TURKEY: PRO or CON E.U entrance (a little on the contraversial side)

[Platinum Mona]

Hi everyone,

I've been keeping up with the latest news events and have stumbled across this one: Turkey has just been granted the opportunity to begin membership talks with the E.U in Ankara on October 3, but linked the offer to effective Turkish recognition of Cyprus, which joined the EU in May. I am from Cyprus myself and I do not believe that Turkey should join the EU due to personal biases:

In July 20, 1974, Turkey launched a full scale invasion on Cyprus. The excuse was to protect its 18% Turkish minority of the island following a coup d' etat, though the goal was one of ethnic cleansing. As a result, 200,000 Greek Cypriots who fled to the south part of the island turned into refugees in their own country. This number corresponds to a close 40% of the entire Greek Cypriot population.

31 years after the invasion, Turkey continues to occupy 37% of the northern part of the island which has declared an independent state that is only recognized by her government. The "declaration of independence", and the forming of the so called "Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus" have been internationally condemned.

So the question is, knowing that the E.U has a full fledged set of "rules" or "standard" if you will to enter the Union, including humanitarian standards, should Turkey be allowed to enter the E.U.

And to add a little contraversey, should a predominately Muslim country be allowed to join what is called a "Christian" Club.

Thoughts on this please :-)

[polish_aristocrat]

I don't think they will join the EU within the next 10 years anyway.

[Excretor]

Vlad- Vlad- Vlad the impaler
Vlad- Vlad- he coulda been a whaler
Vlad- Vlad- Vlad the impaler
Vlad- Vlad- coulda been a whaler
Coulda been a tailor
He turned out to be Norman Mailer
When he was a boy
They sent him to the Turks
But they didn't like him
Because the Turks were jerks
When Vlad returned home his wrath
For his ancient foe he spurned
But the ancient art of impalement
Something the boy has learned

[Just_Dave]

here is something some people should know about the turkish government .

The Turkish government and the governments of other undemocratic countries spend millions of dollars every year to manipulate scholarship in American universities. The Turkish government's efforts in this area have been directed almost entirely to denying the Armenian Genocide.The Turkish government and the governments of other undemocratic countries spend millions of dollars every year to manipulate scholarship in American universities. The Turkish government's efforts in this area have been directed almost entirely to denying the Armenian Genocide.


here are some links you can read up on it

http://www.theforgotten.org/site/intro_eng.html

http://www.armenian-genocide.org/cur...tion_list.html

http://www.armenian-genocide.org/map-full.html

[Gunni]

Nope, don't want the Turks in Europe....
most of Turkey is in Asia anyway.

But I think it would be a good idea to make a trade agreement with them, so they would have the same trade rights with in Europe as EU countries.

[seeric]

yeah that was some fucked up shit.

over 1.5 million people lost their lives in that genocide.

kinda messed up that i am 34 years old and have never heard of this until now.l



another thing i think is fucked up. i am american indian. this country was basically stolen from our people by the government.
another tidbit of information that they dont teach you in american schools.

[naitirps]

fuck turks

[Abyss_Vee]

Originally posted by TrumpCash_Dave
here is something some people should know about the turkish government .

The Turkish government and the governments of other undemocratic countries spend millions of dollars every year to manipulate scholarship in American universities. The Turkish government's efforts in this area have been directed almost entirely to denying the Armenian Genocide.The Turkish government and the governments of other undemocratic countries spend millions of dollars every year to manipulate scholarship in American universities. The Turkish government's efforts in this area have been directed almost entirely to denying the Armenian Genocide.


here are some links you can read up on it

http://www.theforgotten.org/site/intro_eng.html

http://www.armenian-genocide.org/cur...tion_list.html

http://www.armenian-genocide.org/map-full.html

its about time people recognize the evil behind them

[sirrobin]

I say let the Turks in - there are no good donner kebabs places in my neighbourhood.

Look at Germany - so many good kebab places and so cheap too.

[abyss_al]

Originally posted by TrumpCash_Dave
here is something some people should know about the turkish government .

The Turkish government and the governments of other undemocratic countries spend millions of dollars every year to manipulate scholarship in American universities. The Turkish government's efforts in this area have been directed almost entirely to denying the Armenian Genocide.The Turkish government and the governments of other undemocratic countries spend millions of dollars every year to manipulate scholarship in American universities. The Turkish government's efforts in this area have been directed almost entirely to denying the Armenian Genocide.


here are some links you can read up on it

http://www.theforgotten.org/site/intro_eng.html

http://www.armenian-genocide.org/cur...tion_list.html

http://www.armenian-genocide.org/map-full.html

[Abyss_Vee]

Originally posted by abyss_al

wow you're awake

[Damian_Maxcash]

I think most Turks live in a 1 mile radius of me anyway.... and Im in North London!

Lots of Human rights issues to be sorted out before they can even be concidered.

I have a lot of Turkish friends, they are a stubborn lot and I cant see them backing down on Cyprus. Even the 2nd generation british/turks that I know will get irrate at the suggestion.

[Just_Dave]

Originally posted by A1R3K
yeah that was some fucked up shit.

over 1.5 million people lost their lives in that genocide.

kinda messed up that i am 34 years old and have never heard of this until now.l



another thing i think is fucked up. i am american indian. this country was basically stolen from our people by the government.
another tidbit of information that they dont teach you in american schools.

good looking out

[donnie]

Originally posted by Platinum Mona


And to add a little contraversey, should a predominately Muslim country be allowed to join what is called a "Christian" Club.

The take over is here. Bow to the power motherfuckers!!!

400 years ago we stopped at Vienna. Now we are going all the way!

P.S
I am not Turkish, but muslim.

[Lev]

Originally posted by TrumpCash_Dave
here is something some people should know about the turkish government .

The Turkish government and the governments of other undemocratic countries spend millions of dollars every year to manipulate scholarship in American universities. The Turkish government's efforts in this area have been directed almost entirely to denying the Armenian Genocide.The Turkish government and the governments of other undemocratic countries spend millions of dollars every year to manipulate scholarship in American universities. The Turkish government's efforts in this area have been directed almost entirely to denying the Armenian Genocide.


here are some links you can read up on it

http://www.theforgotten.org/site/intro_eng.html

http://www.armenian-genocide.org/cur...tion_list.html

http://www.armenian-genocide.org/map-full.html

not only that, the Turkish Government passed a law last year I think, that bans the freedom of speech about the Genocide in Turkey. So basically if you talk publicly about the Genocide you might be imprisoned, thats what happened to one Turkish teacher. A country like this should not even be considered joining the EU.

[Just_Dave]

Originally posted by Lev
not only that, the Turkish Government passed a law last year I think, that bans the freedom of speech about the Genocide in Turkey. So basically if you talk publicly about the Genocide you might be imprisoned, thats what happened to one Turkish teacher. A country like this should not even be considered joining the EU.

wow i didn't even know that

[Tipsy]

If it means proper kebabs up North (they're shit - you have to go down South to get a decent Doner or Shish) then I'm all for it.

If we aren't getting more kebabs then keep the murdering buggers out!

[Lev]

Originally posted by TrumpCash_Dave
wow i didn't even know that

Yeap, there are numerous cases, where people got arrested because of this:

"December 2000 ? A Syrian Orthodox priest could go to prison for 3 years under Article 312 of the Turkish penal code. Father Yusuf Akbulut is accused of "provoking hatred and religious enmity" because of statements he made to the press. Fr. Akubulut had not given the press permission to publish an interview in which he stated that Syrians, as well as Armenians, were targets of Turkish genocide 85 years ago. The Turkish government denies international allegations that it massacred more than a million Armenians during World War I. Thus, Fr. Akbulut?s statements are considered divisive. The next hearing is scheduled for February 22, 2001."

from http://www.persecution.org

[Mr Dickovitch]

Originally posted by donnie
The take over is here. Bow to the power motherfuckers!!!

400 years ago we stopped at Vienna. Now we are going all the way!

P.S
I am not Turkish, but muslim.

When the Muslims have taken over and when they find out what your job is they will stone you to death. I hope it happens soon.

[Probono]

I think the key issues are democracy and the economic issues. If admitted into the EU will Turks flood into the rest of the EU for jobs?

If so will this be good for either entity?

From what I see much of the EU is becoming very dependant on immigrants as native populations decline. Soon you might see the EUONA. The European Union Of Northern Africans.

After watching the tension in the Netherlands, the most tolerant of European countries I am not sure europe could handle the influx and loss of culture.

[Damian_Maxcash]

Originally posted by Probono
I think the key issues are democracy and the economic issues. If admitted into the EU will Turks flood into the rest of the EU for jobs?

If so will this be good for either entity?

From what I see much of the EU is becoming very dependant on immigrants as native populations decline. Soon you might see the EUONA. The European Union Of Northern Africans.

After watching the tension in the Netherlands, the most tolerant of European countries I am not sure europe could handle the influx and loss of culture.

They have already decided that Turks wont be allowed to just go anywhere in Europe.... even if they get accepted into the fully into the EU

Everyone agreed on that before anything else!! Most of Europe obviously has the same concerns

[Probono]

Originally posted by damian2001
They have already decided that Turks wont be allowed to just go anywhere in Europe.... even if they get accepted into the fully into the EU

Everyone agreed on that before anything else!! Most of Europe obviously has the same concerns

So the EU will become two tiered entity? Turkey a second class citizen, I am not sure that makes sense and if it does happen I warrant it will not be for long after admission that they petition for the same status as all other nations in the EU.

[nemesis]

armenians are funny people.

[VideoPass_Alex]

Originally posted by nemesis
armenians are funny people.

why you say that

[nemesis]

Originally posted by Probono
So the EU will become two tiered entity? Turkey a second class citizen, I am not sure that makes sense and if it does happen I warrant it will not be for long after admission that they petition for the same status as all other nations in the EU.

this has been done before for the members of the EU. Until the economy of the accepted member catches up the with the rest of the EU, there is no moving around.

[hilly]

We should wellcome Turks. They fought with the British Empire
for many years. WW1, Crimea, You name it.

[Lev]

Originally posted by nemesis
armenians are funny people.

I don't see anything funny about people who suffered a full scale Genocide, deportation, massacres, loss of their ancestral lands in the hands of your forefathers. If anything, you should be ashamed of your country and your origins.

[NichePay_Manny]

Turks are MFP so all

[Platinum Mona]

I agree with probono, i don't think that Europe is at the stage where they can accept a sudden surge in culture shock, especially since there are EU issues concerning the santity of identity.

[Platinum Mona]

I agree with probono, i don't think that Europe is at the stage where they can accept a sudden surge in culture shock, especially since there are EU issues concerning the santity of identity.

And I definitely think that IF they join the Union, that there will be a HUGE influx of Turkish immigrants seeking employment. You should see them in Northern Cyprus, its a shit hole where they have settled. I haven't seen poverty like this amidst a European country (even if Cyprus is a new entrant).

[HenrySugar]

Originally posted by polish_aristocrat
I don't think they will join the EU within the next 10 years anyway.

Hi, To be able to make comments, you need to know history well and should not look the event at only one point of view. Cyprus was given to England to Protect it from Russia During the war of Crimea at the 19th Century. To that date the muslims are much more there. We can say the same for Cretan. And now although there are Turkish people here in Turkey who can say freely that they are Cretan, There is no Turkish People there in Cretan ;). Making comments by comparing the population is a bit problamatic. Although the population in Cyprus is against Turkish citizens now, it was not like this 100 year before.
Claiming that Turks made a ethnic cleansing is totally bullshit!. Do you know how many Turkish villages are burned among the years 1964-1974 by Eonian Party (I dont know the full english name) in Cyprus. Turkish Women are raped and even babies are killed. Even a "Rum" (In Turkey we call the civilian of southern cyprus like this) Man made a documentary film on this. After this, he is refused by his own country and his film is forbidden to shown.
Turkish Army couldnt find any civilian "Rum" as they all run away. Even the army could hardly stop some Turkish Tanks by landing some helicopters in front of them as they didnt know that there was a cease fire . In Turkey some people think like this; We should get the whole island so there wouldnt be a Cyprus problem for us . From the date of 1974 there havent been any battle in the island.
This year, Nouthern Cyprus Turkish People voted for YES to the Annan's plan and Rums said NO although this plan is very similar to what Rums wanted for years. The Ones Who dont want to join with Nouthern Side Turks are the "Rum" people. Rums all wanted to join Greece.
Ottoman Empire and as well as Turkey is agreed to be a European Country from the date of Paris Agreement in 1873. Today in the world, Turkey is the most democratic and maybe the only laic muslim country in the world and Turkey made this achivements by itself with its nation.
When an European comittee comes to Turkey, the first place they go is becoming "Diyarbakýr". Just Curious, Did the committee went to Nothern Ireland, Bask, Corsica When England,Spain or France is becoming a member?. Today when you are living in a big apartment you may have at least 3 or 4 kurdish neighbours which you cant realise that they are kurdish until they tell you. In Turkey There are at least 27 different ethnic types of people are living. Even the Turkish people can be divided to 10-15 minor ethnics. If you compare this you can easily see that Turkey is like micro-usa or micro-europe.
I think it would be a big mistake to deny a country like Turkey whose nation is very willing to join. Because gaining friends ia hard but opposite is easy. I know there are lots of things which Turkey should correct before joining completely, but Cyprus is not one of this. We will ofcourse recognise Cyprus in a day but this will be the whole Cyprus not only the southern Part !

Oops My quote was for the friend that started the thread not for you polish_aristocrat, I agree about the time with you...

[xmas13]

2 fucking BIG POINTS:

THEY DENY A MASSIVE GENOCIDE, cf Armenian Genocide ak47:

THEY ARE NOT EVEN IN EUROPE, cf Thrace has been stolen to Greeks :

[nemesis]

Originally posted by xmas13
2 fucking BIG POINTS:

THEY DENY A MASSIVE GENOCIDE, cf Armenian Genocide ak47:

THEY ARE NOT EVEN IN EUROPE, cf Thrace has been stolen to Greeks :

funny thing is that your big issues has nothing to do with Turkey's membership.

There are big problems that both sides are trying to solve before the full membership is hiven and non of them covers your "big Points".

[Lev]

Originally posted by HenrySugar
Hi, To be able to make comments, you need to know history well and should not look the event at only one point of view. Cyprus was given to England to Protect it from Russia During the war of Crimea at the 19th Century. To that date the muslims are much more there. We can say the same for Cretan. And now although there are Turkish people here in Turkey who can say freely that they are Cretan, There is no Turkish People there in Cretan ;). Making comments by comparing the population is a bit problamatic. Although the population in Cyprus is against Turkish citizens now, it was not like this 100 year before.
Claiming that Turks made a ethnic cleansing is totally bullshit!. Do you know how many Turkish villages are burned among the years 1964-1974 by Eonian Party (I dont know the full english name) in Cyprus. Turkish Women are raped and even babies are killed. Even a "Rum" (In Turkey we call the civilian of southern cyprus like this) Man made a documentary film on this. After this, he is refused by his own country and his film is forbidden to shown.
Turkish Army couldnt find any civilian "Rum" as they all run away. Even the army could hardly stop some Turkish Tanks by landing some helicopters in front of them as they didnt know that there was a cease fire . In Turkey some people think like this; We should get the whole island so there wouldnt be a Cyprus problem for us . From the date of 1974 there havent been any battle in the island.
This year, Nouthern Cyprus Turkish People voted for YES to the Annan's plan and Rums said NO although this plan is very similar to what Rums wanted for years. The Ones Who dont want to join with Nouthern Side Turks are the "Rum" people. Rums all wanted to join Greece.
Ottoman Empire and as well as Turkey is agreed to be a European Country from the date of Paris Agreement in 1873. Today in the world, Turkey is the most democratic and maybe the only laic muslim country in the world and Turkey made this achivements by itself with its nation.
When an European comittee comes to Turkey, the first place they go is becoming "Diyarbakýr". Just Curious, Did the committee went to Nothern Ireland, Bask, Corsica When England,Spain or France is becoming a member?. Today when you are living in a big apartment you may have at least 3 or 4 kurdish neighbours which you cant realise that they are kurdish until they tell you. In Turkey There are at least 27 different ethnic types of people are living. Even the Turkish people can be divided to 10-15 minor ethnics. If you compare this you can easily see that Turkey is like micro-usa or micro-europe.
I think it would be a big mistake to deny a country like Turkey whose nation is very willing to join. Because gaining friends ia hard but opposite is easy. I know there are lots of things which Turkey should correct before joining completely, but Cyprus is not one of this. We will ofcourse recognise Cyprus in a day but this will be the whole Cyprus not only the southern Part !

Oops My quote was for the friend that started the thread not for you polish_aristocrat, I agree about the time with you...

So you are saying that all the documents (from Turkish archives by the way), witness account reports, newspaper articles (The New York times published over 1000 articles about how the Ottoman Government were massacring Christians and described the Armenian massacres as a "Genocide"), hundreds of historians agreeing about the Genocide and over 15 countries all over the world have recognized the events in 1915 as a Genocide (Russia, Argentina, France, Canada, Greece, Switzerland ect...)

I would recommend you to read some books and do some research before coming here and talking rubbish. Calling the Genocide as "bullshit" is the only argument your kind and Turkey will ever have.

Turkey's whole history is based on massacring innocent people, oppressing minorities. The "Pan Turkish" mentality did not change a bit as your "secular" government claims. The EU does not need barbarians.

[- Jesus Christ -]

Multicountry currency is DANGROUS SHIT.


I don't give a fuck wich countries participate.

[xmas13]

Originally posted by nemesis
funny thing is that your big issues has nothing to do with Turkey's membership.

There are big problems that both sides are trying to solve before the full membership is hiven and non of them covers your "big Points".

WELL THERE IS NO MEMBERSHIP TO DISCUSS, THATS THE POINT.

ANYWAY POLITICIANS DONT GIVE A DAMN OF THEIR POPULATIONS THIS IS TRUE FOR EVERY SINGLE COUNTRY ON EARTH

[xmas13]

LEV U R MY GOD BOSTON RULES!

[Damian_Maxcash]

Originally posted by Platinum Mona
I agree with probono, i don't think that Europe is at the stage where they can accept a sudden surge in culture shock, especially since there are EU issues concerning the santity of identity.

And I definitely think that IF they join the Union, that there will be a HUGE influx of Turkish immigrants seeking employment. You should see them in Northern Cyprus, its a shit hole where they have settled. I haven't seen poverty like this amidst a European country (even if Cyprus is a new entrant).

1. As I already said , Turks will not be able to move around Europe looking for work.... That has already been decided, before they even opened discussions with Turkey

2. Northern Cyprus is FAR from being a shithole.... Its a great place. I have been 3 times and places in London, most major Cities in Europe and the US are a LOT worse.



Im not pro Turkey BTW, I dont think they should be allowed in... but lets stick to the facts

[Theo]

Originally posted by HenrySugar
Hi, To be able to make comments, you need to know history well and should not look the event at only one point of view. Cyprus was given to England to Protect it from Russia During the war of Crimea at the 19th Century. To that date the muslims are much more there. We can say the same for Cretan. And now although there are Turkish people here in Turkey who can say freely that they are Cretan, There is no Turkish People there in Cretan ;). Making comments by comparing the population is a bit problamatic. Although the population in Cyprus is against Turkish citizens now, it was not like this 100 year before.
Claiming that Turks made a ethnic cleansing is totally bullshit!. Do you know how many Turkish villages are burned among the years 1964-1974 by Eonian Party (I dont know the full english name) in Cyprus. Turkish Women are raped and even babies are killed. Even a "Rum" (In Turkey we call the civilian of southern cyprus like this) Man made a documentary film on this. After this, he is refused by his own country and his film is forbidden to shown.
Turkish Army couldnt find any civilian "Rum" as they all run away. Even the army could hardly stop some Turkish Tanks by landing some helicopters in front of them as they didnt know that there was a cease fire . In Turkey some people think like this; We should get the whole island so there wouldnt be a Cyprus problem for us . From the date of 1974 there havent been any battle in the island.
This year, Nouthern Cyprus Turkish People voted for YES to the Annan's plan and Rums said NO although this plan is very similar to what Rums wanted for years. The Ones Who dont want to join with Nouthern Side Turks are the "Rum" people. Rums all wanted to join Greece.
Ottoman Empire and as well as Turkey is agreed to be a European Country from the date of Paris Agreement in 1873. Today in the world, Turkey is the most democratic and maybe the only laic muslim country in the world and Turkey made this achivements by itself with its nation.
When an European comittee comes to Turkey, the first place they go is becoming "Diyarbakýr". Just Curious, Did the committee went to Nothern Ireland, Bask, Corsica When England,Spain or France is becoming a member?. Today when you are living in a big apartment you may have at least 3 or 4 kurdish neighbours which you cant realise that they are kurdish until they tell you. In Turkey There are at least 27 different ethnic types of people are living. Even the Turkish people can be divided to 10-15 minor ethnics. If you compare this you can easily see that Turkey is like micro-usa or micro-europe.
I think it would be a big mistake to deny a country like Turkey whose nation is very willing to join. Because gaining friends ia hard but opposite is easy. I know there are lots of things which Turkey should correct before joining completely, but Cyprus is not one of this. We will ofcourse recognise Cyprus in a day but this will be the whole Cyprus not only the southern Part !

Oops My quote was for the friend that started the thread not for you polish_aristocrat, I agree about the time with you...

Turkish army occupied Cyprus and murdered people. Of course that's not an issue for you, occupying the whole island would had been a better solution.

[Lev]

Originally posted by nemesis
funny thing is that your big issues has nothing to do with Turkey's membership.

There are big problems that both sides are trying to solve before the full membership is hiven and non of them covers your "big Points".

It certainly has. Having a country which perpetrated a Genocide entering the EU will be all against what the EU stands for. The EU parliament which recognized the Armenian Genocide, if admits Turkey to the EU, agains it will go agaisnt their beliefs.

Do you think Germany would ever have been accepted to the EU if it has denied the Jewish Holocoust to this day? I support the entry of Turkey to the EU, but only after it changed its mentality towards the minorities, finding a solution to the Cyprus issue, but most importatly coming face to face with its past. A country can never move on without accepting its past. The Genocide issue is going to haunt Turkey forever until it rocognizes it and reconciles with the Armenian people, who will fight and fight until the Genocide is recognized by the whole world and especially Turkey. We have patience, we can wait.

[Lev]

Originally posted by xmas13
LEV U R MY GOD BOSTON RULES!

thanks

you Armenian?

[xmas13]

London is the most anti Europe town in Europe, i can understand Damian point of view

lets lobby for Israel entrance. i am fucking jewish and want israel in Europe

Germans and French, the European engine, 2/3 against Turkey entrance according to polls i read, and 2/3 of European politicians at parliament voted for Turkey.

Politicians are miserable shits, i hate them so much bc of all the ppl dying and suffering bc of their greediness stupidity and everything. they are EVIL.

i think Anarchism is still better than Socialism.

God Bless America

[xmas13]

fucking jewish i am and i hate genocide denials

[Lev]

Originally posted by xmas13
fucking jewish i am and i hate genocide denials

I can't tolerate that too. Our people's history is very similiar. Both of our people were prosecuted and discriminated, but the worst, massacred because of their race. Hopefully justice will come to all the people who experienced the worst crime against humanity, a Genocide.

Thanks for your support

[nemesis]

Originally posted by Soul_Rebel
Turkish army occupied Cyprus and murdered people. Of course that's not an issue for you, occupying the whole island would had been a better solution.

Why did Turkey occupied the island?

(just curious on your view of the whole occupation)

[UniversalPassLorence]

They don't belong in the EU

[xmas13]

ya Jewish and Armenian diasporas proved they are great ppl, not like some white trash from Texas or some European stupid neo communists, created multinationals, hired 100,000s of Americans Europeans, founded the best hospitals, fought for Human Rights...... we are owed so much, and even if Armenians are not high profiled like Jews, i met a lot of Armenians and they are awesome, i just dont understand what happened during the 20th Century, i think everything is the fault of sick politicians in German and Ottoman empires, fucking politicians alwyas there, Satan is among us!

they reproached the Jews and Armenians to be the best merchants and hold their finances, race was a shitty argument to shoot their competitors

now its time for politicians to make their mea culpa if they dont want to finish hanged in public squares

[Theo]

What would change if I tell you? You don't make progress because you never admit your mistakes. You can come up with any excuse and try to justify it. I'll help you on that: It was for humanitarian reasons and a successful effort to bring stability to the area. Do you have anything more to add?

[nemesis]

Originally posted by Soul_Rebel
What would change if I tell you? You don't make progress because you never admit your mistakes. You can come up with any excuse and try to justify it. I'll help you on that: It was for humanitarian reasons and a successful effort to bring stability to the area. Do you have anything more to add?

I am just curious to hear why you think Turkey occupied the island. There must be a reason, right?

[abyss_al]

tukrs=not human.. all should be burned to death, then pissed on to kill the fire