Brad Mitchell

Everyone made me question myself, I just called American Telnet to confirm and they're telling me that it's an impossibility but conceded that perhaps there was a loophole many many years ago that might have allowed that.

Brad
SinTalk.com

Amputate Your Head

Here. This one should put an end to this debate.

Amputate Your Head

Amputate Your Head

Brad Mitchell

Once again, you didn't fully read what you posted... if you read on you would find this:

Unlike 900-number (pay-per-call) services, most 800-numbers services are free, and 800 number services may not:

? automatically transfer you to 900 numbers.

? make collect calls back to you.

? charge you simply for completing the call.

? charge for information or entertainment provided during the call, unless you:


-- use a credit card for payment, or
-- have already contracted with the 800-number service to be billed. In this case, the company must tell you its name and address, its rates and rate changes, and where to complain. In addition, the company must use a security method, like a PIN, to prevent unauthorized charges.

So there.

Brad

Amputate Your Head

Key words there being "May not"... that does not translate into "WILL not".

Here's the AT&T version.

Kimmykim

Bingo.

Amputate Your Head

From the Better Business Bureau

and a snippet to highlight:

Remember that not all 800-number telephone services are free. Some 800-number services charge for calls.

Remember, it is possible to adjust telephone systems so that outgoing 900-number calls cannot be made. However, blocking 900 or 976 numbers does not restrict unauthorized calls to 800 or international numbers.

Brad Mitchell

Okay, I challenge you to find a toll free number illegally billing to your phone line. What you referred us to says it's against the law and I challenge you to find a line that's breaking it. If there ever was one, the provider has no rights against a dispute or chargeback from your phone bill.

Most important thing here is that the practice, unlikely ever to be found, is illegal and is not implemented by any phone sex bureau that I've ever come into contact with. Seems they'd have problems with the attorney general if they had a line like that.

Those regulations state that such a provider would have to have a written agreement in place before billing your phone line.

Brad

Brad

Brad Mitchell

Once again, you didn't read:

"You may receive an automated message on your telephone that says you have won a prize or money. The message directs you to call a 2-digit code preceded or followed by the * or # key (such as *79 or 72#), and an 800 number to claim your prize. When you dial the number, you are not connected to anyone. What this procedure has done, though, is program your telephone to forward your calls to a long-distance operator. Con artists can then call your number, be forwarded to the long-distance operator and place calls that are billed to your home telephone number. "

Take note that in the above statement it's saying you have to dial two-three digits before the 800 number - anyone that can't recognize that deserves to be billed.

Brad

Brad Mitchell

Says that some 800 number services charge for calls, not that some 800 number services charge calls directly to your phone lines. All my 800 lines require a CC or check to use for access to content and will never appear on someone's phone bill.

If you want to poke fun at an illegitimate business let's all hop over to a DIALER chat area and beat them up for nothing but FALSE advertising. Now, there's a scam! I remember vividly at a party a large site operator bragging about how his new scripts did a hidden download and install, disconnected the modem, turned the volume off, and dialed out to an international or 1-900 number without ever informing the surfer.

Brad

Amputate Your Head

Here's basically the same ting, but straight from the FTC.

Anyway, my intent is not to go hunting people down who are scamming an 800 line. I'm sure there are many out there. I can point you to a hundred hosts that have statements saying "you MAY NOT host adult sites on our servers", but again, that does not translate to "will not".

My intent was to prove that it is in fact possible to be billed by an 800 number. I never claimed it was legal or not... I'm not the phone company and I'm certainly not a telecommunications lawyer. I have personally been charged for an 800 call in the past. Naturally I called the phone company bitching... and they removed it from my bill, but the point is that you can in fact be charged. Whether or not there is a legal realm for this, I admittedly am now in doubt of. But this is pretty much the end of this journey for me.

Time to move on to talk about goats or even some good ol' newbie bashing or something.... anything!

Brad Mitchell

Yes, actually it was news to me that it was even possible. If I ever come across a phone sex line like that I'll be sure to contact the FTC ;-)

Thanks for the spirited convo, that was fun!! lol

Cheers

Brad
SinTalk.Com

-Phone sex pays!

Amputate Your Head

hehe... I live for it.

jimmyf

well I can say one thing SinEmpire you have a very good looking page.

Jim

Amputate Your Head

Indeed! I was not aware that you had content to offer as well. I just added you to my "Content Favs"...

baddog

so, my question is this, do you guys finally agree with me that, No, you can not be charged for calling an 800 number? Ever.


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Amputate Your Head

No. Did you just skip to the end or something?

Za Ha

Wow,

Lots of feedback
Well Brad, Call 1-800-3733-739 and tell me if they require a cc or if they charge blindly?

Za Ha

Well Brad?

candidpublishinginc

Yes but it is illegal now. Unless the 800 number prompts for a credit card, that's fine. But short stopping the call and collect callback and the like are not allowed anymore.

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Kimmykim

I wouldn't put it past a few people to claim that their advertisements, provided they notified you of billing in the ad itself, might not make a claim to a prior written agreement.

I know it's been done, as recently as the last couple of years.

The morality or legality is not in question here either. The simple fact is that it can be done.

baddog

okay, you can accept that I know what I am talking about or not, no big deal. I have only been in the industry longer tan most of you have been alive probably, so what the fuck do I know? Oh yeah, that is right, I know that there is never a charge to the calling party with an 800 number.

and your payphone scenario would be through a privately owned pay station, and that is more likely than not, a standard POTS, loop start, telephone line, and is not a ground start, coin CLS line. The owner of the pay station is charging you for the use of their equipment, you are not being charged for calling an 800 number.

accept it or not, but this I know.



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Brad Mitchell

This line is proper, they want CC or Check for payment ;-)

Brad
SinTalk.com

Brad Mitchell

It appears that you are correct, after much research! And yes, I've met some slimy people that I wouldn't put that past. Although, I'd guess that we're looking at a very small audience of people that would risk their business for such a scam.

Personally, I'd never hesitate to call a toll free number because this industry is SO consolidated that there's really only a few players left that dominate probably 80% of the marketplace.. I barely run across lines that are out there from more then maybe 4 or 5 phone sex bureaus.

Looks like I owe you a drink in Vegas! lol It'll be hard to find a place where they're all not free.

Sincerely

Brad
SinTalk.com

candidpublishinginc

Before you need to make such bold statements, I suggest you read up on this at the ftc.gov website. The search feature works well for this.

It is possible to bill the person if they call a 800 number. Collect callback was one of the major popular method of doing it before the FTC stopped it.

The person would call a toll free number, the 800 number would capture his ANI and would say "Please hang up so we can have someone call you back!", the person would hang up and it would call them back and charge them for a collect call.

Most of the people that called didn't even realize it was a collect call, and the collect call cost $3.99 per minute.

Another method of billing for a 800 number is once again grabbing the person's ANI and charging a "misc charge" on their phone bill for the call. There are several 3rd party billers that offer the option of placing misc charges on the phone bill for things like calling cards and such. It can be easily rigged to bill for 800 calls....but you'll get busted....FAST!

Lastly, it is possible to transfer the 800 number call to a 900 number and bill the person for the 900 number even when they called an 800 number!

So baddog, please stop with the "I know what I'm talking about" bullshit because you have no clue what you're talking about in regards to telephony billing.

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Kimmykim

How about I buy you one at our party on Sunday nite at Rain?

The sad and simple fact is that ANY alternative marketing business, whether it's adult, telemarketing, etc. is always going to have its share of less than ethical people involved. Any time there is alot of money to be made more on cleverness than hard work it just goes that way.

sasush

thats enought informartion....thanks



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