VISA rules ARGH - GoFuckYourself.com

killshot · 02-01-2005, 04:01 PM

On Amazon.com you can purchase a classic novel called "Lolita" It was written in 1955 and is a story about a man and his relationship with a young girl.
It was eventually made into a movie by Stanly Kubrick.

Today I did not pass the CCBill review process because one of my models listed this book as one of her favorite novels, and so much as mentioning this book puts you in violation of VISA rules.

Why is it that Amazon.com which accepts visa can sell the book.. but i can not speak of it?

Corporate censorship is so fun.

Manowar · 02-01-2005, 04:02 PM

the words lolita on an adult site are never going to go down well. Amazon can get away with it because they have nothing to do with adult, they have books about everything.

killshot · 02-01-2005, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manowar

the words lolita on an adult site are never going to go down well. Amazon can get away with it because they have nothing to do with adult, they have books about everything.

But they sell adult books
you can buy books full of nude girls on amazon.
so i would say it does indeed involve adult

Mr.Fiction · 02-01-2005, 04:09 PM

This is one of the ways that governments do censorship now - they pressure private companies who are monopolies to censor you rather than trying to do it themselves. That way ignorant people will say "it's their right, they are just a private company" without realizing the hand that the government has in pressuring private companies.

Don't expect it to get better. Most Americans don't seem to care about free speech anymore.

First Amendment goes "too far," say students in survey
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...tudents01.html

Theo · 02-01-2005, 04:12 PM

unlucky event, but you should have predicted it

William-Xfactor · 02-01-2005, 04:13 PM

It?s called common sense.
There is no place for such words in the adult industry. No matter what the context.

Paco, of Large Cash. · 02-01-2005, 04:15 PM

Simple ... they (credit providers) are some of the biggest hypocrites out there, next to insurance agencies & brokers.

(Yes, CP is fucking bad ... no shit ... thanks for the fucking reminder, now please re-read why the sensitive or flagged word was used.)

So, persons in this industry are not allowed to appreciate the exact same art and literature that people from the 'mainstream' do/can/are.

Nice double standard ... oh yah, wait ... it is fair cause Amazon is not in the porn industry yet AMAZON SELLS PORN on their site.

killshot · 02-01-2005, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by William-Xfactor

It?s called common sense.
There is no place for such words in the adult industry. No matter what the context.

what about "Tastes like Chicken by Lolita Files" Should we censor the names of actual authors too?

killshot · 02-01-2005, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paco, of Large Cash.

Nice double standard ... oh yah, wait ... it is fair cause Amazon is not in the porn industry yet AMAZON SELLS PORN on their site.

Link doesn't work.. but ya just search for porn on amazon

Amazon sells porn.. amazon is therefor in adult..

Mr.Fiction · 02-01-2005, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by William-Xfactor

It?s called common sense.
There is no place for such words in the adult industry. No matter what the context.

Are you joking or just anti-free speech?

An adult model has a right to share the fact that she likes the classic book Lolita just as much as the next person.

If you think that words you don't like should be banned, then why not "teen" or "murder" or "gun" or "violence" or, if you are a far right winger, "porn"?

Free speech means being able to say things that offend some people. No person has ever been hurt by writing or reading the word "lolita".

The fact that high school kids don't care about free speech really shouldn't be a surprise when you look at how many people here on GFY aren't just apathetic, but are actually anti-free speech.

Paco, of Large Cash. · 02-01-2005, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by killshot

Link doesn't work.. but ya just search for porn on amazon

Amazon sells porn.. amazon is therefor in adult..

So sorry Killshot ... I was trying to prove a point (aside from my being an idiot

).

Simply go to Amazon's website and type 'porn' in their search box ... for a company that is not in the 'porn' industry, they sure do have a lot of ... uh, PORN!

Shoplifter · 02-01-2005, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by killshot

Today I did not pass the CCBill review

Finally decided to move it all to CCBILL?

What area on Maui are you in if you don't mind me asking?

William-Xfactor · 02-01-2005, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.Fiction

Are you joking or just anti-free speech?

An adult model has a right to share the fact that she likes the classic book Lolita just as much as the next person.

If you think that words you don't like should be banned, then why not "teen" or "murder" or "gun" or "violence" or, if you are a far right winger, "porn"?

Free speech means being able to say things that offend some people. No person has ever been hurt by writing or reading the word "lolita".

The fact that high school kids don't care about free speech really shouldn't be a surprise when you look at how many people here on GFY aren't just apathetic, but are actually anti-free speech.

Free speech is one thing and common sense is another.

killshot · 02-01-2005, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shoplifter

Finally decided to move it all to CCBILL?

What area on Maui are you in if you don't mind me asking?

I am upcountry, Kula

Ya, i was finally able to come up with the $ i need to switch

Paco, of Large Cash. · 02-01-2005, 04:49 PM

Common sense (CS) ?

CS tells me anything or person that sells porn is (yup, that is correct kiddies) in the porn industry, no matter if you declare it or hide the fact - I see shit loads of porn on/at Amazon.

CS is the typical defense/excuse for those that can not explain hypocrisies.

CS tells me if any given entity is permitted (being with autorization) to do something, so am I! No fucking weak-ass excuse.

MandyBlake · 02-01-2005, 04:51 PM

its not the book...its the word lolita.

killshot · 02-01-2005, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MandyBlake

its not the book...its the word lolita.

So then why can amazon use the word in the descriptions of 1,062 items on its site?

Paco, of Large Cash. · 02-01-2005, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MandyBlake

its not the book...its the word lolita.

?

Debating why Amazon can sell the word (whether in the form of a title to a book they sell or whatever), yet a model (and chances are any person from this industry that reads) can not simple use it to name one of her favorite reads, which (bingo) Amazon sells, along with all the porn.

Guess no one here can list M.Jackson's autobiography as a favorite read ... his name after all is synonymous with CP.

Mr.Fiction · 02-01-2005, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MandyBlake

its not the book...its the word lolita.

Erotic BPM looks like a community website. How can a community website not be allowed to discuss classic books?

What about GFY - it's an adult forum. Should no adult sites be allowed to have forums because someone might mention a book or movie that offends someone?

What if someone on Killshot's site wants to discuss how terrible child porn is? What if they want to talk about a news story where some priest molested a child?

People who visit adult sites shouldn't be allowed to condemn child porn or talk about the news?

Should they be allowed to talk about mainstream movies that have rape or murder in them?

Does any of that make any sense?

Paco, of Large Cash. · 02-01-2005, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.Fiction

Erotic BPM looks like a community website. How can a community website not be allowed to discuss classic books?
What about GFY - it's an adult forum. Should no adult sites be allowed to have forums because someone might mention a book or movie that offends someone?
What if someone on Killshot's site wants to discuss how terrible child porn is? What if they want to talk about a news story where some priest molested a child?
People who visit adult sites shouldn't be allowed to condemn child porn or talk about the news?
Should they be allowed to talk about mainstream movies that have rape or murder in them?
Does any of that make any sense?

No, and it never will to a person who truly has common sense

killshot · 02-01-2005, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.Fiction

Erotic BPM looks like a community website. How can a community website not be allowed to discuss classic books?

What about GFY - it's an adult forum. Should no adult sites be allowed to have forums because someone might mention a book or movie that offends someone?

What if someone on Killshot's site wants to discuss how terrible child porn is? What if they want to talk about a news story where some priest molested a child?

People who visit adult sites shouldn't be allowed to condemn child porn or talk about the news?

Should they be allowed to talk about mainstream movies that have rape or murder in them?

Does any of that make any sense?

Makes sense to me

I just think there needs to be better flexability here
If my site was using the word "lolita" in an attempt to draw in customers looking for CP.. yeah, that is wrong and i would never do that and i can understand visa rules not allowing that word for that reason.

but when a community of models and members want to have harmless discussion.. or talk about a favorite book that has been enjoyed by many many people in mainstream culture.... i think they should be allowed to.

swedguy · 02-01-2005, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MandyBlake

its not the book...its the word lolita.

BIG difference between

"Lolita by Vladimir Nobokov"

and

"1000 pics of horny lolitas"

William-Xfactor · 02-01-2005, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by killshot

Makes sense to me

I just think there needs to be better flexability here
If my site was using the word "lolita" in an attempt to draw in customers looking for CP.. yeah, that is wrong and i would never do that and i can understand visa rules not allowing that word for that reason.

but when a community of models and members want to have harmless discussion.. or talk about a favorite book that has been enjoyed by many many people in mainstream culture.... i think they should be allowed to.

As an adult Webmaster you understand the stigma that is associated with such words. You already had your site canned by ccbill, so ask your self this. Is it really worth it?
Common sense should tell you no.

swedguy · 02-01-2005, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by William-Xfactor

As an adult Webmaster you understand the stigma that is associated with such words. You already had your site canned by ccbill, so ask your self this. Is it really worth it?
Common sense should tell you no.

So it should be forbidden to say that you have "2 children" in your bio on an adult site since the word "children" is not something you want associated with porn?

Mr.Fiction · 02-01-2005, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by William-Xfactor

As an adult Webmaster you understand the stigma that is associated with such words. You already had your site canned by ccbill, so ask your self this. Is it really worth it?
Common sense should tell you no.

So what exactly do you think the entire adult industry supposed to do - ban people from talking about things that everyone else is talking about?

You are posting on an adult forum which is part of an adult company that has credit card processing. Do you think that credit card companies should cancel processing for any site linked from this forum because people on this board discuss news stories and movies and other things that contain words you don't like?

Answer this - why should an adult community not be allowed to talk about the news or mainstream movies?

Kimmykim · 02-01-2005, 05:37 PM

Visa doesn't care about Nabokov, they don't care about porn, and they don't care about Amazon.

Visa is about protecting their brand. Selling a book that's a classic is fine within their brand strategy, selling a membership to a site called Lolitas is not within their brand strategy.

William-Xfactor · 02-01-2005, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swedguy

So it should be forbidden to say that you have "2 children" in your bio on an adult site since the word "children" is not something you want associated with porn?

Now you?re just being silly.

freeadultcontent · 02-01-2005, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by William-Xfactor

Free speech is one thing and common sense is another.

You lost me after free speech.
Text should always be protected, even if it is completely fucking sick and wrong. With the legal exception of libel.

Mr.Fiction · 02-01-2005, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kimmykim

Visa doesn't care about Nabokov, they don't care about porn, and they don't care about Amazon.

Visa is about protecting their brand. Selling a book that's a classic is fine within their brand strategy, selling a membership to a site called Lolitas is not within their brand strategy.

The site is called "Erotic BPM" and on that site they have a place where models or members can list their favorite books and one of them listed the book Lolita.

Do you think that Visa should ban adult sites from having forums because some member might talk about a movie, book, or news story that might offend someone?

What about the example of GFY itself? People here talk about everything you can imagine - should this forum be banned by Visa from processing? What about sites linked from it?

killshot · 02-01-2005, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by William-Xfactor

As an adult Webmaster you understand the stigma that is associated with such words. You already had your site canned by ccbill, so ask your self this. Is it really worth it?
Common sense should tell you no.

Is what worth it?

I have thousands of user profiles and discussions that happen on the site.
and while i monitor things and moderate as best i can.. i cant see everything that is said.. i didnt even know the word existed on my site until they told me.

it seems stupid i should have to censor things down to individual words without considering context

Example... once someone made a post about how disgusting it is that these "artistic nude" and "teen model" sites are allowed to exist.
An intelligent conversation followed. but certain words could have been said that might not be allowed. Should i have to ban conversations like that? even though it is a conversation condemning such things?

Shoplifter · 02-01-2005, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kimmykim

Visa doesn't care about Nabokov, they don't care about porn, and they don't care about Amazon.

Visa is about protecting their brand. Selling a book that's a classic is fine within their brand strategy, selling a membership to a site called Lolitas is not within their brand strategy.

KK has such a way with words. Succinct and true.

killshot · 02-01-2005, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kimmykim

selling a membership to a site called Lolitas is not within their brand strategy.

ummm yeah.. i'm not selling memberships to a site named that..

Mike Okitch · 02-01-2005, 05:45 PM

It's sad to say but double standards do exist.

Mr.Fiction · 02-01-2005, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shoplifter

KK has such a way with words. Succinct and true.

It may be true but it is irrelevant in relation to the site in question, which is called "Erotic BPM" not "Lolitas".

It would be interesting to know what KK thinks about the actual site and the actual content that was flagged.

swedguy · 02-01-2005, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by William-Xfactor

Now you?re just being silly.

No, I'm not. It's the same thing. It's all about the context.

killshot · 02-01-2005, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.Fiction

It would be interesting to know what KK thinks about the actual site and the actual content that was flagged.

Here is a copy of the profile flagged (uploaded somewhere else so not to offend visa)

Link

William-Xfactor · 02-01-2005, 06:01 PM

My last post in this thread have work to do sorry.

This debate could go on forever but at the end of the day,
Whether it?s right or wrong. The word is frowned upon by visa, why risk your business.
Common sense people.

Cheers

jimmyf · 02-01-2005, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by William-Xfactor

As an adult Webmaster you understand the stigma that is associated with such words. You already had your site canned by ccbill, so ask your self this. Is it really worth it?
Common sense should tell you no.

I would think so..

don't think I would have posted on GFY either. But that's just what my common sense tells me.

GatorB · 02-01-2005, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manowar

the words lolita on an adult site are never going to go down well. Amazon can get away with it because they have nothing to do with adult, they have books about everything.

NO they have NOTHING ot do with ADULT

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/se...479265-8088121

Shoplifter · 02-01-2005, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.Fiction

It may be true but it is irrelevant in relation to the site in question, which is called "Erotic BPM" not "Lolitas".

It would be interesting to know what KK thinks about the actual site and the actual content that was flagged.

The point is that it doesn't matter.

CCBill ran a word filtering script and it came up positive. Just fix it and move on.

Young · 02-01-2005, 07:04 PM

Do you actually think those idiots took time to read your whole site????

They most likely either searched it or briefly skimmed through it. Saw Lolita and flagged it....period. They don't have time to read about walks on the beach and cookies and cream ice cream

killshot · 02-01-2005, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shoplifter

The point is that it doesn't matter.

CCBill ran a word filtering script and it came up positive. Just fix it and move on.

I fixed it.. but i'm still going to bitch about it.

I don't know why it is so easy for huge corporations to push americans around
we just keep saying "deal with it"

Soon enough the wishes of all those high school students who want press to be government approved will come true..

Wiggles · 02-01-2005, 07:09 PM

amazon is less likely to have underage models then a random website on the internet.

killshot · 02-01-2005, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wiggles

amazon is less likely to have underage models then a random website on the internet.

What about the girls that model "lolita" underwear on amazon?
they could be underage. maybe amazon.com is trying to lure in guys looking for underage girls modeling underwear

GatorB · 02-01-2005, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wiggles

amazon is less likely to have underage models then a random website on the internet.

I think it has to do more with that Amazon brings in more $$$$ ot Visa and some ma and pop website.

Mr.Fiction · 02-02-2005, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GatorB

I think it has to do more with that Amazon brings in more $$$$ ot Visa and some ma and pop website.

That is probably the bottom line.

Cassie · 02-02-2005, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by killshot

But they sell adult books
you can buy books full of nude girls on amazon.
so i would say it does indeed involve adult

they sell adult books, adult toys, adult supplements.

i am baffled by the logic as well.

Kimmykim · 02-02-2005, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.Fiction

It may be true but it is irrelevant in relation to the site in question, which is called "Erotic BPM" not "Lolitas".

It would be interesting to know what KK thinks about the actual site and the actual content that was flagged.

It doesn't matter one bit what I think about the book, the site, the word or the Visa brand. I'm not in charge over there. They are a private company and they have the right to do what they feel like they want to in order to run their company and protect their brand. Including being complete jerks if they feel like it.

Not a thing that can be done about it but to try and find as many alternative billing methods for your site that you can.

02-01-2005, 04:01 PM	#1
killshot Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OGG / PDX Posts: 456	VISA rules ARGH On Amazon.com you can purchase a classic novel called "Lolita" It was written in 1955 and is a story about a man and his relationship with a young girl. It was eventually made into a movie by Stanly Kubrick. Today I did not pass the CCBill review process because one of my models listed this book as one of her favorite novels, and so much as mentioning this book puts you in violation of VISA rules. Why is it that Amazon.com which accepts visa can sell the book.. but i can not speak of it? Corporate censorship is so fun. __________________

02-01-2005, 04:09 PM	#4
Mr.Fiction Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Free Speech Land Posts: 9,484	This is one of the ways that governments do censorship now - they pressure private companies who are monopolies to censor you rather than trying to do it themselves. That way ignorant people will say "it's their right, they are just a private company" without realizing the hand that the government has in pressuring private companies. Don't expect it to get better. Most Americans don't seem to care about free speech anymore. First Amendment goes "too far," say students in survey http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...tudents01.html __________________ Don't be lazy, protect free speech: ACLU \| Free Speech Coalition \| EFF \| IMPA

02-01-2005, 04:15 PM	#7
Paco, of Large Cash. Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: --> . <-- Posts: 2,267	Simple ... they (credit providers) are some of the biggest hypocrites out there, next to insurance agencies & brokers. (Yes, CP is fucking bad ... no shit ... thanks for the fucking reminder, now please re-read why the sensitive or flagged word was used.) So, persons in this industry are not allowed to appreciate the exact same art and literature that people from the 'mainstream' do/can/are. Nice double standard ... oh yah, wait ... it is fair cause Amazon is not in the porn industry yet AMAZON SELLS PORN on their site. Last edited by Paco, of Large Cash.; 02-01-2005 at 04:17 PM..

02-01-2005, 04:49 PM	#15
Paco, of Large Cash. Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: --> . <-- Posts: 2,267	Common sense (CS) ? CS tells me anything or person that sells porn is (yup, that is correct kiddies) in the porn industry, no matter if you declare it or hide the fact - I see shit loads of porn on/at Amazon. CS is the typical defense/excuse for those that can not explain hypocrisies. CS tells me if any given entity is permitted (being with autorization) to do something, so am I! No fucking weak-ass excuse. Last edited by Paco, of Large Cash.; 02-01-2005 at 04:51 PM..

02-01-2005, 04:51 PM	#16
MandyBlake The one and only! Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 17,761	its not the book...its the word lolita. __________________ Mandy's Playhouse Her First Fat Girl If you're interested in promoting my sites, ICQ me! 178411921

02-01-2005, 04:02 PM	#2
Manowar jellyfish Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 71,528	the words lolita on an adult site are never going to go down well. Amazon can get away with it because they have nothing to do with adult, they have books about everything.

02-01-2005, 04:12 PM	#5
Theo HAL 9000 Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 34,515	unlucky event, but you should have predicted it

02-01-2005, 04:13 PM	#6
William-Xfactor Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Melbourne Posts: 299	It?s called common sense. There is no place for such words in the adult industry. No matter what the context.

02-01-2005, 05:37 PM	#26
Kimmykim bitchslapping zebras!!!!! Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: In a shack by the beach Posts: 16,015	Visa doesn't care about Nabokov, they don't care about porn, and they don't care about Amazon. Visa is about protecting their brand. Selling a book that's a classic is fine within their brand strategy, selling a membership to a site called Lolitas is not within their brand strategy.

02-01-2005, 05:45 PM	#33
Mike Okitch Confirmed User Join Date: May 2004 Location: Guantanamo Bay, Cuba Posts: 4,126	It's sad to say but double standards do exist. __________________ SIG TOO BIG! Maximum 120x60 button and no more than 3 text lines of DEFAULT SIZE and COLOR. Unless your sig is for a GFY top banner sponsor, then you may use a 624x80 instead of a 120x60.

02-01-2005, 06:01 PM	#37
William-Xfactor Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Melbourne Posts: 299	My last post in this thread have work to do sorry. This debate could go on forever but at the end of the day, Whether it?s right or wrong. The word is frowned upon by visa, why risk your business. Common sense people. Cheers

02-01-2005, 07:04 PM	#41
Young Bland for life Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 10,468	Do you actually think those idiots took time to read your whole site???? They most likely either searched it or briefly skimmed through it. Saw Lolita and flagged it....period. They don't have time to read about walks on the beach and cookies and cream ice cream

02-01-2005, 07:09 PM	#43
Wiggles Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 14,423	amazon is less likely to have underage models then a random website on the internet. __________________ no sig