stocktrader23

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stocktrader23

The State of Florida, for example, publishes a county-by-county record of votes cast and people registered to vote by party affiliation. Net denizen Kathy Dopp compiled the official state information into a table, available at http://ustogether.org/Florida_Election.htm, and noticed something startling.

While the heavily scrutinized touch-screen voting machines seemed to produce results in which the registered Democrat/Republican ratios matched the Kerry/Bush vote, and so did the optically-scanned paper ballots in the larger counties, in Florida's smaller counties the results from the optically scanned paper ballots - fed into a central tabulator PC and thus vulnerable to hacking - seem to have been reversed.

In Baker County, for example, with 12,887 registered voters, 69.3% of them Democrats and 24.3% of them Republicans, the vote was only 2,180 for Kerry and 7,738 for Bush, the opposite of what is seen everywhere else in the country where registered Democrats largely voted for Kerry.

In Dixie County, with 4,988 registered voters, 77.5% of them Democrats and a mere 15% registered as Republicans, only 1,959 people voted for Kerry, but 4,433 voted for Bush.

The pattern repeats over and over again - but only in the smaller counties where, it was probably assumed, the small voter numbers wouldn't be much noticed. Franklin County, 77.3% registered Democrats, went 58.5% for Bush. Holmes County, 72.7% registered Democrats, went 77.25% for Bush.

Yet in the larger counties, where such anomalies would be more obvious to the news media, high percentages of registered Democrats equaled high percentages of votes for Kerry.

More visual analysis of the results can be seen at http://ustogether.org/election04/FloridaDataStats.htm, and www.rubberbug.com/temp/Florida2004chart.htm

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wedouglas

Michael moore is a penis

JamesK2

who cares we're all gonna die anyway

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stocktrader23

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StuartD

and to think that we complain when a sponsor shaves.

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the_wizz

Can't people just get over the fact that bush won and get on with their lives??

In four years, we'll pick another retard who will fuck up the country just as much,

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extreme

Exit polls being wrong is almost unheard of after all...

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crockett

I wouldn't doubt it.. I live in one of the very few counties in Florida that Kerry won.. But I'm still to this day amazed that Bush won this state. I talked to a lot of people and they all voted for Kerry yet seems all the people I talked to were the selective few? yea right.

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TheSquealer

anyone that starts a conversation by saying "Michael Moore says..." should be stabbed in the face and fed to sewer rats.

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Dalai lama

bush lover

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stocktrader23

Hey dumbass, the links are on his site but I've already read them 2 days ago. He just summed up the dozen articles on this bullshit in one page.

Get your head out of your ass and read something.

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Dalai lama

Everyone wanted Kerry ( in Europe )

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nastyking

michael moore tells a lot of stuff

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Fake Nick

there is no doubt in my mind this election was rigged...

ronaldo

Anyone who has seen my posts about Moore, know my feelings toward him.

On THAT note, I will say that I watched CNN's election coverage from start to near finish (Larry King looked like hell, by the time it was over), and Wolf Blitzer did mention on more than one occasion that he couldn't believe how far off the exit polls were.

Again, Moore has done his job. Stops to make you think.

Now, find some other sources and I'll take it more seriously.

ytcracker

well, this is how i see it.

there was a story i heard as a little kid called "the boy who cried wolf."

if michael moore wants to be taken seriously, he needs to avoid his sensationalist attitude and media whore status to make a real difference. as it stands, his credibility falls under serious scrutiny whenever he opens his fat mouth - unless it is to shove a big mac down his throat (which is highly believeable).

fuck you, you fat pig.

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stocktrader23

They aren't his sources. The only one I'm not sure about is the guy that is "waiting on the FBI". The other articles about a certain type of machine being completely backwards on Bush and Kerry votes vs registered in FL and the other stuff I had read before he ever posted about it.

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codymc12

The 'mainstream media' not picking this up is not a part of a conspiracy, btw. They're simply not going to do so until some incontravertible hard evidence comes up supporting it.

In such a divided country, where those upset by a Bush win jump so readily at voter fraud, and Bush supporters call even a suspicion of it 'tin foil hatting', they really have no choice.

I'll bet there are some Woodward-Bernstein types looking into it, though. I'm personally reserving judgement on this, but it will be interesting to see how it shakes out.

xclusive

This election was rigged big time...

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stocktrader23

Agreed. However, any suspicion of voter fraud in either direction should be looked into immediately and openly. Everyone wants to blow off important stuff about our election like it's no big deal wich is shit.

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Ad3pt

I think your brain was hacked.

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Paul Markham

Not one of Moores critics has come up with a single reason not to believe him. Is this becasue they can only attack the messenger not the message.

If Moore is wrong show us where he's wrong. Go to the statistics and point out where Moore is wrong.

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codymc12

I agree wholeheartedly. I'm guessing some people are doing serious digging behind the scenes, and we'll see what comes of it.

I really doubt this will slow down. It's another indicator that the statement of 'having a mandate' is erroneous. This is a country split down the middle. No mandate there.

ronaldo

Yes, I understand this.

First off however, it was Michael Moore who brought this to MY attention. Yours? I'm not sure, but that's the first link you posted.

That's why I said he did his job, made us think. Myself at least.

Now, as for other sources? Like stated above, when the mainstream news starts mentioning it, I'll look at it more seriously.

This is obviously a serious accusation, so if it has ANY truth to it whatsoever, someone IS looking into it and we'll hear more about it.

GonZo

Ask Confucy and she will tell you that Kevin Mitnick socially engineered the election!

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Dildozer

You idiots saying get over it, in 4 years blah blah blah need to think for a moment.

If the election was rigged with such machines to favor the ones in power, what makes you think they'll change the way people vote next time? It'll still be the flawed way which people vote this year.

I mean after all the machines were made by a severly biased party, and there's no paper way to trace if the machines are flawed or not.

Anyone denying the possibility of foul play should be shot in the face with a shotgun for being an idiot and plaguing the evolutionary process with such bad genes.
Die.

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Doctor Dre

Lots of people are hating on him ... but if everybody wait till there is evidence, we might wait for years

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Harmon

They just told you they voted for Kerry to shut you up

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Rinaldo

when are all the terrorist attacks goign to begin?

EscortBiz

the question is say its rigged can we do anything about it?

Doesnt look like we are getting rid of the machines any time soon

Doesnt look like we will recall this election

etc. etc.

What are the chances of things changing? Yes we can protest in america but when was the last time a protest changed anything serious, we can write letters but we know what happens with those.

Kinda like UFO's even its its true nothing we can do about it.

If there is something that can be done lets hear what, and dont say protest or write a letter we know thats shit.

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Harmon

I also find it rather amusing that some of the same people involved with this thread are the same people that did nothing but complain that the "redneck Floridians from the South" were going to fuck this election up too by not being able to tally votes properly as they did in 2000.

Now all of a sudden it's a hack? It's called whining over losing, and Michael Moore is the largest perpetrator of the crime (Litterally)

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mardigras

Anyone who thinks voting machines with no paper trail or method of recount is OK should suffer a similar fate

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loverboy

don't expect terrorist to give such confidential information that easily

warnings of attacks to happen has been issued by Bin Laden even before Bush won his relection

stocktrader23

There's nothing to recount this time. Have you looked at any of the info at all? When you can edit the results of thousands of machines by browsing to a folder on your harddrive and changing the numbers I see a major problem regardless if they were tampered with this time or not.

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codymc12

Take a look at Nixon. He was taken down, essentially, by good investigative journalism. But it took years.

If true voter fraud occurred here (and I'm not saying one way or the other), I'd expect it to take a few years to uncover in an incontravertible way. But yeah, if hard evidence was uncovered, something would definately be done about it. The problem isn't whether America takes action on proven voter fraud,the problem is proving it.

It's not going away, though, that I'll guarantee you. I was reading that blackboxvoting.org site - that lady isn't messing around. FOIA requests, etc.

And being that having a 'mandate' is pure political spin not borne out by factual statistics, and the nation is split down the middle, I really don't think anyone is going to let it die. Particularly if they smell a story.

Bigwilly

do you guys seriously think that if the election was rigged or whatever that the hundrets of lawyers workin for the democrats wouldnt have picked up on it? I wouldnt take anything michale moore has to say serioulsy, i cant bring myself to respect a fat man.

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Harmon

Yes I read the info. I never said it was impossible. I have never, EVER believed in the idea of electronic voting. I for one know how easily that anything electronically engineered can be reengineered with a little thought and time.

They would have been better off punching holes in paper

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stocktrader23

What exactly does having a mandate mean politically?

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codymc12

I don't make decisions about the future of my nation based on people's weight.

I'm not saying it was rigged. But it's a good indication that democracy still exists if people can raise the question.

EscortBiz

well hard to fight when the person you are fighting for says dont fight

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codymc12

Well, since the definition of political mandate is "a command or authorization given by political electorate to it's representative" I'd imagine that the pragmatic sense of it would be that it would give you the ability to push your legislation through your opposition, as they, wanting re-election, would be worried about alienating their own voters.

It creates a sense of 'political capital' (to quote Bush). Democrats who might oppose certain things more strongly on the part of the administration may think twice, as they may be worried that their base will vote them out the next time.

That's why Rove jumped on it so hard with his spin machine. There is no mandate, based on the numbers - but they definately want to create the sense of one. It's all about spin. I mean, look at the exit polls - Rove says they were wrong about the vote, but right about moral values?

They want Democrats running scared on the moral values issue, to say 'The public has spoken'. When factually, this is observable statistical propoganda. Nearly half the voters, apparently, don't agree.

Minte

Sure I believe Michael Moore..

After paying off the army of lawyers watching..the nasty republicans paid off Senator Kerry to just concede.That's exactly how it happened!

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codymc12

Moore didn't state it. He linked to it.

The real point though, is not whether the election was or was not rigged, for now. It's that blind nationalism without inspection is the death of Democracy.

A democracy that doesn't thoroughly investigate ANY allegation of voter fraud, is a democracy on it's way out.

The entire point of the FOIA (Freedom of Information Act) - and it's been proven by things the FOIA has uncovered - is that an uninspected government simply can't be trusted.

If you think the point of a Democracy is to GIVE power to elected officials, you misunderstand the concept at it's core. Functionally, it's there to LIMIT the power of elected officials.

seeric

THIS JUST IN

Incumbent President GW Bush has just confirmed that they cannot lie, re-write the law, or trick the people into believing that they can fiddle with the Nov 2, 2008 election. Regretfully we must inform you that Jeb Bush will be starting his Presidency in January 2009.

tony286

it probably happened but Kerry had no balls.

Fletch XXX

will anything happen?

doubt it.

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sacX

Well nearly all the counties that have large bases of registered democrats that they're talking about in this article have actually voted Republican for quite some time (at least they did in 2000).

reynold

Michael Moore says the vote was hacked. now he tells us.