Losing Sales? Rebills dropping? Here's a good bet why...

[Greg B]

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...home-headlines

Network Too Full of Spies
Fed up over problems stemming from viruses and spyware, more computer users are giving up or curbing their use of the Internet.

By Joseph Menn, Times Staff Writer


Stephen Seemayer had the first Pong video game system on his block. A decade later, the Echo Park artist was the first of his neighbors to get a personal computer. And in 1996, he was so inspired by the World Wide Web that he created a series of small paintings for viewing over the Internet.Now the 50-year-old Seemayer is once again on the cutting edge: Sick of spam clogging his inbox and spyware and viruses crashing his system, Seemayer yanked out his high-speed connection.

"I'm not going to pay for something that I can't use," he said.

A small but growing number of frustrated computer owners are coming to the same conclusion. They're giving up or cutting back their use of the Internet, especially at home, where no corporate tech support team will ride to their rescue.

Instead of making life easier ? the essential promise of technologies since the steam engine ? the home PC of late has made users feel stupid, endangered or just hassled beyond reason.

Seemayer's machine, for instance, got so jammed with spam that he stopped checking e-mail. When surfing the Web, pop-up ads from a piece of spyware he couldn't wipe out spewed sexually explicit images and used so much computing power that the PC would just stop.

"I could be sitting here in the living room reading a book," Seemayer said, "and I'd hear my son scream: 'It froze up on me again!' "

So when his son left for college in September, Seemayer finally unplugged.

Now when he uses his computer, it's to compose letters or organize photos ? anything that doesn't require interaction with any other system.

Seemayer is still in the minority. Overall Internet use continues to grow.

But 2004 "was a real turning point in a bad direction," said technology analyst Ted Schadler of Forrester Research. "People are getting really angry. They're angry at Dell and Microsoft and their cable providers, and that's appropriate. They should be."

In a recent survey, 31% of online shoppers said they were buying less than before because of security issues. And though more people are signing up for high-speed, commerce-friendly connections, the proportion of U.S. Internet users paying for things online barely budged in 2004 from a year earlier. It rose to 27% from 26% in 2003 after jumping from 20% the previous year, according to Harris Interactive.

For many, spyware was the last straw. During the last 18 months, the sneaky programs have soared to the top of the list for tech woes, triggering the most tech support calls to Dell Inc., the nation's top PC maker. Spyware lurks on as many as 80% of computers nationwide, according to the National Cyber Security Alliance, a trade group.

Spyware generally transmits information to third parties and sometimes takes control of a PC, usually to display ads. The most pernicious varieties have instructed millions of computers to make expensive toll calls and logged every keystroke on other machines, sending account numbers and passwords to identity thieves.

No one is immune. Microsoft Corp. Chairman Bill Gates discovered spyware on his personal machine not long ago.

The aggravation level has reached the point that some in the computer industry believe it threatens to undermine advances of the last decade, during which Internet use has climbed from virtually nothing to a global community of 800 million souls. They say they need to act before the same early adopters who led mainstream Americans online lead them off.

"If, as an industry, we're not able to provide a safe, reliable computing environment, we do think consumers will get increasingly frustrated," said Michael George, general manager of Dell's U.S. consumer business. "We're concerned, and we want to get to a position where we play an instrumental role in fixing the problem."

It may well be up to private enterprise. Congress and the Federal Trade Commission are exploring a crackdown on spyware, but government efforts to stop a previous online scourge, spam, have had limited results ? as many with an e-mail account will attest.

<snip>

[iBanker]

A little drastic to think people would be losing sales with an industry that grows so fast.

[mardigras]

He's too busy knowing everything to have checked out anti-spyware programs

[Greg B]

iBanker, that's what I would assume as well. Yet if you do a 'surfer scan' and just spend time as a surfer bouncing around to galleries and sites and then run your anti-spyware program you'll find more shit than dung beetle after a constipatede elephant asskickin' contest.

The web grows for the same reason any other industry grows: security. Sure products and services attract, but honesty and security secure and expand.

It's only a matter of time before some greedy bastard comes up with some new program that FUBARs the entire web to such a degree that we'll either lose half the surfers or we'll end up going back to text.

[FIX01]

Just opens another market: Spyware Removal Programs

[XpressMedia]

fuck Spyware!

[SteveLightspeed]

http://www.lightspeedsupport.com/faq.php?r=cservice

We are giving surfers an idea of whats going on. I've seen sites popping over our own tours because of spyware. We have members who can't access our sites because their computers have so much bullshit spyware loaded on them.

Steve Lightspeed

[xclusive]

Spyware is controlled by just a few companies on a large scale if they were brought down the internet would grow even faster.

[hydro]

I hate spyware but at the same time i love it. Its my #2 mainsream income source but its almost sickening how much spyware is out there

[sumphatpimp]

this is why Microsoft bought that spyware company and are giving out the free spyware program, they were getting hurt too.

later they will charge for it.

[Greg B]

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

http://www.lightspeedsupport.com/faq.php?r=cservice

We are giving surfers an idea of whats going on. I've seen sites popping over our own tours because of spyware. We have members who can't access our sites because their computers have so much bullshit spyware loaded on them.

Steve Lightspeed

Steve, now that I know that your company is one of the rare few that's out there helping people it makes me feel far more confident that Lightspeed is a company that's worthy of marketing. Customer service is the highmark of credible and honorable business models. I'll be signing up shortly

[sixxxthsense]

fucking NOOOBBS!!!

[Rui]

The guy mentioned in that article is stupid...on one hand he seems to think he is cutting edge. on the other he can't even sort his pc and use it properly to avoid virus/worms/trojans...

Dumbfuck...

[jt420]

i had some pretty nasty spyware this week myself that i coudnt get rid of for a while. it was blazefind or some crap, it kept causing a loop on windows login that would log me out right after getting in. quite fucking lame, but thats why i keep shit backed up.

[Paco, of Large Cash.]

Originally Posted by hydro

I hate spyware but at the same time i love it. Its my #2 mainsream income source but its almost sickening how much spyware is out there

So let me see if I read your post correctly ... you sell or promote spyware?

[crockett]

Any of you freaking morons that think installing spayware is good should be shot at the next convention. I used to do service calls for a large ISP and I would guess at least 80% of the issues were spy ware related. I'm honestly surprised the FDA hasn't stepped in and started laying the smack down some of these spy ware programs. Honestly I can't wait until they do.

I'm normally against Microsoft taking over every market but in reality, I think if they add their spyware removal as part of their OS will be the only way to stop this shit. As the average person on line is too stupid to know about spy ware removal programs, let alone what spyware is. They just get pissed and blame the ISP and then cancel and forget about the internet.

These fucking poll smokers are doing nothing but ruining the internet all for a quick lazy buck.

They have all these new laws about spam which in reality hurts nothing, but spyware is allowed. Fucking pathetic IMO.

[Dirty Dane]

I bet torrent files is an accelerated problem/reason why people dont buy porn. Now and in even more in the future.

[Paco, of Large Cash.]

Originally Posted by crockett

Any of you freaking morons that think installing spayware is good should be shot at the next convention. I used to do service calls for a large ISP and I would guess at least 80% of the issues were spy ware related. I'm honestly surprised the FDA hasn't stepped in and started laying the smack down some of these spy ware programs. Honestly I can't wait until they do.
I'm normally against Microsoft taking over every market but in reality, I think if they add their spyware removal as part of their OS will be the only way to stop this shit. As the average person on line is too stupid to know about spy ware removal programs, let alone what spyware is. They just get pissed and blame the ISP and then cancel and forget about the internet.
These fucking poll smokers are doing nothing but ruining the internet all for a quick lazy buck.
They have all these new laws about spam which in reality hurts nothing, but spyware is allowed. Fucking pathetic IMO.

Well put crockett - I spend a large part of my day personally assisting our members with all forms of intrusions. Webmasters and programs that excercise such practices are supporting or are terrorists!

... and people have issues with spammers? (I'd sooner deal with an e-mail.)

[Furious_Male]

Yea he sounds cutting edge

Seemayer's machine, for instance, got so jammed with spam that he stopped checking e-mail

His machine got jammed with spam. Right..

Basic education is the key. I have some clients that were so non technical its was suprising they could even turn a computer on. I clean there machines once (for a fee of course) and then educate them as well as provide them with the tools they need to keep the machine clean.

I have yet to have a customer have a repeat problem. Sure I dont get paid to clean the machine again, but I have a bit more computer savvy client that now trusts me to market there business or whatever I may doing for them.

They guy in this article sounds like the type that thinks hes cutting edge and knows it all. The type that wont pay for help or even take free suggestions because hes been doing this since 1996. Sad.

[RottenPug]

Spy/adware are definitely major problems that the industry has to address since they do cut into our profits against our will. Others are stealing food from my plate, I am not happy about it!

[The Bootyologist]

i hate that shit

they should be prosecuted

[Paco, of Large Cash.]

Over the years many of the people I built systems for have simply disconnected themselves: "it is no longer worth it - the amount of problems I suffer and the amount of times I need to call you (me) exceeds what I gain ... Your industry is ruining the internet and is denying people what it has to offer...?

Now, before anyone calls down the person for his or her comment, think long and hard about it ... (done? That was not long enough, get back to thinking).
Yes, I do defend PORN, but not the rest as that is not what we (the honest webmaster) or what our industry is about (as with every industry, there are scumbags dipping their hand into the donation box).
The only thing human beings (again, honest people) can do is gather them into a corner, label them clearly (public awareness is very important in my eyes) and outcast or boycott them, completely! Problem is greed steps in and many (once good peeps turned trash) succumb. What many are willing to do for money is sickening!

[Paco, of Large Cash.]

E-mails or spam are easy to deal with: make a list of most (I'd say all but some will say how do I know who is e-mailing me) of your contacts and set the fricken RULES offered by all good mail clients (Firebird). Next, set rules for certain phrases or words (think 'Rolex').

All member support e-mails go to the proper folder.
All webmaster e-mails go to the proper folder.
All potential sales queries (content, feeds, yadda-yadda) go to the respective folder.
All mail that I do not expect is spam! I quickly scan the folder and shift-delete. (Not my fault if a company cannot pick up good e-mail practices and why would one deal with a company that cannot handle something so simple.)

Anyone send me an e-mail with the incorrect subject line 'you?ve got to see this...' 'here is that file' and etc is an idiot!
All my e-mails go out more or less the exact same way (certain text clearly listed in the subject line, the exact same way every time) and you cannot mistake my mail for spam.

It is funny the way the brain can actually work for you, yet some use it against themselves.

[LA Mike]

Originally Posted by XpressMedia

fuck Spyware!

I agree.. spyware is bad for everyone... I hate it. And everyone once in ahwile one of our advertisers will try to use it. And its so easy to catch them when they do cuz I usually get some mom emailing me all pissed off that thier kids are having our shit pop up on their screen.

If you use spyware you have absolutely NO morals and thats sad!

[Trax]

you know whats the real problem is: surfers got no money.

I hear everyday: Site is great... but I have to cancel because my limit is maxed out... I will signup again later...

[Paco, of Large Cash.]

Originally Posted by Trax

you know whats the real problem is: surfers got no money.

I hear everyday: Site is great... but I have to cancel because my limit is maxed out... I will signup again later...

I consider that a polite brush-off. Over the years, I have heard the same story yet see them join one of our other big dick sites. If it happened once or twice, I would not spend time thinking about it but I notice many members seen to think they need an excuse to leave.

[Groove]

Originally Posted by hydro

I hate spyware but at the same time i love it. Its my #2 mainsream income source but its almost sickening how much spyware is out there

WTF!

[phatbiatch]

Typical Male

[GatorB]

Originally Posted by Greg B

Instead of making life easier ? the essential promise of technologies since the steam engine ? the home PC of late has made users feel stupid

Most are. I know lots of people that go to Wal-Mart buy a computer and don't know the first damned thing about nor do they care to learn. They go on the internet nilly-willy. No anti-virus, no anti-spyware no firewall no nothing. Then wonder why they have problems. Kind of like a guy fucking a crack whore without a comdom then wondering why he got herpes.

[SmokeyTheBear]

i wonder if we will hear from 12clicks van der smoot

[cherrylula]

I know people just like this. They are terrified of the internet because of all the infections.They don't know how to maintain their computers to work online because of all the dirty shit that goes on.

And regardless of what word is used, spyware/adware etc, probably an easy 75% of surfers still refer to and call any computer malfunction a VIRUS. So go figure.

[Donny]

Time for him to buy a Mac.

[Donny]

Originally Posted by DonovanPhillips

Time for him to buy a Mac.

And to use Spamarrest.com

[aaron]

my dad keeps telling me i should do a spyware removal business... anyone else read articles on those guys coming out to peoples houses just to clean up their shit and spyware? to this day people still dont know what the fuck they are doing on the computer i guess

[Paco, of Large Cash.]

Originally Posted by phatbiatch

Typical Male

nooo ... putting on the pants and sneakin out while the fem sleeps is typical.

[Furious_Male]

Originally Posted by aaron

my dad keeps telling me i should do a spyware removal business... anyone else read articles on those guys coming out to peoples houses just to clean up their shit and spyware? to this day people still dont know what the fuck they are doing on the computer i guess

I do it.. Right now its for existing clients and any contacts they may have. I don't advertise or anything at this point, but I am sure it could be lucrative. I have worked with some people that are just so distraught over not being able to get online they would pay anything to get it fixed.

I am more concerned with the liability issue if I were to do this outside my existing client base. I can see someone doing this get blamed for additional problems etc. I imagine an attorney would have to create a very good release waiver for use.

[AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE]

I have invested over 15,000 dollars in stocks with 3 Internet Security companies that specialise in this very issue.

If ya give a fuck about breaking the cycle of spyware put your money where your mouth is and make a few bucks in the process.
One of the companies had a huge jump yesterday, so keep making spyware It only means more money for me at this point

[Rorschach]

I think there could be real money in a stripped back, enterprise scale, user friendly, secure Linux distribution that let people just surf, use email, watch movies etc. without the spyware hassles.

[magicmike]

My dads computer was pretty bad, spyware, adware everywhere. Ran a couple of removers got rid of most and the downloaded firefox as well.

[bangman]

It's sad really.
I remember back when spyware didn't even exist, and when it first came out it was only on illegal sites and all. Now it is all over the Internet.

The other day my grandmom called me all upset. Her computer was so fucked (even though I regularly updated her, she seemed to want to close the Norton programs all the time heh) that she went out and bought a brand new machine and gave her old one to me. It's a nice machine but unfortunatly what she doesn't realize is that the problems weren't with the computer itself, they were from the Internet.

I feel so bad for those not too computer literate. It must be so frustrating.

[SykkBoy]

I know people who've given up entirely on the Internet...oh and these people used to actually buy porn memberships...think of all those lost customers...

[ricks]

Originally Posted by LAMike

If you use spyware you have absolutely NO morals and thats sad!

who died and made you a judge of morality, mr. pornographer?

[ULVideo]

Originally Posted by crockett

I'm honestly surprised the FDA hasn't stepped in and started laying the smack down some of these spy ware programs.

I would be really shocked if the FDA ever did anything about spyware ;).

[Quickdraw]

I downloaded Hotbar again today.

My findings have not been good.

[FTVGirls]

its true, I do make multiple rules for spam email, but they are constantly changing the variants of viagara and mortgage etc... at this point I have 320 rules and growing. Its irritating, and even protecting yourself like this shouldn't really be necessary, they just need to be stopped. And spyware... an evil worse than email spam.

[FTVGirls]

forget spamarrest, its good for less important email accounts (like my personal one for family etc) but you will end up losing a lot of customers if you put it on your members/info/customer contact.

[Kimmykim]

Originally Posted by ULVideo

I would be really shocked if the FDA ever did anything about spyware ;).

Hahaha, you beat me to it!

Spyware certainly plays a part in the reduction in profits in the industry.

BUT... let's not forget a few other things that might have some bearing here.

1. Not as many "virgin" surfers out there as there once were, and the influx of people getting their first internet connection is dwindling as well. The surfer base is much more savvy now, they know how to get free porn, they understand how to cancel a trial, and they know they can get a credit or a chargeback with a phone call if they choose.

2. Shitty sites and shitty promotional schemes that burn surfers out faster than anything else. I'll include sites that don't update, sites that just plain suck, fraudulent resellers, and the general overmarketing of sites caused by the reseller system.

3. Billing issues. We'll toss in the ever-growing negative database, the ever shrinking pool of good BINs, and the fact that banks aren't real happy from an issuing standpoint with this industry -- before you even begin to talk about all the dirty tricks that have gone on over the years in acquiring.

4. The novelty of the internet is going to wear off. It's just like a toy for people that don't depend on it for their livelihoods -- I'd compare it to getting a new boat, motorcycle, whatever... you use the hell out of it when it's new but then you move on to other things for entertainment.

5. And of course last but not least, for anyone who actually believes the profit margins and bottom lines that were seen in the last few years for many companies are indicative of continuing returns on that level, I'd suggest you sign up for Economics 101 -- either macro or micro -- at the local community college and familiarize yourself with terms like the Law of Diminishing Returns and the Supply and Demand Curves.

And I didn't even mention free porn but once in that statement.