1. CD - You're basicly right in all You say it's just the form which is very wrong. From my humble opinion when You speak with woman and speak about rape , be it just fantasy rape site, I dont think You should really stress anyone. I do understand that You are RIGHT and they are wrong but You're on the wrong foot here. Protecting the free speech and Your right or anyone's right to have ANY fantasy You have as long as it does no hurt anyone is correct but insulting anyone in any form because they dont understand is wrong. I myself cant blame anyone for not understanding that there's nothing bad in rape fantasy.

No offense though. Just my point of view.

2. Gem. You're making an obvious mistake here. Think about it this way - is there's really so much difference between rape fantasy and just the usuall porn? You tell us that You dont want to take chances that a sick man will look on those pics then go out on the street and rape anyone. Right? Well how do You take chances then that he wont do it just by being excited by normal porn?

In fact there are so many sick people out there that if I were You with Your view of life I'd never touch porn at all. Because porn gives SEXUAL EXCITEMENT being a huge natural stimulator thus how can You guarantee that various sick fucks like rapists , pedophiles (!) or simply unstable people will not suddenly burst in different crimes killing, kidnapping and raping everyone in sight just because they saw a nice teen girl in a cheerleader outfit sucking a black cock?!

Also You say You'd be the one sitting in the back of the court room cheering? Just like those witchcraft courts You had couple of hundred years ago I think...there were also a lot of people in the back of courts cheering.

Also You dont get how a female may like rape fantasy? Well. I dont get how MALES can like ... BDSM ...how they like SCAT ...but me being 22 years old I still cant get how they like MATURE niche at all... Who the fuck can be excited by 50 year old woman?!?

And of course I also dont understang GAYS at all. Fuck - they are disgusting to me.

Unfortunately it doesnt make them immoral or illegal.

The only real problem with rape fantasy is it's name. Remove it and suddenly You aint got no problem at all. Anyone of You.

3.Kit - I'll repeat. In my humble opinion fantasy rape like those pics or stories are very very different from real life rape. In fact I have a strong feeling that noone was ever raped from those who look through those sites and enjoy them and those who make it.

Just my point of view.

This one's for the censorship nuts:

Bottom line here is, you can rant and rave 'til the fuckin' sheep come home, but you're never going to be able to DICTATE what people THINK about. ("think" being an appropriate replacement for "fantasize") Whether you want it to be right or wrong, whether you pass a million laws about it or not.... you can never force someone to NOT think about whatever the hell they want to, short of killing that person.

Hence, I submit... if it can be thought of.... there will always be a demnd for it. And as long as there is a demand for it, there will be a supplier. Provided that supplier is not performing illegal acts, there is not a FUCKING thing you can do about it. It's business. I don't like Amway salesmen, but we don't ban them, do we? And you are going to argue that Amway salesmen are not comparable to fantasy rape pics, but they are. Those fuckers are scary.

So summing up here... I can't tell you what you can THINK about anymore than you can tell me what I must THINK about. And as long as someone is asking... someone will be providing. And it doesn't have a fucking thing to do with whether or not you like it, endorse it, agree with it, fight against it, cry over it, send sad emails about it to your whole family, or sleep on your fucking congressman's doorstep with a big yellow sign and a button on your hat. If it's illegal, they will be eventually busted and do time for it. If not.... leave them the fuck alone. And the next time you get up on a big fucking horse to go on a power trip, remember... I don't care how fuckin' great your Amway products are.

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BITCH SLAPPIN' STUPID PEOPLE EVERYWHERE

[This message has been edited by Amputate Your Head (edited 10-01-2001).]

Why don't they go ahead and ban Nabokov's Lolita or Kubrick's Clockwork Orange, too. Both classics...

Btw, still looking forward to my 18th birthday. Or was it already? Shit I dont remember, maybe I was too drunk.

Well, I live on the housing estate where Clockwork Orange was filmed. I go through the garages where they hung out almost every day (scary place).

You may not be aware but in the UK Kubrick self banned the film. There are varying reasons but one of them was his concern because people were copying the things they saw in the film.

It was only after his death that it was able to be shown in the UK. It was such a big deal that they rereleased it and showed it in the big cinemas.

Just a FYI.

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"The real facts are that the two precidents set in Canada covering this subject specifically "

I could care less about Canadian law... OMG they even think they can cause the US probs if we seal our borders. lol We have to work with OUR laws since we live here.

The FBI is not the court system and THEY do not decide which cases can be tried. They only try and work with the laws as each agent can interpret them.

Our law states 'implied' - same as fantasy under the few precedents set so far.

For Incognito... we were late in the witch trials. Europe had them all well before the US did. http://bbs.gofuckyourself.net/board/wink.gif

I may not have worded my thoughts the best way on this and by no means am trying to be the 'Cop' here. But we DO need to draw a line someplace. Why not leave the things that bother half of the population on the wrong side of the line? Is it because you CAN do it? Power trip? Or is the real bottom line that you will make money.... Yet 90% of the ones saying its ok will rail at a tgp gallery with one banner and 50 hi rez pics on terra. What IS the difference? You either have ethics or you don't.

And trying to qualify the Internet as a staged production from a real movie company is 1) not precedented and 2) hah hah (simpsons kid laff)

------------------------
BITCH SLAPPIN' STUPID PEOPLE EVERYWHERE

thought you were going to go kick some unarmed goat herder tail? Oh thats right! You won't go unless a woman goes with you to show HER guts. Coward. How about we just nuke them? Is it starting to hurt slapping yourself so much?

------------------------


But I did think this thread was for us to post our thoughts on the subject... Not have other twisted minds ram their beliefs down our throats. I would take heed to the negativity of the female posts unless you truly ARE just doing it for the $$$. If thats the case then no one will reach thru.

And to your knowledge, did the level of violence, rapes and murders go up in society because of it?


Incognito -- I take a stronger "tone" with Gem because she has viciously attacked me out of the blue once before over a similar issue to do with my brother's website that shows short video clips from larget movies containing his brand of special f/x in murder scenes. He produces bullet hits, arrow impacts and stabbing scenes, all the effects are done on his computer with software, and he's one of only a handful of guys in the world that can do those f/x to the level of realism that he does. Gem and a few others hate it because in his films he uses only women. Women in combat with each other, women in scenes where they are being double-crossed by ex-husband, women (characters) that have become a liability to the mob thus they are "taken out" by a hit-man etc. etc. The script list is endless, but it's all fantasy. Gem and her crew only see it as violence against women though, so she seems to want to attack me at every opportunity when I speak up for the cause of anti-censorship.

I should also add in here that a few local cops that are members of an extremely fundamentalist church have taken it upon themselves to arrest my brother and me for obsenity last year, directly to do with his website. They found themselves a hired gun feminist lawyer from Toronto and they have blabbed a lot of untruths about us to the media, which a lot of people like Gem seem to buy into without fleshing out the real truth.

That is why I pull no punches where these issues are concerned. Fact is, if her and her cohorts were to meet me and find out what I'm really like, I'm sure they'd feel differently, but in her mind I'm already convicted. Wishful thinking. Another fact is that although I've watched a good deal of violence in my life in cartoons, books, tv and movies, if I were to see a real rape occuring I would kick the guy's ass from here to Minot North Dakota, and I would help the lady in any way possible. I'm saying this because I'm no different than you in that I don't like my character assassinated.

I hope that clears things up some.
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I could care less about Canadian law...

No, actually you could care less about the truth Gem. Face it, you've been a hardass bitch to me lately, because you don't want to face the truth or even acknowledge it.

And trying to qualify the Internet as a staged production from a real movie company is 1) not precedented

Sorry, but again you're wrong. The internet contains movie-trailer sites to the tune of thousands in numbers, and many small movie companies are now internet-based. You're just sqirming here, again struggling against the truth.

and 2) hah hah (simpsons kid laff)

Sadly, this is all I really expect from you anyway lately. Out comes the smartass when others disagree with you. (or challenge your opinion)

Not have other twisted minds ram their beliefs down our throats.

"Other" twisted minds? You mean you're admitting that your mind is twisted as well? Okay you surprised me on this one Gem. LOL

Again, people with opinions that are in phase varience to your own have "twisted" minds, right? I'm not ramming anything down anyone's throat Gem, I'm merely exercising MY right to voice MY opinion here too. My mind is anything but twisted, contrary to your opinion which seems rather narrow & closed-minded at the moment.

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[This message has been edited by CDSmith (edited 10-01-2001).]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by CDSmith:
And to your knowledge, did the level of violence, rapes and murders go up in society because of it?

Actually I wasn't even attempting to debate that with my reply. I was just pointing out to the previous poster that what he was using as a far fetched idea had already happened.

The difference between UK society from when Clockwork Orange first was released and today is so vast that you can't really do a proper study. When Clockwork came out it was truly shocking. Mostly do to the violence and rape for fun aspects. People did go out and try to emulate what they saw on the screeen. Not everyone of course but some did and that is why the creator took the decission. Which I think it relevant to this thread.

In todays world, when it was rerelease we are desenitised to violence on the screen to a large degree. There aren't huge expolsions in Clockwork so it was adults who went to see it..not the general movie going public.



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CDSmith:
Hm...point taken.

My idea is that FEMINISM is even worse than rape - cause it's so fucking stupid and as it always is with such shit someone just makes their bucks out of it by using dumb people.

As for the discussion I will continue to stress on the fact that sick people are sick people and no rape fantasy can motivate them or make normal people sick and for normal people internet fantasies, just as books in many ways and videos does not do any harm at all cause such is human nature.

*Muffles a scream because she can't believe she just read that*


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Hot tropical Babe,

"A group of dirty wogs" =

In Oz we call anyone who is from a medditerranean country (and sometimes the middle east) a wog.
However when people say 'wog' they are usually reffering to either Italians or Greeks.


I don't know how or why the tem 'dirty wog' came about - I'm not sure if it has a sexual meaning or if it just reffering to the hygeine of ethnics in general (however unjustified it may be).

I hope I haven't offended anyone with this comment - but most wogs don't seeem to care...i call my man (who is greek) a dirty wog all the time - he even calls himself and his mates dirty wogs so...

hope that clears it up for you

--- www.sexcontents.com - See lovely young girls getting fucked by dirty wogs

That cleared it up ,, Thanks

I'm feeling a bit woggish myself this evening. Just got my final check for excess money in my retirement fund (from my former job that I quit nearly 2 years ago), and I just sold a pile of content for a pile of moolah.

I think I'll sip some cold wine, have a hot shower to wash the dirty woggishness off, and then dream about being raped by a handful of you lovely webmistresses http://bbs.gofuckyourself.net/board/biggrin.gif (if that's okay, you know, a man having fantasies of being raped by 4 women) LOL
(I could play-act that I was unwilling)

ROFL!!!!!!!

Ahem....okay, sorry, more wine needed here.
hee heee

...can I be in on that???? :P

CD, why don't you change your sig? How about something like: "I have trouble with the canadian justice, and as soon as I hear something that could be censorship, I shut down my brain."

"If someone's prone to committing real rape or any real crime, other studies have shown .....". That is what I want to see. Show these studies, that came to the result that sick ppl calm down looking to fake rape pix. And you posted again studies that have absolutly nothing to do with this question. It has something to do with your problems with the canadian justice, but that's all. Non of your studies has anything to do with ppl with schizophrenia or psychosis or any other brain damage.

And that's why I call you low, CD. In the whole thread I can't find any post, that stated that violence or sex or both has negative impacts to mental sane ppl. But the whole time you are acting as if I would do so, and this with the additude of the last defender of the freedom. Low, CD, no arguments, only low style.
(When I have nothing better to do, I will post tomorrow why Donnersteins studies are bullshit)

AMP: You are a little bit confusing the last two days. After my posts about ppl with schizophrenia or another psychosis, you post about your own experiences. Do you feel concerned if I'm writing about sickos?

And at last a hint to ppl with problems to read a post: here is only one person talking about censorship for fantasys in our heads. The rest of the thread is about pictures or movies with simulated rape. And in on of my posts I wrote about drawings of kiddyporn, and in the next message I used the term "fake kiddyporn" for this. Do you think it should be allowed? In the USA it's allowed, in some other countries not. And you can go one step further: if you know how to handle photoshop or something similar, you can create pictures that have nothing to do with a real person, but that show kiddyporn.So you can have kiddyporn without a victim - should this be allowed?

I honestly never saw you as such a fucking whiner Heinz. I never made any such claim about studies of effects on people with mental dysfunctions. What is your whole point again exactly? That we should remove 1000's of sites from the net because of Heinz's fear that mentally disturbed people MIGHT be encouraged by them to do harm?

Your whole argument is completely inane buddy. Your new law according to Heinz would again have to extend to movies and other media such as TV. Why? Because psycotics may be watching "Hannibal" or "Silence of the Lambs" or Scream 1-3 or Friday the 13th 1-400 or WHATEVER. Hell, the Rocky series of movies is pretty violent, better yank them too! Duhh

And Heinz, up until now I've never seen you as the type that is quick to insult and attack when your opinion is challenged. Get over it, get over yourself and get on with your life.

Can you do that? Thanks pal http://bbs.gofuckyourself.net/board/biggrin.gif
Are we still friends? C'mon, gimme a kiss!! Okay a hug at LEAST http://bbs.gofuckyourself.net/board/biggrin.gif http://bbs.gofuckyourself.net/board/biggrin.gif
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The problem isnt with people having fantasies. People can sit and fantasize about rapin a fuckin dog for all I care. But when its placed on the net, or anywhere that others (and especially children) are able to see it, then it must be stopped. I dont care if its real or fake, if it is accessible by the public then it needs to be removed, that simple.

Than what the fuck You do porn for? Or do You think normal porn wont hurt children if they see it? Say in age of 12?

Now I am tired of this bullshit too.
It's as simple as that - SICK person is SICK person and OFFENSIVE materials dont make NORMAL people sick in no way.
That is why we have VIOLENCE AND SEX all over books, tv's and newspapers.

Unlike RAPE fantasies or anything by the way CP is not just offensive it is a crime already done because it has got REAL VICTIMS in it.
And that's it. What is so fucking difficult?

Better take your own sites down then, because by the same token I don't give a shit weather your site is real or fantasy either. If you have naked people on your site, then your site is harmful shit and needs to be destroyed, and the person that made it must be labelled as a sick fuck.

Where do you draw the fucking line boyo?
I recommend you take a mittful of Tylenols and bang your fucking head against a wall as hard as you can for an hour straight. Let me know if it knocks any sense into you.

You know, it bothers me that people come onto a thread this size, they don't read any of the fucking posts beyond the first few, then they shoot their all-knowing opinion out there and proclaim the way it ought to be. Meanwhile, people have already addressed your lame shit opinion 40 posts back, but you don't have the time to actually read what was said (yet you have the time to squawk your bullshite right?).

If you're going to puke your opinion out here, at least take the time to read the discussion. It's the human thing to do. Squawking your slanted misinformed opinion without all the facts is what a dumbass does. Ask yourself before you post..."am I a dumbass?"
If the answer is "yes", then maybe you best keep your fat mouth shut. Maybe. Otherwise take your chances and look like an idiot.

Remember the old saying Rivux.... "It is better to keep silent and be thought of as a fool, than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt"

Ponder that before you answer.

Why am I so pissed at your lame stupid remarks? Because it isn't up to me to babysit your brat kids, it's YOUR responsibilty as a parent to keep them safe. I have disclaimers and links to screening services on all my sites, do you? After that it is up to parents to watch the kids. It is up to the parents to keep their brats away from adult sites. To think any differently is to agree with A_ss_c_r_o_f_t. Do you WANT all adult sites removed? No? Then rethink your position.

K I didnt want to quote your whole post, but there was lots in there that made no sense. Yes I did read all the messages, have been reading from the beginning but decided to post now. As well, I dont give two shits if someone has already posted what I said, I believe I am entitled to let my opinion be known, regardless if I share it with someone else.

And as for your point

"by the same token I don't give a shit weather your site is real or fantasy either. If you have naked people on your site, then your site is harmful shit and needs to be destroyed..."

I wasnt saying that sites with this material or material that is harmful should be taken down. But I dont think it should be so accessible by the public. That has always been my beef with sites like thehun, there is no warning page, no entry page, nothing, just straight to the goods. If you run a pay site, or an avs site and you want to have this material on your site, then fine its up to you since you need a credit card to gain entrance. But to have this shit open to the public I dont feel is responsible.

As well

"it isnt up to me to babysit your brat kids, its your responsibility as a parent to keep them safe"

I agree with this completely. But I also think that it is up to individuals to live morally correct lives, and that is something that is up to YOU, and their are things on the net that I dont think are morally correct. So regardless of whether a child could find it, I believe that the person putting it on the net should look at themselves and decide if what they are doing is morally correct.

Now lets not get into a debate on what is morally correct and what is not. For the most part, its up the the individual to decide, but when someone makes a decision that goes against the morals of the majority then they have to realize that they could be shut down. And if they are stopped, that they shouldnt bitch about it since they know that they are going against the majority. Its not always a matter of whether its legal or not, its whether its right or not to be doing it.

To the moms here, um, I'm a father of 3 and just as concerned about my kids as you are...not all fathers are venomous slobs who give shit one about the kids...

I pointed to the study of violence on children as an example. Personally, I think all censorship is harmful, be it violence, sex or religious views...

Gem, as for being the redhead in the back of the courtroom...don't worry, if a big bad prosecutor in Utah decides to come after you for showing pubic hair on a website, I'll still be out there fighting for your right to do so...I hold no grudges when it comes to first amendment rights.

<<Arguing FOR this subject so as to cater to a handful of surfers that are already prone to this subject might very well BE encouraging them enough to commit the crime. So for a few doallrs to the pocket you are willing to even take a chance???>>>

Well, if you listen to Donna Rice, ALL porn is harmful, so should we listen to her side and just take all our porn down? There just might be someone out there catching a glimpse of a bikini-clad Cindy Margolis who goes on a rape rampage...When I defend sites such as these, I'm not always condoning the content or actions, rather the right to use such content...and the crazy thing? The defense I provide these sites is the SAME defense I provide of YOUR right to YOUR opinion...because, as you've stated, it's your site and you run it the way you see fit..so why not afford that right to others whose views may not reflect yours...remember who we have as our Attorney General? No matter how "safe" you feel your sites are, he looks at you with the same disgust as you have for fantasy rape sites...

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Evil is as evil does
http://www.darkdollars.com

A very logical point in a way. Trouble is that FREE content is already the part of online porn buisness.
Just like You said about the Hun.

So the only thing You can do is forbid one sort of content for free and allow another which leads to double standarts again and still does not remove the problem that TV, News and mass media generally show more violence daily than all internet sites annualy.

So basicly if FREE porn is a part of online porn biz free rape fantasy porn is just the same.

Great replies. Thanks all.

Okay Rivux, I suppose the point about warnings etc wasn't made clear in your first post earlier. I agree, in that I have included warnings on all my sites, plus links to netnanny & cybersitter etc. I can live with that, and from there on it's up to parents themselves to protect their own kids.

You hit me with that post when I was in a pretty bad mood last night, and I apologise for my vehemence. I get riled when I've clarified my opinion over and over yet find myself presented with the same arguments in repetition. Didn't mean to take off on you personally.

I agree that there are a few minimal things that some webmasters could do to at least warn surfers about the content of their sites. It's standard procedure with me, but not with everyone. But as you've seen here, I'm a huge advocate of freedom of expression online, especially where it pertains to fantasy anything. I should think that more webmasters, content providers and even movie producers would be voicing a stronger opinion on this issue. Maybe Wes Craven will get his ass over here and straighten out a few people's heads, who knows? Stranger things have happened.

CD,
Your blindness is getting boring.

I'll leave this thread now. After the return of Boneprone I'm sure I will find some entertainment with some other threads.

And no doubt "Bow to the Messiah" will be just as funny for the millionth time.



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FREE GARY

Hmmm, maybe so. Your naivete is getting amusing http://bbs.gofuckyourself.net/board/biggrin.gif

I'll leave this thread now.

Three cheers. drinks anyone?

Oh and Heinz.......I still want that kiss big fella.