U.S. revises its definition of torture !!!!

[directfiesta]

Post-Abu Ghraib memo backs away from previous guidelines
Friday, December 31, 2004 Posted: 12:03 PM EST (1703 GMT)

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Justice Department backed off its narrow definition of torture as "excruciating and agonizing pain" by releasing a legal memo rewritten since the Iraqi prison abuse scandal.

The 17-page memo omitted two of the most controversial assertions made in now-disavowed 2002 Justice Department documents: that President Bush, as commander in chief in wartime, had authority superseding U.S. anti-torture laws and that U.S. personnel had several legal defenses against criminal liability in such cases.

The new document said torture violates U.S. and international law.

"Consideration of the bounds of any such authority would be inconsistent with the president's unequivocal directive that United States personnel not engage in torture," said the memo from Daniel Levin, acting chief of the Office of Legal Counsel, to Deputy Attorney General James Comey.

Critics in Congress and many legal experts say the original documents set up a legal framework that led to abuses at the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq, in Afghanistan and at the U.S. prison camp for terror suspects at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. After the Iraqi prison abuses came to light, the Justice Department in June disavowed its previous legal reasoning and set to work on the replacement document.

The White House insisted on Friday that the United States has operated under the spirit of the Geneva Conventions, which prohibit violence, torture and humiliating treatment.

"It has been U.S. policy from the start to treat detainees humanely and in accordance with the Geneva Conventions or under the spirit of the Conventions where they do not apply," said White House deputy press secretary Trent Duffy.

The Justice Department memo, dated Thursday, was released less than a week before the Senate Judiciary Committee was to consider Bush's nomination of his chief White House counsel, Alberto Gonzales, to replace John Ashcroft as attorney general.

Democrats have said they would question Gonzales closely on memos he wrote that were similar to the now-disavowed Justice Department documents that critics said appeared to justify torture.

The release also coincided with continuing revelations of possible detainee abuse, most recently a series of memos from FBI agents uncovered in an American Civil Liberties Union lawsuit alleging instances of Defense Department wrongdoing during a variety of interrogations. (Full story)

http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/12/31/ju....ap/index.html

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[Pleasurepays]

I thought CNN was just a propaganda machine backing the lying government and brainwashing America?

[directfiesta]

Originally Posted by Pleasurepays

I thought CNN was just a propaganda machine backing the lying government and brainwashing America?

LOL....

No, that is FOX...

[Alexander D Great]

"The White House insisted on Friday that the United States has operated under the spirit of the Geneva Conventions, which prohibit violence, torture and humiliating treatment."

hmmm.. I wonder how can ppl lie so much without feeling bad about all the rest of the world laughing about their comments..

I don't think there;s even one person who thinks that during the time in iraq there's fair treatment to the prisoners!

[erehwon]

Originally Posted by Alexander D Great

"The White House insisted on Friday that the United States has operated under the spirit of the Geneva Conventions, which prohibit violence, torture and humiliating treatment."

[SNIP]

I don't think there;s even one person who thinks that during the time in iraq there's fair treatment to the prisoners!

I am willing to bet the run of the mill average prisoner is getting everything allowed under the Geneva Convention. I have a little problem with flying suspects out of the country to countries that use harsh interrogation methods outlawed in the United States...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp...nguage=printer

[Webby]

While all Western and plenty other countries actually raised their hands to sign a Human Rights Treaty and this has been in effect for a long time, the US considered this a good thing, but still have not signed or can claim compliance.

BTW.. This has nothing to do with wars and bullshit - they can't even sign and offer their own citizens the basic human rights afforded under the Treaty which is operating in most other countries.

A definition of torture?? Well, yes, folks do like to change definitions of anything when it suits them. Like kids with toys.

BTW... with most soldiers, they do have common decency even when doing some "policing the world" bs and are fair. However, that has nothing to do with the US govt claiming to uphold the terms of the Geneva convention - they have no clue what any convention is, - unless it suited them.

How can any nation make honorable claims, yet still deploy napam bombs (which are on the international banned list), on people? It is little surprise and dissappointing the US has reached this low level on so many issues and also little surprise the US govt is despised by almost all others. It does the US no credit.

[hyper]

i was watching some black guy on CNN

he was saying

this is The War on Terror
not the country club on terror


these people have already killed over 1200 U.S Soldiers

if they need to toture them to get information so be it

[David!]

What do you suggest then?
What method should we use with beheading crazies?

[Screaming]

is there anything else that we can talk about besides bashing the U.S. like other countries havent fucked up and done horrible thing

[Webby]

hyper:

these people have already killed over 1200 U.S Soldiers

if they need to toture them to get information so be it

Who invaded Iraq under false claims?

Who now occupies Iraq?

Who killed FAR more (than 1200) Iraqi people, most of whom were innocent, and contaminated that country with depleted uranium which will kill FAR more Iraqi people thru illness/malformation over the next 50 years than any numbers killed during this "war"?

It is dissapointing to see the last statement - "if they need torture.." You have just disqualified yourself of any cred which means you are no better than the extremist "terrorist" element. You have let em beat you...

[rambler]

Doesn't surprise me.

[12clicks]

Originally Posted by Pleasurepays

I thought CNN was just a propaganda machine backing the lying government and brainwashing America?

liberal trash get their ammo where they can.

[CET]

Originally Posted by hyper

i was watching some black guy on CNN

he was saying

this is The War on Terror
not the country club on terror


these people have already killed over 1200 U.S Soldiers

if they need to toture them to get information so be it

By saying "it's justified because we're at war", then you've found a way to justify uncivility. After that, it becomes easy to justify it in the future. Suppose you are arrested for "suspicious activities linked with terrorism"? Is torture justified then? Why not?

BTW, they may have killed 1,200 soldiers, but we've killed near 100,000 civilians and "terrorists". No wonder the insurgency is going as strongly as it is. Some guy dies by US fire, and his brothers, cousins and friends join the insurgency to get revenge. So what have we really accomplished in this war?

[baddog]

My New Years Resolution

directfiesta
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[hyper]

dont hate me..

i didnt say it


some guy on Cnn was saying it

damn relax

[uno]

Originally Posted by erehwon

I am willing to bet the run of the mill average prisoner is getting everything allowed under the Geneva Convention. I have a little problem with flying suspects out of the country to countries that use harsh interrogation methods outlawed in the United States...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp...nguage=printer

And yet American citizens can be arrested if they even plan on leaving the country to partake in prostitutes?

[uno]

Originally Posted by hyper

i was watching some black guy on CNN

he was saying

this is The War on Terror
not the country club on terror


these people have already killed over 1200 U.S Soldiers

if they need to toture them to get information so be it

We invaded their land and killed 10s of thousands of their people. Iraq had nothing to do with the war on terror until we invaded them.