Wizdom, you're still not saying what the hell it is you WANT. What do you want? Tell us the right way according to Wizdom. K?

All that flaptrap arguments you've presented is just that...fluff. In light of what happened Sept. 11th and since, it all is about a useful as the blabberings of the monday-morning quarterback. Hindsight is 20-20, right? 12clicks nailed it when he said he has the smarts not to question the motives and methods of the military.

When Bush 41 sent troops to arrest General Noriega on a drug charge Noam Chomsky was on a college tour telling anybody who would listen that Bush would NEVER allow Noriega to be taken alive, for fear Noriega would spill all the secrets of the evil things the CIA had done.

When Noriega got his ass locked up, Noam Chomsky went on to the next lie without every explaining how he got it so wrong. The only public debate tactic recognized by the "blame America" left is move to the next lie and keep 'em coming so fast nobody can dispute them quickly enough. Kill the truth with a thousand cuts.

That's one of the reasons Chomsky draws an audience about the size of my mother's bridge club.

Yes.

Feel free. Don't forget we're just trying to get 12Clicks his 9th DVD player.

Your serious ?

Ted Kennedy has killed more people with his car than we have with our pop rocks.

No country in the world is 100% innocent. But at least our motives are derived out of preserving freedoms and basic human rights, and in preserving our safety. What motivates the Taliban?

They mentioned the US support of Israel, The sanction in Iraq, The troops in Saudi, Aa bunch of other stuff, the list is very long.

Now I know you can't be serious - especially when talking about Republican Presidents. I'll give you safety but oil is higher up on the list than human rights and freedoms. And to answer the question you're posing to Wizdom, if the U.S. really cared about the people of Afghanistan, it would support the freedom fighters in that country. And I'm not talking about the Northern Alliance (otherwise known as the moderate fundamentalists)! Why is the U.S. supporting the NA? Because the NA will give them access to the Caspian Sea - and that's where the oil is. The U.S. will get what they finally want (it is no secret that gov't officials have long been in favor of disposing the Taliban in order to set up a puppet gov't) and the Northern Alliance will get rich. What does this mean for everyone else in Afghanistan - the same old, same old. And this would be nothing new for America - whose modus operandi has forever been to kill democratic movements in favor of puppet dictatorships that will serve the Western world's interests and only their interests. It happened in Guatemala, in Chile, in Nigeria, in Indonesia. How many more places does it have to happen before people wake up and realize that the U.S. does NOT always have freedom and human rights as their guiding motives?

If anyone really gives a shit about how the Afghan people feel, then why not start with RAWA who has been fighting for years to achieve even the slightest amount of freedom. http://rawa.false.net/us-strikes.htm

And here is the next sniveling liberal:
1.
What do think a suspect will say after the torture? Do you really believe a torture will give you the truth? The suspect will not tell any kind of truth, he will say only and allways what his torturers wants to hear (or what believe the tortures wants to hear)
History is full of examples how tortures works, and what it creates.
Some examples: during the inquisition ppl confessed that they had sex with the devil,
that they slaughtered and ate children and a lot more.
In the USSR they confessed that they were CIA agents or at least a part of the
jewish-capitalistic conspiration to delete the socialism.
What do you think a suspected member of BinLadens organisation will tell you?

2.
"
Nobody here is saying we should start going nuts, no one's saying that we should start grabbing arabs off the street and killing them.
What I'M saying is that people like you need to wake up and start realizing that you (yes YOU) are being threatened by other people in the world.
.....
They fucking hate all of us and the way we live and breath, and they won't be happy until we are all dead, in the name of their fucking so-called god Allah. Now, do you want to sit there and spout your pithy little quotes? or do you want to start thinking about better ways of protecting
our children from these fucking animals.
"
Cd, you and some others ARE going nuts.
There are a lot of threads on this board about killing every arab, towel or camel fucker ("I think we need to blow there whole country off the map, but if i said that it might start trouble, so i wont."). And I saw this kind of post on some other boards too.
The strange thing is, I didn't read anywhere anything about not to bomb BinLadens camps, I didn't read anywhere anything about not to kill and destroy BinLadens terror group. I haven't seen anyone approving the attacks. And I didn't hear this in any personal talk. So what the fuck are you talking about "we", "you" and "they"? Sounds like a well known game. Everybody with another opinion as CD is not "we". It doesn't matter what the topic is, but everybody with another opinon is a supporter of BinLaden. Or at least everybody with another opinion is guilty for the attacks and the deads.

"
Sept 11th is described as "a wake up call" and a "call to arms" etc, but I find that a lot of people still have their collective heads up their fucking arseholes as far as hat.
"
Huhu? Cd? What is this wake-up-call about? Do yo wanna tell us that the attacks were created by the dammend liberals with heads up their assholes?

3.
"it's ovious we did not learn anything from the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, did we?"

Absolutly correct, wiZdOm. We didn't. Else, nobody would write bullshit like "You completely ignore the fact of the US involvment .....". The US politics in the middle east has absolutly nothing to do with the attacks. The US politics is very often very wrong (in my eyes), and creates sometimes war, hunger and dictatorship. But this doens't justify or excuse the attacks. Terrorists from whatever country are using this kind of thinking: the country X was doing Y, so we have the right to kill all ppl in Z. It's only bullshit.
Discuss the problems or mistakes of the US politics in discussions about the US politics, but don't try to create a correlation bewtween US politics and 6500 killed innocent ppl.

4.
"i think we need to blow there whole country off the map, but if i said that it might start trouble, so i wont."
Congrats.

5.
"It goes hand in hand with my theory that people in general are stupid."

I created this theory 20 years ago, and I own all copyrights. After I stopped with the alkohol and the drugs, I had to see that this theory is absolutly bull. So you all are allowed to use my theory without paying a license fee.

6.
My english, french and latin are much better than your mandarin, kishuaheli and japanese. So go fuck yourself.

7.
And now for something completly different.
Hey 12clicks, you are wearing the stars and stripes on your foto. I believe I heard in a news show some years ago, that there is a law in the USA about disparagin or dispeging or burning the flagg.
Does such a law exists? Or did I misunderstand something?

12Clicks:

Wouldn't it just be easier to just drop a massive sub nuclear pay load on all problem countries and just let them burn to death (of course that would be prime viewing on C.N.N eh???...then send in heavy machinery and build new condo's and rename the area to new U.S states??

Iran = New Idaho
Iraq = New Michigan and so on LOL

fuck...no longer would it be bad agri conditions over there...we have a lot of charred remains to use as fertilizer!!! woo hoo!!!

Okay now you're all just being ridiculous.

It will be called "New Texas" http://bbs.gofuckyourself.net/board/biggrin.gif

Heinz, stop terrorizing me
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LOL...or find some DNA remains of Stalin and reprogram the dna and create an army of them to just plow out the arabs!! eheheheh


im drunk...sorry...i just think this is getting to soft on the administration's will power...we have nukes...LETS FUCKING use them before the expiry date eh?

There is much we can do.

Did you know that weapons are the #1 export of the USA? Some answers to our probs come from New Zealand!

"The Middle East is a breeding ground for much of the terrorism we see in the world today, largely because of the frustration of many in the region that the world community has failed to end the suffering of the Palestinian people, or to remove the sanctions regime against Iraq which is responsible for many deaths.
Many Arabs, and others throughout the Islamic world, see the United States as a major part of these problems, as the prime backer of Israel and the strongest advocate of sanctions against Iraq, which have led to the death of hundreds of thousands of innocent people."

As they also point out -- WE DON'T EVEN HAVE PROOF that bin Laden is responsible. Just the fact that we ARE SURE that it was bin Laden is proof that WE ADMIT that we knew that bin Laden was pissed off enough to do something this horrible to the USA.

Wow more answers from New Zealand! (found this randomly by doing a hotbot search for "sanctions against Iraq"

"Sanctions are an effective political tool but they must be properly targeted so as to hinder and disadvantage a regime or government rather than STARVE THE PEOPLE they rule.
New Zealand could also contribute to fighting terrorism by acknowledging and confronting its root causes.
We believe opposing the existing sanctions against Iraq and placing more pressure on Israel to withdraw from the occupied territories of Gaza and the West Bank would be good first steps."

One in four children in Iraq dies before the age of 5 due to OUR SANCTIONS. We have killed their children... Can you blame them for being a little pissed off?

"The Greens believe strongly that any military strike will inevitably create more terrorists and more terrorism.
The United States has a long history of inappropriate military interventions, be it in Vietnam in the 1960s and 1970s or its air strikes against Iraq which continue today. In its own geopolitical interests it has fostered dictators like Saddam Hussein when he was useful to them to combat Iran, and Afghani fundamentalists like bin Laden, when Russia was seen as the enemy." http://www.greens.org.nz/docs/press/010930terrorism.htm

Gee. Geopolitical interests. In other words this is about oil too.

What else can we do? The CIA trained bin Laden and helped create the Taliban! The CIA works in secret! We have no control of the CIA. They could be creating more terrorism right now and we would have no idea. The USA has been manipulating governments, leadership, and elections of other countries for a long time. Do something about the CIA.

What else can we do? Fix the news media in the USA. We knew something like this could happen... the WTC was not the first target. We could have done something about this sooner if we didn't have our heads up our asses. Maybe there is a reason we didn't do something sooner -- but that is a secret kept from the American people.

Read bin Laden's letters. They are doing this because they want us to lift the sanctions -- stop starving their people. We have more blood on our hands than the terrorists. Turn back the mirror on the USA. We fight in the name of God too. I saw a T-Shirt in Books-a-Million yesterday "JesUSAaves" -- everyone wants God on their side in times of despair.

So there are some answers for you.



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<A HREF="http://www.thefly.net/topfly.html" TARGET=_blank>
http://thefly.net/flybump.gif Boneprone-4-Life Family Approved</A>

That means everyone in Los Angeles should leave?


[This message has been edited by TheFLY (edited 10-22-2001).]

There's food in L.A.

But you can't grow much food in LA without water! It's a desert climate!

whoops


[This message has been edited by TheFLY (edited 10-22-2001).]

Anyway to summarize my previous message.

Solution to terrorism:

1. Lift sanctions.
2. Don't allow CIA to work in secret.
3. Stop exporting weapons.
4. Take back control of the news media.
5. Reduce our dependence on oil.


------------------
<A HREF="http://www.thefly.net/topfly.html" TARGET=_blank>
http://thefly.net/flybump.gif Boneprone-4-Life Family Approved</A>

But I can admit -- maybe my list is entirely unrealistic.

Also there is a new frontier to fight over -- "Space".

I'm sure there will be many more wars fought over who will control space and how it will be used to control those on Earth.

Seems like a very difficult problem to solve -- since Space has no borders ;) Just like terrorism has no borders -- we have entirely new problems -- and possibly new solutions. I just got a boner.

Anyway I'm out of here.

OH FUCK !!! ROFLMFARO !!! http://bbs.gofuckyourself.net/board/biggrin.gif


------------------
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Airforce come and dey flatten your home !!!
The Black Sheep of the Boneprone Family
I like to rub HERTURN on my nipples http://www.rentpornos.com/devilfinger.gif

so then, to recap.

it's a fucking lucky thing for you pansies that you live in a country where your dopey blame america ideas are largely ignored. http://bbs.gofuckyourself.net/board/wink.gif

This is bullshit Pete. Yes, let's ignore the REASON WHY these sanctions are there in the fucking first place shall we? See???? People are so fucking stupid and ignorant that they choose to ignore what Iraq has done to deserve their punishment. The fact is, if the Iraqi leaders and the Iraqi people responsible for certain worldly activities would just smarten the fuck up and conduct themselves in a civilized manner, THERE WOULD BE NO SANCTIONS.

Duhhh

Yes, focus on the punishments and not the crimes. Since when did we as a global community start doing this? It's really really sickening to hear so many of you spouting off this shit when you all know full well what atrocious crimes have been committed to warrant such punishments.

If the Iraqi people or the Afghani people or ANY such people would wake up and realize that their own leaders are to blame for their present situations.... fuck it, you guys finish it. It doesn't take a genius like Heinz to figure it out.

Imagine, focusing on how terrible the punishment is instead of how horrible the CRIME was. Stupid, so fucking stupid it hurts.
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12clicks: I hear that you are a great fan of the nazi concentration camps and wish to build a whole bunch of 'em in america...

So tell me, after you tortured all arabs and muslims in the world, will you gas an cremate them, or do you have anything more elaborated in mind?

No, thats too quick, he will do like Napoleon did, have his men push them at see, and watch them drown.

------------------
wiZd0m

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oh look, wizdom found a friend.
go find a few more nobodies to agree with you. http://bbs.gofuckyourself.net/board/wink.gif

12clicks, it's really funny to see how you categorise the world in sub classes.

First, there is the Emperor 12clicks, who is always right and cannot be questioned, he is beyond the grasp of the populace.
Then there are the white right wing extremists who makes some sence to you but are lacking some raffinement.
It's downhill from there, the rest of the world is made for liberals cowards, libertarian faggots and over seas, a bunch of tribes who needs to be educated in the values and virtues of 12clickism before they are allowed to speak.
Past these tribes, all there is left are parasites and disease, for which your solution is the cure ...

[This message has been edited by wiZd0m (edited 10-24-2001).]

Yep, that pretty much covers it

LOL

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so, the views expressed so far are:
"we are at war, quit whinging and treat it like one."
and
"we are really bad because of what previous g'ments and other people have done and should let ourselves get killed."

hmm, now there is one thing i do not get about that second view. if we are all judged n the history of our race and nations, and is either have done anything wrong in the past, we have no right to defend ourselves, then wiZdOm, if a native american comes up to you and punches you, by your logic, you will stand there and keep on getting hit, because obviously, since you are american, and in the past other americans you never met did bad things to native american, you deserve it and they have the right to do it. http://bbs.gofuckyourself.net/board/smile.gif

well, i think i'll go away now and bash up some turks, you see i am of half greek descent, and the way i understand it now, they are not allowed to fight back because they invaded greece a few hundred years ago.

did i make a point?

------------------
Corvo.....

Corvo, you should work for the cia in the disinformation departement, the way you distorted my words is amazing.

its just a hobby.



------------------
Corvo.....

Wizdope, isn't this like calling the kettle black?
please go pull my quotes where I say any of the things below.

well, ok. the emperor part you got right.
I'm surprized I never noticed that you're an idiot before now.

hey, run along and get your friend Nat to help you defend yourself again. haha

12clicks, just a few lines expressing your views.

It's always entertaining to read your post, therefor I was making a friendly parody of you and not trying to attibute malice to you. In every caricature, if you don't overly exagerete it, then it's a bad one. Look at the emoticon in that post, it was a wink

This is just hitting the wires. Osama has probably been dead since 10/16 - explaining why no new video tapes have come out with anybody but his "spokesman".
http://www.nationalreview.com/interr...y102501b.shtml

We should be able to move the military on to Iraq soon.

hes either dead, or, more likely, hidding somewhere like indonesia or the sudan.

either way, afganistan as it was prior to s11 provided a great training ground and rallying point for terrorists, so it is in the worlds best interests that the taliban are removed, and something resembling a democratic, friendly, g'ment is put in place.



------------------
Corvo.....

Ok, I gotta clear a few things up here :)

Some of my posts were made while arguing with a braindead relative that was consuming his 12th straight hour of CNN :)

The jist of my initial post was the provoke thought into a few ideas pledged regarding just rounding people up and torturing them as there is a huge contingent out there wanting to do the same to us. It was also a jest at being paranoid over a few guys videotaping a few buildings and buying an unusually large supply of candy.

Anyone notice the new anti-terrorism bill due to be passed by Bush? Hmm, wonder who'll be listening in on YOUR phonecalls ;)

Sometimes my anti-religion fervor gets the best of me ;) what can say, as someone who was raised in a heavily Mormon community, I fear religion...

While I'm obviously all for world peace, 'm realistic enough to realize it's probably just a pipedream. I believe in defending ourselves and in a strong military, but that doesn't mean I support every military action. I have a father in law who's slowly having his brains and inside melted away due to exposure to Agent Orange, I have a father who got his brains scrambled in Vietnam when he was forced to be a tunnel rat (anyone else here want to go into a small tunnel with nothing but a flashlight, gun and knife and being attacked in the dark? Then kill someone to find it was a child or woman? Anyone? I have a friend dying of some shit he caught during the gulf war. So pardon me if I'm a bit cynical.

Our esteemed leader keeps telling us this isn't a war on the Afghan people or Islam, so who are we at war with? A faction that rules part of Afghanastan?

Some of these Anthrax attacks may be coming from Iraq...well, we had a chance to get him during the Bush administration and Clinton didn't exactly do much to instill fear. So, my suspicion and wholly uneducated opinion is that Afghanastan is basically a distraction while our real atrget is Iraq. What do I know? I'm just a dope ;)

I also want to let it be known, I have nothing personal against 12clicks, I just disagree with his views (and isn't that was free speech is about?)

I am a believer in truth and justice for ALL. Yes, that means having to stick up for the liberties of someone I am opposed to or whose beliefs clash with mine. It's not easy to hold such strong convitions when they defend or assist a scumbag, but really, if the scumbag gets his day like everyone else, doesn't that mean the rest of us are safe? (or a bit safer).

What scares even me is that I'm personally anti-religion, yet a staunch believer of freedom of religion. Does it make me a hypocrite? Nope, because I belive in the freedom of choosing ones God without fear of presecution (even though I personally have chose not to have one). (Uh oh, here come the religous flames ;)))

I was also called "part of the problem" with scoiety today. Well, what's a bigger part of the problem, seeing that everyone gets a fair shake? Or is it the fact that until recently, no one gave a shit about patriotism? No one cared about the freedoms we have EVERYDAY until someone decided to make part of our population too scared to leave their homes. The fact that until a few years ago no one cared about a gay man getting killed or a black man getting killed in a "white area"? (for the record, I hate the term "hate crime" with these cases because, really, aren't all crimes involveing violence about hate?).

Since I am a member of "society", I'll take my knocks from being part of that group, but shouldn't we all? So, yup, I'm part of the problem, but you know what, I vote in every election, I take part in my community (anyone else volunteer your "holidays" to your local shelters or assisting the elderly or disabled ). If society is to blame, then aren't we all guilty by association?

Ok, got off topic a bit (so what's new).

Just wanted to clarify a few things :)

OK, I'm bored of this thread already, maybe I'll go start a new "Hun won't list my galleries" thread ;))))

I too, would like to clear the air.
I have nothing personal against sykkboy. But my professional opinion is that he's dopey. http://bbs.gofuckyourself.net/board/wink.gif

If you live in a house and that house is infested with spiders, 10% who's bite is deadly and 90% who's bite is not, Do you NOT exterminate them all to make yourself safe?

While I don't advocate extermination of the non- threatening middle eastern men, I am certainly in favor of investigating them all and deporting ANYONE who seems suspicious.

You see, the deported terrorist can't kill us and the investigated innocent can't kill us.
When the choice is between death or someones hurt feelings for being investigated, I think there is no choice to make.

Sykkboy would have you believe that the new anti-terrorism bill is somehow a first step in taking away our rights. He's dead wrong.
None of the changes in this law allow the government to conduct any action contrary to our constitution. wire taps, email servailance, and detentions all still have the scrutiny of the courts.
(sykkboy just has a great fear of our government)

Also, for the record, I do not believe in organized religion. I think it is the biggest sham ever perpetrated on humanity. I often think of opening a religious site so that I can ride the same gravy train the catholics are riding. http://bbs.gofuckyourself.net/board/smile.gif
So please, when you lable me, please take that into account.

Rounding up the scum just got more treacherous.


http://www.icflorida.com/partners/wftv/news/story1.html



"The trooper is being decontaminated in the emergency room at ORMC. He had pulled over a black Nissan on the turnpike. The trooper gave the driver a ticket, the driver laughed and drove off. The trooper was overcome by some kind of fumes, could not breathe and became disoriented.

The driver and passengers are reportedly two men of Middle Eastern descent. The car tag is registered in Cape Coral."



Not good news for whatever PR firm the Friends of Arabs Coalition is using these days.

Hopefully the toxic fumes that brought down the trooper were just hygiene related.

Another version.


http://www.newschannel2000.com/orl/n...26-101039.html



"The motorist fled from the scene, but it's unclear if the driver had anything to do with the incident."

Who says politically correct reporting is dead.