I agree with everything in this reply except the bit about the photographer. No we should not be concerned about him at all. He is the one who fucked up first.

I am not as concerned about the treatment she received as I am about the lack of support for the model and Unseen. He is %100 right in his post. This model, and all other models have received more disrespect here than she did from the photographer. As CDSmith said, these girls are the backbone or our industry. It surprises me how many people here find it acceptable to bite the hand that feeds them.

That pretty much sums it up as far as I am concerned.

I was just goin' extreme there for the sake of... something..

although (not this particular situation) this shit happens to photographers too... every have a model show up for a shoot and go to make a scan of her ID only to find out she's 17? The whole day is fucked from that point on. (unless you're a golfer... http://bbs.gofuckyourself.net/board/biggrin.gif )

All I'm sayin' is that people everywhere get screwed. The guy in question is undoubtedly an ass. But a legal one. The girl was either desperate for cash or very very stupid if she didn;t wanna do it and did it anyway. Either way... she owns that one. We can't babysit everyone. And especially if they're of legal enough age to be doing photo shoots in the first place.

I blame them both.
Photographer is a shit + girl was uneducated or desperate = one crappy deal.

In the end, the girl will be wiser, (hopefully), and enough word will spread that the guy will change his practices or move on to doing something else. (Models especially have a huge network of word-of-mouth referrals)

I have read all the posts, and came to this conclusion...Amp is right, and so is Bryany...

The deal is the chic was given a job..she was paid..get on with life...ya there may have been some unforeseen issues regarding who was there, but it's not a perfect world. It's the damn PORN biz, the pictures she was taking where for entertainment..no one was holding a damn gun to her head...

She learned a lesson, I am sure. She will smarten up and it won't happen again...As with life we all(well most) learn from our mistakes. That is most likely why Labret was an only child http://bbs.gofuckyourself.net/board/biggrin.gif

I'm always right... I'm 12clicks' evil bastard spawn. http://bbs.gofuckyourself.net/board/biggrin.gif

I don't know why you didn't give this model a heads up on the assholes running that show. You knew they were dicks, and sent a timid young kid over there? And you're pissed at smart ass webmasters joking about buying tickets? (this is GFY, not a MENSA convention). I think you are lashing out in anger to compensate for your guilt. Yeah, GUILT. You let that kid go over there to be exploited.

If I see a buddy of mine is trading traffic with a hitbot user, I tip him off. If I see a buddy is using a lame ass sponsor, I tip him off. And vice versa. You should have done the same. Do you think this kid is going to be trusting you? You don't think she's wondering why you didn't spell it out in small words and big letters? I know I am.

Straight up Steve.

(and lmmfao @ MENSA...) http://bbs.gofuckyourself.net/board/biggrin.gif

"I'm always right... I'm 12clicks' evil bastard spawn"

Ahhhhh Proof that cloning is a mistake! http://bbs.gofuckyourself.net/board/biggrin.gif

I'm not saying that the photographer was right but she should have left if she was not comfortable with anything.

And if the guy really is an asshole and you
know he's done shit like this in the past...
then you two (Aaron and Unseen) are partly
to blame for letting this girl go into that
situation. You said the two of you were looking out for her, right? Where were ya on that one?

And Unseen, wasn't just a few months ago that you were complaining that women were racist cause they wanted to get paid more for having sex with Black men?? Doesn't sit well with you complaining that she didn't get paid more for other people simply watching.

I hate to see someone get taken advantage of but this time it looks like she could have simply said "NO".

Finally, a post that can make me feel proud to be part of the adult industry. It's a comforting feeling to know that our industry does have morals, ethics and human compassion.

To those of you how said such things as
"And just because she's broke is no excuse. If she didn't wanna do the shoot.... walk the fuck out. Problem solved. She chose to stay"...

I would like to ask how long you stayed in a job that you didn't particularily like before starting in this business. And how many of your friends complain that they hate their jobs. What don't they just walk away... Why, because it's simply not that easy.

My biggest worry...someday a journalist will get onto this board and quote some of the entries on this board in the media. I doubt that the public will be very sympathetic to our industry when they get wind of our "it's a tough life...deal with it" attitudes.

Actually, yes it is. I discovered this a few years ago... I hated my fucking job more than anything else on Earth. Halfway through the day, I went into the office, tossed the keys on the desk, and told the boss I was going to play golf. Indefinitely. He was out in the middle of the street with the most fucking hilarious look of bewilderment on his face I ever seen as I was haulin' ass down the road in my Z.

And I never looked back. It IS just that easy. And if someone doesn't have the fuckin' dignity or common sense to trake matters into their own hands in a shitty situation, then they will forever be walked upon by the predators in this world. And I have no fucking sympathy.... because I've been there.

#4 -- burn the place down in the wee hours of the night?

Thank you - very well put.

Cheers

btw, you want a good girl manager that will get your girls work, and has had a fox news documentary done on his work email [email protected]

Aaron's comment to child porn was not the majority of his argument, and shouldn't be used solely to judge him..

Cheers

I do not think that this is a valid point. I heard rumors and I made her aware of them. I did not tell her how to run her life and I did not run my mouth about something I had no PERSONAL experience with.

I do not feel guilty about a damn thing. This girl resonded to MY ad. I referred her to Unseen not to these other assholes. I told her what I had heard about them before she even knew they existed. I was not even aware that she worked with them until Unseen informed me.

You are all right that she could have walked away. This is not the point though.

Tenletters, don't be so quick to point a finger and us. What do you expect us to do? She made her own decision. How am I supposed to change her mind about working with somebody that I was not even aware she was considering working with. This is exactly what I am talking about when I say I do not run my mouth without knowing all the facts or had personal experience with the situation.

When I was told about these guys by other models, I did not know the other girls as well as I know this one. I had no reason to to believe or disbelieve them. I simply made a mental note of it. Now I have no doubt about them and I will strongly express my feelings in the future.

Sorry, Aaron, it's my opinion and if you don't like it.. tough shit.

I did not attack you. You are welcome to your opinion as is everbody else.

The smarter people in this world get all the facts in order to avoid stating a fucked up opinion that could make themselves look like an asshole though. Now that you have replied to my relpy, I have the facts on you. You are a prick. no offense... that is just MY opinion. http://bbs.gofuckyourself.net/board/smile.gif

So then she's not some innocent "victim" here... she just made a lousy business deal.

I never said she was an innocent victim. I said the way she was treated is fucked up and anybody who thinks otherwise is a prick. How much more clear can I make this?

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Aaron Matthews Productions
http://www.aaron-matthews.com/images/100x100ad.gif
aaron-matthews.com

Okay, Aaron... please accept my apology as it looked like an attack to me.

Oh, and I did base my opinion on facts and stated "if" when basing my opinion.

I never said you were to blame... I said "if" you knew then you were to blame. You have since stated that you had only heard rumors.

And take back the "you're a prick" statement. It hurt my feelings, haha.

[This message has been edited by tenletters (edited 11-08-2001).]

I am sorry you are a prick. http://bbs.gofuckyourself.net/board/smile.gif

Seriously though, if this is where you stand then I do take it back. Chalk it up to a misunderstanding.

If anybody cares, I just called the guy that did the shoot in question. I told him what I have seen and heard and put his ass right on the spot. He tells me that they do not and have not ever sold tickets or let their members or friends attend a shoot. I do not know if this is true or not. His explanation for the additional people is: makeup lady, and different assistants along with 2 "body guards" of the other girls. I strongly suggested he exercise more caution on his shoots and consider a closed set rule. The guy is as newbiest as they come.

We are doing lunch tomorrow so I can get a better feel for what kind of guy he is. He is also going to be at AdultDex.

They dont sell tickets.. The guys watching and cheering were members of the boneprone family.

Another privalage of joining the family.

So, your attitude, I take it, is that the gals who make the stuff we like to see and sell are just whores. Do I understand the undertone of your response correctly? And that because of that there is no ethical aspect to tricking them. In that case, YOU are a snake.


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Because she's only 18 and new to the business, she didn't have a wealth of background knowledge to draw upon. I work with 18 year olds all the time, but I think their inexperience gives me a green light to trick them.



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You are so ethically out of it I don't even know where to begin, except to say that you just put everyone on notice not to deal with you, because you like to wallow in ethical anarchy.



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Inexperience is one thing... stupidity is quite another. I tend to think that anyone of the age of 18 or better is quite capable of asking a question or two. Especially if it concerned something that was bothering her about a situation. And if she's too stupid to open her mouth about it, then yes... she's probably gonna keep gettin' walked on for many years by many people.

I bet if we compared I.Q. tests between you and the girl that she would bury you. This girl is far from stupid. You, on the other hand, must have done a lot of drugs in your life. You know that shit kills brain cells? If you lose 2 or 3 more then you will be nothing more than a talking/typing monkey.

My best piece of advice for you Amp it go Amputate Your Head. You will be much better off.

You got somethin' against drugs now too?

Here's my take on this;

The girl is p/o'd

I "hope" that the guys doing the shoot crossed all their "t's" and dotted all their "I's" because if they did not...

well; legal problems with this sort of crap could well mean that you will be paying $3000.00 for a cd full of images instead of $300

funny for some, exploitive for others, I have no doubt that this will cost us money in the future, there is no end to the number of content providers who are being drummed out of town or regulated out of existance in small town America now... without reason, I would say, don't give them any more reasons to try and get rid of you http://bbs.gofuckyourself.net/board/wink.gif

It only takes one or two jerks to screw things up, and the local chamber of commerce ain't gonna support you http://bbs.gofuckyourself.net/board/wink.gif

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Actually, she is not very pissed about it. I was just speaking to her. She was concerned and will never work with them again but she is not overly pissed off. She said that "for girls with more experience, that it may have been ok." This just backs up my thoughts about knowing how to read the girls you are working with . Everybody has their own comfort level.

On an interesting note... I was out to dinner with a client last night and I mentioned this thread. Without knowing what board I was talking about, he said "it sounds like a bunch of young webmasters" he went on to specifically mention this board and 2 others. He also suggested that I review the replies again to see how many of the asshole replies were webmasters and how many were content providers. Guess what I found?

Why is it that the people who rarely deal with the girls have so much fucked up shit to say on this subject? <---Retorical question

Sorry for the big word AMP. You can feel free to look it up.

Please identify what it is I said that you consider to be "fucked up". Everything I've said is straight outta the book of Applied Reality & Common Sense. I've seen people get fucked over many times, and have been fucked over myself a few as well. I don't play "feel good" cry-for-my-poor-uneducated-sister games. If she learned from her experience, then great. If the guy is doing something illegal, shut him down. If he's just an ass, spread the word and his business will either adapt or go under. If you got a problem with me in particular, state it instead of making a bunch of childish fucking inuendos or get off my back. I'm a busy man.

Where does my last post say that you made a fucked up comment? I do not recall anything you have said to be truely fucked up. You may have a different point of view but that is not fucked up. I was referring to the people who wish to buy tickets and who made other disrespectful comments about models. We all know they were kidding but it was not funny.

As for having a problem with you... I think your views are fair but a bit out of wack at the same time. The bottom line here is that you do not support how she was treated. This makes you a good man in my book. The only reason I am giving you a hard time is because this girl is very intelligent, more so than any other model I have worked with, and you keep suggesting that she is not.

I do not feel that my comments were childish either. I think they were kinda clever. It is not my fault that they were over your head. Case in point... had you bothered to look up the word "Retorical" you most likely would not have replied to the post. This is not about you or me. This is about how people treat models and what they think of them in general.

Just a thought -- she could be using your sympathy against you. Even 18 y/o's know that they can mind fuck just about any guy. Don't trust women. They don't have a penis -- so they fuck us in other ways.

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http://thefly.net/flybump.gif </A>Oh Baby! TheFLY.net

Fair enough... I can live with that.

just my take on the subject,

I saw with my own eyes how girls get abused in this industry(by the wrong people). I have seen where they ended up and I have one thing to say: 'respect these girls' and protect them! cause if you don't some asshole WILL take advantage of here and the weak position she's often in (lack of money, drug problems, etc.)

It is our moral duty to watch over these girls and watch out for thes practices, as we are the only ones with some power and influence.

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By the way, you folks that think this is not rape should read the definition:

Main Entry: 2rape
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): raped; rap·ing
Etymology: Middle English, from Latin rapere
Date: 14th century
1 a archaic : to seize and take away by force b : DESPOIL
2 : to commit rape on

To seize and take away by force - Wasn't the girls trust violated, thus taking it away. And don't by force because she had no knowledge of it?

You decide

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High conversion Cheerleader Fetish

Well, if that's your definition and application of the word, then Microsoft has been raping us all for years.

so now I'm confused.
Can I or can't I have pony rides in the back yard for my kid's birthday?

Yes. Yes you can. So let it be written, so let it be done, and pony rides for all.

Finally, something in this thread that is debatable.

Would you be willing to settle for 3 donkeys, 1 monkey, and Gary for a half hour?

Is Gary limited to the half hour or are the donkeys and monkey also on the same time limit?

ehhe wanna add this thread is this weeks dvd winner thread

I've seen some pretty objectionable shit here, but now AaronM goes and quotes Mark Harmon from "Summer School."

Now THAT is just unacceptable.

LOL. So far you are the only one who seemed to catch that. Good for you. http://bbs.gofuckyourself.net/board/smile.gif
Nobody said I write all of my own material.

[This message has been edited by AaronM (edited 11-09-2001).]

No problem. You're forgiven, because, out of all the lame lines in that forgettable movie, you hit on one of the keepers.

Wow.. It almost sounds like we are in the "exploitation industry"


Imagine that.

Hey BP, glad to see you crawl out from that rock and get involved. Let me provide you with a basic definition of the word exploiation:

"Utilization of another person or group for selfish purposes: exploitation of unwary consumers."

Using this definition, the models would be considered the unwary party. I do not believe in having the people I work with unwary of what is going on.

Feel free to market your sites as you see fit but keep in mind that by "exploiting" people, your are only looking for legal troubles. That would mean more community service for you Pronebone.

If you want to write crap about exploitation then I suggest you quit the web business and get into journalism.

This deserves a bump.