few bucks cheating cookies. there áre already guys doing so..

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Best Paying Sponsors:
ARS - Best PayPerSignup + AVS Sponsor
ICQ: 59101924

I beleive You to be partially correct from my point of view.

I mean running around and trying to catch EVERY toplist, TGP or CJ out there who suddenly starts loading a cookie from a ZERO frame or worse from a PHP script (which makes it almost undetectable, that's how it was used in our case by the way against us) is a bit of a hard task dont You think?

Why not fix that crap so that signup page being faced with two ID's takes nornal source code ID first?
Seems a good idea to me.
http://bbs.gofuckyourself.net/board/biggrin.gif

Hmm...Cheating is bad.
Cheating Your fellow webmasters, same guys reselling someone is even worse I think.

[double post]

[This message has been edited by Incognito (edited 12-07-2001).]

wowowowow... i should have meationed that i´m not cheating using cookies... damn.. don´t understand me wrong dude. i thoughtof the poissiblities.. its the same with hitbots.. i tested hitbots on my own sites (faking few hits) to check how they work and how to detect em... this does not mean that i´m a hitbotter.. just to clear things up

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ARS - Best PayPerSignup + AVS Sponsor
ICQ: 59101924

Sorry, really sorry.
Just got You wrong - must be my perfect english.

Honestly I just take this all a bit too seriously probably...

Well anyway.
The bug is so minor that since they're aware of it - gonna be fixed soon.

I agree that cookies being overwritten on every visit is the way for billing companies to go. Then there's no worry about possible cookie hacking or tricks by previous sites... and current sales are [basically] safe.

That said, I didn't see this mentioned elsewhere...

I know cookies are supposed to be off by default (according to RFC) and in the past Microsoft has had them turned on by default. No doubt because they just love following standards http://bbs.gofuckyourself.net/board/wink.gif

However, I noticed that IE6 has cookies quietly turned off by default. It even drove me nuts for a little while when all my scripts stopped working. This was becasue it even disables session cookies unless you take the trouble to specify otherwise.

With a good portion of Joe-Sick-Packers, I'd be surprised if they even bother to check this out. In other words, as more people get new computers and/or upgrade to IE6, I think the majority of the public will probably have cookies disabled.

I would hope the answer to this is no, but: Are there any billing companies out there who rely on cookies to credit sales?

no no..it was my fault... http://bbs.gofuckyourself.net/board/smile.gif i read what i wrote again and it sounded as if i didn´t want to inform everybody because i wanted to keep it for me and not getting into trouble.. what i meant is that lot of webmasters would blame me for posting ways to cheat their programs.. which i don´t want http://bbs.gofuckyourself.net/board/smile.gif

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Best Paying Sponsors:
ARS - Best PayPerSignup + AVS Sponsor
ICQ: 59101924

I don't know what you're getting at. The percentage of surfers with cookies must be around 90% based on my own traffic estimates -- but it remains to be said that most non-adult websites on the net won't even load now without cookies (and demand the surfer to turn them on) so I think the momentum is for cookies to remain on at all times. Anyone with a few $$$ could probably get sorts of cookie stats info at http://www.statsmarket.com/ from WSS.

Can you explain this for me please? "I noticed that IE6 has cookies quietly turned off by default." Are you saying that MSIE6 has different switches for turning on and off session cookies and non-session cookies? Maybe this is the source of some headache that I have been having w/ one of my scripts. Thanks.

[This message has been edited by TheFLY (edited 12-07-2001).]

No offense taken. Sorry if I came off trying to sound funny -- but I was dead serious. After reading this entire thread -- my only conclusion is that if we aren't already spamming cookies -- then we are being left behind.

Fix this IBill!!!

You are a dangerous man.

POSTED: showdown at sunset.

;)

Actually the IE6 cookie question is one really worth mentioning here. Tracking programs like sextracker had problems with that browser when it first came out and had to modify their counter's code so as to properly credit hits from IE6 surfers. Take that a step further and any sponser account that hasn't updated their cookie tracking program for IE6 isn't crediting you for the sales......... A question to ask a sponser now would be when was the last time you updated your cookie tracking program? If it hasn't been touched in a year - RUN AWAY.

"However, I noticed that IE6 has cookies quietly turned off by default. It even drove me nuts for a little while when all my scripts stopped working. This was becasue it even disables session cookies unless you take the trouble to specify otherwise."
------------------------

How many times are we going to go over this????

IE6 does NOT have cookies turned off by default.

IE6 refuses to recognize THIRD PARTY cookies without a privacy policy on the site attempting to set the third party cookie by default.

Third party processors do NOT set third party cookies, let me mention that again as well.

As for the rest of it, ANYTHING can be cheated if someone works hard enough at it, that's a given. Webmaster fraud, cc fraud, it's come to the point where it's hack, anti-hack, crack, anti-crack. We see it every day, as does every other major program on the web.

Seeing as how I don't work for IBill I cannot and will not comment on their setup, but let's suffice it to say that it would be extremely difficult to manipulate our system and I would figure IBill's as well, especially given Mike Burns' comments.

And lest SleazyDumb stalk me back over here and start talking about my ignorance again, I will also mention that if anyone attempted to manipulate our system, the way they would have to do it would mean that we would catch them almost immediately, if not sooner.

This is the first time! Ahaha...

If you look at the segment I quoted again and you still think this is the first time we have discussed it on here, that would explain a lot about you.

So does CCBill reset a cookie before expiration? Nobody has answered this -- in this thread anyway.

Also Mike's comments seemed to only point to Adult.com's solution to the "problem" -- it has been said here that IBill still can be manipulated by default.

And what you said about "third-party" cookies makes no sense -- what is a "third-party" cookie?

Also where is the crime in setting a cookie? If I use a sponsor's own cookie CGI through an "IMG SRC" tag to load a sponsor's banner -- this is manipulation -- but is this cheating? No. Instead this seems to be what should now be common practice by all webmasters that are "in-the-know"...

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http://thefly.net/flybump.gif </A>Oh Baby! TheFLY.net

[This message has been edited by TheFLY (edited 12-07-2001).]

Each site owner controls their own cookie setup, it's in their admin.

MS definitions of first and third party cookies --

"Constants

PRIVACY_TYPE_FIRST_PARTY (0)
Refers to privacy settings for first party cookies.

PRIVACY_TYPE_THIRD_PARTY (1)
Refers to privacy settings for third party cookies

Remarks

Cookies are categorized as first-party and third-party. A first-party cookie is one that originates from the host domain. If "http://www.blueyonderairlines.com" is found in the Internet Explorer address bar, "www.blueyonderairlines.com" is the host domain. While visiting this page, if a cookie is set from a domain other than "www.blueyonderairlines.com", such as "www.fourthcoffee.com", this cookie is considered a third-party cookie."

And once again, I'll say that attempting to manipulate the cookies of a processing company is not anywhere near so easy as you would like to think.

Isn't VP a fancy name for a customer service rep that likes milk with her cookies.....