Are there still programs that don't use cascading billing?

[Kimmykim]

I'm just curious. Doesn't matter if they use NATS, MPA, Executive Stats, or their own custom in house.

[SexkeyCraig]

Hey Kimmy,
I heard NATS wasn't any good. Just kidding, but no one else is allowed to call them till we get our project launched. ;)

[magicmike]

You can bounce from Paycom to CCbill for example just using simple php. I had programmed a solution myself before we switched to Executive stats and it worked very well.

So that being said. I hope not.

[yellowmenace]

it all depends on what type of customer service you receive from the respective software...you are trusting your processing with them

[venus]

I do not use cascading billing, I do not see a reason to. I just had a signup from Russia, If I can accept memberships from countries like that then no need for cascading billing. If someone cannot join my site its because they are broke.

[pornguy]

I would not say that they are broke. But Sometimes a sign up, is not a sign up that it worth it. A charge back is not worth the few bucks you made.

[NaughtyRob]

Hey Kimmy, can we talk about mobile content delivery?

[venus]

I review all declines every night.
so far none of my russian signups have been charged back, the only countries I still block are india and romania.
with a chargeback rate of less then .2% its not something I worry about.

Originally Posted by pornguy

I would not say that they are broke. But Sometimes a sign up, is not a sign up that it worth it. A charge back is not worth the few bucks you made.

[Kimmykim]

Originally Posted by Sexkey Craig

Hey Kimmy,
I heard NATS wasn't any good. Just kidding, but no one else is allowed to call them till we get our project launched. ;)

ROFLMAO! This is really more of a billing question than a software one. I'm tight with Oystein, Brad and I met once or twice, you know ;)

Originally Posted by venus

I do not use cascading billing, I do not see a reason to. I just had a signup from Russia, If I can accept memberships from countries like that then no need for cascading billing. If someone cannot join my site its because they are broke.

Hmmm, so if your primary processor is not having a good day, how long does it take you to figure this out? And to switch all your sites to your secondary processor? And then to switch them back when you've guessed that your primary is working fine again?

And if you have specific kinds of traffic that you want to send to a certain place, let's say by reseller id, how do you do that? How long does it take you to make changes to a bunch of resellers?

It's not really about whose software you use, it's that as a program owner, I don't understand why you wouldn't use one. I've been in billing for a long time and it doesn't make sense to me. The ease of making a local change into a global one quickly and simply, having all the different stats and interfaces to do things with, that makes sense.

[Kimmykim]

Originally Posted by venus

I review all declines every night.
so far none of my russian signups have been charged back, the only countries I still block are india and romania.
with a chargeback rate of less then .2% its not something I worry about.

How many joins a day do you do, if you don't mind me asking.

[JulianSosa]

Originally Posted by venus

I review all declines every night.
so far none of my russian signups have been charged back, the only countries I still block are india and romania.
with a chargeback rate of less then .2% its not something I worry about.

Your site is down for me http://www.venuscash.com/

[WiredGuy]

I would love to see a list of programs and a yes/no option seeing if they support cascading. It seems not many programs out there are open in saying we do cascading and so forth. If it helps the bottom line, please do us both a favour and implement it

EDIT: And make sure webmasters are paid on secondary processor joins too I should add!

WG

[Tat2Jr]

I took one look at my monthly denials at Paycom vs my low chargeback ratio, and knew I couldn't wait any longer on using cascading billing, but the nice thing about NATS is the whole affiliate interface. I'd pay the price just for that, let alone cascading.

[rowan]

Originally Posted by venus

I do not use cascading billing, I do not see a reason to. I just had a signup from Russia, If I can accept memberships from countries like that then no need for cascading billing. If someone cannot join my site its because they are broke.

I've had ccbill momentarily decline my cards before. If the site had cascading billing then they would have got the signup.

[Sly]

A year ago I was working with a program that started out CCBill only. Once we switched to cascade and plugged in Epoch we saw an increase of about 10% in joins, and I've had others tell me the same. How could anyone possibly have an argument against that? Are you not in this business to make money?

[Monique Niccole]

Originally Posted by venus

I do not use cascading billing, I do not see a reason to. I just had a signup from Russia, If I can accept memberships from countries like that then no need for cascading billing. If someone cannot join my site its because they are broke.

Sometimes one processor is scrubbing much harder than another. It often has little to do with the country a sale is coming from, it has to do with the processor's c.c. scrubbing method -- and many times, those cards are perfectly good. If you have a cascading processor in place, this gets in sales that you would not have had otherwise. You're not using a lesser processor who will take "just anyone and anything", but you use one who is just as diligent in their fraud protection, but may happen to approve cards when others are scrubbing extra hard. IMHO, it's just smart business to cascade.

For anyone to say that the reason a person can't join your site is because "they're broke", just shows a lack of knowledge of processors and the issues at hand behind fraud control.

Reality Sites allows our affiliates to cascade between CCBill and Epoch in whichever order they choose. It was a custom programming job, and our affiliates are very happy with the way it's affected sales. After all, getting legitimate sales when they would have otherwise been declined is always a good thing.

[venus]

I use a merchant account, using the same one since 1998, I have zero complaints.

everything I do can be done globally. over the years I have learned to automate everything that needs to be automated. Personally I do not see a need for cascading billing. If you have total controll over your billing then there is no need. There have been a few times when my fraud defense has stopped a sale, the customer would email me back after I emailed him (as I said I follow up all potential sales, declines and such) and they would tell me they had a problem, I can go in and manually process it myself in 15 seconds. As long as he has money in the bank I can get it processed.

some people probably need cascading billing, but I see no need for it.

Originally Posted by Kimmykim

Hmmm, so if your primary processor is not having a good day, how long does it take you to figure this out? And to switch all your sites to your secondary processor? And then to switch them back when you've guessed that your primary is working fine again?

And if you have specific kinds of traffic that you want to send to a certain place, let's say by reseller id, how do you do that? How long does it take you to make changes to a bunch of resellers?

It's not really about whose software you use, it's that as a program owner, I don't understand why you wouldn't use one. I've been in billing for a long time and it doesn't make sense to me. The ease of making a local change into a global one quickly and simply, having all the different stats and interfaces to do things with, that makes sense.

[Kimmykim]

Originally Posted by Afrekete

Sometimes one processor is scrubbing much harder than another. It often has little to do with the country a sale is coming from, it has to do with the processor's c.c. scrubbing method -- and many times, those cards are perfectly good.

I agree. Since scrubbing is a very proprietary thing, somewhat akin to Pepsi and Coke keeping their exact formulas out of each others hands, it can make a difference for sure in how throughput is gained or lost.

At the end of the day, I think it also gives affiliates the impression (correctly so imo, and WiredGuy agrees from the looks of it) that the program owner is doing everything possible to maximize sales.

Way back in the stone age, before there was an internet like we know it, I used to do cold call sales training for a (nice) living -- and the last of the 5 steps to a sale is called the rehash. This means that you've already got someone on the hook as a buyer -- it's much easier to sell them something else. While this principal would seem to apply to upsells, it also can be applied to cascading billing. Why would you want to take a surfer who's actually ready to pay and not convert him if at all possible? If you give him as many options -- especially if those options are tailored to his country of origin -- to pay you, then you're bound to make more money in the long run.

[venus]

you guys have to get away from the thinking that everyone uses third party billing.
Some of us have total control over how we scrub and who we scrub. For me it does have to do with country or origin because there is a list of countries that have high fraud rates, it used to be really accurate, but as of late, some of those countries (probably with the help of US jobs being sent there) have legit sales. I have removed the countries I am willing to risk chargebacks from because their fraud rate seems to have been reduced.

Originally Posted by Afrekete

Sometimes one processor is scrubbing much harder than another. It often has little to do with the country a sale is coming from,

[venus]

If you want to maxamize sales drop third party processors and go with your own merchant account.
then and only then have you maximized your sale potential.

Originally Posted by Kimmykim

I agree. that the program owner is doing everything possible to maximize sales.

[jt420]

Originally Posted by WiredGuy

I would love to see a list of programs and a yes/no option seeing if they support cascading. It seems not many programs out there are open in saying we do cascading and so forth. If it helps the bottom line, please do us both a favour and implement it

EDIT: And make sure webmasters are paid on secondary processor joins too I should add!

WG

most programs that do cascade mention it as far as ive seen. its on the first page of the adultmegacash tour (sig ) some sort of list would be great because i have experienced better sign ups with programs that do cascade in my experiences.

[venus]

you already stated the argument, your using third party billing.

I dont understand why anyone would give another company total control over their money, I dont care how many processors you use, they still control your money and could kill your site if they chose not to pay you.
Before you rebute being paid, lets us not forget web800, ibill and the others who have closed shop owing people money.
Are you not in the business to make money, if so why take the risks to lose it all.

Originally Posted by Sly

A year ago I was working with a program that started out CCBill only. Once we switched to cascade and plugged in Epoch we saw an increase of about 10% in joins, and I've had others tell me the same. How could anyone possibly have an argument against that? Are you not in this business to make money?

[Sly]

Originally Posted by venus

you already stated the argument, your using third party billing.

I dont understand why anyone would give another company total control over their money, I dont care how many processors you use, they still control your money and could kill your site if they chose not to pay you.
Before you rebute being paid, lets us not forget web800, ibill and the others who have closed shop owing people money.
Are you not in the business to make money, if so why take the risks to lose it all.

A lot of people run CCBill, Epoch, AND a merchant account.

[venus]

or if they had a merchant account they would have got the signup.
oh ya, dont forget those HUGE negative data bases ALL third party billing processors use. You ever wonder how those are affecting your sales.
maxamize your sales and dump third party billing. It all comes down to that.

Originally Posted by rowan

I've had ccbill momentarily decline my cards before. If the site had cascading billing then they would have got the signup.

[venus]

who ?
if they do they are not educated in how things work OR they have rebills with the other companies and do not want to lose them which is smart.

Originally Posted by Sly

A lot of people run CCBill, Epoch, AND a merchant account.

[SleazyDream]

timing is everything - for kimmy to bring this topic up today with recent events we all know about makes me WORRY to say the least.

[venus]

what recent events ?

Originally Posted by SleazyDream

timing is everything - for kimmy to bring this topic up today with recent events we all know about makes me WORRY to say the least.

[SleazyDream]

Originally Posted by venus

what recent events ?

read gfy

[JulianSosa]

Originally Posted by venus

you already stated the argument, your using third party billing.

I dont understand why anyone would give another company total control over their money, I dont care how many processors you use, they still control your money and could kill your site if they chose not to pay you.
Before you rebute being paid, lets us not forget web800, ibill and the others who have closed shop owing people money.
Are you not in the business to make money, if so why take the risks to lose it all.

Venus many companies use 3rd party for a reason. Can we ask how many signups you do a day? Who does your support?

[venus]

I pay netbilling to do my phone support, all other support I do it. Support is not an issue, if your site works then there are no problems. If you have a reliable processor support is almost non existant. I just had a support question, a guy wrote and said that he now has money on his card and wants to renew, It took me all of 20 seconds to pull him up and rerun his card and re-activate his password. You cant do that with ccbill.

signups a day, it varies, the best I think was 148 new ones in a day.
30-50 new ones a day does not excite me. 20 in a day and I feel like I am going into poverty.

the only reason I can think of to use third party billing would be because you cant pay the visa and mastercard fee's. Other then that, any reason would be nixed by lower processing fee's and higher signups.

Originally Posted by JulianSosa

Venus many companies use 3rd party for a reason. Can we ask how many signups you do a day? Who does your support?

[venus]

hmm, lets see, someone is mad at someone, someone used a condom for the first time, someone is asking about tits, someone is homosexual ... nothing to important so far.
oh ya, someone like giving up his ass to inmates in a prison.

Originally Posted by SleazyDream

read gfy

[Kimmykim]

Originally Posted by SleazyDream

timing is everything - for kimmy to bring this topic up today with recent events we all know about makes me WORRY to say the least.

How many times today did I post that from everything I've personally witnessed, seen or heard, that things are fine with the situation you're referring to? I mean that or I wouldn't keep saying it.

Cascading billing and affiliate tracking systems have many convenient uses, that have nothing to do with whose software you use or who is settling your transactions.

---------------------------------------------------

venus, I notice you still haven't given me any idea of how many joins a day you do. I'm a little surprised at your lack of thought regarding diversity, I'd certainly never argue the value of a merchant account with you, as a matter of fact I underwrite merchant accounts for nice people with clean transaction histories that can bring volume to the table.

If you've got time to sit and study every one of your transactions every day, and you are running your fraud control in the way you've described, I don't mean to insult you, but it doesn't seem like you're running a lot of transactions.

But, you're convinced you are right, far be it from me to disagree.

[Kimmykim]

Originally Posted by venus

signups a day, it varies, the best I think was 148 new ones in a day.
30-50 new ones a day does not excite me. 20 in a day and I feel like I am going into poverty.

the only reason I can think of to use third party billing would be because you cant pay the visa and mastercard fee's. Other then that, any reason would be nixed by lower processing fee's and higher signups.

Sorry, I missed your numbers, glad you're doing well enough for yourself

However, your second paragraph here doesn't exactly demonstrate anything contrary to my post above this one. I somehow don't think that companies doing 2000+ signups a day are in danger of not being able to come up with the app fee to get their own merchant accounts.

[venus]

your not insulting me, you dont understand and I am aware of that.
first you have to understand that when you look through allot of anything, its like speed reading, you look for key words, when it comes to transactions, you scroll down the list and look for problems, they, in my case are usually highlighted. Its not as time consumming as you want to believe.
Before you can make any comments you have to understand the system and that this is not something I recenty started doing.
it only gets time consuming when I find something that I have to look at different pages for.
You may not know this, but there are people who actually know what they are doing in this business. A quick over view of my site, it costs me $8000-10,000$ a month to run it. that does not include hardware or software upgrades that I have to do one any of my 3 co-lo servers.

your question was who was not using it, if your plan was not to understand and make someone try to justify why they are not, I do not have the time, I will simply tell you I do not because - for a argument saving answer, I do not want to or need to, if I needed to I would do it. Its really that simple.

I agree with your below comment.

Originally Posted by Kimmykim

But, you're convinced you are right, far be it from me to disagree.

[venus]

I do not believe anyone, today, is doing 2000+ signups a day.
now if your referring to transactions, thats a different story, but not new signups. Some people like to confuse new signups with transactions.
the only ones who know how many NEW signups they do are the site owner(s)

2000 a day at 20$ would be $40,000 a day
for arguments sake add in 1000 rebills a month off each then keep multiplying that for each month they are in business and you have ..shit ..AOL?

Originally Posted by Kimmykim

. I somehow don't think that companies doing 2000+ signups a day are in danger of not being able to come up with the app fee to get their own merchant accounts.

[DirtyDanza]

Originally Posted by venus

I do not believe anyone, today, is doing 2000+ signups a day.
now if your referring to transactions, thats a different story, but not new signups. Some people like to confuse new signups with transactions.
the only ones who know how many NEW signups they do are the site owner(s)

2000 a day at 20$ would be $40,000 a day
for arguments sake add in 1000 rebills a month off each then keep multiplying that for each month they are in business and you have ..shit ..AOL?

are you serious bro? threres alot of people still doing 2000 new joins a day... some of the big players are doing that easy

[DirtyDanza]

Originally Posted by venus

I do not believe anyone, today, is doing 2000+ signups a day.
now if your referring to transactions, thats a different story, but not new signups. Some people like to confuse new signups with transactions.
the only ones who know how many NEW signups they do are the site owner(s)

2000 a day at 20$ would be $40,000 a day
for arguments sake add in 1000 rebills a month off each then keep multiplying that for each month they are in business and you have ..shit ..AOL?

let me ad I have been to offices and seen stats on that recently

[Kimmykim]

Originally Posted by venus

I do not believe anyone, today, is doing 2000+ signups a day.
now if your referring to transactions, thats a different story, but not new signups. Some people like to confuse new signups with transactions.
the only ones who know how many NEW signups they do are the site owner(s)

2000 a day at 20$ would be $40,000 a day
for arguments sake add in 1000 rebills a month off each then keep multiplying that for each month they are in business and you have ..shit ..AOL?

I don't have to insult you, that's for sure, you do a good job of making yourself out to be silly.

40,000 a day is only 1,200,000 a month in processing. I can name oh, probably a dozen plus companies in the first 30 seconds I think about it that do well over that number.

Originally Posted by venus

You may not know this, but there are people who actually know what they are doing in this business.

I'd stick to what you know, which is running your site, and leave the rest of it, you don't really don't want to bother trying to figure out a system or numbers that just don't work for you and that is cool.

Have a great evening, I'm going to read a book and get some sleep.

[SleazyDream]

Originally Posted by venus

I do not believe anyone, today, is doing 2000+ signups a day.
now if your referring to transactions, thats a different story, but not new signups. Some people like to confuse new signups with transactions.
the only ones who know how many NEW signups they do are the site owner(s)

2000 a day at 20$ would be $40,000 a day
for arguments sake add in 1000 rebills a month off each then keep multiplying that for each month they are in business and you have ..shit ..AOL?

venus darling, you are cute and I would love to have sex with you but reality is, and i'm not saying this to be mean, but reality is - you don't have a clue. i woudn't push kimmy here - she's right, not you, and she's prone to chew you up and spit you out. I don't think you even have a clue what you're dealing with there, so back out gracefully while you still can.

sorry dear.

[SleazyDream]

venus my icq is 105 713 197

trust me - you want to icq me

[Trax]

Originally Posted by SleazyDream

venus darling, you are cute and I would love to have sex with you but reality is, and i'm not saying this to be mean, but reality is - you don't have a clue. i woudn't push kimmy here - she's right, not you, and she's prone to chew you up and spit you out. I don't think you even have a clue what you're dealing with there, so back out gracefully while you still can.

sorry dear.

lol.......

[venus]

who is doing 2000 new paid joins a day.

Originally Posted by Dirty_DS

are you serious bro? threres alot of people still doing 2000 new joins a day... some of the big players are doing that easy

[BradShaw]

ES 4L

Brad Shaw approved.

[venus]

lol ...I am not pushing anyone I was answering a question, she wanted justification for my answer. Its simple.
I have a major clue - that is the reality.

Originally Posted by SleazyDream

venus darling, you are cute and I would love to have sex with you but reality is, and i'm not saying this to be mean, but reality is - you don't have a clue. i woudn't push kimmy here - she's right, not you, and she's prone to chew you up and spit you out. I don't think you even have a clue what you're dealing with there, so back out gracefully while you still can.

sorry dear.

[DirtyDanza]

Originally Posted by venus

who is doing 2000 new paid joins a day.

yior honestly telling me company's like top bucks and traffic cash gold arent doing 2000 new joins a day? get real... bro I am from vegas to live here born and raised but you gotta keep it real... there are many people doing 2000 joins a day... I have heard from ron levi's mouth that in the hay day 5-6000 new joins day in and day out... so 2000 now a days is nothing....

[HarlotCash Dyker]

Their is a basic problem with non usa webmasters using cascading billing - Most solutions use only ccbill, paycom and ibill.
Ibill are all but down and out, Paycom do not accept non usa webmasters - Which leaves us only ccbill - To cascade with whom?
Make little sense paying X amount of dollars for a system which can not be utilized fully.
However, using the tools provided by ccbill allows a denial to pop a page to a secondary processor.
I personally do not do this because sales can not be tracked correctly to ensure the affiliate gets his share.
I fully agree that by not using cascading, programmes like mine lose out both in sales and affiliate sales and are less attractive to gaining new partners - Until paycom (or other) accepts EU webmasters, we are disadvantaged.

[MikeSmoke]

Originally Posted by Tat2Jr

I took one look at my monthly denials at Paycom vs my low chargeback ratio, and knew I couldn't wait any longer on using cascading billing, but the nice thing about NATS is the whole affiliate interface. I'd pay the price just for that, let alone cascading.

that alone drove me to switch to CCBill as primary processor for my private sites that aren't run through my NATS program --- almost immediately, revenue returned to "normal" (that is, where it was before Jettis sold me to Epoch)...

[polish_aristocrat]

Nasty Dollars is doing 5000-6000 new sign ups per day from what I've read

[polish_aristocrat]

and speaking about the subject, we will start a program probably in the next months, and we don't intend to use cascading, just CCbill will be fine, at least for the beginning.

There are many single girl site networks for example, who use just CCbill and seem to be doing very fine

[corvette]

3rd party processing and merchant accounts are 2 separate animals, obviously

Venus, if a merchant account works well for you, then that is great for you ,
however, there are some obvious caveats to merchant accounts, they are not the end-all solution, look at the top 5-10 programs on the net to see what they use, how many have decided that 3rd party processing is the best route for them??and with regard to 3rd party processing, there is a validity to cascading on many separate levels (cascading from ccbill as primary, I mean ;)

There are programs that do much more than 2000 new joins a day

good thread kimmy