The problem occurs when you try to decide what is fantasy and what is real. Would you all agree that the fuckin' dinosaurs in Jurassic Park looked pretty damn real? Well, they weren't. So unless you're on the scene with the photographer when he's shooting it, how the hell are you ever gonna know?

You're not. It's a judgement call.

It is right that a fantasy does nobody hurt, and that nobody can be punished only for the fantasies in his head. But sometimes some people try to live their fantasies, and the question is: can rape pics or movies or stories be a reason for the behaviour in the reality? Do they strenghten the wish to rape in real world?
I think they do. People tend to believe what they get told over and over and every day. This is happening to the normal people. And even more to psychos. And I guess a rape fantasy is exactly doing this. It doesn't show the pain of the victim, but how good it is to rape a woman.

some years ago some medcins and psychatrists discuss to give CP to pedos in jails and hospitals. The idea was, that if the pedos have something to masturbate, they would be satisfied and would not attack children. After some discussions and tests all specialists came to the same conclusion. The pics or movies of raped children would not calm down the monsters in the heads, but they would feed the monsters. And although I'm not a specialist, I think the same for rape fantasies.

Well... then we better get to all the video stores and start pulling Die Hard off the shelves, because people are gonna want to hijack corporate skyscrapers from watching it.

Come on.... you can't be serious.

Heinz, you're wrong. Real rapists are going to rape whether there are movie-rapes or websites showing fantasies. Normal people are not so easily deluded into criminal activity, and numerous studies have shown that long-term exposure to violent depictions has no harmful effects on "normal" people. One such study was conducted by the Canadian Government on Customs officers that, as part of their jobs, had to sit and review thousands of violent and horrific movies every week. This team of customs officers had to review all such materials coming across the borders into Canada from all over the world. The study proved conclusively to have no measurable negative effect on these people.

If someone's prone to committing real rape or any real crime, other studies have shown that having a fantasy outlet such as a website (which can also include a forum where other like-minded souls can commiserate) can actually be a preventative measure, since it is in fact an outlet. But there are other people that, although normal in their real lives, wish to indulge their fantasies privately on the net or with the movies they rent, and they should be allowed to do so.

Bottom line, who the fuck are we to tell the next person what they are allowed to think about?

Heinz, do you really believe that violence on TV causes normal people to then commit violence? That, my friend, is ludicrous. The only reason people blame TV violence for the real violence that occurs is because it's the easiest choice. The easy way isn't always the right way though.

Funny how for most people it's totally okay to watch REAL violence, death and horror unfold during the 6 o'clock news, even while the kids are watching it. YET, when we see a violent horror film or website showing extreme horror, the censorshit police are yelling for it to be removed. It's a really boned up world when real violence is accepted but fantasy play-acting is not.

Think about it.

They have pulled plans for releasing a Max Steel combat helicopter because of the attacks. Two movies have been postponed because of related scenes. So, yeah, pulling the Die Hard series may yet happen. I still don't see what the big deal is about a kid's toy helicopter.

Back to the subject...

i will have to go with those that think we should not support/link to/tolerate fantasy rape galleries.

i am not going to bother trying to rationalise it, or justify it. we could have a debate running to hundreds of posts, and no-one will change their minds, and my guess is, it will be reduced to the level of personal attacks.

i think rape is a monsterous crime, it damages people, and in some cases, that pain, and the problems for the victim it creates can affect their entire families, and it can echo down generations, spawning abuse, fear, etc. you get the point. ofcourse i am not saying it is always like that, just that it can go that way sometimes.

so, obviously with my point of view, i would not look kindly on fantasy rape content, and personaly, i would be happy if anyone who posts that kind of thing suddenly found that their computer had melted and they lost all of their data. ofcourse, thats assuming i'm feeling nice.

well, i don't think i rambled too much.
just had to throw in my views, sorry, it's not too PC.

------------------
Corvo.....

Key word here. No one is going fanatically ballistic... they're only postponed.

BING FUCKING O.

Hey, someone should go talking with a psychologist about fantasies. ALL fantasies are ok and we should not, and we cannot, tell other people what they're allowed to fantasize about.

There are perfectly normal people that could fantasize about a horse fucking him up the ass, yet he can have perfectly normal sex with his wife. That IS why it is called FANTASY, because it's not reality, you know. I think everyone has more or less extreme fantasies deep down inside.

As far as rape fantasy is concerned, IMO stories are ok, but not fake pics. What's the difference between fake and real? How many pornstars actually cry like pigs when they're making love for real. But they're doing it in the movie, so isn't it fake? By setting up a fake rape shoot you're doing the same thing but the difference is that rape is illegal.

So is killing people and stealing cars ...
We adore the big moviestars doing nothing but killing people on the screen (=fake).

I can imagine everyone has it's principles and you have to draw the line somewhere.
Where people draw that line is personal for me galleries with fake rape pics is on that line and I haven't decided yet if I will use that kind of content, I dont know if TGP's will list it anyway ...
In The Netherlands there is a law for e.g. fake guns or knives, if they look real enough, even though they are made in china from cheap plastic, they are as illegal as the real thing.

Maybe this is a consideration ... if it looks to real it's on the wrong side of the line ...

Maybe it's easier if I just stick to teen galleries ... or is this the beginning of a new discussion http://bbs.gofuckyourself.net/board/biggrin.gif

------------------
This is how i make money:

http://stats.adultrevenueservice.com/arsban.php?but1
TGSW - Fully Automated Thumbnail Gallery Builder & Submitter

We know that everything that happens in a movie is fake/fantasy. When I see a thumbnail gallery, how do I know if it's fake or not. Why take it any further, I think lolita word is already questionable
lolita=A seductive adolescent girl
and adolescent is minor

My 2 cents:

I've heard that both guys and girls fantasize about rape. Girls actually fantasize about being raped. I would think obviously by someone that they would want to have sex with and not some freak. I assume guys vice versa. But anyway... that's something to think about...

CD, I was writing about 2 groups of ppl: "normal" and "sick".
1. Even we normals can be manipulated. That's the reason why every dictator tries to controll all medias and all schools. If you tell the people often enough that humans with another skin color or another nose form are worthless shit and should be killed as soon as possible, than finaly you will have people who believe this shit.
And most of us are doing the same the whole day: we try to manipulate people to click on a link or to buy a product. That's the real thing in advertising: not information about a new product, but manipulation. An example for a successful manipulation are Pepsi and Coke. We all have seen the vids with people in a blind test: these people claimed that they can recognize Pepsi and Coke by the taste, they were 100% sure. But they could not in a blind test, because there are no differences in the taste.
2. And that is about "normal people". The discussions how free a human is in his decisions is one of the oldest of the world. But all parties in this discussion agree in one point: there are ppl who are not free.
One group are childrens, the others are addicts and psychos.
I was talking about psychos, they are abolutly not free. You can manipulate them intentinaly, but you can manipulate them by accidental too. And showing rape fantasies to a psycho is a manipulation, you create or you strenghten the wish for a real rape.
3. Something completly different are pornography and violence presented to normal ppl. In most cases, they create a kind of relieve. I remember some years ago, when I had a shit day and played two hours doom or quake: after 2000 killed monsters I was feeling better.
And I'm sure (I don't have seen a statistic about the following): a country where normal pornography is not allowed has more real rapes and attacks on women or childs or gays as a liberal country where pornography is allowed. And you know the countries where sex or nudity are a crime: these countries are the most violent countries at all (this has nothing to do with the islam, living under Savanorola or under the most catholic majestics in Spain was not funny at all).
4. And something completly different are these strange stories when conservatives politicans and mass medias and lawyers of murders are starting their campaigns against directors or producers because they dislike the politic ideas of these ppl. There are some more cases, but I can remember "natural born killers" and "friday the 13th". And here you are absolutly right, CD: it's nothing else but censorship and repressions.
5. And brainless, don't bother to reply if you didn't read the post you want to reply too.

There is a difference, and I can taste it. Pepsi makes me hurl. Coke is alot different and easily recognized over that other crap.

Also... have you noticed that in the Pepsi commercials, they are always comparing themselves to Coke. The REAL Thing baby. But in Coke's commercials... never is Pepsi so much as even mentioned. They don't need to compare themselves, because they know they got the real deal. Pepsi is nothin' more than an inferior Coke wannabe ripoff.

I have one fetish bit of content, which could be considered 'marginal'

so inside the pay member area, there is a few sentences describing the pics in no uncertain terms as a fantasy scenario

in any kind of bondage, sado, s & m scenes... there is a kind of consent and willing participation... this could definitely be depicted and described the 'wrong' way with a webmaster's text



------------------
$$ DIRTY GOLD $$ Revenue Program
JackThumbsTGP - - - VideoKAT-ViDeOpOsT
- Post Gallieries - - - - - - - Trade Traffic -

of course there's a difference, consuming both in large quantities will result in diabetic. I prefer coke.

All the good drinks are made with Coke. Rum 'n Coke, not Rum 'n Pepsi... Jack 'n Coke, not Jack 'n Pepsi... plus, ya just gotta love a product that started out with Cocaine as an ingredient. http://bbs.gofuckyourself.net/board/biggrin.gif

Farm Girls is a Silver cash site?

------------------
The All NEW www.PythonVideo.com Portal Page
Python
Dollar Machine
Naughty Mail Pay by click
Awesome Content


http://www.u-want.com/dollarmachine/stat.gif
The Statistician

Sorry... just ignore that... I was hammered & incoherent.

I don't post any Fake or real rape pics, It is disgusting. It exploits the people who have been raped. Why would anyone want to do that. It is FUCKING sick.
Now what would really be cool is too show a woman using her 3rd degree black belt on a attacker http://bbs.gofuckyourself.net/board/smile.gif Now that is exhilerating.


------------------
Hot Tropical Sex

It depends ... if it's real or if it's fake http://bbs.gofuckyourself.net/board/biggrin.gif


------------------
This is how i make money:

http://stats.adultrevenueservice.com/arsban.php?but1
TGSW - Fully Automated Thumbnail Gallery Builder & Submitter

I agree with you totally...

This must be your own opinion, because I've found nothing in the way of government or university studies to support this statement. It is unfounded.

You then go on to say exactly what I said earlier, you say that "normal" porn is an outlet, and you also say that violent video games are an outlet for your own aggressions. Tell me Hienz, who decides who is sick and who is normal? Do you really believe that allowing the "psychos" to look at your "normal" porn is going to be any better? Why do you think that fantasy sites would be any less of a harmless outlet for those that have such fantasies?

You still seem to be missing my point here. I agree that real rape is awful, and if I ever see it occuring, some dumb fuck is gonna get hurt on a grand scale. I agree that we all have the right to not post submitted galleries containing anything we don't like personally. But I disagree with descriminating against people's rights to have fantasies and indulge those fantasies through fantasy movies or websites. The fact is, there are literally thousands of these "dark fetish" and dark fantasy sites out there on the net flourishing right now, and they are getting traffic to them to the tune of 100's of thousands of hits per day. These extreme niche sites are getting members by the score (many of whom are women), and all of those people would say they have as much right to their space on the internet as you and your porn site. And I fully agree with it. The line is drawn where there is content involved that will hurt someone (hate crimes/inciting violence) or if the making of the content has hurt someone (CP, real rape etc).

Trying to rationalize a crackdown on fantasy is a waste of time. I can assure you Hienz, my government could tell me I should hate anyone non-Canadian, or I could watch thousands more violent movies (I've seen them all) and I still wouldn't be driven to commit any violent acts myself and I wouldn't hate anyone (except for maybe the punkass terrorists). How easily manipulated are you? I could visit and look at a million rape sites, but I'd be no more inclined to commit a real rape than I am now, which is not at all. I think that if I did have such fantasies, that I would be happy that I have a place to go where I can indulge my fantasy without hurting anyone though. I can dig up a link or two for papers and articles that suport this.
<font face="Verdana">___________
CD http://members.home.net/cyberdogs/An...cool_shine.gif
* <a href="http://www5.smutserver.com/babes/nudes/erotica/" TARGET="_blank"><font color="#FFDDFF"> Nightmares & Other Sex Fantasies</font></a> Original quality erotica & dark fantasy stories
* <a href="http://members.home.net/cyberdogs/Anti-Censorship%20Site/" TARGET="_blank"><font color="#FFFFDD"> Sites Against Censorship</font></a> Support something worthwhile, support your future!
* <a href="http://www.erasercash.com/wm.html?ID=1380291" TARGET="_blank"><font face="Verdana" color="#FFCCCC">ERASERCASH!</font></a> Earn $35 per sale + webmaster referrals 4 LEVELS DEEP</font>

[This message has been edited by CDSmith (edited 09-28-2001).]

My finger smells funny.

------------------
http://www.clickfeel.com/gfylogo.gif

First a short resume what the post was about: it was about the effect of rape fantasies to a certain group of people, not about the effect to me or to you. I call these ppl psychos, other people give them other names. These ppl have all prerequisites to become a sadistic murder. Often it is the simple case of good luck or bad luck what they will do: do they go home as usualy or do they start their first attack. There are at least 2 cases recorded with bad luck: the german serial murder and rapist Heinrich Pommerenke and the english vampire John George Haigh. Pommerenke saw a movie, and suddenly he knew that the women are the source of evil and that he had to punish and kill them (it was not a rape movie but the Ten Commandments http://bbs.gofuckyourself.net/board/smile.gif ). Haigh has his first vision of slaughtering and blood drinking - in a church. It happend in one moment to the next that they crossed the border. There are enough sickos around, and there is no need to give them the chance to cross the border.

Really ridicilous are the opinions about manipulations. That is exactly what most of us are doing. It never happend that a surfer entered your site with the clear idea: I need more informations about the best teen site for 29,95 with 70,000 pics and 100,000 vids. You or We are telling him that he needs this.
We manipulate and we get manipulated. But you can't manipulate a normal person as far as a child or a mental sick person. You can manipulate a child in every direction you want (it's called education), and if you find the button by a schizophrene you need only to click to manipulate in one direction (not in every). But you can't manipulate a normal adult in a completly different direction. You can not sell a teen site to a gay, you can not manipulate a police officer with a strong opposition to certain movies that the officer will try to realise these movies.

That is the point: normal vs sick. That's the point why the canadian study doesn't show negative effects - there are no effects for normal ppl. And that's the point why your outlet modell doesn't work. Normal porn has this effect for normal ppl: they calming down. Psychos don't calm down, they get no satisfaction, the pressure doesn't drop down but increases. And that's the point concerning violence in the news or in a movie: I don't masturbate when I see pics of the victims and I don't masturbate when I see Bruce Willis killing some criminals. And you don't do this too.

And there is another big misunderstanding: there are pornography and sex. And there is rape. And rape has nothing to do with sex. It's not a kind of sexuality with some aggressions, it's pure aggression without sexual lust.

And the bottom line is: if rape fantasy is ok, is kiddyporn fantasy ok too?

And the rest is bullshit. Plain and simple. Every dictatur trys to get all mass media and all education institutions, so they have the medium for hate speaches.It started with Goebbels and it didn't stop with Saddam or Khomeni.

And Mika and CoreDump: let me know when you will be 18, if I have time I will show you than what adult entertainment means.

And the truth about the great imperalistic Pepsi/Coca conspiration: tomorrow.

And before I write more sentences starting with "And": good night.

No, I covered this in my earlier posts, you must have missed it. Look for the section that talks about real harm vs. fantasy. But there again, I'd much rather have a few people fantasizing about CP, murder or rape than ACTUALLY DOING IT.

Don't bring up serial killers, it's a stupid nowhere aspect to the argument. And, if that one psycho says he took his cue to commit crimes against women from the movie "The Ten Commandments" should we then outlaw all biblical movies in case there are more such psychos lurking about?

How far should we "Clean up the net" in the name of preventing your "psychos" from seeing anything that might set them off? What about all the responsible people who just surf to enjoy and indulge their own private fantasies that are none of our fucking business? Should they all be denied because you are afraid of what MIGHT happen?

As Juge said, there are also many many women who have fantasies of rape under certain circumstances. I was very surprised to learn this from a group of women a few years back. They showed me magazine articles that had interviews with several dozen women from a cross-section of women from NY and Chicago, from store clerks to office managers, and the % was quite shocking actually.

Hienz, no one is or should be advocating rape or anything illegal. But the right to have fantasies is not for you or I to dictate. I don't see how anyone would want to argue this point, it only shoots yourself in the foot, but not everyone sees clearly enough to realize this.

<font face="Verdana">___________
CD http://members.home.net/cyberdogs/An...cool_shine.gif
* <a href="http://www5.smutserver.com/babes/nudes/erotica/" TARGET="_blank"><font color="#FFDDFF"> Nightmares & Other Sex Fantasies</font></a> Original quality erotica & dark fantasy stories
* <a href="http://members.home.net/cyberdogs/Anti-Censorship%20Site/" TARGET="_blank"><font color="#FFFFDD"> Sites Against Censorship</font></a> Support something worthwhile, support your future!
* <a href="http://www.erasercash.com/wm.html?ID=1380291" TARGET="_blank"><font face="Verdana" color="#FFCCCC">ERASERCASH!</font></a> Earn $35 per sale + webmaster referrals 4 LEVELS DEEP</font>

I don't know about that ... maybe you did some research on the serial killers and it gave you some ideas ...
Or worse ... you want me to be your girfriend http://bbs.gofuckyourself.net/board/biggrin.gif

CD,
you miss completly what my posts are about. I never talked about censorship or punishment for thoughts. You mixed up the "fantasy" part. I didn't wrote anything about a rape fantasy in your brain. Rape fantasy in this thread means: pics or movies with simulated rape. And the theme is still. what effects have rape pix or movies. I used the case of the TenCommandments as an example for that these people are like Nitroclycerine. A light vibration and the escalation of violence goes a step furher. And I still believe: if even such a movie can be the trigger, what will happen if one of them sees pix or movies?
This doesn't mean that everything that could work as a trigger for the psychos should
be prohibited. But rape pix or videos have only on function: they give the potential killer the feeling that rape, violence or lowering is ok. They don't work as an outleg but as an amplifyer for a small group. And that's the reason why I think that these files should be prohibited.

I disagree and it's that simple. And no, although it's hard to decipher some of your phrases and fragmented sentences, I see exactly what you are trying to say Heinz. I simply don't agree with you, and I have done extensive research on this subject over the past year, and so has my producer. If you take the time to read up on our own court case to do with the internet you'll see why I've taken the time to research this subject so thoroughly.

None of us including the prosecution side has any conclusive evidence to support what you are saying as true. It is your opinion only, it's that simple. And you have a right to that opinion, but you do not have a right to dictate to others what they can or can't fantasize about. Do you not understand this?

If a "psycho" as you call them are prone to violence or rape etc, no amount of websites or movies are going to make a bit of difference, they will do what they will do regardless, except in some cases where having their fantasies indulged innocuously will be enough to keep them happy and prevent them from doing harm.

There's no point in arguing further on this. The current laws here state that it is illegal to promote to incite real hate, real violence, or CP, and in some countries bestiality is illegal as well. I've found no law or internet law governing fantasy content. As it was said earlier, extreme bondage-with-sex galleries look an aweful lot like rape galleries too, it's in the way they are promoted, no more no less.

If we start stomping on every webmaster that has fantasy-only sites just because Heinz thinks it is bad, the what does that say about Heinz? What does that say about the rest of us holier-than-thou porn peddlers? Can we get over this and move on, and agree to disagree?

<font face="Verdana">___________
CD http://members.home.net/cyberdogs/An...cool_shine.gif
* <a href="http://www5.smutserver.com/babes/nudes/erotica/" TARGET="_blank"><font color="#FFDDFF"> Nightmares & Other Sex Fantasies</font></a> Original quality erotica & dark fantasy stories
* <a href="http://members.home.net/cyberdogs/Anti-Censorship%20Site/" TARGET="_blank"><font color="#FFFFDD"> Sites Against Censorship</font></a> Support something worthwhile, support your future!
* <a href="http://www.erasercash.com/wm.html?ID=1380291" TARGET="_blank"><font face="Verdana" color="#FFCCCC">ERASERCASH!</font></a> Earn $35 per sale + webmaster referrals 4 LEVELS DEEP</font>

Well....

Porn is porn.

No real people hurt? Then leave it. Everyone has a right for his fantasies. Or her. You'd be FUCKING amazed if You knew exactly how many women fantasise about rape and pay for it.

If You start prohibiting fantasies You'd only find someone will make money from it. Cause it has been always so. And I always thought noone likes places by the way where some thoughts are allowed and some not.

P.S.You doubt that there were no real people hurt?
Well doubt it better when You see a legal teen blowjob video from and unknown studio.

You're getting low, CD. It seems to hang around with Gary and AMP has rub off on you.

You can see this very often on boards and newsgroups: as soon as one part has no arguments, they are talking about spelling and grammar. It's really low. But if I find the time on monday, I will buy a new dictionary and I will forward your complains to altavista.

The next little trick: if you have no argument to a specific topic, talk about a completly different topic where you have some arguments.
I didn't post anything about the effects of rape files to normal ppl, but you ,CD, came with a study of the Canadian Government on Customs that has absolut nothing to do with the topic

Another favorite methode of people without arguments: what we write are the facts and we have done extensive research on this subject over the past year , but what you write is only your opinion. You started it with: "If someone's prone to committing real rape or any real crime, other studies have shown .....". And now I want to see these studies about your outlet theory. And remember the last paragraph: don't bother to come with studys about the reliefing effects for normal ppl or Bonobos. Name the studys about ppl with schizophrenia or another psychosis with a ruling aggresive component. And because you have done extensive research on this subject over the past year and you are now hanging around this board, I think 30 minutes are enough for some copy and paste. And don't forget the studies about the non-effects of TV: the last I heard was that there are some big companies spending millions of $$ to reach these effects. And I believe to remember that Bush and Gore spend most of their money for TV spots.

Because I didn't find your statement about kiddyporn fantasy files: Hot is it, CD? Photos of vids are bad, but drawings of kiddyporn are ok for you? Oops, what a silly question. I forgot that you are an expert in international laws. I'm sure you can post some criminal codes from different countries where I can read that drawings of kiddyporn are allowed.

Heinz, stop whining. You can't deny that it's difficult to understand some of your writings. "bonobos"??? What the hell is that?

I'd be more interested to see any official studies or proof to back up what you said in a few of your posts here. You are like the people that blame TV violence for the Columbine massacre. They had no solid evidence either, and neither do you. Why do you continue beating your point to death?

And my comments about the Canada customs study was not only relevant to this topic but extremely relevant, it addressed some comments made about the long-term effects of violent entertainment on normal people, but again I guess I'm being low if I say it seems you don't get it. I don't know about YOUR point, but MY point is that dark fetish fantasy content for the purposes of entertainment has no effect long-term on average people, and does in some cases provide an outlet for some people that are less than average in some ways. The other part of my point was that we can't and shouldn't be promoting more censorship, and that people's own fantasies should be their own, period. Again, I don't see what is so hard to figure out about this or why these valid points must be argued to death.

And incognita (bullfinch?), your first points are very good, but that last "PS" left me wondering something....
the problem with your thinking in that last point is that, in order to actually MAKE a real teen blowjob video, real teens had to be used, no? This is again confusing reality with fantasy. Same with CP, real kids had to be used at some point, or underage people had to be depicted. In adult fantasy, only adults are participating and it's about fantasy play-acting, nothing is real and no-one get's hurt by it. Anything less is likely illegal, as it should be.

Heinz -- you've now made 2 or 3 bold statements about what harm fantasy content does (not "might do", you said it does) to the extremely sick-minded population of the world. How about you show me the proof. Also, if we were to ban everything that might be bad for the sickos like it seems you're suggesting, we'd have to remove all chat rooms and message boards, all horror movie content, some people are set off by watching disney shit so out goes their site too. Where does it end?

what is it you want Heinz? What? I'm here speaking up for freedom of expression, but what is it exactly that YOU are promoting?

[This message has been edited by CDSmith (edited 09-29-2001).]

We should start burning books too. Oh wait... that's already been done.

Sometimes my calendar throws me into a fit of rage and makes me want to kill golfers. I hope they ban golf calendars soon so I can stop my uncontrollable urges.

------------------
DOING MY PART TO DEBRAINWASH BONEPRONE'S SHEEP.

[This message has been edited by Amputate Your Head (edited 09-29-2001).]

Hey Heinz, WTF do you mean? I was talking about fantasies, not adult entertainment. Don't you see a difference between psychology and adult porn business? Guess not, it's all about stats for you, right?

It's not even about legal or illegal..... it is a MORAL issue in my opinion. How can ANYONE make a call when looking at still pics whether it is real or not real unless as Rip says, there is a disclaimer on it that says exactly that it is fantasy?

I am sooo NOT a believer that watching violent movies makes one prone to violence either. I am raising 4 kids and they watch violence on TV, I don't censor alot of what they watch unless it is just downright filth. But be real folks, even the damn cartoons on Nick and Cartoon Network have violent scenes in them........ good grief!! If a person is prone to violence they are going to do it no matter what they see or hear anywhere. That's a well known fact as well. You CAN teach your kids that this is fake and they are just acting, but if you want to cut violence out of their lives then you must turn off the NEWS and the CARTOONS...... be real people. Rationalize it in YOUR heads so you may then rationalize it in theirs.

And I also believe that we do not get to choose what we fantasize about in all cases....... our thoughts are not always controllable, but how we REACT to those thoughts damn well are!!

I know I sound like I am contradicting myself on these points, but I am really not. It's all about how it is interpreted here...... if as Rip says, it is extreme fetish but he has a disclaimer that no one was hurt during the making of these pics...... then fine, knock yourself out. But let me hand you a bunch of poloroids of what APPEARS to you as rape or murder ........ are you going to ASSUME they are real or take for granted they are, or are you going to assume they are fakes? It's all in interpretation and how they are presented to you.

I won't post rape pics at ALL on my sites for the simple fact, I can't be the one to decide whether the pics YOU have sent me are real or not real........... see what I am saying? As a VICTIM of rape, had there been pics taken and they circulated, I would be horrified if I went to a site and seen someone was making money off my horror. Rape does alot of damage, as someone else said in another post here, and it is a horror that does NOT go away...... so I will not be promoting these types of pics in any way. Seeing what APPEARS to be rape pics to me brings back more than I even care to think about, much less bring into words, so it is a personal, a VERY personal issue on my part.

I hope I have cleared myself up on some level....... fantasies are fine......... but when you want me to decide whether ths is your fantasy or whether someone actually got hurt, well I just can't do that and sleep at night.

Tam

------------------
May the Force Be With YOU!!
Up to $0.90 a minute!!Also taking broker apps!
You too can be Vectorized!!

Exactly what Tam said!

I must admit I find it interesting that all of the women that have posted at any length in this post have come out strongly against posting such galleries.

From some of the men we get responses like 'well women have rape fantasies'.

oh..and before anyone jumps of me. I am not a feminist..I am a sociologist.

There are so many conflicting studies (I have had to read many of them because of my degree) about wether rapists (or pedos for that matter) are encouraged by the images they see or what they read. So, for anyone to make a definative statement about such a subject is foolish and unstudied.

I will stay on the side of caution.

------------------
Sjayne's Quality Porn Links - Have Free Sites? Submit them to my new link list.
XPhotography - Incredible Low Cost Content Source for Adult Webmasters!
Candid Clicks - Simply the best blind links sponsor I have ever used. They will even pay into your PayPal account if you want!

Felt that I should explain my previous "P.S."
http://bbs.gofuckyourself.net/board/biggrin.gif

Most here I think assume that if the pic is a fantasy and not real and was performed by actors than fine - no problem...But some do also ask how can You be sure that there was no rape there even if it is said so.

What I meant is that You probably cant. But You cant be sure in regular porn that noone was hurt either. Anyone can be raped, drugged and it's pics sold as regular teen fuck for example. In the end unless You were there when the content was filmed You can never be sure in anything.

Also bear in mind that it is extremely difficult to protect ON PUBLIC something like Rape Fantasy and though I guess most of people who ever thought about the subject will agree that there's no harm in such a fantasy performed by actors, just as I said - porn is porn, still it takes a greater man to say it out loud.

Just my point of view. Sorry for english.




[This message has been edited by Incognito (edited 09-29-2001).]

And again I remind you that my point was not about the choice of posting or not posting galleries, that's everyone's own judgement call. I only took issue with the fact that some people are too quick to advocate censorship when all we are really dealing with are someone's own fantasies. That's all.

It's not something I think anyone should be arguing about either, because any right-thinking person knows that real rape/violence and the promotion of it is wrong period. That includes posting content on your tgp's that you don't like. Don't do it, it's as simple as that, and I agree fully. It's about the right for others to share their fantasies online, and there are many sites that say right on their warning pages that what the surfer is about to see is fantasy and NOT real, and involves consenting adults and NOT children. Those sites should be allowed to exist, and I take strong issue with anyone yelling for the censorshit police to come down on them. Freedom of expression online must be for everyone, not just what you or I think is right.

You ladies make some very excellent points. I can definitely see where being a victim of rape would make one tense up even if the movie scene or website is fantasy-only. But I too wince and tense up when I see certain scenes or images that trigger memories from my own past troubles. The similarity is that we don't try to eradicate all sites or movies that make us uncomfortable, we simply exercise our right to not view them, whereas others seem to want to enforce their opinions on the entire human race.

There will always be material in movies and on the net that we don't like or have no interest in. But if it's presented properly and responsibly then it is legal, and I'll defend it's right to exist even though I may not like it myself. It's called freedom, and it must apply to all or none.

<font face="Verdana">___________
CD http://members.home.net/cyberdogs/An...cool_shine.gif
* <a href="http://www5.smutserver.com/babes/nudes/erotica/" TARGET="_blank"><font color="#FFDDFF"> Nightmares & Other Sex Fantasies</font></a> Original quality erotica & dark fantasy stories
* <a href="http://members.home.net/cyberdogs/Anti-Censorship%20Site/" TARGET="_blank"><font color="#FFFFDD"> Sites Against Censorship</font></a> Support something worthwhile, support your future!
* <a href="http://www.erasercash.com/wm.html?ID=1380291" TARGET="_blank"><font face="Verdana" color="#FFCCCC">ERASERCASH!</font></a> Earn $35 per sale + webmaster referrals 4 LEVELS DEEP</font>

[This message has been edited by CDSmith (edited 09-29-2001).]

Ugh! Pornographers with MORALs.....

Rape FANTASY is just that....fantasy...
the crime of rape is about power, not sex...

women's rape fantasies aren't so much about being raped rather than being overpowered...a good friend of mine (female) once said she preferred to call them "ravishment fantasies"

A lot of what is being talked about here is personal taste. I saw a post sauying "if there's blood, it's out" well, I guess there goes my vampire galleries and bloodletting galleries... ;) Bloodletting is a consensual form of sex play...does that mean it shouldn't be allowed on a website? It's just as consensual as tying some chick up and smacking her with a bit of leather....I have friends who are into bloodplay, should they not be allowed to participate in their LEGAL fantasy because some self righteous webmaster/webmistress says is shouldn't be allowed...well, you know what...I find pissing sites putrid, maybe we should ban them? I get sickened by ugly chicks..maybe we should ban all sites who feature anything but the loveliest of porn supermodels?

Stop confusing your personal morality with legality...kp? it's illegal...bestiality? technically not illegal (depends upon your jurisdiction)....rape fantasy? perfectly legal...my PERSONAL morals reside within what's legal...I'm not in this business to look at porn or jerk off...I'm here to make money...if it's legal, I'm going to attempt to make money off it...if it's a niche that truly sickens me like pissing sites..I simply don't promote them, but I'm sure as hell not going to get on a high horse and start preacing to others what to do...remember, we're in the PORN business...what we do is casue for death in some countries...so, why don't some of you "holy porners" go over to Saudi Arabia and tell them what you do? Especially the women...

the reason I don't have any rape fantasy sites/galleries? those TOS of some programs...TOS I pay attention to....

As for the webmistress who lets her children just sit and watch violent programming...are you aware of a study that showed that young children who are exposed to violent images tend to be more aggressive with playmates?

Oh well, have fun kids and be nice before someone loses an eye....