ADL Colin

Why TGP2s are better than TGP1s.

TGP2 galleries, as we have previously shown, have CTR rates that are about 10x better
than TGP1 galleries. These TGP2 galleries actually convert quite a bit better than TGP1 also.

I have stats to present to everyone regarding the comparison of TGP2 compared straight to
TGP1s. These are for the sites themselves and NOT the galleries. Many people have already
presented evidence of the superiority of the TGP2 gallery to the TGP1 gallery. The stats are for two of my TGP2s combined compared to one of my largest TGP1s. The link and sponsor are exactly the same on both and have the same placement. The number of clicks to sponsor was statistically significant.

On the TGP2s, CTR to sponsor was 1.5%
On the TGP1s, CTR to sponsor was .3%

This was actually somewhat surprising to me. Even though CTR on TGP2 galleries is 10x higher than on TGP1s, I expected that CTR on the TGP2s themselves would be much more in line with that on TGP1s. It was surprising to find the same link in the same spot on TGP2s with 5x the CTR.

The conversion rates for these links were as follows:

On the TGP2s, sign-up ratio was 1/700.
On the TGP1s, sign-up ratio was 1/1500.

This was for a significant amount of traffic. I have been tabulating these results for over
six weeks to get fair data. At present, I conclude that the value of a TGP2 surfer on the TGP2 itself is 10x that of a surfer on a TGP. This is the factor of 5x better CTR
and 2x better sign-up ratio.

My data now shows that TGP2 surfers are 10x more valuable than TGP1 surfers on both the
galleries and the TGP2s themselves. I believe the superiority of the TGP2 model to the TGP1 model has been clearly demonstrated. A model that depends on giving away 1000s of the same free pics that one intends to later sell and intentionally restricts the clicks sent to the sponsors is seriously flawed.

aedx

Hm, sounds interesting... I really like the TGP2 idea, but I've never submitted TGP2 galleries. How much traffic is it possible to get submitting 1 gallery daily to all major TGP2's?

Thanx

OzKaNoz

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TGP2 WebRing
Erotic Candyland Tgp

The Hun

Well, that's no surprise at all... But last time I checked 0.3% of 50K was more than 1.5% of 2K...

Conversion is better, and the concept is a lot better then CJ-traffic, but it's targeting a "newbie market", which is about 5% of the whole market out there

Naughty

Nice numbers Colin!

AEDX, check http://www.tgp2stats.com/tgp2c/index_t50.php for results, it might help.

Oz, I second that

Hun, that is why you gotta join!! If you pump your 2 zillion viewers to TGP2, we are all happy, you too probably



------------------

- the Official TGP2 Counter --> signup now for realtime stats, toplists and more...!
- Submit Your Galleries Here to The Naughty Daily
- EraserCash - $35/signup, unique commissionprogram

ADL Colin

Hun,

Yes .. and TGP2s only weakness at the present time is traffic. It is also barely 3 months old. I was out of the adult industry (went non-adult for a few years) when thehun.net made the conversion from linking directly to
pic directories to linking to galleries. I missed the history of TGP because of this.

What is your recollection of the growth of the TGP1 concept for it's first 3-6 months? How does TGP2 fare in that comparison? (since the hun.net was already hugely established from directory linking days, this must be factored out).

"But last time I checked 0.3% of 50K was more than 1.5% of 2K..."

The largest TGP2s are already over 10k. This makes them even. I assume that you agree with the .3% number for TGP1?

Hun,

What do you see for future of TGP2 and why?
What will happen to the concept over the next 6 months and then the next 12 months? What are it's strengths? What are it's limitations?

What do you think a dial-up connection surfer thinks of TGP2? Some guy logs onto AOL at 56k and the TGP2 gallery loads 4 times faster than a TGP1 gallery. What is *his* impression?

Interested in your thoughts.

[This message has been edited by Colin (edited 10-16-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Colin (edited 10-16-2001).]

The Hun

Naughty. I know for sure that those 2,000,000 uniques won't stay... If TGP2 is more like a CJ3 where people are teased with content and not blunty trapped I think it's a good thing, but I won't join

But if TGP2 is thought of as the follow up for TGP (as the name does suggest) I think it's a pretty stupid idea. It only works if there would be no link-sites at all on the Internet, so the whole idea is very naive. It's like making a report on getting planes to fly cheaper if we would cut gravity in half. That's not going to happen. True, the concept works, and in theory you can't fight it, but it's based on assumptions that are incorrect...

ADL Colin

Our new motto!

"True, the concept works, and in theory you can't fight it"

ADL Colin

Hun,

I do agree with you that your 2 million visitors won't stay if you listed TGP2 galleries. Those that bookmarked; bookmarked because they like your site. I like your site too.

wolfshade

Hmmm so asuming that if a webmaster can make the same sale on hlaf the bandwidth and therefor more inclined to use TGP2 is incorrect?

I think not and if the above is correct that means over time more TGP2 submissions and less TGP submissions.

And what's a TGP without submissons?

Yup that's it

Wolfshade


------------------
Wolfshade's Moneymakers

Get paid per minute at Dialerclopedia, per run at Nodialercash, or be a sponsor yourself!!!

It's the choice of an Adult generation!

ICQ#49873955 [email protected]

Amputate Your Head

I find it funny that the TGP2 people feel this uncontrollable need to constantly explain why it's better than regular old TGP gallerys... hehe... why do you try so hard to convince people that don't want to be convinced?

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Just another monkey with a computer.

ADL Colin

Amputate,

TGP2 started with one person/one post. If he hadn't convinced anyone else that it was a good idea, well, what do you think would have happened?

The success of the model with make or break it and nothing else. I have reported successes. I have reported difficulties.
Sometimes things work. Sometimes they dont.
All is open to debate and discussion.

People can try their own experiments. They might find it works for them. They might find it doesn't.

By presenting information, we may attract someone that brings another great idea to TGP2. Ideas require ingenuity and insight.

WANTED: People with ingenuity and insight.

spider_d

Tgp owners may trade traffic but since they still compete with each other on bookmarks they can never really afford giving less free pics if they want to grow. in fact that's what made tgps much bigger than linksites over the last two years - more pics, less index pages and banners.
Tgp2 is only good for saving bandwith, not for making money and the only solution I can think about is building thousands of galleries, the way you want them, and rotating them on your tgps which will serve you as traffic source.

ADL Colin

Spider ...

It's more than just the bandwidth savings.

The original thesis of TGP2 is that by giving away less free content, one will have higher signup ratios. Why would the surfer buy a membership when they can look at 500 galleries with 25 pics each?

TGP2s allow much more liberal linking to sponsors. More links, HTML pages for galleries, hardly any restrictions. This has lead to much higher click throughs to sponsors.

TheFLY

stop cryin

the hun is right

tgp model has risen to the top out of many models...

tgp does not stand for

the
greedy
people

With bandwidth so cheap now -- why you bitchin' anyway. I was paying $6+ per gig when I started. You're a bunch of babies ;)



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<A HREF="http://www.thefly.net/topfly.html" TARGET=_blank>
Boneprone-4-Life Family Approved</A>

Moose

Colin
Once again
Whos bright idea was it to send less traffic to the sponsor?


It utterly amazes me webmasters are "happy" with TGP traffic getting less than 1% clik through.....Giving away Free quality porn to to thousands and thousands of surfers to make $35.

I have free sites in the engines sending 50% of the visitors to the sponsors......everyday of the week,no daily submitting nothing.It would take 100,000 tgp surfers a day to match that..what a waste of surfers and bandwidth.

------------------

spider_d

I totally agree that, by competing each other and giving tons of free pics,we fuck up the market for everybody, including oursekves, and who knows if 2 years from now we will be able to make big $$$ from just being affiliates.However,damage is done and the world will never be the same, even pk has long ago given up that no'1 place.too much free porn, too much freeloaders and the if you can't beat them join them. get your bookmarks, build your traffic, pay as low as you can for bandwith and try competing the big tgps. In the long run working togheter
on giving less porn can be great but as long as the hun and every other big tgp go their way it will hold you much mucg smaller than them.
Tgps are the poison but also the cure...

Moose

Fly
Cheap bandwidth is the ONLY thing keeping the TGP model alive...after that i doubt much is left.


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GiggleBerries

Hun,

I agree that the 2M uniques won't stay, but the ones that leave are the ones looking for a totally free ride and would probably never have bought anything anyway, in which case you would be better off without them eating your bandwidth and giving nothing in return. Not trying to pick a fight, just trying to hear both sides before I make another TGP.



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GiggleBerries.com TGP
Russian TGP Submitter

ADL Colin

Fly .. TGP *is* a great model. It HAS risen to the top. I maintain my TGPs as they are.
They still make me money. TGPs are a great model within itself but they have damaged sign-up ratios industry-wide.

But ... I have seen declining ratios on my TGPs as the glut of free content continues to increase. My ratios have increased some after the Summer, but overall a pretty decent drop.

I have 10x the traffic on my TGP1s as on my TGP2s yet my TGP2s are performing surprisingly well in comparison. I see the light.

TGPs used to sell memberships. Now, webmasters sell cock-enlargement exercises,
little girls that dance on your desktop, evidence eliminators, personals. TGP spreads itself into these areas as ratios decline. As those products have saturated the market, ratios for those products have declined also.

" Soon many of you webmasters wont be paid Cash, you will be paid prizes. " - Alien

Vick

Let me throw out a few things for consideration
Are TGP players making less now than last year, are revenues still decreasing?

Does it make good business sense to give less free pix, send more visitors to sponsors and lower bandwidth bills?

Do you want your sites bookmarked by bandwidth sucking, no credit card using, free picture hunting leeches?

Does it matter what your counter says?

Who is really interested in what your checks are every week and every month?

From my perspective TGP2 offers a better revenue option. More eyes to sponsors (for list owners) and less bandwidth used (for galley builders)


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It really is all about the Money

GiggleBerries

AMEN!! That's some good preachin' brother! I see the light!



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GiggleBerries.com TGP
Russian TGP Submitter

ldinternet

1.5%? Have you been smoking something, Colin?

I'm getting upwards of 20% CTR from tgp2 galleries

ADL Colin

1.5% on a particular link from my actual TGP2s.

My month-long average on TGP2 galleries is 18% CTR!

wolfshade

Look people it realy is no rocket science

Less BandWidth and the same or more sales with less traffic is better then more Bandwidth same or less sales with a lot more traffic.

As more webmasters will see that TGP's will get less submissions plain and simple it's just a matter of sticking with it and that we do!

Offcourse Hun doesn't agree, offcourse Fly is against and so are probabely most TGP owners that have a midsized to huge TGP. After all we are messing with their market.

TGP is a wonderfull concept if it was utilised right, this is not the case so a better model has emerged plain and simple.

A little example I had last week:

1 posted one TGP gallery to 50 TGP's, got 50 k uniques and made $ 100 with it in one day

Then I posted a TGP2 gallery, posted it to 20 TGP2 sites, got 2k in traffic and made $ 110 with the same sponsor!

Now will the webmasters that are against making moe green please post?

Didn't think so!

Wolfshade




------------------
Wolfshade's Moneymakers

Get paid per minute at Dialerclopedia, per run at Nodialercash, or be a sponsor yourself!!!

It's the choice of an Adult generation!

ICQ#49873955 [email protected]

Amputate Your Head

I am anti-TGP2. To the bone.

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Just another monkey with a computer.

ADL Colin

Amputate,

I remember seeing Bill Gates on TV one day back in '95 saying that Microsoft didn't plan on having an internet strategy for a long while. Then on Pearl Harbor Day in December of 1995, he was on TV saying "Here is our internet strategy". See you on Dec 7, my friend! May you have as much wisdom.

ADL Colin

I'm not anti-anything. I'm pro-money. Wherever revenue is .. I'll chase it.

If you're anti-something in this business, you've stated a philosophical position, not a business one.

Kimmykim

Now I want you to stop and think about that Amp.

Just because it's not the way you do things today, does it necessarily mean you might not be doing it tomorrow?

Really think on it.

I like the concept, I like it alot -- anything that gets conversions going in the direction of acceptable levels again is a good thing.

On-top

What the hun said sums it up.

As a different variation of free site, it's a nice theory. Just like there are CJ, TGP, pic post, free sites, and link lists, now there are also TGP2's. But it's not really taking anything farther. The current TGP2 surfers will be lost to the TGPs as their knowledge increases...not the other way around :-)

Things always change, but I think it will be something set in a different direction that really stirs things up. You'll realize when it happens...but it will truly raise the bar for everyone playing ball.

harvey

TGP2 galleries convert better than TGP ones, that's a fact. TGP2 movement still doesn't have very much traffic, that's a fact too. But is it a bad thing? I submit to The Hun from time to time because I want to get some BIG traffic and make signups out of that big income of traffic (thanx Hun!). However, I had galleries listed at The Hun making as low as 5.25 (just last week). Almost 35 GB spent on that, just do the math. I know that it could be my fault and I like to experiment things which from time to time fail, like in this case. But I make at least 1 sale a day with TGP2, and if I'm lucky I can make 4-5 sales. Less than 1GB on bandwidth. Now do the math again.

Let's suppose that those 5.25 were 3 sales of $35, so they would be $105. Now, my bw cost is $3, so 35 GB x $3= $105 (don't get mad, get even )

Take TGP2 with only 1 sale: $35- $3 (bw)= $32 I made 32 dollars (correct me if I'm wrong). But on this case, everything runs smoothly, and if I submit to The Hun my server will be bogged, so the only win-win scenario is to make a lot of signups. But, if I get everything for free, why the hell would I pay a dime?

So, you don't need to be a wizard to realize the truth. I'm pretty dumb and could see it, so I guess you will

And this is nothing against The Hun. I love to be listed, but Hun's traffic has to be studied to find something that works, and as I told before, you can fail (and your ass will hurt)

Finally, Hun... BRING TERRA BACK!!!!



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Harvey
The TGP2 redirector
In Harvey we trust!

run

what makes TGPs above CJs is that CJs just rotate traffic, and TGPs collect bookmarks. No one is ever bookmark a TGP with no free pics. So TGP2 is nothing but a different kind of CJ.

AND TGP2 is by all means going to harm good old TGP industry.

TGP2 might work for a small amount of sites (maybe), but if it gets massive, both sides are fucked.

No, I do not own a TGP site.

Adult biz used to be a big money maker. It still is. It seems that the "money maker" part of it is going down the toilet. TGP2 sites will just make the process faster.

you guys seem to be looking for fast buck. THINK LONG TERM.

and....... GET EVEN (copyrighted by thehun.net i believe )

wolfshade

run:

TGP2 sites do offer free content just not a shitload like TGP does.

How is TGP2 killing the bizz? please explain that one to me because teh way I see it that does not happen

In your case I'd say don't get mad get informed because you sure as hell didn't do yoru homework


Wolfshade


------------------
Wolfshade's Moneymakers

Get paid per minute at Dialerclopedia, per run at Nodialercash, or be a sponsor yourself!!!

It's the choice of an Adult generation!

ICQ#49873955 [email protected]

Amputate Your Head

I'm anti-thinking.


------------------
Just another monkey with a computer.

kandi

Thanks again Colin,

This was one great read!! Excellent content.

But then, , most know which side of the dollar I bank on already.

Regards to all,

kandi

------------------
The Midnight Collection/
The Midnight Cunts Partner Program
The Official TGP2 Submitter Tool

"You see things that are and say why, I see things that have yet to be and say, Why Not?"
G.B. Shaw

[This message has been edited by kandi (edited 10-17-2001).]

Moose

Wolfshade, i think Run is f-ing around :-)


Any one with half a brain knows giving away something for free is not the way to put money in the bank.

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Nedder

It is the TGP1 model itself that will eventually spell the demise of TGP1 and don't think the big players don't know this.

Right now, how well we convert the Hun's traffic is meaningless to his bottom line. With millions of daily visitors, ad revenues, paid listings, et al, of course he isn't going to endorse TGP2. If it ain't broke don't fix it, right?

When will the TGP1 model stop being viable? At .2% CTR? .1%? .01%? Sadly, through it's own market saturation, the TGP1 model forces the accelerated eventuality of these numbers.

There are choices to be made here my friends.

TGP1 can be milked until its death...(likely)

OR

ALL of us can try and look beyond our wallets TODAY and realize that we need each other for the continued success of this industry in the FUTURE (sadly, unlikely.

Is TGP2 the answer? I don't know. But panning it as just another failed attempt to topple TGP1 is really biting yourself in the ass. TGP1 will be the only thing to kill TGP1 folks, and don't think it won't happen.
Unless we encourage new ideas like TGP2, we will all be sitting here crying while the guys who made their TGP1 MILLIONS on our backs laugh all the way to the bank.

Ned

run

1) would you still want go surfing for porn after you have been teased by tgp2, cj or cj2 sites for some... 3 hours?

2) can the regular visitor tell the difference between tgp and tgp2?

if both answers are positive then tgp2 will do no harm.

the indigo

thehun is not objective at all. Why are you listening to him? He's the biggest TGP1, he just can't like the TGP2 idea. I'm into the TGP business since 1 year and I can tell you this is killing the whole industry. The bandwitdh will be almost free in 2 years and everyone will give more and more away for free. (yeah, 20 mins mpeg galleries). TGP2 should become the standard. Yes it currently only get 5% of the new traffic, but there's 10,000 new surfers joining the net daily (no needs to turn them into leechers right away) AND if everyone goes for TGP2, in 3-4 years it will be a mega huge business, making us 5x more money than the "anti-christ" called TGP1.

The only rule for TGP1 is: make the best gallery, offer the best content, offer more than the other webmaster. Use your brain for 10 sec and visualise where we are going with this.

TGP2 should add new rules every few months. TGP2 sites that won't respect those rules should get banned.

We are about 70,000 webmasters or so... in 5 years, we'll be 10,000 maximum. You'll understand pretty fast why if you think for 2 sec.

But who gives a fuck? We are all egoist pricks anyway. You can't build anything on this.

the indigo

Ned is perfectly right. The standard click-thru % 1 year ago was 2-3% and conversion 1:500.

Now, it's 1%-1.5%, 1:750 to 1:1000 (and sponsors fuck around numbers even more than ever)

Last year, only a handful of webmaster was doing the TGP game... now almost everyone is into this because they have difficulties making enough money with free sites and SE.

kenjin

Maybe this is a dumb idea, but Why don`t the real big TGP`s like the Hun and the rest, incorporate a few tgp2 galleries in their daily listings, and see what kind of responce they get, see if their traffic declines?I doubt it .
Why oh why do we all give away so much free porn (alot of it is probably being accessed by children)

run

LOL @ kenjin
your last statement made me roll

competition i guess.

harvey

After TGP2 there will be AC1 (Adult Content 1) which will have only 1 rule: Everybody will pay!

Wouldn't it be nice?

(In AC2 even webmasters will need to pay to access their own servers)

btw, I don't live in USA, but wouldn't be cool if adult webmasters join efforts to make some kind of "moral coalition" and then ask congress people to stop porn by asking for AVS or credit cards? I think it will eventually come, so why don't you push things a little?

And for the TGP/TGP2 discussion: I'm the webmaster at TGP2.net but I still use TGP. The webmasters of TGP2 usually run TGP too. What does it means? We KNOW what's the actual state of things, and we know that it's very difficult to make a living off TGP2 exclusively. But at the same time, most of us are working with a vision of future and that's why we are using so much time in TGP2 related projects. Because there's room for new things and new concepts. But is there anything to be done in TGP? I doubt. When a TGP webmaster asks gallery makers for
* 15 pics minimum
* Paid host
* High Quality pics
* No more than 2 ads
that webmaster is thinking on one thing: "please give me content so I can have a running site and don't even bother on trying to make some money. I'll (I am) avoid(ing) it by any mean possible". And then, the webmaster who is so "interested" in his surfers, all of them just a "community of friends" hanging at the webmaster's site, this very same webmaster will make the surfer download a dialer which will charge the surfer up to 8 dollars PER MINUTE. I know there are exceptions to this, but they're the least.

Let's take The Hun or Worldsex: they don't have dialers, but they rely on the affluence of surfers coming to their sites, which is big due to the content they have, that way they sell ads to people interested to reach that shitload of surfers. Now, let's say I'm a webmaster AND a surfer. That makes me your best friend, then why don't you give me a very good position at your TGP for free? Don't you love surfers? I'm a surfer too!

I'd go on and on, but the main message is the following: There are no enemies, there are different strategies and all of them are leaded to make more money

Peace


------------------
Harvey
The TGP2 redirector
In Harvey we trust!

Kimmykim

Hey at least you're honest

The Hun

Ok, I'll answer some questions that were put here:

Are TGP players making less now than last year, are revenues still decreasing?
Does it make good business sense to give less free pix, send more visitors to sponsors and lower bandwidth bills?
Me personally has to answer 'no' to making less. I make more than I did last year, revenues are still going up. It is good thinking to give less free pics, more visitors to sponsors and lower bandwidth, but it's naive (in other words, not good business sense) to try to do that with thousands of TGPs out there.

Do you want your sites bookmarked by bandwidth sucking, no credit card using, free picture hunting leeches?
No, I HAVE (and want) my page bookmarked by people that indeed come back a lot, but many of 'em buy a membership every now and then. 'cause they trust my site and they trust what's advertised on there. I'd much rather have 2,000,000 people that bookmarked my site and that every now and then buy a membership than a business purely based on newbies that sign up once and then eventualy find a site like mine ;-)

Does it matter what your counter says?
Yes, it does if you're selling advertising on your page.

Who is really interested in what your checks are every week and every month?
huh?

From my perspective TGP2 offers a better revenue option. More eyes to sponsors (for list owners) and less bandwidth used (for galley builders)
I agree on the less bandwidth, I don't agree on the more eyes. Still, 0.5% of 50K is more than 1.5% of 2K...


Wolfshade. I don't know what gave you the idea, but I'm not against TGP2's (I prefer calling 'em CJ3) just because 'cause they would operate in my field. And that's because they simply don't. I make money 'cause I have all these bookmarkers. CJ3 is targeting newbies, 'cause once they found a "real" link-site they won't go back to CJ3. Simple as that. It's two separate markets, they're not operating in my field at all. And I'm sure one will never follow up the other. I'm not against 'em at all. I think it's naive to think it's a follow-up for TGP's though. Business-wise I don't think it's a very good idea. But I'm not against 'em. that's a misconception from you. I never stated anything along the lines of me being against TGP2's...

I always build businesses to serve clients. My clients are my visitors. As long as the visitors come I know the gallery submitters and advertisers will also come. The other way around it won't work. Advertisers are interested in sites with a lot of visitors, visitors are not interested in a site with a lot of adversisers...

Harvey put it in his post as well, I think he made a very strong point. It's two different strategies...



[This message has been edited by The Hun (edited 10-18-2001).]

harvey

Yes Hun, I'm always right so you'd list all my Terra galleries j/k (or not?)

Trenton

Correct, thats why I like dialers, because children dont have credit cards.

How else are you going to get money from kids surfing porn?

Moose

Why is Hun calling TGP2 a CJ?
I see this common misconception by many non-tgp2 people.

Lets get this straight....There is no bullshit allowed, just like on your sites..blind thumbs and such are not allowed. Everything is basically the same except 5 pics maximum.

We are not in the business of getting surfers off and having them jackoff to our free pics. If that is happening then you are doing something wrong (ieregualer tgp's) Once they make that mess they are not going to get out a credit card.

Our goal (and it is working) with TGP2 is to tease the surfer into "wanting" to join our paysites or sponsors.....Not letting him freely whack his willy at our expense.

I know the BIG tgp's like thier counters to spin.....
But honestly the traffic sucks,Taking 40,000 surfers to achieve a sale is unacceptable, and is causing the free porn market to crumble.

SleazyDream

The only market that's crumbling is the one were people live in a dream. TGPs are making more money than ever if bottom line net revenue is the goal. I say that for myself and many other people I know in this business.

If you have someone's attention you can sell them something. Period.

Nothing wrong with TGP2 - it's just living in a dream world is all.. saying you make more money on it.

Kimmykim

Ah Moose, I love it when you do those marketing 101 seminars.